regarding punishment for exploit

[branmakmuffin]

I can't see how BW would be able to remove their gear: it would be very difficult and time-consuming to do. Banning a massive chunk of their paying population wouldn't be feasible either: their shareholders would crucify them

Allowing use of exploits to go "unpunished" is bad for a game's reputation and therefore its health and therefore its bottom line. In any event, the number of players is, I am certain, nothing close to a "massive chunk."

 

(I've read that BW could lose $1,000,000 / month in revenue).

Read it where? Some random dude's twitter?

[Theeko]

They're making up #'s cause they're defending the exploiters Edited January 8, 2015 by Theeko

[gentleblade]

In my MMO experience the worst that happens to people that make use of these kinds of exploits is they get the ill gotten gains removed but are otherwise no worse for wear for having exploited the system. At best, they get to keep some of it. Which is more and more often the case. Same with WoW, STO and several others.

[Quraswren]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7930312#edit7930312

 

Glad action is being taken, however I recognise that BW cannot afford to ban a host of players (especially if they are subscribers). So how about one of the following solutions:

 

- Provide a higher rated set of gear to all accounts that did not use the exploit (BOA naturally)

 

- Prevent those accounts that did use the exploit from accessing new Raid content when it is released for a period of 3 months.

 

Should have the desired effect.

 

There is no action being taken other then fixing the bug the mistake BW made. There was no loot dropping and BW went in and "fixed" it but at the same time broke loot lockouts and how it was dropped. In comes exploit.

 

Not one single gamer is going to be banned over this. Let me put it this way. Check out your top guilds on your server and who is clearing HM content. While this worked in both watch your best HM content clearing gamers. The exploit lockout that came from HM had to come from someone and few guilds are actually clearly HM at this time. None of those gamers will be banned and those HM lockout had to come from somewhere in the upper end of gamers because very few are currently clearing HM. They will be playing after next Tuesday.

 

You would be able to watch and see if they got banned. They will not be. There not going to be punished for 3 months much less 3 days. There will be no lasting repercussions for exploiting SWTOR.

 

There isn't going to be a server roll back because that hurts to many that didn't have a clue about it.

 

The only thing you will see is some PR BS about how it was know about and how it was kept an eye on and how BW is going to fix it but there will be no real or lasting punishments for exploiting SWTOR and those that have been doing it work weeks as well as numerous times per toon for gear and mats.

 

All those 37 hilts and barrels on the GTN aren't getting made from normally acquired high end mats. It's exploited mats. All the recent 37 armorings and mods and enhancements that are showing up. Many are from that exploit. Those accounts will not be banned. Hell, I would be shocked if all that happened was BW changed their names to make it look like they disappeared to give the appearance someone was removed and action was taken against them.

 

We'll know next Tuesday though.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Quraswren

[PifferPuff]

Allowing use of exploits to go "unpunished" is bad for a game's reputation and therefore its health and therefore its bottom line. In any event, the number of players is, I am certain, nothing close to a "massive chunk."

 

 

Read it where? Some random dude's twitter?

Found it on reddit. They didn't go into specifics of how - just the what.

 

 

They're making up #'s cause they're defending the exploiters

You're probably right. Only BW knows for sure.

 

 

In any case, It just sucks that the gear gap is now at such a crippling high hurdle, that would take an honest gamer months to accumulate all the Ultimate coms, just to gear one toon, just to get to where everyone else is -- but without any set bonuses.

[Pagy]

no win scenario...

they either dont ban people and non-exploiters rage, or

they ban exploiters and they rage

 

*popcorn*

 

i'd be impressed if they do ban people, i mean it would require a pretty deep investigation and they cant even ban credit spammers after the same people spam fleet for days. not to mention all of the CSR tickets open given all of the bugs in the game to sort out.

[Transcendent]

The simple way to view it is this.

 

Implementing a ban on players who have abused something is unrealistic, and would harm revenues for the game. Equally removing the gear from the players (including legacy) is also not an easy solution to implement.

