regarding punishment for exploit

[Pagy]

This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes, and the fact that they provided us with a half complete mess of an expansion for our hard earned money. Instead of acting though, they should publicly apologize to every subscriber, bowing so deep that they could kiss the ground. Its probably the biggest insult in gaming in 2014 after Ubisoft when they dookied the bad also.

 

The constant lag, the never ending game braking bugs, the current state of pvp... its blood boiling how none of the developers even acknowledge that theres a huge problem with this expansion. Ability delay... right, thats like the tip of the iceberg.

 

But when theres an exploit, they ride in on their trusty steeds like heroes... give me a break. I hope even more people do the exploit until they fix it, as a payment, to make amends how they screwed us over with 3.0. I cant even think of an instance or a part of the game, which is not bugged, borderline unplayable.

 

So how about get back to work, apologize that this exploit even exist, because frankly, its a perfect example of incompetent, lazy programing and it showcases the biggest problem of this game... the lack of testing by actual people who know what they are doing. I mean how can you explain bugs like the old NiM Content ones? All they had to do is play through the content ONCE to realize its bugged beyond hell... how can you let something slip trough?

 

But no, instead ban 70 percent of your gamer base, strip them down... insult and humiliate them even more. Can we start talking seriously please?

i love this post.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

People who heavily exploited this should log on and find themselves naked of all gear they had including ear, implants and relics. Account wide. Nothing else to it. CBA if someone did it once, people are curious. Heavy abuse = heavy hammer. No bans whatsoever or blocking from content, that's just silly.

 

Yep I'd like to see that sort of action, gear+inventory(including cargo/legacy cargo)+credits = 0 when they logged on with a little CS note to why action was taken and where to dispute it.

 

IMO if someone cheated/exploited in this way then they should have to progress through all their gear again.

[Ferrnitty]

Yep I'd like to see that sort of action, gear+inventory(including cargo/legacy cargo)+credits = 0 when they logged on with a little CS note to why action was taken and where to dispute it.

 

IMO if someone cheated/exploited in this way then they should have to progress through all their gear again.

 

yeah NO thats overkill to the extreme. thats the nuclear option to get rid of ants. worse that should happen is they should be stripped of their illegally gotten gains.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Ferrnitty

[euroDSMtuner]

This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes, and the fact that they provided us with a half complete mess of an expansion for our hard earned money. Instead of acting though, they should publicly apologize to every subscriber, bowing so deep that they could kiss the ground. Its probably the biggest insult in gaming in 2014 after Ubisoft when they dookied the bad also.

 

The constant lag, the never ending game braking bugs, the current state of pvp... its blood boiling how none of the developers even acknowledge that theres a huge problem with this expansion. Ability delay... right, thats like the tip of the iceberg.

 

But when theres an exploit, they ride in on their trusty steeds like heroes... give me a break. I hope even more people do the exploit until they fix it, as a payment, to make amends how they screwed us over with 3.0. I cant even think of an instance or a part of the game, which is not bugged, borderline unplayable.

 

So how about get back to work, apologize that this exploit even exist, because frankly, its a perfect example of incompetent, lazy programing and it showcases the biggest problem of this game... the lack of testing by actual people who know what they are doing. I mean how can you explain bugs like the old NiM Content ones? All they had to do is play through the content ONCE to realize its bugged beyond hell... how can you let something slip trough?

 

But no, instead ban 70 percent of your gamer base, strip them down... insult and humiliate them even more. Can we start talking seriously please?

 

^This. A+

[TACeMossie]

Does anyone think Blizzard would leave something like this in their game for weeks, post on their forums they 'know about it', and then state it will be almost another week before it is fixed?

 

Heck no, it would be quietly hotfixed in hours with rolling restarts.

 

Anyways - main blame and anger should be directed towards Bioware, followed by the guild group that started as patient zero for this outbreak, followed by the people who knowingly transferred it to other servers.

 

Old blizzard, maybe. New Blizzard? Well there was a professional Starcraft 2 tournament back in Wings of Liberty days where a guy glitched some siege tanks off the map, so nothing could hit them while they could ravage the opponents base. It still took 2 weeks for them to remove said bug, though the tourney put a ban on people doing it as a temporary fix.

[Ruskaeth]

Yep I'd like to see that sort of action, gear+inventory(including cargo/legacy cargo)+credits = 0 when they logged on with a little CS note to why action was taken and where to dispute it.

 

IMO if someone cheated/exploited in this way then they should have to progress through all their gear again.

Wiping cargos is a bit extreme? They should not lose non endgame things, just tier 192 and higher items and all modifications account wide. They should be left with credits too (unless they sold a ton of mats, but isn't that a bit tedious for developers to comb through?) because otherwise they are in a pinch to start over. But yeah, this requires a bit of hammering or else exploiters just laugh on the way to the bank.

[Max_Killjoy]

This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes, and the fact that they provided us with a half complete mess of an expansion for our hard earned money. Instead of acting though, they should publicly apologize to every subscriber, bowing so deep that they could kiss the ground. Its probably the biggest insult in gaming in 2014 after Ubisoft when they dookied the bad also.

 

The constant lag, the never ending game braking bugs, the current state of pvp... its blood boiling how none of the developers even acknowledge that theres a huge problem with this expansion. Ability delay... right, thats like the tip of the iceberg.

 

But when theres an exploit, they ride in on their trusty steeds like heroes... give me a break. I hope even more people do the exploit until they fix it, as a payment, to make amends how they screwed us over with 3.0. I cant even think of an instance or a part of the game, which is not bugged, borderline unplayable.

 

So how about get back to work, apologize that this exploit even exist, because frankly, its a perfect example of incompetent, lazy programing and it showcases the biggest problem of this game... the lack of testing by actual people who know what they are doing. I mean how can you explain bugs like the old NiM Content ones? All they had to do is play through the content ONCE to realize its bugged beyond hell... how can you let something slip trough?

 

But no, instead ban 70 percent of your gamer base, strip them down... insult and humiliate them even more. Can we start talking seriously please?

 

DING, we have a winner.

 

On the subject of testing, it's not just Bioware, it's everywhere. I've been dealing with more and more programmers/developers who seem to have no concept of testing before release, they just assume that what they did it going to work and there's no need to test it, despite failure after failure after failure after...

[Theeko]

DING, we have a winner.

 

On the subject of testing, it's not just Bioware, it's everywhere. I've been dealing with more and more programmers/developers who seem to have no concept of testing before release, they just assume that what they did it going to work and there's no need to test it, despite failure after failure after failure after...

 

Cheating in an easy game is hard work

[leehambly]

1) the outrage over this, calling for life time bans, and claiming the exploit ruins the game... molehill -------> mountain

 

2) have timer running to see how much longer before this thread is too deleted, just like every other thread about this subject has been deleted so far

 

If gear didn't count in this game I could agree... but gear is the ONLY thing that counts in this game. There is nothing else to it, its a gear based game - when that goes out of the window, the game goes out the window.

[curulz]

This is not a game, it's a revenue generating unit.

 

Say they take action that leads to x% in lost revenue. If they won't make up the loss with new subscribers or rate increases, it would be a bad business move. They will make a business decision, and no amount of righteous forum rage will impact it.

[Zoidrinali]

This is not a game, it's a revenue generating unit.

 

Say they take action that leads to x% in lost revenue. If they won't make up the loss with new subscribers or rate increases, it would be a bad business move. They will make a business decision, and no amount of righteous forum rage will impact it.

 

But then they'll also factor in the potential costs for future exploiting if they don't take action on this one now. As it's been pointed out, if exploiters can get away with something they'll have even more incentive in the future. Short term and long term is what they look at.

[Jerba]

Old blizzard, maybe. New Blizzard? Well there was a professional Starcraft 2 tournament back in Wings of Liberty days where a guy glitched some siege tanks off the map, so nothing could hit them while they could ravage the opponents base. It still took 2 weeks for them to remove said bug, though the tourney put a ban on people doing it as a temporary fix.

I disagree, just look at WoD's release. They rolled back the player who found a levelling exploit before he even reached level 100, and they put in multiple hotfixes every day post release, all being applied automatically without having to take down the servers. They had some lag issues because they went from 5 million players on one day to 10 million on launch, but other than that, Blizzard does a way better job than Bioware with fixing things.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jerba

[howieloader]

1) the outrage over this, calling for life time bans, and claiming the exploit ruins the game... molehill -------> mountain

 

This thread is hilarious... I'm having fun reading...

[joshis]

So they update the game on the 13th, which will then be 28 days since the last update, the first thing they do is ban people / punish people who did it, i can see them losing 50% of there player base and then from a lack of people playing the game they will then lose even more players who did not exploit.

 

I know some people who will remain anonymous, that have done it but before they did they had a 6 piece not including the chest piece, should they then be punished for exploiting when for the first 2 weeks of the expansion the said boss would drop no loot at all, biowares reaction was to have us submit a ticket and they would then hand the loot out randomly, we had one player who has not raided for 8 months but filled in for a guy get the good piece.

 

Solution - Dont ban people move on, fix your game which should still be on the pts, EVERY SINGLE THING WRONG WITH THIS GAME CURRENTLY WAS REPORTED ON THE PTS.

 

Or another solution - Ban all above good raiders on harbinger, shadowlands, Pot5, bastion etc, just dont forget Bioware, those raiders are the ones who pay your bills, not the free to play scrubs that are complaining.

Edited January 8, 2015 by joshis

[jubakumbi]

Not one of the posters here has any proof of the 70% and 3/4+ numbers for players that used the exploit. If you do, please share with the class.

 

While I fully agree the possibility exists for players that used the exploit to be given spots in groups over those that did not due to better gear, that sort of elitist thinking would be there even if said players had a single piece gained through legal means.

 

As for not wanting to play with cheaters, you might want to eschew MMOs and other online games altogether. Joining random groups in online games has always posed such 'risks'.

 

Based on what we do know about how many resources can be leveraged to track down the players that did benefit from the exploit, I would prefer those resources be used for other purposes that help every player, rather than being used for revenge.

 

Having known people that used exploits in other MMOs, I can say they come from all walks of life. You cannot say that they are a particular type of person. I have seen very honest people in RL use such things.

 

Personally, in MMOs when such things occur, I simply look at it as the 'fickle gods' of the particular universe manipulating the inhabitants. Weird things happen.

 

What I do not do is allow myself to become upset over such things, any more than I become upset over someone else finding a loophole in the tax code to get a new car.

 

So, as previous posters, I have now voiced my opinion so Bioware has another data point from it's subscribing player base.

[curulz]

But then they'll also factor in the potential costs for future exploiting if they don't take action on this one now. As it's been pointed out, if exploiters can get away with something they'll have even more incentive in the future. Short term and long term is what they look at.

 

Exploits are not a financial cost.

 

Think about the other issue with a certain NiM boss. Wide spread, well known and went on for ages. What costs did BW incur from that?

[EnkiduNineEight]

These so called 'exploits" (bugs) happen in games and should be hotfixed by the game or the instance shut down immediately rather than letting them go on for 3+ weeks and then threatening 3/4+ of the pop with action.

 

The Nefra *bug* went on for many months before they threw in a fix. It's just too tempting to have your guild ask you to partake an then see hundreds of people running in and out of the instance doing the deed without joining in.

 

They should just fix it and learn from previous mistakes. And yes, I did complete the instance with my group before I heard of this bug. Bosses down legally hehe.

 

3/4ths of the population exploited? I think not.

 

Also, I guess if you were around during a riot you would just join in the fightin and the lootin because its really hard not to because people you know are already doing it?

 

People who knowingly engage in wrongful behavior get punished.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Remove any and all gear acquired through this exploit, simple as that. That to me seems about as fair as it can get. No perma bans or lockout from raids. BW screwed up, and is pinning the blame on the gamers. If you create an environment where players can achieve something through easier means... they will take it! Path of least resistance kind of thing. So, the blame here should be shared and the punishment be the removal of ill acquired gear.

[Dorial]

Having bugs in the game does not mean that you have to use them to cheat. Ppl freely exploiting them becouse nothing were done against that kind of behavior in the past. About time to change that...

