TheCourier- Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Almost every other WZ has 3-4 healers, and tanks are nowhere near as rare as they used to be. The result is a significant amount of WZs are stalemating. The PTS had this issue, and the issue has carried over to live servers. Hypothetical scenario: Team A: Operative healer, 2 sorc healers, 1 merc healer, 2 PT tanks, and 2 sorc DPS (not at all a rare team comp) Team B: 2 vanguard DPS, 1 guardian DPS, 1 Sage DPS, 2 sage heals, 1 guardian tank, 1 vanguard tank This scenario would be a complete stalemate, unless one of the team's healers were super awful. The arguments "well, l2p and DPS more" or "burst more and quit dot fluffing" don't work. If the tanks actively guard swap, it is nearly impossible to burst someone down fast. Note, team B actually only has 2 healers. If team B had 4 healers, the WZ would stalemate even more than it would already. One of 2 things needs to happen: 1. The sorc heals buffs of patch 3.3 need to be reverted (roaming mend hitting for 5k+ per bounce non-crit is ridiculous) 2. Trauma needs to be increased by 10% I'm tired of every other WZ being a stalemate, because healing classes are so much stronger than DPS classes. No DPS spec can do 4k+ DPS consistently, and 3k HPS is far more common than 3k DPS. Edited July 30, 2015 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janglor Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If you have 4 competent DPS who focus together, you can still burn them. It takes a long time, but its doable. This is why its important to bring your own premade to school kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royhenderson Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A team with multiple healers is like any other team. You simply focus down with good dps. Look at HP, thats a pretty good indication which one has full pvp gear. Focus that one first the go to the next one, the "freaK out" that one that uses a defensive cooldown on your weakest attack....usually scoundrels....focus them next... I've been on team where 4 healers is almost unbeatable and on teams where 4 healers meant nothing because opposition dps was so high we got owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) If you have 4 competent DPS who focus together, you can still burn them. It takes a long time, but its doable. This is why its important to bring your own premade to school kids. a team with 2 heals and 2 tanks or 3 heals and 1 tank (who's not completely retarded) are going to make those 4 competent dps look incompetent. of course, there are still 4 other players on each team. but focus in regs is asking a whole lot in my experience...especially if there are 3 potential focus targets. Edited July 31, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 No, f+++ that. I will not be forced to premade. Then why are you playing an MMO? Let a lone participating in a format that is purely team based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xShingo Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Even though OP has a valid point, a bunch of apologists are going to come in saying GET GUD or if you focus all your dps on one person you guys will do it.. While you focus all your efforts chaining interrupts and stuns and the healer keeps getting healed back to full.. their back row of dps is blowing you up. Leading for either you getting healed into a stalemate or YOU getting blown up. Healers are way too strong right now and if they are guarded forget about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stummt Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 You want to nerf healers, because if their are four of them in a team, you can't kill an enemy? That's not logical. If half of the enemy team are healers + tanks/taunt-dds, for me it is ok that it is hard to kill anyone, because it is a defensive composition. At the moment we imho have two factors leading to stalemates 1) very strong healers 2) high numbers of healers. If you weaken the healers too much probably less people would play healers (outside of ranked and premade), with less heals you will have less tanks (no need to guard dps, so switch to dps yourself) and only dps will remain. Then people will complain about burst classes ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBono Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Here are my 2 cents probably worth like 1.25 cents in today market. I think DPS as a whole should receive a bit of a buff and here is why. HPS is automatic and going to hit their intended target (unless they get interrupted, held what have you). DPS on the other hand (in particular burst) is relatively easy to mess up (invis, holds, interrupts, stunns, immobilize, kite, operative roll, force sprint, harpoon, a butterfly, a stiff breeze, a flashy outfit whatever really) and negate that massive would be damage. Dots are on you haha sucker now you will pay.....cleansed ah no more paying for you. (I am not 100% certain how dots work and how they feel when the sorc cleasnses it so dont get your panties in a bunch). So basically HPS is easier then DPS. Now all that said and back to my original point, buff the damage being done so that the few that do hit will actually matter and not be a complete waste of a GCD. We will no longer have these long drawn out matches where no one dies and no one wins but the DEVS who all secretly hate us and love watching us fight on the forums and such. Im sure someone will get on here and say l2p and "if you all focus on one player it is easy" which is absurd to even have to address such a flawed way of thinking. Notice all i said was buff dps that includes you ranged guys and melee and whoever does DAMAGE. I did not call for a nerf healers or nerf operatives roll........all though that last one i mean come on it needs it. Just make them able to roll twice and burn up all their power. HEHE that last one was just because i like to troll. Edited July 31, 2015 by TJBono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekkma Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 One of 2 things needs to happen: 1. The sorc heals buffs of patch 3.3 need to be reverted (roaming mend hitting for 5k+ per bounce non-crit is ridiculous) 2. Trauma needs to be increased by 10% Blanket changes only work if all affected classes are balanced, i.e. it never works. Increasing trauma would just make merc/mando even weaker, possibly broken. Better option than a straight nerf to healing is: 1. Tone down burst dmg. 2. Damage dealers: remove taunt, nerf defensive cooldowns, remove most off healing. In a game with trinity, tanks and healers should provide this for the damage dealers. Promote teamplay and abandon the "jack of all trades but still master of some" approach that plauge this game. 3. Adjust healing if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Double sorc double tank teams are ridiculous right now, and they're all over the place. Everyone sees the problem in the room and it's sorc heals pulling 2-3 million scores without breaking a *********** sweat. PVP is broken right now, badly. Everyone can see it even if they can't identify the exact problem (sorc heals, op heals). The devs are halfwit morons, and the designers are stubborn idiots. Bioware