Just spent around 50k at the trainer for skills that I already earned.

[Heezdedjim]

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

Thanks for looking into it, Eric.

 

Even if it was intended to some extent, you really ought to think about some sort of grace period where you back all the costs out to zero or 1 credit or something, since there was no warning at all about old or renamed skills having to be bought again. You want people to accept and embrace the new system, and paying for old stuff makes it feel like it was just an excuse for a gratuitous ripoff or double dipping.

 

Leveling up a brand new character from nothing, yeah, I get it. New skills from 56 to 60, sure. But paying again for stuff we already had on a current level 55 character, either in its old form or a slightly reskinned one, just . . . no.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Heezdedjim

[Andryah]

I love the new discipline system. I hate this paying for skills nonsense. I think this is something that we can all agree on, whether you love or hate disciplines. Stupid credit sink is stupid.

 

While I have not logged into every class yet, I have done Guardian, Trooper, and a Gunslinger. The Gunslinger had less then 10K in training costs, which is a nitt. Guardian was about 35K, and the Trooper is probably the most (I have not yet set the discipline) so I don't know on that one yet.

 

Is it as surprise to see training costs on a 55? Yeah... but for a 55... anything under 100K is mice nutz IMO. Annoying?... perhaps. Big trauma drama? Not at all.

 

The only fault I put on Bioware is in not presenting and explaining this up front so people do not get surprised by it. Then again.... if they did disclose it in the patch notes (or earlier)... people are still going to complain. So, it's probably a no win for them here.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Andryah

[Jadescythe]

While I have not logged into every class yet, I have done Guardian, Trooper, and a Gunslinger. The Gunslinger had less then 10K in training costs, which is a nitt. Guardian was about 35K, and the Trooper is probably the most (I have not yet set the discipline) so I don't know on that one yet.

 

Is it as surprise to see training costs on a 55? Yeah... but for a 55... anything under 100K is mice nutz IMO. Annoying?... perhaps. Big trauma drama? Not at all.

 

The only fault I put on Bioware is in not presenting and explaining this up front so people do not get surprised by it. Then again.... if they did disclose it in the patch notes (or earlier)... people are still going to complain. So, it's probably a no win for them here.

 

I think people are complaining more so over things like interrupts having to be retrained. Or Force Lift. I've always paid for new abilities and have no issue doing so in the future, but these are bugs that should not be present after testing.

[Vairden]

Hey folks,

 

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

 

-eric

 

Thank you Eric, for listening and looking into this. And just to move this from another post on the topic, I have some totals that I kept based on the first 3 characters I logged into today. I kept track, just because it seemed odd, and others were complaining about this in general chat when I logged in. This is what I spent to "re-buy" the abilities on those three:

 

Gunnery Commando = 146,720 credits

Seer Sage = 29,030 credits

Defense Guardian = 48,495 credits

 

All 3 characters have been the listed spec since creation, which was a few years ago in all three cases. They've all been max level for over a year, and they were fully trained and geared.

[LordArtemis]

Hey folks,

 

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

 

-eric

 

Thank you Mr Musco.

 

Free ability training. Embrace it.

[Deewe]

Even if it's stuff that was in the tree skill before, I don't think it's fair to suddenly charge credits for them because you changed the whole system around. I'll be interested to find out how refunds will work once this is fixed.

^ This.

 

Why the heck do we have to pay for training when you are the ones obliging us to respec?

We did not request this change.

 

That's totally lame and business wise stupid too.

[LordArtemis]

The only fault I put on Bioware is in not presenting and explaining this up front so people do not get surprised by it. Then again.... if they did disclose it in the patch notes (or earlier)... people are still going to complain. So, it's probably a no win for them here.

 

You know me well enough Andryah that, had they done this, I would be willing to accept it. Naturally I will have to accept it if I want to play, but for now I am a bit perturbed by it.

