The Contraband Slot Machine

[branmakmuffin]

slot machine, bugged or not, has destroyed the economy of the game

Wow, was that a piece of the sky that just fell on me?

[Kissakias]

1. This is a good thing. Crafters can get materials cheaper, thus everyone can get crafted items cheaper.

2. This is also a good thing. Dark projects will be cheaper, thus everyone can get their dark projects items cheaper.

3. Certs were never hard or expensive to get. You just had to buy cartel packs with real money. Now you don't. Good thing.

4. Sure, but only for this one cartel reputation that is 2 years old and would nowadays cost you a fortune in credits to get by buying embargoed cartel packs off the GTN. So this change is a good thing.

 

Some players adapt and thrive.

Some players don't and whine.

 

Seriously.

I used to make a living from selling Mandalorian Iron back in the day.

Should bioware never have introduced any higher-tier materials just so I could keep making a living that way?

No.

 

You adapt to the market or you are a failure.

 

Oh and btw, people can still make a living from all of what you listed, it's just that they'll have to get used to making less money from that.

If they want to stay at the same level of income, they'll have to adapt.

 

The only ones this is "bad" for is the people who were gouging the market with overinflated prices on mats and crafting.

For the average-joe (or average crafter for that matter) this is a good thing. Prices are going down (and will go up again and stabilize at a reasonable level) and that means more people can afford the good stuff.

 

 

so they need to raise the drop rate in items in the cartel packs

they need to raise the drop rate into the FPs and OPs so all can have a chance to get those speeders, decos, mats,

they need to make all speeders, mounts BoE so all can have a chance to get them

some people really destroyed from this machine as it is.... why? because it fits to your needs?

[OddballEasyEight]

so they need to raise the drop rate in items in the cartel packs

they need to raise the drop rate into the FPs and OPs so all can have a chance to get those speeders, decos, mats,

they need to make all speeders, mounts BoE so all can have a chance to get them

some people really destroyed from this machine as it is.... why? because it fits to your needs?

 

Nobody was destroyed by this machine.

 

Nobody has been ruined by the machine.

 

Sure, some peoples future income may have been lessened, but to claim they have been destroyed is pure hyperbole.

 

We're talking about millionaires that now have a drop in their income.

I don't feel sorry for them.

 

As for the rest of your rant, none of that has any relevance to the post I made.

[Vhaegrant]

Waited for confirmation from BW that the drop rate wasn't an unintended feature and excessive use an exploit before going out and putting down 4 million credits on purchasing a slot machine. Mainly because I'd seen the forum threads So thank you for that confirmation Eric

 

Now that I've been feeding the machine for an hour (500 chips) I have to say I'm fairly happy with the drop rates.

 

It's nice to have the chance to build up reputation with the first Cartel Pack seller without having to spend real cash or vast amounts of credits on the GTN. The rep vendor has been around for two years or thereabouts so you've had your period of exclusivity. One of the only justifications for having a bit of a whinge, but then again I splashed out for the CE edition at launch because it would get 'regular updates'... a head piece and 4 dye packs (2 of which are horrendous) later

 

It's nice to be able to craft for myself without being chained to running multiple gathering missions across multiple characters with long mission times and be held ransom to the fortunes of RNG and the chance of getting a purple return from the mission. If I get any viable missions to run in the first place, with at least half if not more of those available companion gift related.

 

What it really highlights is certain people hold one view for EA and Bioware (corrupt corporation gouging their player base by having the audacity of asking them to pay for a subscription and/or cartel coins for the purchase of cosmetic items that may be sold on to other players on the GTN at dramatically inflated prices) while failing to take into account their own actions as crafters/ gatherers/ cartelpack item sellers of gouging the market for every last credit they can squeeze out of them.

 

Previous to the release of the slot machine I could never justify the exorbitant cost most purple materials or augments were trading for. Personally I've always held the belief items should have an in game cap placed on them in the form of a vendor that will sell it for credits to keep the GTN price gouging in check, it also serves as a credit sink. Players can still run the crew missions but they play the odds against a higher fixed rate credit cost and a low cost random return. In effect the slot machine serves this purpose.

 

The only people hurt by the release of the Contraband Slot machine are those that are seeing their huge profit markups on purple items come tumbling down or unable to sell them on at all because other crafters, like myself, that have till now been unable to afford the luxury of crafting their own purples leave the market altogether.

 

From reading a few such posts it seems to me many of these sore crafter/gatherers have a rather extreme playstyle anyway with hours and hours spent feeding the slot machine. I was bored after the first stack of 99 and found the 65 minutes it took to get through 500 about the limit of my endurance.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Vhaegrant

[branmakmuffin]

The only people hurt by the release of the Contraband Slot machine are those that are seeing their huge profit markups on purple items come tumbling down or unable to sell them on at all because other crafters, like myself, that have till now been unable to afford the luxury of crafting their own purples leave the market altogether.

For me, what it does is allow me to craft purple quality items more often, since I rely on my own characters' mission skills. No way was I going to pay what to me were outrageous prices for purple mats. And now I might actually make some of those Vectron "crafty" speeders.

[JeffrenBrek]

Socialism ftw, Capitalism ftl.

[aeterno]

This seem to be the answer to the large chunk of credits floating around post SOR due to free trainers change.

 

And since there is no reliable way to siphon the money out of the system, the obvious thing to prevent price creep that hurts the general public is to increase the supply side of the equation, hence the machine and lvl 11 mats for jawa junk.

 

If the thing gives out cartel certificates and gets a couple people to buy a crate or two to grind the rep.... cherry on top.

Edited January 17, 2015 by aeterno

[Max_Killjoy]

For me, what it does is allow me to craft purple quality items more often, since I rely on my own characters' mission skills. No way was I going to pay what to me were outrageous prices for purple mats. And now I might actually make some of those Vectron "crafty" speeders.

 

Same here.

 

There's nothing negative about this thing, except for the effect on those who were making a ton of credits off the contrived rarity of certain pixel-stuff.

[ekwalizer]

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

-eric

 

So basically return to status quo where only super rich players, who can afford to constantly purchase Artifact missions, cartel packs or those deeply immersed into conquest will be able to craft purple items? Got it.

 

Eric, the problem is NOT the machines nor their pay-out. The problem is the ultra low rate of return on Gathering missions.

 

Where was all this supposed outrage over Jawa Junk being available in CM Packs? Or from the Conquest system? It didn't exist. This "outrage" is solely from players that are now having their "cornered market" opened up by alternate methods to obtain resources.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ekwalizer

[EnkiduNineEight]

I don't normally attempt to communicate directly with BioWare/EA Employees but there's a first time for everything.

 

Eric,

 

I believe the slot machine rate of return should be looked at but I would like to see you reduce the rate of return overall as presently every pull is functionally a winner. This means the machines are all gravy, and in many ways make them a necessity item and not just a convenience item or fun item.

 

It would be better for the game, long term, to make them more of a currency sink. As you stated in your post these were based on the reception of the nightlife event, but the nightlife event did not give the player as easy a route to convert their winnings to credits (it specifically avoided that) and it was considered a much larger investment as the average user spent over 2,000,000 credits to 'win' the big prize. This reduced currency in the system which was a good inflationary hedge.

 

I would suggest that you could vastly improve these slot machines by lowering the rate of return/wins but _enhancing_ what could be won.

 

Instead of merely providing rep items and crafting materials, (these could remain as 'low tier jackpot returns, perhaps in a greater QTY on a win, to make up for a significant drop in frequency- Maybe a win of 'Scrap' is actually a 'crate' you open with a random number of _all_ the Jawa Scrap, say 3-10 Green, 2-5 Blue, 1-3 purple.. per crate...) add to the slot various 'packs' similar to a grand acquisition pack at several tiers very common, common, rare, very rare, ultra rare with correspondingly low rates of return. The Kingpin Rancor for example was .001 if I recall correctly.

 

These packs would include items from prior cartel shipments (match them up to the slot machine type, so you can have multiple different slots. I know re-using assets is nice, but it may be fun to make the grand jackpot animation different for each one). Each pack contains 1-3 items in the specified rarity group, and this allows players to acquire things from prior cartel packs that are now very rarely on sale. You can still put those on sale but this would provide an alternative method to acquire missed items in a method that is beneficial to the in game economy because the slot machine acts as a money sink. (I know, for example, Not only would I be tempted to play until I fill out my collections 100% I would then be willing to repeat play on other characters just to unlock an item on the character)

 

Presently my own results are 66% of my pulls are actual 'wins'. Each of those wins though has as its value, even at reduce market rates, in excess of the 500 coins the token cost, so instead of losing money, I can make money by playing the slots. As it stand presently I could like win only 25% of the time and still be profitable, though significantly less so.

