Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[OrbitalDecay]

This post was (is) an epiphany …

Playing through the game I have just felt there was a ‘disconnect’ between myself and the in game avatar, but I was not able to put my finger on it, until now.

 

Being a casual PvP’er the ability stacking it irritating but not a ‘deal breaker’ as it were. The lack of character responsiveness could very well end up being one though. As a player of many MMORPGs across the years I have to fully agree with your assessment that this aspect is one of the things WoW got spot on. This might be a reach, but SWTOR almost reminds me of UO in this aspect. You click on something and there is just this, barely perceptible, pause before said action triggers. Maddening.

 

As someone 99.9953% in this game for the RPG aspect, this lack of connection (for lack of knowing a better way of saying it) to the in game persona is already starting to get frustrating. I can’t imagine how a PvP centric player must be feeling.

 

For your post, both for it's content and also in how you presented it, my thanks.

[Ahandii]

This is the problem that i've seen in every other MMO that i've tried besides WoW.. It always makes me return to WoW - this time i'd rather drop the whole MMORPG genre all togehter tho, untill better MMORPG days will come.

 

I tried Warhammer, GW 1, and now SW:TOR. And i have never really been able to describe the exact reason why it just feels like a step down from WoW, game mechanically wise.

 

This is it tho, i could'nt have described it any better.. It is gamebreaking for anyone who has played WoW i would dare to say..

[Gohlar]

WoW just fakes it. That's why you can mount up before the bar is full, stun each other, etc.

 

It always kinda bothered me how a-synchronous WoW is. All game are but WoW trades accuracy for the appearance of local responsiveness.

 

It's a preference I guess, I prefer accuracy to things not matching up on screen which happens all the time in WoW.

 

 

Thing is once a lot of people start doing operation and some spell require interrupt you will need to dedicate one person to simply watch the mob cast time because if they are using any kind of ability they won't be able to respond quickly enough ...

 

it's not game breaking for leveling because most of the time people do yellow/green questing , but if you try orange quest you will see that the ability delay is a real killer even in pve.

 

Completely untrue. I interrupt all the time in both pve and pvp while using abilities. I interrupt while tanking constantly.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Gohlar

[Nemmar]

Thing is once a lot of people start doing operation and some spell require interrupt you will need to dedicate one person to simply watch the mob cast time because if they are using any kind of ability they won't be able to respond quickly enough ...

 

it's not game breaking for leveling because most of the time people do yellow/green questing , but if you try orange quest you will see that the ability delay is a real killer even in pve.

 

Now see that is not the bug beeing talked about in this thread.

 

Problem with this thread: the real bug isnt that serious and people confuse it with the 0.5 ability delay that is in by default.

 

Dude, set your ability delay to 0.0 in the preferances and you will be able to interrupt no problem at all.

 

The issue here is with casting bar abilities, not instants.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Nemmar

[myrmexaw]

To OP ( please read and respond)

 

To be fair i didnt read 100% of your post, but that is because as soon as i saw title of this thread i agreed 100% and thought "finally some1 else noticed". I play a shadow and even though i love the class there are times i feel a disconnect between what im telling my avatar to do and what he ( animation) is actually doing. It just feels like the moves/animations do not flow together "smoothly" enough. Please note i do not spam buttons. At first i thought maybe if i had high alacrity or whatever this might reduce, but dont think thats the case now. So in short i support you on this point 100%.

 

unfortunately it seems like alacrity simply enhance the problem further... but we will see later on.

[mutharex]

Everyone has the problem but some choose to adapt to it until the real bummer where they won't be able to progress become real for them as well and join the bandwagon.

 

There is a video, a couple of pages back, that shows no lag/delay whatsoever. Not everyone is affected, even people who are affected say that it doesn't happen all the time, but especially in very busy zones

 

BW is surely aware of this, they are likely investigating why it happens. Still you aren't likely to see a dev post in general

[Zakumene]

You guys are silly.

 

First off - not seeing lag the way you're describing it. You're doing it wrong.

 

Second - whats the difference?

 

Either your characters animation goes off instantly or not instantly, it still has to register in the game.

 

So do you want your animation to go off and have no immediate effect, or go off and have the effect at the exact moment its actually being registered (visually match)?

[mutharex]

If Bioware spent as much time fixing issues like the OP suggested as they do removing topics and posts on these forums we might get a better playing experience.

 

They are here reading these forums, trust me, i was in the forums all day yesterday at work trying to respond to posts that kept getting deleted.

 

That's forum Mods, they likely not even work for BW directly

[myrmexaw]

Now se that is not the bug beeing talked about in this thread.

 

Problem with this thread: the real bug isnt that serious and people confuse it with the 0.5 ability delay that is in by default.

 

Dude, set your ability delay to 0.0 in the preferances and you will be able to interrupt no problem at all.

 

Not if my character is still casting my 2.5 second cast that in reality require me to wait 3.5 second to do any other ability....or what about my dual strike that is instant yet require 2 second to cast any other ability afterward....

[Scaire]

I am a financial controller at a major fortune 500 company. Here is a little insight from the corporate perspective....

 

They know about the issue. They have probably always known about the issue. It wouldn't surprise me if right now they are sitting in a board room with all 200+ pages of this forum post discussing how to handle this issue. It would be suicide for them to post anything on this topic unless if they had a fix in mind, which they probably do not.

 

The saddest part is that there may be no fix to this,if there was you would have seen it fixed in one of the many beta versions of the game. I do not know how you build such a good game on such a bad foundation.

 

Your cries are not going unheard, but they may go unanswered.

[Perfik]

Thing is once a lot of people start doing operation and some spell require interrupt you will need to dedicate one person to simply watch the mob cast time because if they are using any kind of ability they won't be able to respond quickly enough ...

 

it's not game breaking for leveling because most of the time people do yellow/green questing , but if you try orange quest you will see that the ability delay is a real killer even in pve.

 

you got me wrong, i do not say that there is a problem or there isnt' . i am sick with all the doomsayers and "fix it till the end of the free month" or i go back to the super WOW attitude.

 

as i already stated maybe THIS is the gameplay that SWTOR will offer, maybe the encounters are based around THIS type of playstyle (not a player will heal/interrupt/move around like mad and casting spells at a 0.1 accuracy/min,maxing even the last willpower point) maybe maybe maybe

 

but NO the doomsayers and the elite players (i seriously doubt they are elites tho) say

I want THAT feature to be fixed NOW or i cancel....you can guess the answer to that

 

...do not let the door hit you while leaving

[Gohlar]

I am a financial controller at a major fortune 500 company. Here is a little insight from the corporate perspective....

 

They know about the issue. They have probably always known about the issue. It wouldn't surprise me if right now they are sitting in a board room with all 200+ pages of this forum post discussing how to handle this issue. It would be suicide for them to post anything on this topic unless if they had a fix in mind, which they probably do not.

 

The saddest part is that there may be no fix to this,if there was you would have seen it fixed in one of the many beta versions of the game. I do not know how you build such a good game on such a bad foundation.

 

Your cries are not going unheard, but they may go unanswered.

 

See the problem is you don't understand the issue, let alone what they are doing about it.

 

If you want them to fake it like WoW that's cool, I'd rather they didn't.

[Larlar]

Just to further the point, I wrote a review of Rift a few months back. I want to copy and paste what I wrote as it almost applies directly to this game aswell:

 

"Now, first of all, I'm going to focus on the negative, as for me one of the big let-downs in this game is the same let-down that has afflicted almost every fantasy MMO I have tried in the last 5/6 years - apart from Warcaft. That let down is the feel of the game and the gameplay - that elusive quality that you feel as you take control of your character: the responsiveness of the UI; the speed at which actions are executed on-screen when you press a key; the fluency of your movements and the degree in which you feel totally in control of your character. I guess its the very first thing I look for in any new game, and so far, nothing comes close to Wow in this regard. When you execute an ability in wow, you know it, and when you get hit by something - you know it. Like Age of Conan, Aion and Warhammer, Rift just doesn't get this critical aspect of the game quite right. Things just feel a little clunky and ever so slightly less responsive than a character in wow does.