[Zoom_VI]

Thank you Eric, for listening and looking into this. And just to move this from another post on the topic, I have some totals that I kept based on the first 3 characters I logged into today. I kept track, just because it seemed odd, and others were complaining about this in general chat when I logged in. This is what I spent to "re-buy" the abilities on those three:

 

Gunnery Commando = 146,720 credits

Seer Sage = 29,030 credits

Defense Guardian = 48,495 credits

 

All 3 characters have been the listed spec since creation, which was a few years ago in all three cases. They've all been max level for over a year, and they were fully trained and geared.

 

I just did my mercencary and didn't have to retrain anything. The only stuff I had to buy was Kolto Infusion since that was a new baseline skill.

[Jherad]

I just did my mercencary and didn't have to retrain anything. The only stuff I had to buy was Kolto Infusion since that was a new baseline skill.

 

Yeah the problem seems to be mostly on the pub side. The imp mirrors are (I think) largerly working as intended. Or as I'd expect them to be intended at least.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jherad

[Glzmo]

Gee, 25k-50k per character to learn skills we already trained before the patch? That's up to 1.1 million credits for my 22 characters! How the heck should I get that to even be able to start playing again? Each of my characters has ~2000 credits tops. The training costs really need to be reduced. I don't want to have to grind dailies for days just to be able to buy all abilities for level 55 and likely then some for abilities up to 60 just to be able to start the story.

By the way, it seems you guys forgot to done down extraction costs for mods with the level cap increase this time.

 

Update: And I've just seen the costs to just be able to train crafting skills higher than 450! 50k per skill! That's 150k per character! 150000 * 22 = 3300000 Credits for all 22 characters on the server! And buying new crafrting skills isn't evne included! Insane! Not everyone is ripping off people, exploiting credits exploits and going to credit sales sites, you know! This Expansion sucks. All costs need to be reduced significantly so the poorer players can also enjoy the game, not just the filthy rich ones! If you had at least added chat bubbles you've been promising for almost three years now, I might have just been able to stomache it, but not like this. Way to shaft your loyal subscribers, Bioware!

Edited December 3, 2014 by Glzmo

[Tyious]

I sent around 2mil credits on new ranks from 55- 60, that not counting on the credits i got for rewards or junk sold to vendor.... this is a HUGE credit sink

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, I guess between this nonsense and the new Spoonfed skill system, there's no point in even starting the game up tonight.

[TravelersWay]

Hey folks,

 

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

 

-eric

 

It certainly is:

I have only looked on my level 48 Jedi Shadow but the following skills are coming up as needing training again, even though I already had them unlocked (I was fully trained up at that point prior to the patch):

 

Force Lift (level 4 skill)

Technique Mastery (level 15 skill)

Whirling Blow - Rank 3 (level 28 skill)

Force Synergy (level 28 skill)

Applied Force (level 35 skill)

[jediknightcub]

This is NOT okay. On my main Jedi Guardian, I had Freezing Force all the way up to full rank. Now I have to pay for it again? Not cool.

 

I picked the same discipline as my old skill tree. I tried to pick all the old powers I had, or at least tried to closely approximate what I had before because I don't want to have to re-learn how to play this character (even though that looks like its going to be an inevitability). I still had to pay.

 

Suggested fix from Bioware: Abilities should be free up to the level the character was at the launch of 3.0. Or make them all free for everyone for the next week or two, so this looks like an oversight and not some blatant credit sink.

[Anach]

This isn't cool. If I have to pay to train new abilities between 55-60, fair enough, but having to re-purchase abilities at 55 should be free.

[Deewe]

Things I'm expecting from BioWare on Skills:

.

1. Skills at your existing level before patch should be free, whatever how many times you respect and whatever the specializations chosen
   
2. Refund on paid training
   
3. For further levels once you paid a skill to a specific level you will never again pay for that skill and level even if you switch specs.
   

 

P.S.: honestly missing (or ignoring) such a bug/feature before going live looks very bad.

[ebado]

While I have not logged into every class yet, I have done Guardian, Trooper, and a Gunslinger. The Gunslinger had less then 10K in training costs, which is a nitt. Guardian was about 35K, and the Trooper is probably the most (I have not yet set the discipline) so I don't know on that one yet.