please fire Modny and Jarynowski now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Better option than a straight nerf to healing is: 1. Tone down burst dmg. 2. Damage dealers: remove taunt, nerf defensive cooldowns, remove most off healing. In a game with trinity, tanks and healers should provide this for the damage dealers. Promote teamplay and abandon the "jack of all trades but still master of some" approach that plauge this game. 3. Adjust healing if needed. The game will become as boring as WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekkma Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The game will become as boring as WoW. Granted, I have not played wow since 2008, but I don't see how this would bring the game closer to WoW. My suggestions would strengthen the different archtypes (is tanks a thing in wow pvp? didn't really exist when i played it). If anything it would bring the game closer to Warhammer, not wow. Anyway, you don't need to worry as this game is designed for solo play and the next expansion probably will add a couple of more tools to every class, further diminishing the role of archetypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Blanket changes only work if all affected classes are balanced, i.e. it never works. Increasing trauma would just make merc/mando even weaker, possibly broken. Better option than a straight nerf to healing is: 1. Tone down burst dmg. 2. Damage dealers: remove taunt, nerf defensive cooldowns, remove most off healing. In a game with trinity, tanks and healers should provide this for the damage dealers. Promote teamplay and abandon the "jack of all trades but still master of some" approach that plauge this game. 3. Adjust healing if needed. Merc / mando healers are already pretty much broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I've been in a few 4 v 4 matches with three healers and one DPS. This design is almost unstoppable especially if the other team is all DPS. You just focus on healing whoever the initial target is while ensuring your one DPS is being kept alive. Your DPS can then wear down each of the opposing players one at a time. If the three healers aren't in sync and your DPS player gets killed though, it is game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I've said it before but for all the good it will do: when the existence of too many of one archetype (healers) makes the game impossible to win vs barring sudden death mechanics, it's time to nerf gunnery commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Then why are you playing an MMO? Let a lone participating in a format that is purely team based? You mean playing an MMO is about nothing but being in an Premade ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannotDeny Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 If you have 4 competent DPS who focus together, you can still burn them. It takes a long time, but its doable. This is why its important to bring your own premade to school kids. ********. I just rage quit a match where there were 4 healers. You cannot "burn" anything down when there's so much green numbers flying by. This entire argument of "WELL JUST GET 4 WELL COORDINATED DPS" in a random warzone match must be a joke. You're not even guaranteed 4 dps, and assuming you do there will be no coordination without a voice chat. "Get the healers!" "But there's 4 marked ones..." We did focus on one but they wouldn't die since there's like 2 or 3 other healers just laughing and healing him without an issue. *********** hate this stupid game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giliodor Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 The fact that you can't kill anything with four healers on the enemy team doesn't mean healers are OP, it means matchmaking is broken (or doesn't exist, rather). If there was a max of two healers one tank, all would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannotDeny Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 The fact that you can't kill anything with four healers on the enemy team doesn't mean healers are OP, it means matchmaking is broken (or doesn't exist, rather). If there was a max of two healers one tank, all would be fine. You have a point but it's still really aggravating. I can't help but rage hard when that happens, and hate on healers. I will always hate on guarded healers regardless if it's just 1, because that means it takes at minimum 4 dps instead of 2 to down it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Mcturney Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) ..... Edited December 18, 2015 by James_Mcturney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Mcturney Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) If you have 4 competent DPS who focus together, you can still burn them. It takes a long time, but its doable. This is why its important to bring your own premade to school kids. Nice, a shame that one of my great friends who loves merc and loves merc heals left the game because of this BS, the most unbalanced BS i ever saw in my entire gaming life (more than half of my life ;p and ive played atari/mega drive/etc, i know BS in gaming when i see one). Sages must be nerfed while merc gets lots of buffs (survivability/mobility/cast interruption resistance), so he can try to spec in heals and be competitive.... same thing for operatives, although i'm not familiar with the spec. Blanket changes only work if all affected classes are balanced, i.e. it never works. Increasing trauma would just make merc/mando even weaker, possibly broken. Better option than a straight nerf to healing is: 1. Tone down burst dmg. 2. Damage dealers: remove taunt, nerf defensive cooldowns, remove most off healing. In a game with trinity, tanks and healers should provide this for the damage dealers. Promote teamplay and abandon the "jack of all trades but still master of some" approach that plauge this game. 3. Adjust healing if needed. Then ALL DPS SPECS WILL NOT BE PLAYED IN PVP anymore. Only tanks + heals ftw, with 2 dps per match. hahahah, actually, Pvp will be a combination of No one + No one Vs Nobody, cause no one will take that bs called "pvp" in this game anymore. ahh srry for double post O.o i'm sleepy. Edited December 18, 2015 by James_Mcturney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Mcturney Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) ..... why i cant remove posts =/ Edited December 18, 2015 by James_Mcturney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 debating whether to comment on the necro...or the continuing relevance of the OP..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempMentive Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 When DPSing, I absolutely LIVE for games with 4 healers on both sides! Instant e-bone engaged... Oh em gee, the numbers galore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) When DPSing, I absolutely LIVE for games with 4 healers on both sides! Instant e-bone engaged... Oh em gee, the numbers galore! Only so many times I can *** over numbers before I need some hardcore, exotic stuff. F. A. P. Has finally arrived in recognition of being a bad word. Edited December 18, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts