Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[JattaGin]

Will you exploit or do win trading in the future ? I know lots that have said no way because bioware are now paying very close attention to data and will really punish players this round was more of a reminder we will get you and next time it's going to be immediate with severe action against anyone.

 

Really, this is what you have heard from lots of people? I heard the exact contrary from lots of people: If THAT is the punishment for exploiting, I'll become the biggest exploiter of 'em all.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Really, this is what you have heard from lots of people? I heard the exact contrary from lots of people: If THAT is the punishment for exploiting, I'll become the biggest exploiter of 'em all.

 

I've heard a lot of that talk but they did mention any caught this time aruond would be recorded and to expect more severe punishment if they did it again.

 

All it's really done is given free license for a small punishment to anyone who didn't cheat or missed it this time around to do so next time if they so choose.

 

Anyone already caught I would think faces perm ban if caught again.

[Sorwen]

Well I'm impressed you're sharing this much at least. Will have to see how it all really plays out.

I agree it is nice. I also like that it was variable. Feels more like the "punishment fits the crime" that way.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Sorwen

[KingFink]

 

My biggest frustrations with this whole fiasco right now is basically:

1. Why would you let them keep the gear but temp ban them?

2. Why did BW randomize the punishments so bad, that the great exploiters got very little time, yet someone who did very little got great time?

 

 

Well, let me speak to your theory that everything was arbitrary regarding the punishments. It wasn't. At all. Anyone who thinks that simply thinks that they didn't do what THEY wanted. Get over it.

 

Now, to answer your questions to the best of my limited knowledge:

 

1: No idea. I really have no idea why the gear was kept.

 

2: People aren't thinking about this correctly. The punishments are not random. The punishments are tailored to fit the persons exploiting in my experience. This seemed wrong at first, then after some thinking my friends and I came up with a plausible theory:

 

Everyone who exploited counts only their own looting of the chest as an infraction against the TOS. They are selling themselves short! So many people that I know HELPED others exploit. It takes TWO! You have to be in an OPS group, so any time you participated in facilitating the Exploit counts as well.

 

I know I had one friend tell me "Oh man, if that counts I exploited more times than I can count!" Therefore, this makes more sense to me.

 

Not saying this is correct, but I just think people aren't thinking things through. I can tell you one thing though, no matter how much people want to say that it was, it was NOT a random amount of time.

Edited February 3, 2015 by KingFink

[EzraFett]

Because when you agreed to the ToS you agreed not to cheat. Doesn't matter if it harms anyone. You entered into an agreement with Bioware and the player community not to do something.

 

The people who exploited the op violated this agreement. They broke their word.

 

Not because it was a coerced promise. Not because it was a social contract they never explicitly agreed to. Not because they were starving or about to become homeless. Not to save puppies and kittens and orphans. They did it because they could. They violated their word because they could and felt nothing would happen.

 

They are not the sort of people you should want to associate with. Period.

 

At it heart every case of cheating comes down to this. Not that it harmed someone else or was unfair. That you agreed to a set of rules and then violated your word that you would follow them.

 

I agree with you. I do not want to associate with people who cheat; and worse than the fact that they cheated (at least to me) is that they try to justify why they are entitled to cheat. "The game exploited me so many times that I deserve to exploit them game" What a crock.

 

Anyway I am glad to see Bioware actually doing something, even though I do not think it will deter most from exploiting in the future.

 

Of course most people are ok with how this turned out and are willing to put it all behind them. I guess that is good for the game. However I just can not bring myself to raid with the cheaters from my guild anymore. They don't care about a 24 hour suspension and they will do it all again next time.

[VincentBedok]

Well, let me speak to your theory that everything was arbitrary regarding the punishments. It wasn't. At all. Anyone who thinks that simply thinks that they didn't do what THEY wanted. Get over it.

 

Now, to answer your questions to the best of my limited knowledge:

 

1: No idea. I really have no idea why the gear was kept.