 

Is it as surprise to see training costs on a 55? Yeah... but for a 55... anything under 100K is mice nutz IMO. Annoying?... perhaps. Big trauma drama? Not at all.

 

The only fault I put on Bioware is in not presenting and explaining this up front so people do not get surprised by it. Then again.... if they did disclose it in the patch notes (or earlier)... people are still going to complain. So, it's probably a no win for them here.

 

Do you feel this way in regard to base class abilities that were already trained, like Force Lift and Charged Bolts?

 

I'm not sure why that should be considered expected behavior.

[dcaleb]

I didn't run into this problem, so either you guys are running into a bug or I got lucky and experienced an awesome bug that saved me from a stupid feature

[ebado]

I didn't run into this problem, so either you guys are running into a bug or I got lucky and experienced an awesome bug that saved me from a stupid feature

 

It's different for every advanced class. Even mirrors aren't treated the same (for instance Commandos have to train more than Mercs). Maybe you just play a fairly unaffected AC.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ebado

[Andryah]

Do you feel this way in regard to base class abilities that were already trained, like Force Lift and Charged Bolts?

 

I'm not sure why that should be considered expected behavior.

 

Sorry, but I simply cannot get worked up over modest character costs after an expac drops. Pretty much every MMO I have ever played has presented players with additional costs with the drop of an expac. The way incremental costs deploy varies by MMO.. ..but they all raise the cost bar to players on an expac release.

 

In the grand scheme of the game, this is mice fodder. They could have done a better job of communicating and informing the players.. but that's about it.

[Darev]

I'm sure I saved WAY more credits with speed leveling a ton of alts to 55 over the last few weeks ( zero credit skills from the skill trainer ) that I'm not terribly worried about this at this point.

 

Especially if Bioware looks at it and makes an adjustment.

 

 

You don't HAVE to train every toon in the advanced stuff on day 1.

[mdahm]

Hey folks,

 

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

 

-eric

 

Please also take a closer look at the huge class-related differences when re-buying the abilities.

I have 9 lvl 55 toons. While I had to re-train (and buy for) about two or three things in some classes (e.g. powertech), I had to buy about 10 to 15 things when i logged into my commando healer. The reason wasn't just the pure amount of different abilites, but also that some of them had up to three or four ranks I had to re-buy. Some of them really expensive (I remember one for around 28k or more).

That's not funny.

[Hunterr]

Ya i just had to pay for and train more skills on my Gunnery commando than I did for my Arsenal Merc which is the exact same skills and build....

[LordArtemis]

I am just going to respec, then wait to purchase the new skills when they straighten this out.

 

But for now I'm going to take a break from the game for a few days. Let the irritation die down a bit before I pick it up. This really set me off I have to admit.

[ndursinger]

I am just going to respec, then wait to purchase the new skills when they straighten this out.

 

But for now I'm going to take a break from the game for a few days. Let the irritation die down a bit before I pick it up. This really set me off I have to admit.

 

I'm with you on this. ...

 

Last night when I logged out, I had 8 fully functioning level 55 characters. Now I have 8 unplayable toons that require that I shell out non-possessed credits to purchase to get even close to what I had before. The reasoning behind this is unknown to me because logical reasoning was obviously not used. If we are to be charged for new/ replaced abilities then we MUST be refunded what has been taken away.

 

I would say that there may be hope but recently I purchased this expansion with the 12xp so all I would have to do is class quests....the problem was that the bean counter that sanctioned the exp points for the sorcerer didn't compensate properly and I found myself doing ALL of the class stories as stated necessary for advancement yet found myself ,due to their poor exp point management, at level 48 in my class missions with a character possessing only a level 45 ability I notified them in a ticket of their gross miscalculations and within 12 hours received a reply "We are sorry for your inconvenience,feel free to do some SIDEQUESTS to advance your character". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the damned reason "WHY" i got 12xp to begin with?!?!?! to NOT have to do the sidequests?

 

Apparently, logic and common sense is in short supply lately:rolleyes: