nerf underlurker in story mode already

[Akam]

I miss the days when there weren't multiple difficulty levels and if you wanted to raid...you had to work for that ****. RIP WoW Vanilla-BC

[onegoldpls]

I miss the days when there weren't multiple difficulty levels and if you wanted to raid...you had to work for that ****. RIP WoW Vanilla-BC

 

In these days mmo's were very rare, new and interesting for people. In these days many countries just got high speed internet. Make mmo like this now and you'll see what happens - see Wildstar. People prefer easy games and nothing you can do about it.

Edited May 25, 2015 by onegoldpls

[Akam]

In these days mmo's were very rare, new and interesting for people. In these days many countries just got high speed internet. Make mmo like this now and you'll see what happens - see Wildstar. People prefer easy games and nothing you can do about it.

 

So you speak for everyone then? I didn't know...

[fire-breath]

Lets think for a minute what you state here, first you state that the Underlurker has been nerfed. He has not been nerfed (like lowered HP or that his cross finally works) his abilities has been adjusted to cast correctly and its adds has somewhat lower hp then before. There has been no adjustment to the underlurker when it comes to the balance issues a huge part of the community has asked to change for months. I highly recommend you read through the patchnotes what has actually been done with the boss Underlurker. It is not a nerf, it is a mediocre attempt of tuning him.

 

1x lurker - 2.600.000

5x a wave of 3 adds - 100.000 per add

Total HP to kill 4.100.000

With 5 DPS and 1 tank (who pulls 1.200 dps) your dps will need to deal around 2.600 DPS per person in order to kill the boss before enrage happens.

 

After the nerf

1x lurker - 2.600.000

5x a wave of 3 adds - 90.000 per add (I think???)

Total HP to kill 3.960.000 (140k less)

With 5 DPS and 1 tank (who pulls 1.200 dps) you dps will need to deal around 2.500 DPS per person.

 

100 DPS needed less is a pretty significant nerf imvho.

 

The nerf might not be enough but don't underestimate the power of lowering the adds HP please

[Akam]

Furthermore, not that the boss needs a nerf, but you definitely sound more intelligent and worth looking into if you provide actionable feedback on why the boss needs nerfed. For example;

 

SM Underlurker 8-man

 

• Boss has too much HP
  
• Adds have too much HP
  
• Boss does too much damage
  
• Adds do too much damage
  
• Not enough time to position in cross
  
• Cross does too much damage
  
• "Role Icons" are not exactly clear / hard to see
  
• Collapse channel is too short
  
• Rocks are too spread out / too close together
  

 

Just a few possibilities one might consider about boss tuning in general as opposed to saying "nerf boss. too stronk"

[onegoldpls]

Furthermore, not that the boss needs a nerf, but you definitely sound more intelligent and worth looking into if you provide actionable feedback on why the boss needs nerfed. For example;

 

SM Underlurker 8-man

• Boss has too much HP
  
• Adds have too much HP
  
• Boss does too much damage
  
• Adds do too much damage
  
• Not enough time to position in cross
  
• Cross does too much damage
  
• "Role Icons" are not exactly clear / hard to see
  
• Collapse channel is too short
  
• Rocks are too spread out / too close together
  

Just a few possibilities one might consider about boss tuning in general as opposed to saying "nerf boss. too stronk"

 

i already said input damage and boss health should be nerfed on 20-30%. That would be enough to make this boss like other bosses in story mode. It won't completely nerf this boss into joke, it will make just like other bosses in story mode. I hope it's clear for you.

 

So you speak for everyone then? I didn't know...

Games would never run on people who wants muh hardcoreraidings. It's like 1% of all players. Developers won't get enough money and will close the game eventually.

Edited May 25, 2015 by onegoldpls

[JouerTue]

i'll steal you the list to reply again

 

SM Underlurker 8-man

 

Boss has too much HP: 2.5k dps, you are trying a raid come on..

Adds have too much HP: ^^ + 90k less is going to be at least 5-6 cgd less so 10'' shorter adds phase

Boss does too much damage: healing is trivial already even eating red crosses for all the fight

Adds do too much damage: l2p melee, don't stand all on the add in front..slightly far in the back

Not enough time to position in cross: meh all hide the same rock, it's a tactic..basic movement

Cross does too much damage: l2p dcd, you trying a raid come on..

"Role Icons" are not exactly clear / hard to see: and they don't matter

Collapse channel is too short: should have already killed the adds or 2/3 and gone hiding to let rdps kill the last

Rocks are too spread out / too close together: rng is rng

 

the numbers are ok for sm..i think some people just forgot some of the old bosses at the content's level..

and the tactical 12x kuat generation need to l2p since they didn't levelling or during fps..

[DawnAskham]

i'll steal you the list to reply again

 

SM Underlurker 8-man

 

Boss has too much HP: 2.5k dps, you are trying a raid come on..

Adds have too much HP: ^^ + 90k less is going to be at least 5-6 cgd less so 10'' shorter adds phase

Boss does too much damage: healing is trivial already even eating red crosses for all the fight

Adds do too much damage: l2p melee, don't stand all on the add in front..slightly far in the back

Not enough time to position in cross: meh all hide the same rock, it's a tactic..basic movement

Cross does too much damage: l2p dcd, you trying a raid come on..

"Role Icons" are not exactly clear / hard to see: and they don't matter

Collapse channel is too short: should have already killed the adds or 2/3 and gone hiding to let rdps kill the last

Rocks are too spread out / too close together: rng is rng

 

the numbers are ok for sm..i think some people just forgot some of the old bosses at the content's level..

and the tactical 12x kuat generation need to l2p since they didn't levelling or during fps..

 

I'm not sure anything except reducing the cross phase damage such that players could ignore the mechanic (without great healers or cheesing it with Sonic Rebounder) and still survive would help some of the pugs.

 

I do think removing Devastate damage (or making it hit everyone in raid equally) might help, as might an increase in the enrage timer (and / or timers between rocks / cross / devastate).

 

However, I can't help but wonder if the real problem with this boss are all the people who can't seem to figure out left from right which leads to player deaths which leads to adds staying up and more people dying and the boss ultimately enraging if anyone survives that long.

 

Something is off though, if content designed for average players and part of the group finder queue is still not being completed by the majority of the player base six months after it was released.

 

Truth be told, I won't run ToS with a random pug group. On my alts, I make my own groups and look for players with reasonable gear (minimum 186 augmented) and the UL achievement.

Edited May 26, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Icestar]

You know Ice. Me and you are just never going to be on the same side for this discussion. Ever.

 

That is your point of view, I am not interested in having opposite sides here on the forum. Only constructive discussions and feedback. My guess is that you think you represent those that spend lots of time taking on bosses regardless if they work or not, only to say that you could. I might be wrong but that is my virtual opinion of you.

 

UL isn't impossible, or even that difficult now after the add health was dropped. They also nerfed the damaged output pretty severely as I've seen with my healing parses.

 

If you by some reason are interested in this I was part of taking down Underlurker before they nerfed the adds or changed his attacks. Now with that said, I still believe that the Underlurker boss is far from done and really, really needs looked into. I do not constantly remind players that I actually has never stopped played this game since pre-launch and I have played all advanced classes through OPS content at level 50 when that was max level, at level 55 when that was max level and finally at level 60. I know what I am doing.

 

It's an end game operations boss. End game. No matter what the "level" people want to say it is, it's end game content. People need to learn that growth in game is not a bad thing, or something to shy away from. It's not scary, and it's not horrible, and no one is selling their souls regarding getting better.

 

It is a boss that blocks the enjoyement of those that wants to have a good time playing ToS and finally reaching Revan. They can boost Revan if they want, I do not care he deserve it aslong it is not new bugs.

 

I've failed on UL a few the past two weeks. And I can tell ya a lot of people blame bugs when really they're not doing the mechanics properly. The cross phase works if people are in the right spots.

 

Let me correct you there, the cross phase works when the server thinks the players are at the correct spots. That is why players have to jump to sync the client and server so no big disasters happen. This is not always possible due to shortage of time or something unexpected happens, and boom once again the server thinks that the player is in the wrong spot. This is also needed to do when player hide behind rocks since the client can think that the player has arrived but the server thinks that the player is on its way and let the hiding fail.

 

 

The adds go down insanely fast even if you're doing bogus dps numbers if people focus the same adds and have a plan of attack (first wave of adds door to exit, second wave exit to door for instance). You really don't take damage while in the green safe zone, if you're taking damage you're running to the zone, or you're not in it. I've witnessed tons of players not even go for the rocks for cover and then go "well they didn't show up, I didnt know". They were tunneling the boss and too embarrassed to admit it which is fine they'll get over that through time. There's been palyers who are still running to the cross and are like well I didnt know. It comes down to players paying attention. Seriously.

 

Here we have a VERY interesting aspect, what about those with computers that does not update fast enough to be able to choose where to go or to be very selective where to hide. This OPS is not only very demanding when it comes to computer specification it is also very demanding regarding latency. In this case those with low ping and fast computers gets a advantage, over those with fps that tries to find closests hidingspot possible to not die completely. Minimum specc regarding this game is a joke but I guess anyone that tries to run this game in ToS knows that already.

 

There is a serious issue with player skill, and it's not because UL is too hard. It's because they need to just do a little more. And, I dont think that's unfair of me to ask of them. What's horribly unfair is the fact that people such as me who start these pug groups have to literally 4-5 man these bosses just so someone else can have their fun. I mean I'm cool with it for the most part. But, that doesn't mean it's right.

 

TL DR UL is FINE in it's current form. Players pay more attention, and don't shy away from trying to grow and get better. Oh I forgot, story mean story yada yada yada.

 

Story mode are supposed to be fun, some players are not interested in treating a game like a job. It is the hard cold truth, some like to log on and have a good time. Some does not want to study 10 hours before doing the next boss or parse a few hours only to be "competitive". Aslong as Bioware keeps the general playerbase happy with fun content this game will survive.

 

In general all I want Bioware to do is to have a good long look at the statistics of the playerbase, how many starts ToS and how many completes it. How many gets stuck on Underlurker and why? Is it because of players taking very much damage, or is it because players actually do got a clue how to do this boss but the mechanics tend to bug out making the encounter frustrating and no fun at all, so players leave. Some even after one or two tries because it is not worth the time.

[Ubikface]

Give SM lurker a 9 sec increase to enrage timer, increase the cast time of devastation by 1.5 secs so even people with terrible latency can get in and jump, perhaps make the lurkerling slightly more melee friendly by not ramping damage the closer you are Also increase the time from lurkerling spawn to collapse by 1.5 secs.

 

However I would also make a failed cross 3 x 30k hit raid wipe so it can't be cheesed by rebounder as well as have a green cross just do an aoe splash damage around the underlurker instead of a targeted hit (so it can't rng stack all the hits on one person).

 

HM should also have a failed cross wipe the raid through multiple high damage hits instead of one massive spike.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Ubikface

[Torvai]

Story mode are supposed to be fun, some players are not interested in treating a game like a job. It is the hard cold truth, some like to log on and have a good time. Some does not want to study 10 hours before doing the next boss or parse a few hours only to be "competitive". Aslong as Bioware keeps the general playerbase happy with fun content this game will survive.

Guess what, you don't need to. The dps and hps requirements on Lurker aren't high. They're a joke. Go search on youtube, Technicians(and I'm sure a few others as well) have 4manned this boss, even before the nerf to the adds health. What does that tell you when some 4man this boss and others can't make it with 8? Hell, we've even oneshotted this thing on 16m Story with 8man.

 

What the Lurker needs in story mode is an adjustment to the cross, so it doesn't check if all 8/16 man are in place, but rather that there's one or more on every side of the cross, so bads who have no clue about left and right can be carried again through this. No need to reduce bosses or adds health, or to give it more time on enrage. No. Need.

[Isaacone]

but we 4 manned it already before they reduced the hp of adds, do you want them to make it a complete joke ?

