regarding punishment for exploit

[NSStember]

A simple suggestion for something that could be done in addition to whatever suspensions/bans are incoming due to the exploit addressed earlier today by the devs.

 

Give something fun and exclusive to players who have not used the exploit. A color crystal or a mount, I don't know what specifically and it doesn't matter too much really. The point is to positively reinforce people who chose not to exploit. Give them something special that anyone who exploited cannot get.

 

Take it from a parent... positive reenforcement beats negative reenforcement every day I support this suggestion.

[ballmatt]

What exploit are y'all talking about?

[LanceCorporalDan]

No. The hypothetical ban would because they violated the ToS in general. The gear removal would be from what they actually did.

 

But if we're being real here, nobody will probably get banned. EA can't afford to lose subscribers. If the exploiters do get banned it'll probably just be a "slap on the wrist" duration like 3 or 7 days. Short enough that they don't lose a lot of subscribers, but long enough to say they actually did something about it.

 

I suppose you are right on that account.

[DawnAskham]

There is no way of saying who has gained what and how., I myself am selling and trading 192 hilts and barrels for mats and I have acquired those and the mats 100% legally. After a while when you craft, you get critical hits and you get doubles.

 

What developers really should do is following: Change the purple exotic material when current HM tier 198 becomes craftable to something else than what people might have now gained by exploiting the bug. Introduce a new material to drop from HMs when NiMs are released. That should fix one of the long term effects of this sithstorms.

 

So much this.

 

I have a lot of characters and used alts and legacy gear to learn a bunch of main hand hilts and barrels by RE'ing commendation off-hands, as well as ran a lot of early week alt runs to get materials and more items to learn (never got the elusive resolve hilt though RE quite a few).

 

I'll trade mats for items all day as the crits allow me to gain extras to use for my characters and friends, as well as to sell for extra credits.

 

It isn't my job to police where other players obtain their materials, that is BIoware's responsibility.

 

I agree the short term solution is to just fix the damn bug and move on, then implement a new material at the point 198 items are available to craft.

[g_land]

Even if they didn't hot fix it, a simple statement three weeks ago in the dev tracker saying bioware was aware and that action would be taken against anyone utilizing the exploit would have gone a long way towards resolving the issue. The real issue from their side is how the lack of communication that they have perpetuated for the last year is seriously detrimental to the game.

 

Exploits need to at least be acknowledged and addressed in some way rather than pretending like their heads are in the cloud and merely having mods remove references to them from the forums.

[GopherLuV]

I see a whole lot of talk about removing the gear but do your REALLY think thats possible? There are MANY of us who have 192 BiS gear from legit runs in the operations... The 198 gear is something else which, sure go ahead try to remove it, but there are also people who have downed some HM content to get some of this gear.

 

I just have to say if I were to log in and see my min/max 192 toon that i've been working my *** off on (tons of alt runs and funneling of gear to the one toon) i would immediately cancel my sub and delete my chars... I did not work my *** off downing SM content for weeks just to watch it disappear because there was an exploit that allowed a lot of 192 gear to be had... I'm sure a whole lot of other players who have worked to down the rather difficult SM content so they can get some nice 192 stuff would be a bit pissed to watch it all fade away as well..

[TUXs]

Christmas I guess? People -- even Bioware employees -- are entitled to spend some time with their families and what not, aren't they?

 

Plus, 99% of the people -- or close to it -- who took advantage of this unintended "feature" were SURELY AWARE it wasn't working as intended. The fact it wasn't immediately hotfixed upon discovery doesn't mean they were giving a pass for people to go for it.

 

Ah! The 3-week Christmas vacation they have? I find it funny that my school aged children only get 2-weeks off, but whatever. Do you spend 3-weeks with relatives?!

 

The fact that they haven't done anything is absolutely 100% on them. If they're willing to lose subs over it, they should have been willing to pay someone to change the loot tables weeks ago.

[Foambreaker]

I assume the only people disturbed by it are -- possibly -- the same ones who took advantage of such unintended "feature".

 

Regardless, I'm with the OP.

 

No doubt

[Quraswren]

Let me get this straight -- you'd rather see the end of SWTOR than see "too little punishment" of the people who took advantage of this bug?

 

You bet. If it can't be played with at least some sense of - cheating and exploiting will not be tolerated, I'd rather see the doors shut.

 

When cheating or exploiting is involved, Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should in a video game or sport. Cheating should be dealt with harshly. Otherwise, why even play.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Quraswren

[Darth_Wicked]

A simple suggestion for something that could be done in addition to whatever suspensions/bans are incoming due to the exploit addressed earlier today by the devs.

 

Give something fun and exclusive to players who have not used the exploit. A color crystal or a mount, I don't know what specifically and it doesn't matter too much really. The point is to positively reinforce people who chose not to exploit. Give them something special that anyone who exploited cannot get.

 

I don't agree to be honest.

 

I was aware the unintended "feature" was just that: something 100% unintended.

 

As such, I chose NOT to take advantage of it, just like many other people. However, I did so because it would be wrong, NOT because I expected Bioware to turn all generous on me on the long run.

 

Again, people should do the right thing out of their volition, NOT in hopes of getting something shiny around the corner, whether it is digital crap or something more, hmmmm, "meaningful".

Edited January 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[TUXs]

If bans are handed out, then I hope they're handed out in a fair way in order to include those guilds who may be considered friends of Bioware employees that exploited these bugs to the fullest. Wouldn't really be fair to play favorites here, right Musco

Uh huh....hit the nail on the head with this one.

[Foambreaker]

Ah! The 3-week Christmas vacation they have? I find it funny that my school aged children only get 2-weeks off, but whatever. Do you spend 3-weeks with relatives?!

 

The fact that they haven't done anything is absolutely 100% on them. If they're willing to lose subs over it, they should have been willing to pay someone to change the loot tables weeks ago.

 

If they do nothing the people who progression raid and didn't use the exploit will leave, so they are losing subs either way.

 

I find it funny that these exploiters think their measly dollars matter

[well]

Bioware hasn't had any credibility since Mac Walters and Casey Hudson were allowed to take a massive **** and sell it to the public as Mass Effect 3... Get real...

 

Wait! No! Choices matter. Ok that was meant as your choice to buy it and their choice not to back up their hype.

I have a lot more faith in SWTOR folks then any others. I never will buy a ME and really hesitant to buy DA:I.

As far as the ban well that is up to SWTOR naturally. I wont have heart burn one way or another.

[leehambly]

Ah, well, if I was buying those mods or gear I would probably avoid doing so until this is resolved.

 

Indeed, my suggestion is to steer clear until its resolved.

 

When they banned people due to the BtL CM exploit - I never knew the exact details - was it selling CM generated crystals to vendors or something like that? But yeah, they do ban people for this kind of thing - I've been lead to believe there is a thorough audit trail on all game items, so I don't know why people think this fails into the unknown! The reason I know this? They were a little over-zealous and banned a few too many people due to some innocent, similar activity... if any of you remember that? Anyone, anyone? They've got the tools, its all about intention now.

 

So, best to steer well clear of any criteria they will be using to identify the activity. And yeah, your guess is as good as mine as to what exactly that might be! Idk, if you have to think twice, don't do it?? Does that work?

[DawnAskham]

I was under the impression it only drops off the final bosses in 8M HM, but if that's incorrect then that would be more plausible, though we have no guilds that have cleared the HM content even on 8M and very few lockouts where they've cleared any HM content at all.

 

It drops from the last boss of each operation on 16M SM (which IMO it shouldn't but whatever), while it supposedly drops rarely from 8M HM bosses (I haven't seen any drop on those I've killed, though others say they have), along with16M HM.

Edited January 8, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Darth_Wicked]

Ah! The 3-week Christmas vacation they have? I find it funny that my school aged children only get 2-weeks off, but whatever. Do you spend 3-weeks with relatives?!

 

What they do is none of your business, last I checked.

 

If their employer allows them to have 3-weeks off, good for them.

 

The fact that they haven't done anything is absolutely 100% on them. If they're willing to lose subs over it, they should have been willing to pay someone to change the loot tables weeks ago.

 

Again, 99% of the people who took advantage of such unintended "feature" were surely aware that wasn't working as intended. Period.

 

Regardless, it's fun seeing some potential suspects squirming and what not. I feel no sympathy.

[dscount]

Ya... another thread...

I agree that gear should be stripped, but bans for those that abused/sold the crap out of this exploit.

 

One of TWO things should have happened (IMHO) when this was originally reported (Pre-Xmas Holiday)

1) Instant rollback of the patch that created the problem or HOTFIX to mitigate immediately.

2) Operation in question (Exploit) LOCKED out to everyone - pending resolution.

 

I agree that folks shouldn't have gear they didn't earn, but lets put some common sense around this issue. They can't even give us missing gear from operations after 1-2 weeks with screen shots, videos and log file review. How in the world are they going to recover HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of pieces of gear that got exploited and likely had mod/enh moved around? Not even going to fathom how the mats tracking would work. Heck I bought at least 10+ of the new Grade 11 MMG's... will those be removed cause I benefited from someone else exploiting? (I mean I paid good money to an exploiter, but got a great price).

