Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[Frybert]

I don't spend much time on Fleet, so I'm not sure how widespread it was on my server (The Bastion). I don't recall seeing a single mention of it in game at all regardless of where I was (and by "it", I mean the exploit while it was active or its aftermath). I'd assume a lot of people (on my server at least) are in the same position.

 

Not that it should matter, I was just pointing out that we can't assume that most people know what's going on because of what gets said here and on other forums. [Obviously, for your server, you aren't assuming that]

 

I am on bastion as well. I spend a lot of time on fleet and it was talked about. Didn't seem like too many people were doing it, more reaction stuff like here.

[_Coragin]

Just another thing to add to my List of reasons to unsubscribe i guess. The see-saw is getting very close to tipping over the edge...

 

No please dont go!

[Icebergy]

There's nothing important going on weekly, and that's the real problem with this game.

 

Here's three months worth of posting content for Eric, if he chose to do the bare acceptable minimum and address one topic per week:

 

Lack of PvP updates, and PvP dev direction.

Lack of GSF updates, and GSF dev direction.

Difficulty of SM Ops compared to previous tiers.

Difficulty of HM Ops compared to previous tiers.

Dev reasoning behind NiM Ops taking so long to be released, causing the PvE community to burn out on content.

Lack of new Ops on a timely basis.

The slot machine.

Torque being bugged.

Underlurker being bugged.

16man loot issues.

Rishi Datacron bugs.

Blaster's Path cantina.

Silver mobs supposedly doing too much damage (I have not personally experienced this at any level, but people say it is an issue).

 

Sure you could combine some of these into one issue, but by the time he got through this list, I am sure there would be another list ready for him.

 

And this is just off the top of my head, doing a bit of thought and searching through the forums I am sure I could come up with at least another month or two for him.

 

It really makes you wonder what exactly the community team does all day. They probably work something like 9-5 right? So they have to be at the office all day right? What do they do? They sure don't spend any time interacting with us.

[LyraineAlei]

Here's three months worth of posting content for Eric, if he chose to do the bare acceptable minimum and address one topic per week:

 

Lack of PvP updates, and PvP dev direction.

Lack of GSF updates, and GSF dev direction.

Difficulty of SM Ops compared to previous tiers.

Difficulty of HM Ops compared to previous tiers.

Dev reasoning behind NiM Ops taking so long to be released, causing the PvE community to burn out on content.

Lack of new Ops on a timely basis.

The slot machine.

Torque being bugged.

Underlurker being bugged.

16man loot issues.

Rishi Datacron bugs.

Blaster's Path cantina.

Silver mobs supposedly doing too much damage (I have not personally experienced this at any level, but people say it is an issue).

 

Sure you could combine some of these into one issue, but by the time he got through this list, I am sure there would be another list ready for him.

 

And this is just off the top of my head, doing a bit of thought and searching through the forums I am sure I could come up with at least another month or two for him.

 

It really makes you wonder what exactly the community team does all day. They probably work something like 9-5 right? So they have to be at the office all day right? What do they do? They sure don't spend any time interacting with us.

Plan what they're doing for the next Stream, the next Press Release (Cantina events), how to announce the next big thing, planning how to respond to us and our bipolar attitude.

[Divana]

I don't spend much time on Fleet, so I'm not sure how widespread it was on my server (The Bastion).

 

Get out more!

 

Had you spent any time on fleet or Rishi, you would have seen a lot of discussion and constant spam from people selling lockouts, albeit in creative speak. It was not a secret.

[Pagy]

If you're cheating and trying to spin the phrase, "but I should be able to do anything I want as long as I can say, it didnt affect anyone." is in no way reason to allow cheaters to continue. Nor does it somehow mean, continue cheating.

no one said this. i cant respond to or defend things i don't say.

Well you should. If any gamers got gear though illegal means, its not the right way things should have happened or the way it was meant to happen. Simple because you do don't care doesn't mean others shouldn't. Fair play and integrity in gaming is fairly important. It may not be something you can hold but it important for a game to strive for it..