 

 

you should transfer to a server that's not full of bads

 

Everytime I see someone bring up how hard that fight is I bring this up.

[power-alex]

My advice to you: don't ever join a random pug. Join at least someone that asks to link achievement.

 

When I form a pug for ToS I go with 1 tank, 5 dps, 2 heals. And I specifically ask in general chat for dps to parse 3+kdps. It takes longer to form but makes for amazing experience. Clear ToS sm 3 to 5 times each week with pugs. One time a healer asked to single heal so we had 1 tank, 1 heal, 6 dps - it was the most fun I ever had in ToS.

 

Other than that try to be a better player yourself: use binds, don't be a clicker or you will miss half the mechanics or pull terrible numbers. Read your tooltips. Use augments. Read some kind of guide about correct gearing stats. Practice your dps on a dummy or healing in a flashpoint (first tactical then HM). All of that will take like several hours, or a few days if you play an hour a day...

[Overmind]

Don't nerf it, just fix the bugs.

[FerkWork]

Other than that try to be a better player yourself: use binds, don't be a clicker or you will miss half the mechanics or pull terrible numbers.

 

U wot m8?

I click all the time and can get pull at least 4k DPS in most of the fights.

[power-alex]

U wot m8?

I click all the time and can get pull at least 4k DPS in most of the fights.

 

ok, use binds or click like FerkWork

[BobFredJohn]

I personally think UL is fine. If you want a face-roll snooze-fest pick up all the level 55 op's weekly and do those, they still have decent numbers of comms (18 elites 10 ultis each). Even the level 50 ops weekly missions give some elites.

 

Though I would offer a story of something ironic. The first time I did UL was a guild run, a dps dropped out after second boss due to rl, I offered to replace them. The first experience I had of ToS was UL. I had the fight explained and we started. We were all on ts (though a couple of us only had speakers and no mics) and all had the fight explained. We wiped twice then third run the boss enraged at 2% and we ended up killing it with 3 people left alive.

 

Then I went for a pug of it via gf. I let them know I had not done the first two bosses (which tbh were an embarassment, I though the 4th "boss" was easy, turns out the second is even easier). Then we get to ul. This is a pug run, no ts, and we beat it first time before enrage.

 

Seems the guild is worse than a pug lol.

 

That is your point of view, I am not interested in having opposite sides here on the forum.

 

Lol, god forbid that anybody should disagree with you.

 

Seriously though, telling people on an open forum that if their opinion differs they should remain quiet? rediculous.

 

Story mode are supposed to be fun, some players are not interested in treating a game like a job. It is the hard cold truth, some like to log on and have a good time. Some does not want to study 10 hours before doing the next boss or parse a few hours only to be "competitive". Aslong as Bioware keeps the general playerbase happy with fun content this game will survive.

 

I might also add, what is the obsession with damn parse? I never read guides, I don't have parse, I only recently got ts because the guild said it meant they could explain fights during the trash inbetween, saving time overall. All these extra programs which are "essential" for operations are completely irrelevant. I dont give a damn if my dps is 4k or 3.9k, if we beat the enrage then who cares? If I hold aggro does it really matter if the difference between me and another person was 1 threat point or 7000000 threat points? Its irrelevant, as long as I have aggro.

Edited May 26, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[Icestar]

Lol, god forbid that anybody should disagree with you.

 

Seriously though, telling people on an open forum that if their opinion differs they should remain quiet? rediculous.

 

Try to read what I mean before stating that I want to quiet someone. I would verymuch like to hear a reply to my post directed at Shwarzchilds. It is he that begins the post with:

 

You know Ice. Me and you are just never going to be on the same side for this discussion. Ever.

 

I responded with that I am not interested in having opposites here arguing, instead I write that a constructive discussion and feedback is better. To me there are no opposite sides in this matter only feeback that we all can provide to Bioware to make a better game. I would never, ever tell another user to remain quiet. I will wait for my response, if I get any.

 

I might also add, what is the obsession with damn parse?