 

I like the slots, I like the alternative method to gain crafting materials, I would _love_ the slots if they gave me an alternative method to gain past cartel shipment items (again: NEVER the current shipment), I just believe they are less a currency sink then they necessarily should be for the health of the in game economy. The nightlife event was a _very_ excellent inflationary hedge and its rates of return both less frequent and significantly less profitable.

 

Hopefully you see this.

[eartharioch]

Same here.

 

There's nothing negative about this thing, except for the effect on those who were making a ton of credits off the contrived rarity of certain pixel-stuff.

 

There's nothing negative except the negative parts -- that's some pretty deep filosofikashun there. I'm not sure what you mean by "contrived rarity" -- the expansion was released less than two months ago with none of the new [purple] mats available by any means other than running missions; some people ran the missions and, following the basic economics of supply and demand, sold to the people willing and able to pay the most first.

[BuriDogshin]

One nice thing about these machine is that a guild can install a bank of them on their Flagship so that all members can benefit, or a group of friends can set up a bank on a Stronghold that they all have silver keys too. So at least the benefits are not restricted to those with either sufficient real money or sufficient credits to buy the machines themselves.

[TheGreatFrosty]

I seriously hope the Devs are smart enough to not listen to 90% of players in this thread.

 

The machines have broken the current state of the economy, fact. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it simply has.

 

Gathering missions are no longer worth it, especially those such as Treasure Hunting and Underworld Trading.

 

For those saying that only rich players could afford to make money out of the pre-slot machine climate... what are you talking about? It required 2k-3k per mission? Just go slicing and guarantee break even with full affection companions, with the chance of making +80k per mission round.

 

The current system has replaced work with no work. The only players remaining poor before were those too lazy or not bothered about alt switching to control multiple crafts. With these machines, why would anyone take the time to send multiple companions on different alts off to do missions, when the slots are statistically guaranteed to produce better returns...

 

I understand the wish for a different status quo, but what you're really advocating is replacing a system that required some degree of effort with one that requires absolutely none. You are destroying the spirit of crafting in SWTOR. Slot machines should never, ever be the number one way of mat farming... I feel so stupid writing that on an MMO forum.

 

If you thought the mats were expensive before, controlled by certain players, what was stopping you from picking up the craft yourself? Making an alt and having multiple missions running at once? Quite literally nothing other than you were not prepared to do it. Community makes me laugh.

Edited January 17, 2015 by TheGreatFrosty

[Mariojediwookie]

So basically return to status quo where only super rich players, who can afford to constantly purchase Artifact missions, cartel packs or those deeply immersed into conquest will be able to craft purple items? Got it.

 

Eric, the problem is NOT the machines nor their pay-out. The problem is the ultra low rate of return on Gathering missions.

 

Where was all this supposed outrage over Jawa Junk being available in CM Packs? Or from the Conquest system? It didn't exist. This "outrage" is solely from players that are now having their "cornered market" opened up by alternate methods to obtain resources.

 

So you can't afford to level a toon to be your own gather or crafter? Are you saying we bought our way to success?

 

This new combat change has been out for two months and people are whining about the prices. It's called supply and demand people, it was very hard to get the mats and people willing to pay MORE get it first. Sorry, this is how the world works. It's not like everyone went out looking to "steal" your money. People with more credits can pay. When they stop paying, guess what......the prices fall. What you guys want is an instant win button for no work.

[Max_Killjoy]

There's nothing negative except the negative parts -- that's some pretty deep filosofikashun there. I'm not sure what you mean by "contrived rarity" -- the expansion was released less than two months ago with none of the new [purple] mats available by any means other than running missions; some people ran the missions and, following the basic economics of supply and demand, sold to the people willing and able to pay the most first.

 

Spend some time looking into the diamond trade if you want a real-life example of contrived rarity.

 

Within the game, all items are as rare as the devs make them, and that's it. There's absolutely no reason for any crafting mat to be so rare that some of them cost more on GTN than the combined credit reward from the dailies on multiple planets.