 

...

Even at the very lowest graphics settings, the gameplay just doesn't feel smooth or perfectly responsive. Considering all of the games mentioned are more modern than WOW by a significant margin that is a damning indictment of the developers of these new games. Ultimately it is my view that this is the primary reason these new games get steamrollered by wow, and continually fall by the wayside as WOW dwarfs their subscription numbers.

 

This is my main gripe and its the absolute clincher for me when deciding whether I was going to actually buy the full version. There was lots to like, but ultimately, I couldnt justify paying the money when the game just doesn't feel fluent and doesn't feel polished in the area that really really counts - the gameplay."

 

Its the same thing... almost exactly. So therefore, I fully agree with the OP and the vast majority of people in this thread. This needs to be sorted and sorted fast.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Larlar

[CurzedMouse]

I remembered i have read something about combat in this game, posted from a developer so i made a quick search and found this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916

 

if you don't whant to read all the article i will just share a statement made by Mark How the Principal Lead Animator at BioWare : " A key aspect we learned early in development was that players do not enjoy having character control taken away from them because of an action or animation. "

 

So Bioware you are still developing the promised combat style? because the players are not enjoying it right now

[sac-]

I made a video showing a brief example of animation cancelling, just one of the issues bogging down character responsiveness. At about 0:13 my Riposte (number 5 skill) lights up and becomes available. I spam the button, and watch as my character proceeds to reset his animation every time I hit it. This is a reoccuring problem, and others have experienced it as well.

 

 

Before it's asked, no I didn't have lag, my latency remains stable and at 4 bars (in the bottom right).

 

Also 0:08, he tries to use Zealous Strike (first skill, Q hotkey), the animation begins, the GCD is triggered, you can even hear the sound. Everything working, right? Then the animation reset, nothing else happens, GCD lost. Right after comes the Riposte thing. Not a FPS issue as he could fraps on 1080p and not lag either (4 bars).

 

If this is 'working as intended' and some weird feature, then yes, I agree with you, this game is not for me.

[myrmexaw]

There is a video, a couple of pages back, that shows no lag/delay whatsoever. Not everyone is affected, even people who are affected say that it doesn't happen all the time, but especially in very busy zones

 

BW is surely aware of this, they are likely investigating why it happens. Still you aren't likely to see a dev post in general

 

ok roll a jedi shadow until you gain the ability called dual strike , go in the most ghost town remote place you can find and use the ability quickly followed by another ... no matter where you are in game you will not be able to use an ability right after because the second blade swing happens AFTER the global cooldown is over even tough it is an instant ability.

 

What some people refer to as not bugged is because we are used to seeing instant as an ability that can be used in the same amount of time the GCD takes making it seem fluid while here it isn't , what is fluid is the animation of your character swinging his sword...Not exactly what is looked at by mmorpg player.

[Gohlar]

ok roll a jedi shadow until you gain the ability called dual strike , go in the most ghost town remote place you can find and use the ability quickly followed by another ... no matter where you are in game you will not be able to use an ability right after because the second blade swing happens AFTER the global cooldown is over even tough it is an instant ability.

 

What some people refer to as not bugged is because we are used to seeing instant as an ability that can be used in the same amount of time the GCD takes making it seem fluid while here it isn't , what is fluid is the animation of your character swinging his sword...Not exactly what is looked at by mmorpg player.

 

Unlike WoW, animations matter here.

 

Remember WoW just fakes it. Most of what you see doesn't mean anything.