 

Some players are obsessed with parse and refuses to play with others that does not parse. It is more common in HM content and with NiM content. It is a way to measure if the characters can pull their weitght or not. Some guilds like to use it and some dont. I prefer guilds that skip parsing at SM content but do not mind it when it comes to HM and NiM content.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Icestar

[emeraldon]

I know there are a lot of pro players who can kill him with eyes closed, so please go away.

It's a bane for pug groups and most of casual players who just want to complete weekly mission. I could only kill him with 1 of 10 groups on this week which was fully 192-198 geared. There is absolutely no reason for a 3rd boss to be much harder than all others including last boss from story mode. Maybe just let casuals to complete this operation without nightmares.

 

This isn't an issue with the boss. It's an issue with the player base in this game. The average skill of the players in this game is painfully low. The game is filled with keyboard turners, backpaddlers and clickers. It's crazy. The Underlurker is not hard. At all. He just requires you to not have your fingers up your bum for 3 minutes. There's a limit to how easy developers can make a boss before it gets ridiculous. The fact that people can't adapt or learn fight mechanics for certain bosses is not the developers fault.

[Dark_Mithrandir]

This isn't an issue with the boss. It's an issue with the player base in this game. The average skill of the players in this game is painfully low. The game is filled with keyboard turners, backpaddlers and clickers. It's crazy. The Underlurker is not hard. At all. He just requires you to not have your fingers up your bum for 3 minutes. There's a limit to how easy developers can make a boss before it gets ridiculous. The fact that people can't adapt or learn fight mechanics for certain bosses is not the developers fault.

 

+1

Every time game goes easier we get even worse player base.

Next nerf will put this game into the same level as hello kitty mmo difficulty.

Seems some players never tried anything harder than duke nukem - piece of cake mode.

[onegoldpls]

My advice to you: don't ever join a random pug. Join at least someone that asks to link achievement.

 

Not everyone has time to monitor general chat for entire week until some1 will make a decent group. Sometimes you need to wait half day until someone makes a group at all.

I was in 4 groups that was requesting achievent and only last one was able to kill it and only because it was hardly overgeared with half of 198 items like me.

[Icestar]

The fact that people can't adapt or learn fight mechanics for certain bosses is not the developers fault.

 

If you read what players write it is not that much about the mechanics itself it is about the mechanics bugging out.

 

If the rocks and the hidingplaces worked like a charm it would be no harder to hide there then the rocks in Scum and Villany, but they bug out and players take damage.

 

If the cross worked like a charm with all players standing in the correct spot and 100% of the times turn green without doing lots of damage but sometimes damage occur for no reason, not a player fault.

 

If the player moves into position and the player feels safe but still gets hit by massive damage only be cause the player did not jump fast enough for the client and server update, not the players fault.

 

Iit is not the playerbases inability to learn a mechanics hundreds of posts regarding the bugged Underlurker are created for, it is because the Underlurker does bug out and needs to be looked into. If it were any other company they would have taken him back to the drawing board to see what cause those bugs and glitches. They must have hundreds if not thousands of those bugreports by now.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Icestar

[Icestar]

+1

Every time game goes easier we get even worse player base.

Next nerf will put this game into the same level as hello kitty mmo difficulty.

Seems some players never tried anything harder than duke nukem - piece of cake mode.

 

They do not need to nerf the Underlurker, they need to get the mechanics work 100% of the time.

 

Can you say that the Underlurker has flawless mechanics that works every time you fight him?

 

So far I have not heard from anyone that takes down Underlurker several times a week that it was a perfect (not having to jump to update client and the server for example), flawless, bugfree victory.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Icestar

[onegoldpls]

+1

Every time game goes easier we get even worse player base.

 

Every time game goes hard it looses players.

I prefer easy game with enough playerbase than dead game with 1.5 skilled player.

Also swtor was always easy. Story mode could always be done with any group in absolutely all ops in all patches. So it's very late to complain about difficulty.

Edited May 26, 2015 by onegoldpls

[Nomaad]

Heaven forbid we have to use mechanics...if you want super easy for super easy loot for your special binkies then go play Warcraft.