Hello I am a returning player (left when level 65 was max) and am looking for an active Aussie guild here on SF that runs ops. I'm interested in ops and would like to get back into PVP as well (tho the latency might be awful for that). Thanks!

I hear you. I feel the same. I really, really, really hoped BW would pull a Houdini and make 5.0 awesome. But I simply refuse to do the content I have been doing since launch again. The RNG is secondary to the fact that outside of maybe (just maybe) the Uprisings, there is no genuinely new MMO content. Not even daily areas? Why did we not have a 4.0 daily area in Zakuul? Its mind-boggling. Sadly, for the folks I play with, I doubt a new op would bring us back. We'd need a Legion-sized 6.0 with genuinely new content to do that.

CONFIRMED! 6.0 content.

Which ... isn't that what these DvL 'world bosses' sound like? So, I share the same suspicion as you. Same for PVP. If there isn't anyone doing it, they don't have to even try to balance it anymore.

I think you are right. It was you I was thinking of when I said, 'lends credence to the idea that ...' HM+ raiders will have to hit 70 and then start grinding out SM ops to get their CXP up just to get back to the content they enjoy. The PVP-only crowd remains the hardest hurt. That's a crowd that BWA really has put the screws to for the last five years.

Yep. I suspect it will just be even more SOP for PUGs tho. Bloody sad. SWTOR may have had super slow ops releases and far too many released bugged as hell (Soa to start, ToS to end), but they were fun. For the most part they did give a feel to the game. I enjoyed EC, for example. It was different. Not many people going to see it now, I bet.

Small nit to pick on wording. GC isn't tied to endgame - it *is* the endgame now. I sure hope so. For the sake of those staying. The problem with such extreme hand-holding by Bioware is the curve will just be that much steeper for these people if they ever step outside the kiddie pool.

True point. Ironic, GC is meant to force old content to stay relevant but everything but the fastest and/or easiest of it will get ignored in the zerg. Which really means, in effect, you'll have less to do with GC if you do not have a self-supported guild or group of regular friends who will do all content. If you rely on PUG ops to get that CXP, its going to be KP and EV for you.

Da what? So ... a SM group goes in with 7 70's and 1 65. The 65 will get gear drops off the bosses but the 70s won't? This system is a bigger mess with every post. So the 'its too hard to gear yourself' gear will still drop for 65-69, but the hand-held gear will accrue once you hit 70? What about that poor sap who hit 70 two-thirds of the way through the op? Does this mean that the pre-70 gear is higher than 224? If so, then that means they have bothered to itemise 5.0 gear for drops. If not, then it leads credence to the idea that HM+ raiders will need to grind out SM and CXP before they get back to their HM+ content. Ridiculous.

I'd say the game is geared to people who haven't been here since launch. GC is a new metawrapper for all the old content. No different than Alliance was or DvL now. The only difference is that it now includes how you will get loot. I think too many people are focused on the RNG or the impact on preferred players. The issue is far more structural to Bioware Austin. We haven't had any substantive MMO content since SoR. Which means, we haven't had any substantial MMO content since 3.0 that wasn't done to some degree of completion by the launch team. DF, DP, S&V, EC, Section X, BH, Makeb, etc., were all done (or at least substantively done) by the launch team. In two years, outside of the KOTFE chapters (and let's be honest, we'll say reviews are mixed), all we have had by the present team is Ravagers, ToS, and the SOR preludes. If you want to be more generous, the SFs and EC since they can be done in a group. Really, IMO, its the HM+ level raiders who are hellbent to remain and the PVP-only crowd that is truly hosed by the RNG. Everyone else, does it really matter? Our god-bot companions make anything outside a HM FP trivial. One week or three months to gear up? So what! Frankly, it doesn't matter since you'll still just be doing Face Merchants on Coruscant. The shame isn't that GC hides endgame gear behind an RNG grind. The shame is that we will be paying Bioware Austin for the privilege of doing 5 year old content for endgame gear hidden behind an RNG grind. EDIT: for the inevitable, but Uprisings! and but Jan 2017! crowd. Until it is in, live and 'bug free' WAI, its vapour-ware. I don't believe for a second that Uprisings will be anything more than SFs. And 'we want to return to' group content, AKA the Jan 2017 announcement, doesn't mean anything more than they *want* to return to group content. EDIT: credit for GSF, I believe, goes to the original team as well. Rishi and OPG to the new team.