 

So the simpler solution is to make anything like this fruitless in it's gains. Release a different set of token gear that has better stat balances across the board, as well as different set bonuses. Make the old crafting materials obsolete (yes BioWare can easily do this) which also stops the old Armour / Mods / Enhancements / Barrels being crafted, and then release new crafting materials for the new Armour / Mods / Enhancements which have a better stat balance.

 

Raiders get a new set of BiS gear and set bonus to chase, crafters get a reset, and the balance gets restored.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Transcendent

[curulz]

 

If it's true that like 3/4 of the raiding subscriber base has done this (knowingly or not), then the only option I could reasonably see is two-fold:

1) Reduce the exploiters' coms to 0 (per offending toon), and credits to 0 (server-wide).

2) Grant Non-cheaters full 198 gear sets in their mail for all of their toons - just to remain competitive with all the exploiters.

 

.

 

Strip people of coms and credits and give others a full set of BIS gear? That's some reasoning! I think you need to set your sights a little lower, something like nothing major will happen to anyone who used the exploit, and nothing will be granted to those that didn't.

[LadyVix]

I think they could perma ban all offenders and be just fine, but that's just my opinion. And it's not related to my suggestion.

 

I just think there should be some positive reinforcement for non offenders alongside whatever punishment they deem appropriate.

 

I can agree with that. Losing a handful of raiders on Harbinger may actually improve server population issues.

 

Despite knowing it was wrong, people did this for personal gain. They need to feel the consequence of their actions, and then be reminded of it everytime they see a player with an "exclusive" item acquired for simply doing the right thing.

[Quraswren]

People who heavily exploited this should log on and find themselves naked of all gear they had including ear, implants and relics. Account wide. Nothing else to it. CBA if someone did it once, people are curious. Heavy abuse = heavy hammer. No bans whatsoever or blocking from content, that's just silly.

 

IF they did that they would also have to wipe their most recent level of professions. Many of those new 37 hilts, barrels, armorings, mods and enhancements came from ill-gotten gains.

[PifferPuff]

The simple way to view it is this.

 

Implementing a ban on players who have abused the exploit is unrealistic, and would harm revenues for the game. Equally removing the gear from the players (including legacy) is also not an easy solution to implement.

 

So the simpler solution is to make the exploit fruitless in it's gains. Release a different set of token gear that has better stat balances across the board, as well as different set bonuses. Make the old crafting materials obsolete (yes BioWare can easily do this) which also stops the old Armour / Mods / Enhancements / Barrels being crafted, and then release new crafting materials for the new Armour / Mods / Enhancements which have a better stat balance.

 

Raiders get a new set of BiS gear and set bonus to chase, crafters get a reset, and the balance gets restored.

That's a better idea, but how can they do all of that in a week? Upgrade all the gear, and update all the ops and FPs, et al?

Edited January 8, 2015 by PifferPuff

[leihn]

That's a better idea, but how can they do all of that in a week: upgrade all the gear, and update all the pps and FPs, et al?

 

They cant and they wont,

[Jerba]

Not one single gamer is going to be banned over this. Let me put it this way. Check out your top guilds on your server and who is clearing HM content. While this worked in both watch your best HM content clearing gamers. The exploit lockout that came from HM had to come from someone and few guilds are actually clearly HM at this time. None of those gamers will be banned and those HM lockout had to come from somewhere in the upper end of gamers because very few are currently clearing HM. They will be playing after next Tuesday.

Don't be so quick to blame that guild. They already said that they were tricked by friends from another guild into giving away their lockout. They themselves did not exploit and only later realized what had happened. If anyone is to blame, it is that other guild, because they then went on and sold the lockout for credits and made no secret about the exploit.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jerba

[Foambreaker]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7930312#edit7930312

 

Glad action is being taken, however I recognise that BW cannot afford to ban a host of players (especially if they are subscribers). So how about one of the following solutions:

 

- Provide a higher rated set of gear to all accounts that did not use the exploit (BOA naturally)

 

- Prevent those accounts that did use the exploit from accessing new Raid content when it is released for a period of 3 months.

 

Should have the desired effect.

 

Nope ban them and good riddance.

[Pagy]

i predict, at most, 24hr-3 day bans...so bw can say they did something about it and players will take their lumps and keep subbing. tho i wouldnt be surprised if no one is punished.

 

i imagine there will be exceptions for people reported in game for making hundreds of millions off it, which will probably be managed by the CSR/GM group separately.

[nevenavasovic]

You know what will happen? Exactly nothing. They'll "fix" the exploit... somewhat, create a few more bugs along the way and the players who've done it won't be punished. And they should't be. When BW fixes all the spam mail I keep getting on every single toon I have, ability delays, server lag and so on, I will accept the idea of ban/gear removal and whatever the rest think is a appropriate punishment. Edited January 8, 2015 by nevenavasovic

[quantez]

I REALLY don't know what the fuss is all about.

 

First let me state that i haven't done any ops in 3.0, i don't even know exactly what the BUG is about. Yes, a bug, not an exploit. But why are people falling all over eachother because BW failed once again?

 

Yes there is a bug and yes apparantly people have made extra comms / achievements because of it. But does that hurt the people who didnt know about the bug?

 

No.

 

I can see if guilds are going for world / server first, this may be a thing. But dont you think any progression guild didnt know about this bug? Ofcourse they all know about it, so there is your even playingfield.

 

So why all the complaining?

 

Instead of BW threatening with bans, they should apologize for all the bugs, lag, complete lack of communication since 3.0 and, this is purely my opinion, the lousy x-pack they call 3.0 with little pve content and no pvp content at all.

 

This bug doesnt affect me, but the minute BW throws around bans because of exploiting the PvE bug OR the Pvp bug, i cancel my sub that has been ongoing since launch. And no, you cannot have my stuff. And why? Because it is a smack in the face of a loyal paying customer to blame the paying customer for the complete and utter **** they call 3.0.

 

And btw, IF BW things exploiting this bug is a big deal, they should have put up a patch ASAP and not wait until tuesday

Edited January 8, 2015 by quantez

[Theeko]

You know what will happen? Exactly nothing. They'll "fix" the exploit... somewhat, create a few more bugs along the way and the players who've done it won't be punished. And they should't be. When BW fixes all the spam mail I keep getting on every single toon I have, ability delays, server lag and so on, I will accept the idea of ban/gear removal and whatever the rest think is a appropriate punishment.

 

Defender of Exploiters is fun

[ivanhedgehog]

People who heavily exploited this should log on and find themselves naked of all gear they had including ear, implants and relics. Account wide. Nothing else to it. CBA if someone did it once, people are curious. Heavy abuse = heavy hammer. No bans whatsoever or blocking from content, that's just silly.

 

thats a great way for the dev team to become unemployed. losing that many subs in 1 block would seriously hurt the bottom line.

[kysan]

This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes, and the fact that they provided us with a half complete mess of an expansion for our hard earned money. Instead of acting though, they should publicly apologize to every subscriber, bowing so deep that they could kiss the ground. Its probably the biggest insult in gaming in 2014 after Ubisoft when they dookied the bad also.

 

The constant lag, the never ending game braking bugs, the current state of pvp... its blood boiling how none of the developers even acknowledge that theres a huge problem with this expansion. Ability delay... right, thats like the tip of the iceberg.

 

But when theres an exploit, they ride in on their trusty steeds like heroes... give me a break. I hope even more people do the exploit until they fix it, as a payment, to make amends how they screwed us over with 3.0. I cant even think of an instance or a part of the game, which is not bugged, borderline unplayable.

 

So how about get back to work, apologize that this exploit even exist, because frankly, its a perfect example of incompetent, lazy programing and it showcases the biggest problem of this game... the lack of testing by actual people who know what they are doing. I mean how can you explain bugs like the old NiM Content ones? All they had to do is play through the content ONCE to realize its bugged beyond hell... how can you let something slip trough?

 

But no, instead ban 70 percent of your gamer base, strip them down... insult and humiliate them even more. Can we start talking seriously please?

 

Nice point of view, don't forget the dev team responsibility.

 

IMO a good punishment lvldown all infractors to lvl 1, the exploit is and advantage of endgame, let them waste their time lvl up all their characters again .

[Theeko]

thats a great way for the dev team to become unemployed. losing that many subs in 1 block would seriously hurt the bottom line.

 

Doubt even 3% of the total population meant to exploit tbh

[g_land]

Wow.

Okay. Now that I'm little more educated on more or less what it is - and what the exploiters can gain from it, it makes so much sense now why I've been seeing so many DPS's running around with like 55K - 60K HPs so early in the expansion's life-cycle - while I'm still in my low 40Ks with my lvl 58 blues. I actually thought that this would've been some kind of PvP exploit. I'm very surprised that it is PvE... And, with such an impact on the new expected gear levels, and the game's economy too.

 

This is called the glut of comms people had from the 3.0 comms conversion lol

[Jerba]

I can see if guilds are going for world / server first, this may be a thing. But dont you think any progression guild didnt know about this bug? Ofcourse they all know about it, so there is your even playingfield.

This won't even the playerfield. True progression guilds take pride in following the ToS and tell their members to not exploit. Any guild found exploiting is removed from the progression list.

If Bioware would have said, everyone could exploit because it's too late to take action, then yes I could agree with you, but there are still guilds that knew about the exploit and did not abuse it. Those guilds should not be at a disadvantage because they felt the need to follow the ToS.

[Eleonosis]

Wow.

 

I must be one of the minority here who have no idea what this "exploit" is all about - much less how it works.

 

> brb - Googling...

.

.

 

Okay. Now that I'm little more educated on more or less what it is - and what the exploiters can gain from it, it makes so much sense now why I've been seeing so many DPS's running around with like 55K - 60K HPs so early in the expansion's life-cycle - while I'm still in my low 40Ks with my lvl 58 blues. I actually thought that this would've been some kind of PvP exploit. I'm very surprised that it is PvE... And, with such an impact on the new expected gear levels, and the game's economy too.

 

.

 

So you are not educated. My main is merc, I'm running in mixed 198/192 comm gear fully augmented with 3 192 pieces from ops tokens and I have 53.4k hp (full 186 with 186 relics and few augments I had ~46k hp). And guess what, my whole gear is achieved in legal way - so don't judge by hp - this is silly because comm gear has high endurance mods, every single 186 augment gives you 340 hp.

 

New opses are doable in 8m, yes Underlurker is very hard and I doubt that there was succesfull PUG run who beat him, Bulo can be PUG killer too, but Ravages are easy in 8SM guild run. I'm not pugging on may main, but I're tried 16m Ravages with PUGs few times on alts and never beed kicked because I'm just in full 186 gear. So you rather should gear up (srlsy, basic comms are dropping everywhere) find guild and start doing new ops.

 

I agree there must be some punishment for that, but it's also BW fault they were waiting soooooo long do look at this exploit, that there are many ppl who tried it now. Few bans wouldn't be a problem, but banning big numbers of endgame players will be game killer.

[grombrinda]

Welp...just like the Nefra bug, I saw no bans over it. Do you realise how many people used that bug? You didn't use it? That's great!...But trust me when I say LOTS of people used this bug. And a lot of those people were or are from top guilds.

Bioware ,from their own statements, seemed to be aware of the mistake and have been waiting on a fix.

Read the part where they say they usually keep quiet. So they basically are to blame for this, due to rushing their own product out without proper testing. See what they could have done since maybe after the first week is not make rhose ops playable until they had a fix in place, instead they let it continue. Meanwhile on "our end" we have weeks worth of lag, bugs, and glitches that is not getting attention from them (devs) other than a , "we are looking into it" response.

You not getting lag? GREAT!...But that does not mean the problem does not exist....I get bad ability delay on Yavin..and other spots as well. You try the open boss raid on Yavin yet? Then you know what I am talking about.

 

This is not in any way defending exploiting, but rather a look at why this is happening. Why things should be tested on test server with a lot more time than say a few weeks..and immediate action as soon as it starts happening.

 

Yet again maybe they just don't have the manpower any more to catch this sort of thing.

 

Any ways..they should have just shut the ops down..asap..when this happened.