[Lendrogh]

Thanks for the info, I felt this problem, especially with interrupts, but didnt know how to label the issue.

 

I come from WoW btw, maybe thats why i feel it so badly.

 

At first I thought it was lag, but i even have less ms than in WoW servers, so that wasn't the problem.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lendrogh

[Lethality]

See the problem is you don't understand the issue, let alone what they are doing about it.

 

If you want them to fake it like WoW that's cool, I'd rather they didn't.

 

Gameplay should be king.

 

Adjusting for inherent weaknesses of client/server communication and making sure the player combat feels responsive is more important than "faking it" a little.

 

While I don't think it's an overall "game breaking" issue as the title suggests, it is for some people. The game is perfect in so many other ways.

 

This may not be fixable. I'm sure BioWare is aware of it, and there may be a reason it still exists to this day after so much game testing.

[Torgadar]

Unlike WoW, animations matter here.

 

Remember WoW just fakes it. Most of what you see doesn't mean anything.

 

Animations are nice and all. But...

 

When it comes to my character doing what I tell it, instant should be instant. I don't care about the stupid animations.

 

/Faceplanted off my mount one too many times.

[Scaire]

See the problem is you don't understand the issue, let alone what they are doing about it.

 

If you want them to fake it like WoW that's cool, I'd rather they didn't.

 

I agree with you, I do not know the technical aspects of fixing the issue but I do know that they are aware of it and that if it was an easy fix that they would have fixed it a long time ago, which is not the case.

 

However, I do genuinely hope there is a fix as I enjoy this game and hope that it can compete. To all the people that are asking for a response I would not expect one unless if they knew how to fix it

[hobieone]

yes the character ability delayed needs to be fixed asap. last night i was getting up to 3 second delay for a bit then it would be ok then swing back to being long

[Gohlar]

Animations are nice and all. But...

 

When it comes to my character doing what I tell it, instant should be instant. I don't care about the stupid animations.

 

/Faceplanted off my mount one too many times.

 

I just read:

 

"Any animation that last longer than the gcd should be reported. All animations are to be finished by the end of the gcd, unless it is a channeled ability of course."

 

So maybe it isn't working at intended. If that is the case these are the things that get fixed sooner than later usually.

 

Gameplay should be king.

 

Adjusting for inherent weaknesses of client/server communication and making sure the player combat feels responsive is more important than "faking it" a little.

 

While I don't think it's an overall "game breaking" issue as the title suggests, it is for some people. The game is perfect in so many other ways.

 

This may not be fixable. I'm sure BioWare is aware of it, and there may be a reason it still exists to this day after so much game testing.

 

See I experience little to no delay. I have a good connection and computer. I'd rather not go back to confusion and illusion personally.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Gohlar

[Lethality]

Unlike WoW, animations matter here.

 

Remember WoW just fakes it. Most of what you see doesn't mean anything.

 

If animations get in the way of gameplay, it is gamebreaking.

 

They've said they don't even hold story sacred over gameplay. Animations certainly are not.

 

The choreographed combat largely goes unnoticed especially on large closeup battles, and only really effects melee classes anyway, so it probably needs to be trashed if it's the reason for any of this.

[Senzuki]

ok roll a jedi shadow until you gain the ability called dual strike , go in the most ghost town remote place you can find and use the ability quickly followed by another ... no matter where you are in game you will not be able to use an ability right after because the second blade swing happens AFTER the global cooldown is over even tough it is an instant ability.

 

What some people refer to as not bugged is because we are used to seeing instant as an ability that can be used in the same amount of time the GCD takes making it seem fluid while here it isn't , what is fluid is the animation of your character swinging his sword...Not exactly what is looked at by mmorpg player.

 

This is it! Thats the ability that causes me most frustration!

It feels like combat stops dead after its use. I cant explain the feeling better than that. Its called double strike and its an ability that ruins for me the "connection" to my avatar when in combat.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Senzuki