IF they can't play fair the entire scope of the game is tainted. I personally don't care for that kind of game especially when it gets to the level this exploit did. Gamers daring BW do do anything. Gamers selling cheats openly in game. On a personal level, I don't care and it affects my way of thinking about the game and it's not good.

so let me get this straight. you're claiming youre affected because youre personally offended by what other people do that have no affect on you because they dont share your extreme definition moral turpitude?

are you next going to tell me that somewhere kids playing baseball in cuba just cheated and this is giving you emotional distress over the ethics and sanctity of baseball? please...you being offended is nothing more than a whine. so what...no one cares about your whining.

The whole, I can do what I want as long as I can claim it doesn't affect anyone is well past worn out as an excuse to break a rule. Doesn't matter if it's in a game or real life.

no one said this. i cant respond to or defend things i don't say.

When fair play is ruled out and the integrity of the game is diluted, it affects gamers on a personal level of what is right and wrong and thats pretty important to not screw up in gaming much less let players take advantage of.

then the problem is you and the fact that you care too much about things you shouldn't?

[Quraswren]

no one said this. i cant respond to or defend things i don't say.

 

Don't start acting obtuse now. It seems way to many seem to think that just because they can say, oh it's not hurting anyone so I should be able to get away with it." I can't say I support that.

 

so let me get this straight. you're claiming youre affected because youre personally offended by what other people do that have no affect on you because they dont share your extreme definition moral turpitude?

are you next going to tell me that somewhere kids playing baseball in cuba just cheated and this is giving you emotional distress over the ethics and sanctity of baseball? please...you being offended is nothing more than a whine. so what...no one cares about your whining.

 

Im saying if I am playing the same game as them, in the same game as them. I'd rather there not be cheaters in the game at all. In the context of MMos and online cheating is a no no and yes, its a personal issue as I take fair play and bit of integrity pretty seriously.

 

You don't have to like it or have any yourself but thinking others shouldn't is a rather warped bit of logic.

 

no one said this. i cant respond to or defend things i don't say.

then the problem is you and the fact that you care too much about things you shouldn't?

 

The problem starts and ends with cheaters and exploiters of a game others are in. The game itself does not need cheaters and exploiters. It hurts the game on a social level as well as just how the game and it's management is perceived. It's a problem and saying it doesn't hurt anyone is no justification to allow cheating.

[zufr]

In my guild we have a general rule that we don't use exploits. The first time we became aware of it was when we were approached by someone asking for a SM lockout. Once we knew it was out there, we actively discouraged our members from using it.

 

Now the process has come to an end, with the issue patched and the punishments handed out. At the end of it all, I feel like a chump. I'm an idiot.

 

There are 50 pages of posts in this thread debating the rights and the wrongs. There are exploiters defending themselves, others attacking the exploiters, and plenty of criticism from all corners for Bioware. Above it all, we have Musco's heartfelt words.

 

The bottom line is that the exploiters won. The fact on the ground is that people who used the bug were smart to do so. This is because those who took the risk are getting to keep their rewards. The characters still have their chest pieces, enhancements and tokens that they looted. They still have the credits from any materials that they sold. They still have the items that were crafted from the materials they obtained. Some people used the bug 20 times, or 40 times, and got a 1 day, or a 3 day ban. That is a price well worth paying for what they got.

 

I am dumb. I should have exploited. I will know better next time.

[LordArtemis]

There are many things in the game that occur that do so in ways that was not originally intended. Most of the QoL changes cover this type of thing.

 

That, in and of itself is not a reason to care about whether or not a player gets punished for exploiting IMO.

[eartharioch]

Get out more!

 

Had you spent any time on fleet or Rishi, you would have seen a lot of discussion and constant spam from people selling lockouts, albeit in creative speak. It was not a secret.

 

I wasn't saying it was a secret, just that I didn't see it. I had heard about it from various forums before it was announced here, but my guild hasn't been too active since 3.0 came out, so I've spent most of my time in my stronghold and leveling alts. Most of my time on Rishi/Yavin was with my mains before the patch that added the bug.