 

2: People aren't thinking about this correctly. The punishments are not random. The punishments are tailored to fit the persons exploiting in my experience. This seemed wrong at first, then after some thinking my friends and I came up with a plausible theory:

 

Everyone who exploited counts only their own looting of the chest as an infraction against the TOS. They are selling themselves short! So many people that I know HELPED others exploit. It takes TWO! You have to be in an OPS group, so any time you participated in facilitating the Exploit counts as well.

 

I know I had one friend tell me "Oh man, if that counts I exploited more times than I can count!" Therefore, this makes more sense to me.

 

Not saying this is correct, but I just think people aren't thinking things through. I can tell you one thing though, no matter how much people want to say that it was, it was NOT a random amount of time.

 

If anything it was absolutely random except for extreme offenders. Take for instance me & one of my guildies. He Did this 2 times (HM & SM) on his main & ended up with a 1 day Ban... Pretty much giving him the **** end of the stick... However, I did this countless times, let others in/gave away the lockout, & held the lockout for 2 weeks for my guildies, yet I have not been banned.

 

I do know for an almost definite fact that Bioware couldn't "see" the exploiters, they had to get creative in their ways of determining who exploited. Currently out of the 4 players I know that legitimately beat HM Ravagers, 3 of them exploited VERY heavily & none of them were banned, even for a day. Therefore meaning if you got the achievement for all HM bosses you were safe.

 

That being said, and Bioware obviously knowing this by now, I expect player tracking to be updated next patch. regardless of if we are told. It should be assumed that because of the shortfalls of these bans, and lack of accurate bans, that Bioware will be fully prepared to "poke us in our rears with wooden spoons" on the next "exploit."

[drgyruss]

If anything it was absolutely random except for extreme offenders. Take for instance me & one of my guildies. He Did this 2 times (HM & SM) on his main & ended up with a 1 day Ban... Pretty much giving him the **** end of the stick... However, I did this countless times, let others in/gave away the lockout, & held the lockout for 2 weeks for my guildies, yet I have not been banned.

 

I do know for an almost definite fact that Bioware couldn't "see" the exploiters, they had to get creative in their ways of determining who exploited. Currently out of the 4 players I know that legitimately beat HM Ravagers, 3 of them exploited VERY heavily & none of them were banned, even for a day. Therefore meaning if you got the achievement for all HM bosses you were safe.

 

That being said, and Bioware obviously knowing this by now, I expect player tracking to be updated next patch. regardless of if we are told. It should be assumed that because of the shortfalls of these bans, and lack of accurate bans, that Bioware will be fully prepared to "poke us in our rears with wooden spoons" on the next "exploit."

 

sorry but that is incorrect I know a heap of people that were 5/5 and exploited and also got bans ranging from 24hr-168hrs. what ever the logic was they used we will never know same goes for how long each exploiter was banned for but to me non of it makes any sense 1 example was a certain player selling the lockout and made over 100+ million from fleet sales and all they got was 24hrs.

[deezOneTenTen]

Like it or hate hate it, it is what it is. Its been done for a week now and there is no changing it. All have already served their time. The arguments for and against stiffer punishments have all been made several times over.

 

Hopefully the Devs have been paying attention and weighing both sides. Next time this issue pops up, because its an ever changing and evolving video game it WILL pop up, they will take action sooner and more appropriate action. By that I mean somebody who got 2 pieces of loot should NOT receive harsher nor equal punishment for somebody who received 50 pieces, half a billion credits and your first born son.

 

Its done, its over. Lets not push this thread to 100+ of the same thing being repeated ten thousand times hoping they hear us. Wait until the next one happens and see what transpires to push that new thread over 100 and repeat 10 thousand times. At least give them a chance to show they learned something before chastising them for not learning anything.

[CaptRogue]

Well, let me speak to your theory that everything was arbitrary regarding the punishments. It wasn't. At all. Anyone who thinks that simply thinks that they didn't do what THEY wanted. Get over it.

