The Contraband Slot Machine

[eartharioch]

That would NOT be a death that would be lamented I would expect.

 

But an easy way to fix that is to increase the payout from missions and increase the coin cost to 2k per. Problem solved, still great for crafters AND it is a great credit sink.

 

Again, I have to say....

 

1) Coins at 2k per.

2) Chance of critical return in crew missions increased by 10 percent across the board.

3) Payout of mats in crew missions increased by 50 percent across the board.

4) Reshuffle button for mission display.

 

After all, for base materials you get a FAR HIGHER return simply going out and making scavenging runs on Rishi and Yavin right now due to the fast respawn rates. They beat crew missions hands down.

 

AND crew missions are still appealing to get crafting mats....they are much more expensive on the vendor.

 

And this, IMO, would solve most of the issues, except for the loss of being able to inflate prices for high end mats.

 

Thank you for collecting the worst suggestions into one post. They combine a clear lack of understanding of the basics of supply and demand with the desire to get everything you want on demand.

 

Prices collapsed because of a rapid increase in supply. Your suggestions fail to address this as follows:

1) Increasing the coin cost to 2K will still leave the cost-per-purple below the current market prices. It will still be profitable to play the slots just for the purples.

 

2,3) Increasing the supply is not a solution to an oversupply problem.

 

4) Reducing the time to select your missions, while obviously convenient, will increase the number of missions ran, and thus the supply; this is not a solution to an oversupply problem.

 

The only effective ways to combat the problem are reducing the drop rates, adjusting the Jawa vendor price for Grade 11 mats, and eliminating certain [Grade 11] mats from the vendors. IMO, the latter is the only really effective solution. The solution to an oversupply problem is to reduce supply, not increase it.

[Khevar]

1) Increasing the coin cost to 2K will still leave the cost-per-purple below the current market prices. It will still be profitable to play the slots just for the purples.

It really depends on the sale price of the purples.

 

At 500 per coin, it costs about 2k per jawa junk. So Doonium / Midlithe are 2k each, Autoimmune Regulators are 4k each, and Adaptive Circuitry are 6k each.

 

At 2000 per coin (everything else unchanged), it would make Doonium / Midlithe cost 8k each, Autoimmune Regulators cost 16k each, and Adaptice Circuitry cost 24k each.

 

Would you keep running slots for augment mats at that price? Or would you run crew missions instead?

Edited January 16, 2015 by Khevar

[ptwonline]

The solution to an oversupply problem is to reduce supply, not increase it.

 

The obvious alternative is to increase demand. For example, a new tier of augments halfway through the expansion.

[Jeweledleah]

oversupply as in... damn, I have serious competition now?

 

becasue from a perspective of a buyer - we had UNDERsupply before.

when its more profitable to sell mats that to actualy craft? you have an issue here and THAT's what we used to have, it was pretty much more profitable to just sell your purple mats, than do anything with them.

oh sure there were pages of crafted stuff. but how affordable was it really? yeah....

[Max_Killjoy]

So let me get this straight.

 

Bioware is going to nerf the intended drop rates on the slot machines because a vocal MINORITY are crying about how they cannot make as much money now that people who have the machines have become self sustained in obtaining mats without the need to pay the bull$hit prices many of these people put mats up for or if they so choose, can undercut and threaten their death grip on mat selling via the gtn with the most hyper overreaction ever seen regarding the swtor economy saying the slot machines are breaking it??

 

REALLY???

 

Bioware/Eric, what about the rest of us? What about those of us who use the machines for our own use or our own guild and quietly build up resources for it?

 

I wonder if these same QQ'ers complaining about the slot machines ever complain about the behavior of big businesses or EA themselves. Funny how when it is their in game earning potential being threatened, now they want things their way and have their market be protected just like the big businesses in the real world smashing any small threatening competitor.

 

Taste the irony.........

 

I thought he said that they were going to look at it, not that they were going to change it.

[Max_Killjoy]

All this talk of oversupply and undersupply -- keep in mine that all rarity is contrived in an MMO, much like the real-life diamond market.

[LordArtemis]

Thank you for collecting the worst suggestions into one post.

 

And I thank you for framing exactly what is wrong with the counterargument.

 

They combine a clear lack of understanding of the basics of supply and demand with the desire to get everything you want on demand.

 

Absolute hyperbole presented only to support your inaccurate, uninformed and exaggerated view IMO.

 

Prices collapsed because of a rapid increase in supply. Your suggestions fail to address this as follows:

1) Increasing the coin cost to 2K will still leave the cost-per-purple below the current market prices. It will still be profitable to play the slots just for the purples.

 

2,3) Increasing the supply is not a solution to an oversupply problem.