 

I'd really like to be able to get Fleet /general in my SH. I'm tired of watching people try to assemble Nar Shadda heroics

Edited January 30, 2015 by eartharioch

[JattaGin]

It really makes you wonder what exactly the community team does all day. They probably work something like 9-5 right? So they have to be at the office all day right? What do they do? They sure don't spend any time interacting with us.

 

This is actually a very interesting question. I suppose that they have other tasks to do which are not community-related. Otherwise it's really very little output for a full time job.

[Pagy]

Don't start acting obtuse now. It seems way to many seem to think that just because they can say, oh it's not hurting anyone so I should be able to get away with it." I can't say I support that.

ok except, for a thrid time. no one said this. they didnt say it in this thread, nor any other.

Im saying if I am playing the same game as them, in the same game as them. I'd rather there not be cheaters in the game at all. In the context of MMos and online cheating is a no no and yes, its a personal issue as I take fair play and bit of integrity pretty seriously.

 

You don't have to like it or have any yourself but thinking others shouldn't is a rather warped bit of logic.

whining about what digital pixels people are wearing in a game type that doesnt involve you or affect you is the flawed logic. you're just whining.

The problem starts and ends with cheaters and exploiters of a game others are in. The game itself does not need cheaters and exploiters. It hurts the game on a social level as well as just how the game and it's management is perceived. It's a problem and saying it doesn't hurt anyone is no justification to allow cheating.

your righteous indignation and whining about things that dont affect you is what hurts the game on a social level.

[Drockter]

In my guild we have a general rule that we don't use exploits. The first time we became aware of it was when we were approached by someone asking for a SM lockout. Once we knew it was out there, we actively discouraged our members from using it.

 

Now the process has come to an end, with the issue patched and the punishments handed out. At the end of it all, I feel like a chump. I'm an idiot.

 

There are 50 pages of posts in this thread debating the rights and the wrongs. There are exploiters defending themselves, others attacking the exploiters, and plenty of criticism from all corners for Bioware. Above it all, we have Musco's heartfelt words.

 

The bottom line is that the exploiters won. The fact on the ground is that people who used the bug were smart to do so. This is because those who took the risk are getting to keep their rewards. The characters still have their chest pieces, enhancements and tokens that they looted. They still have the credits from any materials that they sold. They still have the items that were crafted from the materials they obtained. Some people used the bug 20 times, or 40 times, and got a 1 day, or a 3 day ban. That is a price well worth paying for what they got.

 

I am dumb. I should have exploited. I will know better next time.

 

Couldn't disagree more... While it may not mean much to some... Earning my gear means something to me. Knowing that I had the opportunity to take the easy road, but choose instead to take the high road and work for my reward ... means something to me. Knowing that the members of my guild did the same... means something to me.

 

I will not compromise my principles to get something I didn't earn... be that in a game or in real life.

 

Prior to, during, and after the exploit my guild has a no exploit policy...

 

Don't feel dumb for doing what is right....ever.

[Quraswren]

ok except, for a thrid time. no one said this. they didnt say it in this thread, nor any other.

 

Depends on perspective. IF you continue to claim, there was no one harmed in cheating, then by normal standards you seem to think it's Ok if people break the rules. I do not think that is the way to go about things.

 

whining about what digital pixels people are wearing in a game type that doesnt involve you or affect you is the flawed logic. you're just whining.

 

I dislike cheaters. I don't care how anyone tries to justify cheating or pushing the blame to somewhere else. IT affects teh game I plan and how the game is perceived. It affects the entire gaming process. No game needs cheaters be it in my face or hidden.

 

your righteous indignation and whining about things that dont affect you is what hurts the game on a social level.

 

and your poor justification or reasoning of "does it hurt you" to condone cheating isn't something an MMO online game needs. I'd rather not muddy up the water and give someone some ill conceived nothing cheating has any place in game. You act like there is a time when cheating in the game should be overlooked or downplayed. It should not be and each case should be looked at on an individual bases for management to take action against or warnings given. But if you cheat, don't be surprise if something doesn't happen to you. Trying to ride the, "It didn't hurt you." makes little difference at that point. There a cheater, get rid of them.