I can tell you one thing though, no matter how much people want to say that it was, it was NOT a random amount of time.

 

Yes, it was a random punishment dished out. lolz You can't tell me it wasn't knowing the people who exploited on my server, and guilds.

The randomness of it though is what baffles me.

I could give you several examples, but last time I stated something half way like it, BW deleted my forum post bc it violated the part of "talking about others punishments" or some crap. lolz Not that I mentioned names, guilds, or even server I was on.

 

If anything it was absolutely random except for extreme offenders. Take for instance me & one of my guildies. He Did this 2 times (HM & SM) on his main & ended up with a 1 day Ban... Pretty much giving him the **** end of the stick... However, I did this countless times, let others in/gave away the lockout, & held the lockout for 2 weeks for my guildies, yet I have not been banned.

 

Interesting how you were allowed to post that about your guildies/friends, but my post was deleted when I mentioned something to that affect.

 

I'll disagree on your first point as to the extreme offenders. The most extreme offender I know of, on my server and anyone who's from my server would agree, was back in game like a 24hr ban ! When others who did far less worse offenses, are still banned atm.

 

sorry but that is incorrect I know a heap of people that were 5/5 and exploited and also got bans ranging from 24hr-168hrs. what ever the logic was they used we will never know same goes for how long each exploiter was banned for but to me non of it makes any sense 1 example was a certain player selling the lockout and made over 100+ million from fleet sales and all they got was 24hrs.

 

I'd be willing to be we are talking about the one & same person drgyruss! That's the biggest shock to me as how that player was not perma banned for the talking/selling they did!!

 

All have already served their time. The arguments for and against stiffer punishments have all been made several times over.

 

Its done, its over. Lets not push this thread to 100+ of the same thing being repeated ten thousand times hoping they hear us. Wait until the next one happens and see what transpires to push that new thread over 100 and repeat 10 thousand times. At least give them a chance to show they learned something before chastising them for not learning anything.

 

Actually no, not all have on my server. There are still people banned & still have a few more days.

Pushing this thread to 100+ is not even an issue. It's surprising it's not been pushed further seeing as how many comments the original post got, and of course the slot machines.

But it's an open forum, we all can discuss- beat the dead horse if you want to call it- till it's 200+ pages. So far most aren't really complaining with the "fire, knives, & pitchforks" other than just, like me, baffled on how they handled it.

 

Give who a chance to show they learned something?? Bioware? Players? Because a lot of the players have stated they'd do it all over again. lolz Some who didn't do it have stated they'd do it because of the simple punishments given. lolz

[Gronkagin]

I still think it's weird that they can punish customers for using a situation THEY created by failing to test, improper coding, etc. I understand it's in the TOS, but I still thinks it's strange, since they control everything about this game world. I think they should give those kids a part time job doing QA for them!

[branmakmuffin]

I still think it's weird that they can punish customers for using a situation THEY created by failing to test, improper coding, etc. I understand it's in the TOS

You just answered your own question. It's their game, their rules. If you don't agree with the rules, either shrug your shoulders and go on about your business or quit playing.

 

Not sure why you think it's weird. All 3 MMOs I have played extensively work like this (which includes TOR).

Edited February 4, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[wainot-keel]

 

Give who a chance to show they learned something?? Bioware? Players? Because a lot of the players have stated they'd do it all over again. lolz Some who didn't do it have stated they'd do it because of the simple punishments given. lolz

 

This.

I've heared more than once "yeah, one day ban, totally worth it." This is the overall impression I feel this whole mess is leaving....

[MissButtercup]

Where are all the people who threatened to quit if they didn't punish the exploiters enough?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all still subbed and playing.

[Max_Killjoy]

It sounds like you are you trying to ask the question "why is it against the rules"?

 

Let me go back to my "game torrent" analogy.