[DarthVengeant]

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

-eric

 

The "concern" is only from a small amount of loud and very self centered people who forgot this is a video game. People that only care about how THEY play their game and how THEY earn credits or craft things, and acting like everyone else should do as they did. People that worry more about everyone else's game than their own and minding their own business.

 

Most the general population of the game could give a rip and just want to have fun and play the slot machine without the childish drama we are reading here. I discussed this with my guild (which is one of the top Guild's in the game) and we ALL found these people's rants and tantrums about the slot machine utterly childish.

Edited January 17, 2015 by DarthVengeant

[Theeko]

The "concern" is only from a small amount of loud and very self centered people who forgot this is a video game. People that only care about how THEY play their game and how THEY earn credits or craft things, and acting like everyone else should do as they did. People that worry more about everyone else's game that their own and minding their own business.

 

Most the general population of the game could give a rip and just want to have fun and play the slot machine without the childish drama we are reading here. I discussed this with my guild (which is one of the top Guild's in the game) and we ALL found these people's rants and tantrums about the slot machine utterly childish.

 

Swtor's not just hurting the select "Few" but also itself cause I have seen multiple people that spend real $ on packs are now going to stop buying them because the certs & Rep were exclusive to the packs alone for 2 years, and now that trends gone, so are people buying the packs as well.

[ivanhedgehog]

1. treasure hunting crafting missions before costs 100k, after slot machine cost 9k-10k each

2. dark projects materials cost a lot, after slot machine cost almost nothing with the big drop rate of blue and purple junks

3. all certs was very hard and very expensive to get, now is like doing 10 bounty per hour.

4. rep need many many many packs to reach legend lvl, now just need 5 hours from 0 to legend.

 

slot machine, bugged or not, has destroyed the economy of the game

some players lived from selling mat missions

some players lived a bit from selling OPs mats loot that used in dark projects

some players lived from crafting general

 

1. that is just too bad. but that is just money changing hands between players.

2. so what? ecomonies change..thats just how they work

3. the drop rate on certs is not nearly that high

4. most people already were at legend on that rep.

 

econ is fine

devs have NO place protecting your revenue stream..go do some dailies

get a new job is selling mats isnt enough for you

the devs should not develop the game around your crafting biz. so you cant gouge other players...my heart breaks for you

[ivanhedgehog]

Socialism ftw, Capitalism ftl.

 

when you go back to jr high school on monday, slap your govt teacher. you dont understand economic systems

[Andryah]

I would like to know your basis for the conclusion that this problem does not exist.

 

it exists in every MMO with a credit pool and an active player market.

 

Keep in mind LA, there is a difference between wealth accumulation and actual inflation.

 

Being a player of the GTN on multiple servers (3) I can assure you that there are little signs of actual inflation in the economy.... even though there is increasing wealth across the player base.

 

Now, I grant that this is a little unusual for MMOs with several years of play..... but I think there are some very valid reasons why:

 

1) the Cartel Market items do indeed saturate the market and do keep prices downward on a large volume of items.

2) We do not seem to have the classic MMO mechanics where players demanding rare drops constantly inflate prices they will pay to get them.

3) Even with training costs now removed from the game, there still appears to be plenty of incremental credit sinks in the game in it's current state.

 

I am anti-inflation minded, but I am also anti-deflation minded as well. I really don't think we as players should be proposing things like boosting prices on the slot coins. It's the wrong answer to any need to adjust drop rates from the slots. The drop rates actually look reasonable and are such that players won't easily abandon slots for economic reasons. The only thing that looks like it might be too generous is Jawa Junk drop rates.... but even that may be working as intended at this point (ie: to rebalance the drop blend in the game for green, blue, and purple junk, which appears out of balance in the other ways to gain them).

 

TL;DR don't fix what is not broken.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Apparently, one of the augments I'm used to selling hasn't gone down in price. (Well, it has, but only by like 5K.) I'm selling slowly in groups of five, but thanks to this slot machine, well, I'm about to become very rich indeed. Thanks BW! I'm about to buy me a Vorantikus!

[Andryah]

Midlithe Crystals went from above 40K to 6K -- that's an 85% drop. It's the worst, I believe, but that's well over the 75% I quoted. Doonium is pretty close. Autoimmune Regulators and Adaptive Circuitry wasn't hit as badly percent-wise, but that's because the cost 2x and 3x what the others do.