 

EDIT-----------

 

Couldn't disagree more... While it may not mean much to some... Earning my gear means something to me. Knowing that I had the opportunity to take the easy road, but choose instead to take the high road and work for my reward ... means something to me. Knowing that the members of my guild did the same... means something to me.

 

I will not compromise my principles to get something I didn't earn... be that in a game or in real life.

 

Prior to, during, and after the exploit my guild has a no exploit policy...

 

Don't feel dumb for doing what is right....ever.

 

Well said. It was not really hard at all to not exploit and cheat the game.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Quraswren

[Klarick]

Wow, good job Eric. Thanks for sharing this information.

[Pagy]

Depends on perspective. IF you continue to claim, there was no one harmed in cheating, then by normal standards you seem to think it's Ok if people break the rules. I do not think that is the way to go about things.

that's completely not true as im demonstrating right now. you're making a baseless conclusion on a fabricated premise.

just because i think there is no harm, that doesnt mean i think its ok. i've said this many times. drop the strawman tactics, its exhausting.

I dislike cheaters. I don't care how anyone tries to justify cheating or pushing the blame to somewhere else. IT affects teh game I plan and how the game is perceived. It affects the entire gaming process. No game needs cheaters be it in my face or hidden.

yawn

and your poor justification or reasoning of "does it hurt you" to condone cheating isn't something an MMO online game needs. I'd rather not muddy up the water and give someone some ill conceived nothing cheating has any place in game. You act like there is a time when cheating in the game should be overlooked or downplayed. It should not be and each case should be looked at on an individual bases for management to take action against or warnings given. But if you cheat, don't be surprise if something doesn't happen to you. Trying to ride the, "It didn't hurt you." makes little difference at that point. There a cheater, get rid of them.

i didnt condone cheating. this is exhausting. i don't even know who you're replying to anymore but it isn't me.

[Quraswren]

that's completely not true as im demonstrating right now. you're making a baseless conclusion on a fabricated premise.

just because i think there is no harm, that doesnt mean i think its ok. i've said this many times. drop the strawman tactics, its exhausting.

 

Just because you think there is no harm doesn't mean there isn't harm in ways that are not always in your face. As I said, fair play and the games integrity comes into play at some point and those things have a certain amount of importance to the developers of the game and the gamers.

 

You don't have to like it or accept it but it's true.

 

yawn

 

and at the end of the day:

 

I dislike cheaters. I don't care how anyone tries to justify cheating or pushing the blame to somewhere else. IT affects teh game I play and how the game is perceived. It affects the entire gaming process. No game needs cheaters be it in my face or hidden.

 

i didnt condone cheating. this is exhausting. i don't even know who you're replying to anymore but it isn't me.

 

You don't have to condone it. You simply think there was no harm to which I disagree and your sentiment aligns with since there is no harm, it's no big deal and I don't agree with that.

 

Simply saying there is no harm is a rather worthless statement if you leave it at that when yes, cheating can cause harm to both the game and the gamers in more ways they just an in your face scenario.

 

People cheat all the time that doesn't directly affect me but I'd vote to kick them out of anything for just cheating alone.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Quraswren

[philliptiffany]

Sub canceled.......see-ya

[azudelphi]

Sub canceled.......see-ya

 

See, this I don't get. You're cancelling your sub because either your ill-gotten gains are removed, or because you are being punished for participating / enabling ill-gotten gains?

 

Really?

[XcaliberZeroNine]

I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread but...

 

In light of the leniency provided to players who took advantage of the exploit, and since you have the knowledge of who took advantage of what/when etc, how about reward the players that didn't take advantage of the exploit with some really cool ingame item/mount etc spread across their legacy that only the non-cheaters can receive?

 

i think this would be a good reward for those that took the more honorable route

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ok except, for a thrid time. no one said this. they didnt say it in this thread, nor any other.

whining about what digital pixels people are wearing in a game type that doesnt involve you or affect you is the flawed logic. you're just whining.

your righteous indignation and whining about things that dont affect you is what hurts the game on a social level.