Thanks. I'm really just adding in my two cents, hopefully without coming off as too salty, so that Eric's intern flunky (assuming he has one) can add my voice to the metric of 'not happy for more than just RNG.' I wanted to stay. Lightsabers and blasters, man! I gave 4.0 as a pass to Bioware. But, unfortunately, they do not seem to be able to produce the content I want.

That's cool. I wish everyone staying the best. I had a great time in this game from 1.0 - 3.0. But I am not willing to continue to do all that old content again as endgame. But I and those I enjoy playing with are done. Even if Bioware could put out an op in 2017, I genuinely think it is too little, too late.

That'll be great, then. Frankly, I don't think they will. I don't think they have the capacity to do so. Ultimately, even if they do, I think its far too late. The 'MMO equals group content crowd' is gone, leaving or too many of those that remain will be leaving. And my opinion would still stand: GC is just a meta wrapper for old content.

GC screams, 'we no longer have capacity to make new group content.' GC is Alliance in 5.0. It is a meta to cover the fact that Bioware expects you to do Face Merchants as endgame.

You are right. It won't get changed. But it isn't because of RNG or people unhappy about RNG. GC isn't about loot. In form it is, yeah. But that isn't its function. It serves no other purpose than to be the wrapper for old content. GC is Alliance in 5.0. They cannot get rid of GC because they do not have any new content.

The answer would be different if there was a new op. A new op, yeah, I bet a good percentage wouldn't mind having to redo SM first to gear for HM+. But since we are talking about HM+ teams already doing old ops ... why should they have to redo so much just to go right back to where they were? EDIT: Do not forget how shafted PvP-only players are. Those poor bastards have to completely start afresh.

This is *exactly* the problem. The RNG in the GC crates was the icing on the cake. 9 chapters and a couple uprisings (which may or may not be worth the time [see Star Fortress]). In January they'll tell is how'd they 'want to return to' making group content. How they: 1) want to; and 2) return to making. Not, in January we'll get an op. Not in January they'll tell us an op is coming in 2017. Since 4.0 they have been milking the same material. *That's* the problem.

And how do you trigger these 'new' bosses? By doing old content. Again.

The issue is that GC is just a wrapper to hide the fact that we are doing the same content all over again.* *It remains to be seen if Uprisings are any better than SFs were.

What is new group content? A couple uprisings? Which may (or may not) be as greatly repeatable (that's sarcasm) as Star Fortresses were? The OP's point is really that 4.0 used old content as filler for Alliance. Post-4.0, we've been given a wrapper for old content in the form of DvL. And now, 5.0 is, with the exception of Uprisings (perhaps), old content wrapped up in Galactic Commander. GC is Bioware's way of trying to make Face Merchants on Coruscant serve as endgame content.

Apparently schematics are also a drop from GC crates. It'll be a hoot if your Cybertech gets Artificer schematics (if they are BoP).

I agree completely with you on the effect of this GC system. I disagree with you on the why. Its not that they don't know how people play. Its that they cannot make new content. This is nothing more than a way to make Face Merchants on Coruscant into 'endgame.' Lets note the very distinct words used in their messages about Jan 2017. They 'would like' to return to group content. At face value, that isn't, 'will return to.' Its a desire to do so. All Bioware did today was put a prettier shade of red lipstick on a pig.

People saying this will all be OK should be forced to get loot from a bugged boss that has a solid chance of dropping an un-moddable and bound piece for a role you cannot fill. (I.e., Soa, at launch, who was bugged and dropped Tionese gear for classes that weren't present in the raid). Oh, wait. That's right. Us elitist veterans already fought that fight for them.

No ... it could get worse. 1 in100 GC crates could be an old-school Tionese set, unmoddable!, for a role that your class cannot even assume. A sage healer chest for a guardian! They could bill it as the 5th Year Soa at 1.0 Anniversary Award.

I started PUGging again to try and help get people through DvL. I quit after asking an assassin to stealth CC a marked mob so that we could cut by, only for him to proceed in stealth to the mob ... and cast Whirlwind on it.