 

First, just so we're clear, I'm just saying that there was a crash in Grade 11 purple mat prices, I'm not saying that market as a whole will suffer or never recover.

 

There is definitely downward pressure on L11 mats at the moment. but it is in no way a crash, and I'm sorry.. but if you cannot specify what server you play on... nobody is going to take you seriously. On the three servers I play the GTN on, the downward pressure on Midlithe Crystals is pretty consistent (on average about 25-30% at the moment) and nowhere near what you are claiming.

 

I think the Grade 11s should be eliminated from the Jawa vendors because what they do is link the new mat prices with those of the old mats -- if 1 purple buys 1 Berylius or 1 Doonium, you won't stop buying Doonium until it drops to the price of Berylius. Even changing the multiplier is (imo) ineffective, as it still ties the prices, just not at a 1:1 ratio.

 

Nonsense. But.. spoken like a predatory market pricing player.

 

The only thing the vendors do is create a different method to turn in limited quantity junk for limited quantity materials.

[Andryah]

1. that is just too bad. but that is just money changing hands between players.

2. so what? ecomonies change..thats just how they work

3. the drop rate on certs is not nearly that high

4. most people already were at legend on that rep.

 

econ is fine

devs have NO place protecting your revenue stream..go do some dailies

get a new job is selling mats isnt enough for you

the devs should not develop the game around your crafting biz. so you cant gouge other players...my heart breaks for you

 

200% agree.

[Andryah]

1. This is a good thing. Crafters can get materials cheaper, thus everyone can get crafted items cheaper.

2. This is also a good thing. Dark projects will be cheaper, thus everyone can get their dark projects items cheaper.

3. Certs were never hard or expensive to get. You just had to buy cartel packs with real money. Now you don't. Good thing.

4. Sure, but only for this one cartel reputation that is 2 years old and would nowadays cost you a fortune in credits to get by buying embargoed cartel packs off the GTN. So this change is a good thing.

 

Some players adapt and thrive.

Some players don't and whine.

 

Seriously.

I used to make a living from selling Mandalorian Iron back in the day.

Should bioware never have introduced any higher-tier materials just so I could keep making a living that way?

No.

 

You adapt to the market or you are a failure.

 

Oh and btw, people can still make a living from all of what you listed, it's just that they'll have to get used to making less money from that.

If they want to stay at the same level of income, they'll have to adapt.

 

The only ones this is "bad" for is the people who were gouging the market with overinflated prices on mats and crafting.

For the average-joe (or average crafter for that matter) this is a good thing. Prices are going down (and will go up again and stabilize at a reasonable level) and that means more people can afford the good stuff.

 

^^ 200% agree.

 

One thing the slot machines have done for sure is to ignite, and sometimes inflame, certain special interest groups. Then again.. a gentle random breeze in the afternoon is all that it takes to inflame some people.

 

Honestly, I don't see why crafters would QQ about this, nor players who purchase crafted items. The only QQ is from either people who cannot think linearly or are butthurt gatherers who can no longer control a narrow segment of the market.

 

Wait for the real QQ ----> when the pack is embargoed and there are no more slots to be had.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Kourage]

Thanks BioWare, you've ruined the economy. Doonium is just 8k credits now. You made it only cost 1 jawa Junk?! It went for over 30k each just a week ago. It is not worth sending my companion on an Underworld trading mission. It has never been worth sending a companion after Luxury Fabrics, ever. It was already a disgrace that you never once addressed how worthless Luxury fabrics are.

 

The fact is, you NEVER put any thought into the number of anything. Blue crafting materials are and have always been so over abundant that we just sell stacks to a vendor. Why? because you put no thought into what the demand will be and how much you should supply, EVER!

 

Autoimmune Regulators seem to be tougher to get than any other material. I say this because I have a bunch of character with Diplomacy and max affection companions and I vendor stack after stack of Hemostatic Gel with relatively few Autoimmune Regulators to show for it. You made those cost 2 Jawa Junk?! Currently there's a stack of 50 of them for 12.55k per unit or a stack of 2 for 35k, and of course the single one for a billion credits.

 

You don't test anything properly, and you release everything full of bugs and with tons of complaints from your beta testers, which you ignore. Whoever is managing this show need to be replaced ASAP.