 

You're still beating that dead horse about it not affecting people? Didn't we go over this week's ago and both you and Max failed to counter my and other point that it's not for you to judge whether or not this affects me ( or whomever says it does affect them ).

 

You keep acting like the gear is empty shells - it is not, they are rather huge power ups in terms of the game content over what one can easily get at 186.

 

Now there is the whole GTN point on people who legitimately gather materials/schematics missing out on the profit they could have made had this not been exploited. You can try push the tired view of "who cares" or "they are all gougers anyway" as some try to do but that's just opinionated nonsense and doesn't actually defeat the point of those players being affected by the exploit. They may have gone through the operation legitimately numerous times, dealt with the bug etc. just to get that schem then worked hard for the mats for it and wanted to sell it for say 2 million for arguments sake which they may have had plans for ( maybe conquest, maybe other gear they don't have, maybe vanity items ) however due to the exploit they could only sell it for say a few hundred K, that means all their plans are ruined due to cheaters and exploiters.

 

Now to the above point I put the burden of proof on to you to show how they aren't affected beyond your own opinion of how it may not matter or it's only digital pixels. That would be a rather lame argument to try make.

 

Now the gear itself. If I can't get into my guilds raid because I have 186 gear and they have 198 gear I have been affected. Same if I miss out on a pug spot ( has happened already ). Again it's not for you to say this doesn't matter or this won't happen unless you can actually prove this will never happen. The logic you speak of dictates that it WILL happen.

It may not happen all the time and there may be ways around it and the main thing for running ops may be mechanics ( though in guild runs when everyone knows mechanics they tend to take the better geared to avoid enrage timers and generally make things go smoother on all ) but the point is this will happen to people ( has happened to me at least once I can think of before I gave up trying to pug the ops until I hear they are fixed at least where people may be more willing to carry us "poorly geared" non cheaters ) and thus they are affected by cheaters.

 

Lastly here is a rather obscure point and not one I whole heartedly agree with because there is a counterpoint of "well don't ban them then" but thought I would throw out anyway...

The cheaters breaking ToS and getting themselves banned affects the game as there is less content to run now due to the small amount of players around. Thus their cheating has affected non cheaters by getting themselves banned heh. This is more a humorous point than a serious point though arguably still a valid point.

 

Anyway you like to emphasise others lack of logic in stating this affects them ... where is yours show that it doesn't because I'm yet to see it other than your own rather childish, trollish opinion.

 

Trolls gotta be trolling though right?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I read a few pages back I believe about some people wanting to hear what the state of the game is like since this and how many are affected?

 

Well I can report in on APAC Harbinger times at least from last night ( a Friday at that ) and it was an utter ghost town. Chat was literally dead compared to the norm, most of my guild has been banned, nothing was popping ( not that it usually does heh ) and there was a distinct lack of level 60 players on fleet ( where as before you couldn't walk 2 feet without seeing a 60 in 198's )

 

I think BW have done a great job of really nailing all the cheaters ( a couple slipped through and were bragging in what chat there was about it - real smart move heh ). To me though it's surprising how prevalent this was on Harbinger and the reason we're not hearing about it is because it seems more of the servers level 60's than not were banned heh.

[Infernixx]

I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread but...

 

In light of the leniency provided to players who took advantage of the exploit, and since you have the knowledge of who took advantage of what/when etc, how about reward the players that didn't take advantage of the exploit with some really cool ingame item/mount etc spread across their legacy that only the non-cheaters can receive?

 

i think this would be a good reward for those that took the more honorable route

 

I love this idea.

 

While we're at it, can I get a different reward for not win-trading in PVP and not using speed-hacks?

[Frybert]

I love this idea.

 

While we're at it, can I get a different reward for not win-trading in PVP and not using speed-hacks?

 

Ooo, hey yeah. I don't buy some gold spammers, so I should get something too, right?

[Tysu_Lanx]

See, this I don't get. You're cancelling your sub because either your ill-gotten gains are removed, or because you are being punished for participating / enabling ill-gotten gains?

 

Really?

 

I've still not found anyone who has had anything other than schematics removed.