 

There is no oversupply problem, nor has the market collapsed. So both contentions are not only grossly inaccurate and overblown, again, they are presented to support a logical fallacy, nothing more.

4) Reducing the time to select your missions, while obviously convenient, will increase the number of missions ran, and thus the supply; this is not a solution to an oversupply problem.

 

Again, there is not an oversupply problem in ANY sense of the word.

 

The only effective ways to combat the problem are reducing the drop rates, adjusting the Jawa vendor price for Grade 11 mats, and eliminating certain [Grade 11] mats from the vendors. IMO, the latter is the only really effective solution. The solution to an oversupply problem is to reduce supply, not increase it.

 

That will only serve to preserve high end mat rarity, which is a protectionist move that hurts the entire game, the majority of players AND crafting for the sake of a tiny minority of high end sellers.

 

The abundance of materials will reduce the value of those materials. That is EXACTLY what should happen, period.

[LordArtemis]

It really depends on the sale price of the purples.

 

At 500 per coin, it costs about 2k per jawa junk. So Doonium / Midlithe are 2k each, Autoimmune Regulators are 4k each, and Adaptive Circuitry are 6k each.

 

At 2000 per coin (everything else unchanged), it would make Doonium / Midlithe cost 8k each, Autoimmune Regulators cost 16k each, and Adaptice Circuitry cost 24k each.

 

Would you keep running slots for augment mats at that price? Or would you run crew missions instead?

 

Or, arguably run both because they are approximately equal?

 

Perhaps it is still advantage slot, but not by amount it is now. It is much more equal, all things considered, at the 2000 price point I suggested IMO.

[Transcendent]

..snip...

 

What they shouldn't be is a means to bypass mission skills entirely and render them useless, which is what will happen if changes are not made to either / or / both slots and mission skills.

 

....snip...

 

Essentially mission skills were effectively useless without having first gained missions from slicing. Even with companion affection maxed out and having not to mess around jumping from one instance to another to refresh the missions themselves, they return low rates of purple grade materials for the time / credits spent.

 

Unless you are one of those "I have 20 slicers" players (which I seriously suspect being the ones complaining about the Jawa Junk) then you're effectively slowed to a crawl for crafting. That leads to either inflated pricing due to supply outstripping demand, or being gouged by those with "20 slicers", or being frustrated with an inadequate means of gathering purple mats.

 

Look at the flipside of this for one moment.

 

Players have found prices on the GTN becoming cheaper, they get to gear up quicker, which opens up access to more content for those players. That's got to be a good thing for the community as a whole hasn't it?

 

Also the compounding factors of Conquest players having stored up Jawa rewards for ages waiting for grade 11 materials, after the fact that Conquests have already inflated the market due to demand outstripping supply for Conquest crafting.

 

So no, emphatically NO. The drop rates on the Contraband Slots is absolutely spot on where it needs to be. Do you honestly believe BioWare are going to go in and overhaul the whole crew mission skills to make them return better results? You can't honestly believe that is going to happen can you? Can you?

[Khevar]

Or, arguably run both because they are approximately equal?

They're not equal in terms of price.

 

Under the 2000 credit per coin proposal, the Adaptive Circuitry would cost 24k each on the slots.

 

Running crew missions averages 4k each per Adaptive Circuitry. But it takes much much longer.

 

Honestly, this would seem fair to me. If you want them quickly, run the slots. If you want them cheaply, run the crew missions.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

That will only serve to preserve high end mat rarity, which is a protectionist move that hurts the entire game, the majority of players AND crafting for the sake of a tiny minority of high end sellers.

 

The abundance of materials will reduce the value of those materials. That is EXACTLY what should happen, period.

 

Indeed.

 

As far as I'm concerned, crafting exists to make stuff for my characters, not to make phat stacks.

[LordArtemis]

They're not equal in terms of price.

 

Under the 2000 credit per coin proposal, the Adaptive Circuitry would cost 24k each on the slots.

 

Running crew missions averages 4k each per Adaptive Circuitry. But it takes much much longer.

 

Honestly, this would seem fair to me. If you want them quickly, run the slots. If you want them cheaply, run the crew missions.

 

Yea, that is what I meant....err, sort of anyway. If you look at time as a resource of course. Want it quickly? Pay more for it.

 

What this does do is take away the ability for other players to profit in the way that the slot would....which I do not see as a bad thing. I would rather have the credit sink than support and protect a few high end upper tier material sellers.

Edited January 16, 2015 by LordArtemis

[DawnAskham]

So what next, a slot that provides all the different commendations, or maybe PVE gear, or even PVP gear, in a way that allows players to bypass the time and effort required to obtain items by participating in those aspects of the game, would that be ok?

 

Because some of the people in this thread seem to find no issues with the slots providing G11 purple mats to players in a way which bypasses the need for players to spend the time and effort leveling mission skills and running the associated missions for mats, or to trade with those that do.

 

All I keep hearing are comments such as 'who cares its just crafting' or 'to hell with greedy GTN sellers' and other nonsense trying to justify a decoration which allows players to bypass the time and effort gates which have been in place for obtaining purple mission materials since launch.

 

If Bioware felt materials were in too short supply and at too high a cost, they should have increased mission crit chance, increased mission yield, reduced mission cost, reduced mission time, added additional missions, and any number of other tweaks to the existing mission skills which provides these resources.

 

Anyways, I'm reading into the comments that changes are coming, but right now they probably can't do anything anyway (they couldn't plug an exploit in less than a month), and the last thing they want to do is negatively impact the sale of the new packs.

Edited January 16, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Khevar]

Yea, that is what I meant. If you look at time as a resource of course. Want it quickly? Pay more for it.

 

What this does do is take away the ability for other players to profit in the way that the slot would....which I do not see as a bad thing. I would rather have the credit sink than support and protect a few high end upper tier material sellers.

Sure, that makes sense.

 

My prediction is that the ratio of green/blue/purple will change, however. Someone in another thread pointed out that the cartel packs return mats at a ratio of about 30 greens / 15 blues / 3 purples.

 

I could see them applying these same percentages applying to the slot machines. So instead of 10% green / 10% blue / 10% purple (as we have now), it might be 10% green / 5% blue / 1% purple (or something).

 

On the other hand, they may change nothing. Perhaps we'll find out on Tuesday.

[LordArtemis]

So what next, a slot that provides all the different commendations, or maybe PVE gear, or even PVP gear, in a way that allows players to bypass the time and effort required to obtain items by participating in those aspects of the game, would that be ok?

 

Because some of the people in this thread seem to find no issues with the slots providing G11 purple mats to players in a way which bypasses the need for players to spend the time and effort leveling mission skills and running the associated missions for mats, or to trade with those that do.

 

All I keep hearing are comments such as 'who cares its just crafting' or 'to hell with greedy GTN sellers' and other nonsense trying to justify a decoration which allows players to bypass the time and effort gates which have been in place for obtaining purple mission materials since launch.

 

If Bioware felt materials were in too short supply and at too high a cost, they should have increased mission crit chance, increased mission yield, reduced mission cost, reduced mission time, added additional missions, and any number of other tweaks to the existing mission skills which provides these resources.

 

Anyways, I'm reading into the comments that changes are coming, but right now they probably can't do anything anyway (they couldn't plug an exploit in less than a month), and the last thing they want to do is negatively impact the sale of the new packs.

 

Well, you certainly have a right to feel this way, and one side certainly does not corner the market on all the answers. I would say most do not seem to agree with your view however, at least if thread is any indication. I agree that mats should have never been on this machine in the first place. I would have much rather have seen them come from the proper channels.

Edited February 8, 2015 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

Sure, that makes sense.

 

My prediction is that the ratio of green/blue/purple will change, however. Someone in another thread pointed out that the cartel packs return mats at a ratio of about 30 greens / 15 blues / 3 purples.

 

I could see them applying these same percentages applying to the slot machines. So instead of 10% green / 10% blue / 10% purple (as we have now), it might be 10% green / 5% blue / 1% purple (or something).

 

On the other hand, they may change nothing. Perhaps we'll find out on Tuesday.

 

I would be fine with that. Although I personally think it is a good move to make upper tier mats more accessible in a credit sink sort of way (though I think the sink should be more costly), personally I am more concerned with the rep and certs. The mats are just a bonus IMO. I still think it is foolish to put mats on this machine in the first place, as I have said many times, but if this is how it is to be, so be it.

 

The mats never should have been put on the machine in the first place. They belong in missions and gathering IMO. But I guess I am alone in that view.

Edited February 8, 2015 by LordArtemis

[eartharioch]

It really depends on the sale price of the purples.

 

At 500 per coin, it costs about 2k per jawa junk. So Doonium / Midlithe are 2k each, Autoimmune Regulators are 4k each, and Adaptive Circuitry are 6k each.

 

At 2000 per coin (everything else unchanged), it would make Doonium / Midlithe cost 8k each, Autoimmune Regulators cost 16k each, and Adaptice Circuitry cost 24k each.

 

Would you keep running slots for augment mats at that price? Or would you run crew missions instead?

 

As I said, "at current prices" (with an assumed "on my server"). TBH, I would still run the missions, but it would only be if I happened to be on the appropriate character. I probably wouldn't bother logging in/out on most of my chars just to run mat missions other than slicing. And you have to remember, there are other benefits to running the slots instead of missions (in addition to vendoring rep tokens, green and blue mats can be sold, and cartel certs can be converted to saleable merchandise as well; and, most importantly, I can do this from my Guild Ship and monitor gen chat for PUGs instead of switching between characters).

[Khevar]

I can do this from my Guild Ship and monitor gen chat for PUGs instead of switching between characters).

This is an interesting idea.

 

I take it a slot machine can be donated to the guild ship? How much does it cost?

[PearliLP]

Nice idea bioware, it's the best step for the future to do things the community want

[Jeweledleah]

This is an interesting idea.

 

I take it a slot machine can be donated to the guild ship? How much does it cost?

 

whatever its going for on GTN these days. only things that have a cost to donate are trophies, mounts and things like that.

 

decorations that have a physical, tradable item - need to be donated directly, can't do that out of interface (to clarify - you cannot do it by opening personal decorations interface, selecting item and donating from there. instead, you take an actual decoration item and drag it over to donation window in guild vault.

 

P.S. this is to a different post - back in a day, after game has been out for a while - bioware gave people enough coms to buy a full set of entry gear. in case of pvp - it was litteraly full set of entry gear. just for hitting level 50. right now - you get 298 basic coms solely for finishing forged alliances - and with solo droid you can practically sleep through it.

 

notice that this is all ENTRY LEVEL STUFF

 

god forbid bioware makes entry level stuff more accessible to people.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Khevar]

whatever its going for on GTN these days. only things that have a cost to donate are trophies, mounts and things like that.

Groovy, thanks.

[XiamaraSimi]

P.S. this is to a different post - back in a day, after game has been out for a while - bioware gave people enough coms to buy a full set of entry gear. in case of pvp - it was litteraly full set of entry gear. just for hitting level 50.

 

.

 

I think some if my gatherers still have some of that bluebie gear lol, the cunning eyewear was actually kind if neat looking, black goggles with antennae.

[DarthTHC]

I wonder how my luck is. 99 tokens =

 

• 14 Banned Holovids
  
• 12 Prohibited Medical Supplies
  
• 3 Confiscated Artwork
  
• 15 Scavenged Scrap
  
• 5 Assorted Droid Parts
  
• 12 Jawa Junk
  

[eartharioch]

There is no oversupply problem, nor has the market collapsed. So both contentions are not only grossly inaccurate and overblown, again, they are presented to support a logical fallacy, nothing more.

 

You think describing upwards of a 75% price drop in less than 24 hrs as a "crash" is inaccurate and overblown?

 

Again, there is not an oversupply problem in ANY sense of the word.

Then how do you explain the drop in price? I see no indication of a drop in demand.

 

That will only serve to preserve high end mat rarity, which is a protectionist move that hurts the entire game, the majority of players AND crafting for the sake of a tiny minority of high end sellers.

 

The abundance of materials will reduce the value of those materials. That is EXACTLY what should happen, period.

 

I don't think you understand what protectionism means. The game allows subscribers to have (by default) 12 characters with three crew skills each. Players can choose any combination (subject to one a restriction of one crafting skill per character) of skills, and the cost to learn skills and schematics was low enough that it could be done on one's first character at launch (now, with no cost for training skills, it is easier). While the cost in credits is low, there is a moderate cost in time.

 

Anybody who wanted to could enter the market at any time with no barriers to entry other than the rules described above. There is no way for players to deny other players access to the missions or the market, and no way for players to enforce any sort of pricing system. Prices were what they were because the expansion was new and a *lot* of people had a *lot* of money and were willing to spend it in order to be the first people to get the gear they wanted and avoid spending the time to farm their own mats and learn the schematics themselves.

 

Prices had already started coming down, and would have continued to do so naturally as the people willing to pay more to get their stuff first got it (reducing demand) and more players leveled up crew skills and learned the schematics (increasing supply). It took 1.5 years for BW to release SoR. There is no *need* for players to get everything (or BiS 186 everything) in the first few weeks. Basic Comm gear is mostly satisfactory (armorings, mods, and offhand barrels/hilts are identical to what can be crafted, and the other stuff are sufficient for running the new SM/HM FPs, SM OPs, and Dailies).

 

Giving the Jawa vendors the ability to sell Grade 11 mats to *anybody* (not just people purchasing SoR) regardless of their choice of crew skills reduces the challenge that BW built into the game by limiting the number of characters and number of crew skills per characters. The supply was not limited because of "protectionist" policies, it was limited because not every player who *could* use the system *chose* to do so, and because the system was designed to allow "X" mats per unit time, and not much time had passed.

Edited January 17, 2015 by eartharioch

[eartharioch]

The obvious alternative is to increase demand. For example, a new tier of augments halfway through the expansion.

 

I agree, increasing demand would work. I wrote what I did because I was replying to somebody who was only suggesting things that would increase (or not decrease) supply.