The Contraband Slot Machine

[Andryah]

I wonder how my luck is. 99 tokens =

 

• 14 Banned Holovids
  
• 12 Prohibited Medical Supplies
  
• 3 Confiscated Artwork
  
• 15 Scavenged Scrap
  
• 5 Assorted Droid Parts
  
• 12 Jawa Junk
  

 

No Certificates? Should have, on average, 3 of them from a full stack of coins.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[DarthTHC]

No Certificates? Should have, on average, 3 of them from a full stack of coins.

 

Newp. But that's averaging out, I think. Working through 3rd stack now and 4 certs.

[LordArtemis]

You think describing upwards of a 75% price drop in less than 24 hrs as a "crash" is inaccurate and overblown?

Then how do you explain the drop in price? I see no indication of a drop in demand.

 

Perhaps the problem is that we are on different servers? Because on my server the prices have dropped about 20 percent. That's it. And so far, according to the forums, it is about the same on 2 other servers...In fact a few folks posted screenshots to prove it....so I checked. Sure enough, it was accurate.

 

If that happened on your server I expect that is NOT the norm.

 

I don't think you understand what protectionism means.

 

I think that is unlikely.

 

The game allows subscribers to have (by default) 12 characters with three crew skills each. Players can choose any combination (subject to one a restriction of one crafting skill per character) of skills, and the cost to learn skills and schematics was low enough that it could be done on one's first character at launch (now, with no cost for training skills, it is easier). While the cost in credits is low, there is a moderate cost in time.

 

Anybody who wanted to could enter the market at any time with no barriers to entry other than the rules described above. There is no way for players to deny other players access to the missions or the market, and no way for players to enforce any sort of pricing system. Prices were what they were because the expansion was new and a *lot* of people had a *lot* of money and were willing to spend it in order to be the first people to get the gear they wanted and avoid spending the time to farm their own mats and learn the schematics themselves.

 

Prices had already started coming down, and would have continued to do so naturally as the people willing to pay more to get their stuff first got it (reducing demand) and more players leveled up crew skills and learned the schematics (increasing supply). It took 1.5 years for BW to release SoR. There is no *need* for players to get everything (or BiS 186 everything) in the first few weeks. Basic Comm gear is mostly satisfactory (armorings, mods, and offhand barrels/hilts are identical to what can be crafted, and the other stuff are sufficient for running the new SM/HM FPs, SM OPs, and Dailies).

 

Giving the Jawa vendors the ability to sell Grade 11 mats to *anybody* (not just people purchasing SoR) regardless of their choice of crew skills reduces the challenge that BW built into the game by limiting the number of characters and number of crew skills per characters. The supply was not limited because of "protectionist" policies, it was limited because not every player who *could* use the system *chose* to do so, and because the system was designed to allow "X" mats per unit time, and not much time had passed.

 

Protection comes from preserving rarity, unless you contend that those that sell high end mats would not benefit from continued rarity of the mats.

 

This argument has been presented far too many times in the past, and the crash never came. It will not come this time either....high end sellers will find other things to sell, all others will benefit from more abundant materials.

 

Just my view of course.

[Khevar]

I agree, increasing demand would work. I wrote what I did because I was replying to somebody who was only suggesting things that would increase (or not decrease) supply.

Except for the option of raising the price per coin from 500 to 2000.

 

That wouldn't increase supply at all. Most likely it would reduce it, as it would require 4 times the credits to obtain the same mats.

[Andryah]

So what next, a slot that provides all the different commendations, or maybe PVE gear, or even PVP gear, in a way that allows players to bypass the time and effort required to obtain items by participating in those aspects of the game, would that be ok?

 

Exaggerate much?

 

Reminder: we all used to get a free full set of gear at 50.. for simply turning 50. There are other examples where MMOs (not just this one) make previously rare and precious things easier to acquire. Stop conflating.

 

Also... Cartel Packs load the economy with Jawa junk as well... .. and very likely at a greater pace then all the slots being run in all the strongholds.

 

As for this alleged debacle .... it's a trade off. I can now sit in front of a slot machine(s) for hours and mindlessly crank away... OR I can run crew missions, OR ... wait for it.. I can do both. Missions let me play the game and they also yield if I am away from the game as well. Slots DO NOT.

 

Why would I do both? Because one requires that you sit in your Stronghold and play tidily winks with slot machines and the other allows you to queue missions and do other things while they cook-down. And you can do that for as many companions as you have in your legacy, where as the ability to farm the slots requires you not play the rest of the game, and requires time and attention in the confines of your Stronghold.

 

My point? Both ways are acceptable and can and will be used by different players at different times, depending on if they want to actually play the game of just tickle slot machines.

 

Once the shinny goodness wears off on the slots.. and we move through the bubble of mats dumped on the market from player stockpiles (from hoarding leading into 3.0), I expect we will see an equilibrium reached in the player base and the economy between slots vs crew missions.

 

The Only adjustment that appears warranted at this point (based on very good sampling data from players) is that Jawa Junk drop rate needs to be adjusted to be more in line with crew missions results. That is the only thing that is out of sync at the moment.. and frankly it's not clear to me at all that Conquests will not continue to flood the market (but it also consumes in kind.. so even that will probably be a wash).

 

The only long term impact of all of this is that gatherers and mission runners will not be able to easily control the mats market anymore. Which is fine as far as I am concerned.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Except for the option of raising the price per coin from 500 to 2000.

 

That wouldn't increase supply at all. Most likely it would reduce it, as it would require 4 times the credits to obtain the same mats.

 

Thing is... 500 credits has become the established token price for slots... since the beginning of the great Casino-Fest last year.

 

Yeah, they could tinker with it.. but why not just adjust drop rates if Bioware determines that there is an unintended imbalance in the materials market. Much easier to do and much less confusing to the player base.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Protection comes from preserving rarity, unless you contend that those that sell high end mats would not benefit from continued rarity of the mats.

 

This argument has been presented far too many times in the past, and the crash never came. It will not come this time either....high end sellers will find other things to sell, all others will benefit from more abundant materials.

 

Just my view of course.

 

Agreed.

 

We go through some variation of this alleged materials and crafting market crisis after every major patch or expac drops. Things change and anything that is fluid in nature (and server economies in MMOs definitely are fluid in nature).... but it certainly is not the end of the economy in the servers.

 

This stuff almost always sorts itself out in a month or two by simply letting the players and the economy adjust to an equilibrium point again. And we already know Bioware is watching the movement of mats in the game and can/will adjust drop % as needed to keep things working as intended.

 

Working as intended = Bioware definition and assessment.... NOT player definition and assessment.

 

Note to Readers: I am not a crafter and I am not a materials farmer.. so I have no skin in this whatsoever, but common sense from playing years of MMOs still applies.

 

You know what slots really do in this game? They allow crafters to be self-sufficient instead of being at the mercy of materials farmers and it inoculates them from mission drop variables to some degree. In the long run, it's good for everyone.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[eartharioch]

oversupply as in... damn, I have serious competition now?

 

becasue from a perspective of a buyer - we had UNDERsupply before.

when its more profitable to sell mats that to actualy craft? you have an issue here and THAT's what we used to have, it was pretty much more profitable to just sell your purple mats, than do anything with them.

oh sure there were pages of crafted stuff. but how affordable was it really? yeah....

 

I only sold a few purples. I craft things that sell [well] above their component mat cost. And that's the key thing -- I was selling what I made at mostly the speed I was making it and I was fine with that. Any _{character can have three skills, the only reason there was any "undersupply" was because not enough players wanted to use them. Or possibly it was just a perception problem, and people expected to be in BiS 186 right out of the gate and not have to do any of the work for it.}

[eartharioch]

This is an interesting idea.

 

I take it a slot machine can be donated to the guild ship? How much does it cost?

 

I haven't looked into it yet, but I would if the system stays "as is". I thought pretty much everything could be donated, and I'm pretty sure I've heard people talk about it being on their guild ship.

[Jeweledleah]

I only sold a few purples. I craft things that sell [well] above their component mat cost. And that's the key thing -- I was selling what I made at mostly the speed I was making it and I was fine with that. Any _{character can have three skills, the only reason there was any "undersupply" was because not enough players wanted to use them. Or possibly it was just a perception problem, and people expected to be in BiS 186 right out of the gate and not have to do any of the work for it.}

 

_{or more like... majority of people couldn't afford to buy purple stuff at the prices back when materials were so rare. have you seen the disparity between blues and purples?}

 

_{the undersuply was in terms of mats. specifically purple mats. blues and greens are easy and cheap. purples, thanks to extensive rng and extremely limited acquisition were disproportionately rare.}

 

_{with lower prices, more people will be buying purples instead of blues. there are people who report that their crafting profits actualy went up.}

 

_{and btw, 186? is entry level gear. BiS in 186 is laughable. 186 gear right now is what you use in order to be on your way to "working" on getting BiS}

[Jeweledleah]

You know what slots really do in this game? They allow crafters to be self-sufficient instead of being at the mercy of materials farmers and it inoculates them from mission drop variables to some degree. In the long run, it's good for everyone.

 

well... I would say - jawa vendors do that. slots merely provide a third way of getting scrap you can trade at jawa vendors - in addition to random drops in packs and conquest rewards.

 

(they also provide an additional way for people to acquire cartel rep and certificates without having to buy packs - which addresses that old concern of having to buy rep with real money)

[eartharioch]

Except for the option of raising the price per coin from 500 to 2000.

 

That wouldn't increase supply at all. Most likely it would reduce it, as it would require 4 times the credits to obtain the same mats.

 

I said "increase or not decrease" not just "increase". I said that exactly because increasing the cost would (imo) neither increase nor decrease the cost.

 

I'm not saying that *any* price increase wouldn't decrease supply, I think that 2K wouldn't be a high enough barrier. And to be honest, I'd rather not see them change the price because to a point hat would significantly decrease supply, since the other stuff seems reasonably balanced and I think the concept of the machine is a good idea. In fact, if the Jawa vendors didn't have Grade 11 mats, I don't think the Jawa junk would be as much of a problem.

[KingFink]

That feeling when someone has to come and tell everyone that using a cartel market item for its intended purposes is not an exploit.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification! LOL!

[Andryah]

well... I would say - jawa vendors do that. slots merely provide a third way of getting scrap you can trade at jawa vendors - in addition to random drops in packs and conquest rewards.

 

(they also provide an additional way for people to acquire cartel rep and certificates without having to buy packs - which addresses that old concern of having to buy rep with real money)

 

No disagreement.

[eartharioch]

Perhaps the problem is that we are on different servers? Because on my server the prices have dropped about 20 percent. That's it. And so far, according to the forums, it is about the same on 2 other servers...In fact a few folks posted screenshots to prove it....so I checked. Sure enough, it was accurate.

 

If that happened on your server I expect that is NOT the norm.

 

Midlithe Crystals went from above 40K to 6K -- that's an 85% drop. It's the worst, I believe, but that's well over the 75% I quoted. Doonium is pretty close. Autoimmune Regulators and Adaptive Circuitry wasn't hit as badly percent-wise, but that's because the cost 2x and 3x what the others do.

 

Protection comes from preserving rarity, unless you contend that those that sell high end mats would not benefit from continued rarity of the mats.

 

This argument has been presented far too many times in the past, and the crash never came. It will not come this time either....high end sellers will find other things to sell, all others will benefit from more abundant materials.

 

Just my view of course.

 

First, just so we're clear, I'm just saying that there was a crash in Grade 11 purple mat prices, I'm not saying that market as a whole will suffer or never recover.

 

Your mistake is that you are confusing availability and rarity. The mats aren't rare. Anybody can level up a crew skill and start running missions and it doesn't affect anybody else. They are infinitely renewable resources.

 

However, the amount one can generate per unit time is not infinite. Since the servers opened up with nobody having any on Day 1 of Early Access, the amount available for use was zero, but gradually increased as more and more characters began running the missions. With the exception of people destroying things made with the mats (RE, overwriting mods, selling to vendor, whatever), the number of mats either free or bound into a crafted item continues to grow.

 

While at some level (mission time, RNG, etc.) BW controls the rate at which the supply can grow, the real limit is the number of players who level up their crew skills and run missions. Since (initially) the supply was way below demand, the people willing to pay more got served first. That isn't because mat gatherers were hoarding them or conspiring to keep the prices at a certain level, it's just basic supply and demand. At no time did I ever look up any of the Grade 11 purples and not see some for sale. I saw some at ridiculous prices, but you can see that for Silica as well.

 

I think the Grade 11s should be eliminated from the Jawa vendors because what they do is link the new mat prices with those of the old mats -- if 1 purple buys 1 Berylius or 1 Doonium, you won't stop buying Doonium until it drops to the price of Berylius. Even changing the multiplier is (imo) ineffective, as it still ties the prices, just not at a 1:1 ratio.

[LordArtemis]

Thing is... 500 credits has become the established token price for slots... since the beginning of the great Casino-Fest last year.

 

Yeah, they could tinker with it.. but why not just adjust drop rates if Bioware determines that there is an unintended imbalance in the materials market. Much easier to do and much less confusing to the player base.

 

Your probably right, but I would contend that as a credit sink this device could be very effective. Increasing the cost to 2k per but keeping the drops the same would keep the appeal in place and in fact probably make a BETTER credit sink IMO.

[DarthTHC]

Your probably right, but I would contend that as a credit sink this device could be very effective. Increasing the cost to 2k per but keeping the drops the same would keep the appeal in place and in fact probably make a BETTER credit sink IMO.

 

1) Why does the game need a credit drain? Prices on what (non-luxury / non-cosmetic) items are inflating?

 

2) It's not a credit drain if it's not often used, and at 2k the cost of acquisition seems to become too high for them to be used much.

[MaximumOD]

Hey folks,

 

We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it:

• The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged.
  
• It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine.
  
• If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS.
  
• We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!
  

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

-eric

 

So let me get this straight you will possible Nerf a machine you say is working as intended based on the QQ of people that have been ****** me on GTN for years.............. nerf the machine it is the final straw. I love this machine it lets me craft my own stuff without having to bow to price gouging scumbags who farm the GTN non stop seriously Nerf it one little bit I take my family accounts to another Game You company makes me hate star wars more each day I read your forums.

[DarthTHC]

So let me get this straight you will possible Nerf a machine you say is working as intended based on the QQ of people that have been ****** me on GTN for years.............. nerf the machine it is the final straw. I love this machine it lets me craft my own stuff without having to bow to price gouging scumbags who farm the GTN non stop seriously Nerf it one little bit I take my family accounts to another Game You company makes me hate star wars more each day I read your forums.

 

You could have always crafted your own stuff without having to "bow to price gouging scumbags". You just apparently chose not to.

 

Y u mad bro?

[LordArtemis]

1) Why does the game need a credit drain? Prices on what (non-luxury / non-cosmetic) items are inflating?

 

The most simple answer would be to curb inflation.

 

2) It's not a credit drain if it's not often used, and at 2k the cost of acquisition seems to become too high for them to be used much.

 

Fair enough, but I disagree. I think the rewards are more than enticing enough for that price.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Pietrastor]

Nerfing Slot Machine to give the Cartel whales GTN monopoly back again - response in 3 days

 

Underlurker nonsense mess - *thumbleweed*

[DarthTHC]

The most simple answer would be to curb inflation.

 

So we're going to try to solve a problem that doesn't exist but might exist someday? Sounds like a recipe for a problem.

[tomcn]

The slot machines + Jawa vendors are a much better crafting mat minigame than the crew skill missions. The slot machines are fun, interactive, and immersive in the game world.

 

At the present time, the crew skills window is a very slow-paced and boring gambling minigame. Now that we have a better gambling minigame for obtaining crafting mats (the slot machines + Jawa vendors), it's time to reduce the gambling aspect of the crew skill missions.

 

Rich and Bountiful missions should be changed to provide one purple mat, guaranteed (in addition to the blue mats they already provide). If you crit on a Rich or Bountiful mission, you should get more than one purple mat.

 

If the crew skill missions were changed in this way, then the rewards would be more proportional to the slot machines.

Edited January 17, 2015 by tomcn
fix

[LordArtemis]

So we're going to try to solve a problem that doesn't exist but might exist someday? Sounds like a recipe for a problem.

 

I would like to know your basis for the conclusion that this problem does not exist.

 

it exists in every MMO with a credit pool and an active player market.

[Mowermanx]

I would like to know your basis for the conclusion that this problem does not exist.

 

it exists in every MMO with a credit pool and an active player market.

 

I really dont know why you bother to keep talking about it, Eric has spoken, very clearly that they will double check the jawa junk and its effect on the economy, and that's it.

I doubt it will be touched but if they do, it will be to tone the jawa junk down a little and that will be the end of it.

Then in the future, a new pack we will see another machine with different prizes, and somewhere down the track they may do another rep but I don't think we'll see many rep ones too often.

Its the perfect vehicle for a money sink, and top points to BW for implementing it.