 

Using the Ravagers exploit to gain gear is not dissimilar to software piracy. When you download a game, you made a copy of it. You didn't remove it from the game company's inventory. You didn't prevent someone else from having it. You could say "I wouldn't have bought the game anyway so the company didn't lose money"

 

Do you see the parallel? What's the harm, exactly? Why is software piracy against the rules?

While I feel my last post still stands, I'm 95% sure you won't reply to it.

 

So let me take another stab at it.

 

Did you know that there was once the possibility that using Legacy gear to move mods between alts was an exploit? It wasn't the intended use for the gear. Then we got a yellow post saying, "it's okay"

 

Did you know that the "learn other player's schematics" was once considered an exploit? (Buy mod, put it in gear, take it out, RE)? Then we got a yellow post saying, "it's okay"

 

"It's against the rules" should be enough. If Bioware came in and said "getting gear from the Ravagers lockout is okay", then it's okay. If they say it isn't, then it isn't.

 

What's the big deal?

 

Been very busy this week, but I said I'd respond.

 

While I have some sympathy for the argument that many "pirates" would not have bought the game anyway, and am firmly of the opinion that "content" companies have been nothing but their own worst enemies when it comes to treating their paying customers and potential customers as "criminals until proven otherwise"...

 

At the very least, each copy of the "pirated" software or music or whatever is potential income not made by the entity that legally owns that content. No such argument can be made for the infinite and unsold copies of items taken from an exploited bug like Ravagers. A better parallel to the software would be if someone found a way to infinitely copy and hand out Cartel Market items to anyone in the game who'd give them credits.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Oh for the love of..

!

 

Followed by

!

[Bachannal]

Given their lack of action on it, no. They flat out ignored this. They could have prevented 99% of this by simply removing the loot from the last boss...instead, they did nothing. Because of how absolutely ludicrously they handled this entire fiasco, they should have fallen on the sword on this one and issued a statement about it.

 

I think what they did was fair, don't get me wrong, but I place the fault for this almost entirely on Bioware. 3.0 was sloppy...this is what happens with absolutely shoddy quality control. Old Ops giving Ultimate comms to boot...pfft...the Ravagers was one tiny piece of MANY sloppy things they did.

 

So much this right here.

[Sorwen]

I still think it's weird that they can punish customers for using a situation THEY created by failing to test, improper coding, etc. I understand it's in the TOS, but I still thinks it's strange, since they control everything about this game world. I think they should give those kids a part time job doing QA for them!

This has been a part of MMOs since UO. Sometimes the over all health of the game is more important than losing a few customers that are going to take extreme advantage of the game and risk ruining it for a lot of players.

[nareea]

This has been a part of MMOs since UO. Sometimes the over all health of the game is more important than losing a few customers that are going to take extreme advantage of the game and risk ruining it for a lot of players.

 

How exactly does that and/or does that 'ruin' a game for other players? Not agreeing with exploiting but I am confident Bio shouldn't be throwing away customers based on a silly exploit. 'Bleeding Money' is the term that was used.

[nareea]

So much this right here.

 

Fully agree.

[Max_Killjoy]

Is it National Necromancy Day?

[TUXs]

Is it National Necromancy Day?

Either that or the longer forum bans have finally expired...not sure which.

[branmakmuffin]

Is it National Necromancy Day?

Necro? The last post before today was a week ago.

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[GopherLuV]

Yea a week ago... the exploit is gone, punishment has been dished out.. get over it.. theres no reason to keep this topic alive..

[Mavolio]

get over it.. theres no reason to keep this topic alive..

 

[JabbaWabbA]

I still think it's weird that they can punish customers for using a situation THEY created by failing to test, improper coding, etc. I understand it's in the TOS, but I still thinks it's strange, since they control everything about this game world. I think they should give those kids a part time job doing QA for them!

 

Are you implying that bw intentionally created the bug in order to set up players?