[leihn]

It drops from the last boss of each operation on 16M SM (which IMO it shouldn't but whatever), while it supposedly drops rarely from 8M HM bosses (I haven't seen any drop on those I've killed, though others say they have).

 

That seems much more reasonable then, I imagine many guilds have done 16M SM on this server to explain the presence of those items

[g_land]

It drops from the last boss of each operation on 16M SM (which IMO it shouldn't but whatever), while it supposedly drops rarely from 8M HM bosses (I haven't seen any drop on those I've killed, though others say they have).

 

It also drops from 8 sm revan

[Kianabamin]

I don't agree to be honest.

 

I was aware the unintended "feature" was just that: something 100% unintended.

 

As such, I chose NOT to take advantage of it, just like may other people. However, I did so because it would be wrong, NOT because I expected Bioware to turn all generous on me, on the long run.

 

Again, people should do the right thing out of their volition, NOT in hopes of getting something shiny around the corner, whether it is digital crap or something more, hmmmm, "meaningful".

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't need to get a reward for not being a cheat. I already got my reward. Dignity.

[howieloader]

Wait! No! Choices matter. Ok that was meant as your choice to buy it and their choice not to back up their hype.

I have a lot more faith in SWTOR folks then any others. I never will buy a ME and really hesitant to buy DA:I.

As far as the ban well that is up to SWTOR naturally. I wont have heart burn one way or another.

 

Mass Effect 4 already has a release date, afaik... I mean, that they think that is going to sell is the pinnacle of narcissism or total cluelessness...

[DawnAskham]

That seems much more reasonable then, I imagine many guilds have done 16M SM on this server to explain the presence of those items

 

And possibly like mine and several I know - ran alt runs of the last boss in Temple specifically to get mats and MH tokens to try and RE resolve hits (though RNGesus hates me- haven't been successful at all).

Edited January 8, 2015 by DawnAskham

[wadecounty]

I was under the impression it only drops off the final bosses in 8M HM, but if that's incorrect then that would be more plausible, though we have no guilds that have cleared the HM content even on 8M and very few lockouts where they've cleared any HM content at all.

 

I was under the same impression.

 

I can say for a fact that no guilds on the Ebon Hawk have cleared either operation in 8m HM, and yet an abundance of 192 material has popped up on the GTN lately. The sellers are characters nobody has ever heard of, unguilded, and their only HM clear is Coratanni. So... I'd say its safe to say if you're on the Ebon Hawk, ANYTHING dealing with 192 gear was obtained via the exploit, and I'd steer clear of it.

[Andryah]

I see that vigilante justice is alive and well inside the MMO community.

 

I certainly do not condone use of exploits in any MMO.

 

That said.... I guess the posters here are absent any understanding of history when it comes to actions against exploiters. For instance, improper ban actions that have to get reversed manually by CS.... because any game wide action net will be programmatic in nature and may cause false positives.

 

Active penalties (ban, equipment claw-back, etc) is a two edged sword, so rather then all the player pontificating in the discussion.... I am going to let Bioware do their work and decide how they fix it and what if any penalties they levy.

 

Why? Because one thing I have observed over the years is that when an MMO applies penalties it generally hurts more people then it helps. It causes many claims of false actions (right or wrong is immaterial), which churns up as much (or more) "negative credibility" feelings with players about the dev team. I have seen it time and time again in MMOs... where some players will claim they did nothing wrong and were wrongly actioned. And again.. it matters not if the claims are real or contrived... because other players will use it as an opportunity to attack the credibility and ethics of the devs.

 

TL;DR exploitable content is a fact of life in MMOs, because some players are unethical and will cheat their way through anything and everything. Yes, a company should close such exploits as quickly as possible, and take appropriate actions with respect to exploiters. BUT... BUT... there is no way for us as players to prosecute a remedy, and regardless of what the devs do/don't-do they are going to get attacked for it by some players.

 

Also... keep in mind... it is none of our business as individual players what Bioware does/does-not do in the form of actions upon any identified offenders. Read your EULA.... the company has sole discretion of how they handle violations, and they do not make their actions public other then to make broad generalized statements.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Andryah

[Darth_Wicked]

Mass Effect 4 already has a release date, afaik... I mean, that they think that is going to sell is the pinnacle of narcissism or total cluelessness...

 

People have short memory for the most part.

 

Plus, if you push aside some strange design choices, in addition to the last fifteen minutes or so, it was a solid release.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, Casey Hudson left Bioware last August or so. Given the good things he did for the company, it's a shame the ending for ME3 seems to overshadow them completely.