[Citruzz]

Remove any and all gear acquired through this exploit, simple as that. That to me seems about as fair as it can get. No perma bans or lockout from raids. BW screwed up, and is pinning the blame on the gamers. If you create an environment where players can achieve something through easier means... they will take it! Path of least resistance kind of thing. So, the blame here should be shared and the punishment be the removal of ill acquired gear.

 

just reset the gear to the state before using the exploit. this includes every item that is received without using the exploit as well. it's easier to handle.

[Theeko]

Remove any and all gear acquired through this exploit, simple as that. That to me seems about as fair as it can get. No perma bans or lockout from raids. BW screwed up, and is pinning the blame on the gamers. If you create an environment where players can achieve something through easier means... they will take it! Path of least resistance kind of thing. So, the blame here should be shared and the punishment be the removal of ill acquired gear.

 

Has to have some kind of punishment as well or else it will just happen again and again.

[branmakmuffin]

This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes

They are owning up to it. Did you not read Eric Musco's post, linked in the OP?

 

Has to have some kind of punishment as well or else it will just happen again and again.

Use of exploits by some players will always happen again and again. In every game. And for all the hand-wringing, TOR is just a game. If BWEA's response to an exploits bothers you enough, quit playing. If you are not willing to do that, obviously you're not that bothered by the whole affair.

Edited January 8, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Jojomagro]

This thread is hilarious... I'm having fun reading...

 

It is quite hilarious. The amount of eye for an eye punishments being suggested is staggering. Someone once said something about those types of things iirc.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jojomagro
sounded weird

[PifferPuff]

Wow.

 

I must be one of the minority here who have no idea what this "exploit" is all about - much less how it works.

 

> brb - Googling...

.

.

 

Okay. Now that I'm little more educated on more or less what it is - and what the exploiters can gain from it, it makes so much sense now why I've been seeing so many DPS's running around with like 55K - 60K HPs so early in the expansion's life-cycle - while I'm still in my low 40Ks with my lvl 58 blues. I actually thought that this would've been some kind of PvP exploit. I'm very surprised that it is PvE... And, with such an impact on the new expected gear levels, and the game's economy too.

 

I was holding off doing any of the new ops until BW fixed them, as I had heard that they were bugged and resulted in non-completion for some. And here, I was just starting to grind out the coms for the minimum required gear to start doing the new SMs. LOL. This exploit makes that entire effort a complete farce.

 

I mean, with this being so widespread, the new minimum gear check will be... what? 198 gear?! 55K or more HPs - or you get kicked from a f***in' SM group?! Da f*k... Really?! ...Just Wow.

 

I usually play a tank or healer for raids, but was looking to get into DPS for once. And, here I just started to get into Sorc DPS and healing too, and have been grooming it for ops runs. Well, I guess I can scrap that idea now. It looks like I'll have to put raiding off until the next major expansion with level 65 for any of that.

 

 

If it's true that like 3/4 of the raiding subscriber base has done this (knowingly or not), then the only option I could reasonably see is two-fold:

1) Reduce the exploiters' coms to 0 (per offending toon), and credits to 0 (server-wide).

2) Grant Non-cheaters full 198 gear sets in their mail for all of their toons - just to remain competitive with all the exploiters.

 

I can't see how BW would be able to remove their gear: it would be very difficult and time-consuming to do. Banning a massive chunk of their paying population wouldn't be feasible either: their shareholders would crucify them (I've read that BW could lose $1,000,000 / month in revenue). I can't see BW doling out harsher penalties than having all their coms and credits taken away: BW really can't really afford to piss off their players too much. Credits and coms can be earned again, and fairly quickly too, but it will retard the exploiters' progress by about as long as they have been exploiting (3 - 4 weeks). They'd still have their gear, but... idk.

 

I don't envy the task that Eric Musco or any of the devs are facing right now. Having to put out an oil fire with water never ends well.

Edited January 8, 2015 by PifferPuff

[LordArtemis]

I am still unclear as to what it was, but if it was related to a certain part of the game (I will not mention which part, not sure if I can without getting in trouble, rather be safe) it is likely that I did not participate in that type of gameplay.

 

So I feel I would not deserve any kind of reward, nor would I seek one. But I am certainly not against rewards for other folks...that would be fine by me.