The Most Lifeless Universe....

[HavenAE]

If you can look past the heavily layered "Themepark" not "MMO" aspect, the above additional issues contribute to the negative over-all feel to the gameas well...

 

There is a chance to turn the game around but I'd like to add I'm an impatient player and "The same ole' Same Ole'" wears thin quickly.

 

I suspect this applies to many gamers today.

 

If you're an impatient gamer, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment when it comes to MMOs.

 

This is the entire problem why many games fail at launch. They don't realize that even the great MMOs started at a point that was less than perfect and they expect everything NOW NOW NOW.

 

Because NO ONE can offer fixes and changes NOW NOW NOW, people get fed up, because they are irrationally impatient and the game fails because all of these ridiculous impatient people leave and go back to whatever.

 

This is the main reason why no MMO has met any kind of real success post WoW.

 

This is the real reason why I dislike WoW. Despite it's success, it really destroyed MMO gaming because it brought in multitudes of children young AND old.

 

Look at Rift, it's added so much content and implemented so many changes and fixes since it's launch that it should be a very popular, successful game. But thanks to bonehead players do didn't have their demands met NOW NOW NOW, it'll never be what it could have.

 

 

No MMO launches perfectly, NO MMO has everything you want it in from launch. Nothing happens overnight and sometimes things are worth waiting for.

 

Impatience isn't something you can have in MMO-land and be happy with anything.

[DarthDolemite]

If you're an impatient gamer, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment when it comes to MMOs.

 

This is the entire problem why many games fail at launch. They don't realize that even the great MMOs started at a point that was less than perfect and they expect everything NOW NOW NOW.

 

Because NO ONE can offer fixes and changes NOW NOW NOW, people get fed up, because they are irrationally impatient and the game fails because all of these ridiculous impatient people leave and go back to whatever.

 

This is the main reason why no MMO has met any kind of real success post WoW.

 

This is the real reason why I dislike WoW. Despite it's success, it really destroyed MMO gaming because it brought in multitudes of children young AND old.

 

Look at Rift, it's added so much content and implemented so many changes and fixes since it's launch that it should be a very popular, successful game. But thanks to bonehead players do didn't have their demands met NOW NOW NOW, it'll never be what it could have.

 

 

No MMO launches perfectly, NO MMO has everything you want it in from launch. Nothing happens overnight and sometimes things are worth waiting for.

 

Impatience isn't something you can have in MMO-land and be happy with anything.

 

Not true as long as the game has something to hook the player while they make improvements.

SWTOR dosent do anything innovative to hook the player. Moving lips on quests isnt enough.

[MaceTowani]

Not true as long as the game has something to hook the player while they make improvements.

SWTOR dosent do anything innovative to hook the player. Moving lips on quests isnt enough.

 

Sorry but this game isn't for you. It's obvious by your post and I would kindly ask you to excuse yourself from the forums if all you're going to do is troll the gameplay that TOR has.

[Dreossk]

Lifeless is really what stands out when you play this game. BW needs to add a couple of hundreds of NPC walking around on places like Coruscant, Nar Shaddaa, Kaas City, etc as well as dozens of vehicles flying by. Quest givers must have animations and they must move in the vicinity and do other things instead of just waiting for you. They could use a computer, go talk to someone else or check their datapad.

 

They also critically need to add day/night cycle and modify the schedule of the NPC so that during the evening and night, cantinas contain more NPC and streets are less crowded.

 

For a hundred millions dollars MMO from the biggest gaming company and the biggest IP, what they did is really not impressive.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Dreossk

[BigBadEdward]

I posted some similar sentiments in Beta and got roundly slammed for it. That doesn't change the fact that most of the planets don't feel like planets, they have the relative size of an abandoned Walmart.

[Enako]

The whole game is linear.

 

<- Already lv50 SI Sorc Healer.

 

There is absolutely no reason to go back to any of the planets.

* Hopefully they expand them and add RvR into the game.

 

was there any reason in wow to go back to goldshire apart from rping ? or to redridge, apart from ganking ?

[Grecanis]

I was about to agree with TS, but then I had some flashbacks of sitting on my speeder bike in SWG sifting through endless amounts of useless, unoccupied, or abandoned land. I loved that game, but TOR is on to something here.

 

Unoccupied, abandoned land that players were allowed to do something with. Certainly not useless

 

I prefer a sandbox but can still enjoy myself in a themepark. I'll give BW some time to cultivate the game further before I begin complaining.

 

oh ...SWG had the best crafting in any game I've played. This doesn't come close.

[LeSamourai]

Honestly it's just your server, or you are already level 30+ and not many people are around there.

 

I went into the newbie zones on my server (both sides on a High Cap server) and it said there were ~ 90 on Empire and ~50 Republic.

 

Hopped on the only US Heavy Cap server atm, and the newbie zones there had ~170 Empire and ~110 Republic.

 

Fleets had damn near 200 on both sides...however, once you hit Nar Shadda it drops pretty dramatically. I was seeing ~60 on Empire and ~20-30 on Republic.

 

Tattoine is even worse atm on my server, roughly ~30 Empire and hardly any Republic.

 

 

 

As you can see, most people are in the under 20 range; just give it some time and things will even out; or re-roll on a new server for that epic MMO feel (because honestly, they have TOO many servers now, and most have barely any players)

[HavenAE]

Not true as long as the game has something to hook the player while they make improvements.

SWTOR dosent do anything innovative to hook the player. Moving lips on quests isnt enough.

 

 

A game doesn't have to be innovative to be fun and hook people.

 

And beyond that very few people, if anyone can give a decent example of what ground breaking innovation they think expect in a new MMO.

 

You all say you want something new and innovative but offer no suggestions on what that innovation might be.

 

Simple truth is none of you know what you want, you just don't want more of the same which is really all the MMO genre has been for well over 13 years.

 

We've seen small steps in different areas that is all.

 

and after everything has been said and done, if a game has this then all of a sudden you all want that. and when a game has that then all of a sudden you all want this. It's never ending battle of un-achievable phantom expectations.

 

I know I know GW2 will answer all prayers right? Except it won't. It'll consist of the exact same thing every other game has, the only difference is you will have it presented to you by a method of smoke and mirrors. They'll call it something different, they'll show it to you from a different angle, but in truth it'll just be more of the same.

 

Why because that's the way MMOs are.

 

You can have destructible environments, climbable terrain, fully voiced quests, collison detection, and so forth and so on, but at the end of the day the base game will always be the same as every other game's base.

 

Why because every innovation that has come this way is a fad. They are neat novel ideas but they get old and forgotten quick. So we always go back to the basics and we come to the point where you log on, you do quests that require you to collect x, go to y, or kill z and you'll do it over and over until you're bored to tears (even if it doesn't seem like you are). Then you'll reach the level cap and you'll grind content for gear and glory only to have it all replaced 2-6 months later and rinse and repeat.

 

 

Unless that next game is sand-boxed in which case it's just a different type of treadmill, it'll be an elliptical instead of a tread climber. But one thing is certain, there's no total gym out there in the near future.

 

 

I think its clear that some people have a clarity of understand on what MMOs are and some do not. Those that do understand are content because they know what they are getting into with each new game. Those who don't get mad and complain on forums because the new game isn't the next messiah of MMOs, they know they want something different but they don't know what that different something is.

 

I know what it is but none of them want to admit it, the truth is many people don't have that clarity, they expect too much and expect way more than the MMO genre is capable of giving them and they need to just go find a new genre of gaming to play. That may be because they just don't get it, or maybe they are just completely burned out but either way there's a point in time where some people just need to move on.

 

So maybe the fail goes both ways. MMOs can't offer much more than they do so they have failed, but players who expect so much more also fail because they don't see that maybe, the MMO genre has reached it's pinnacle.

 

Why can't MMOs offer much more? Well that's another topic but I'm going to give you a hint, it has to do with the fact that it's massively multi-player and that requires uniformity.

 

That's why quests will always be x y and z. That's why their is blandness to any story, thats why PvP you will always be just another nameless mob, thats why end game you will always be grinding. There are really just very few variables anyone is going to stick in that will be just enough to distinguish one game from another.

 

 

There is no "total game changer", end of story.

 

 

I do know one thing for certain however. If some of you don't move on or get this concept out of your head that every new game needs to have everything and be perfect from launch, we will never see another "successful" MMO. Doesn't matter if it's Star Wars, Guild Wars, Terra Online, Warhammer 40k, Perfect World, Titan ect...

 

The longer you remain impatient and have unrealistic expectations the longer your wait for a decent MMO will be.

Edited December 26, 2011 by HavenAE

[HavenAE]

I prefer a sandbox but can still enjoy myself in a themepark. I'll give BW some time to cultivate the game further before I begin complaining..

 

 

and btw this ^

[RycheMykola]

oh ...SWG had the best crafting in any game I've played. This doesn't come close.

No other MMO has come close, not even Eve.

[Belrex]

This game does feel lifeless and pretty much a single player mmo. Ive recently landed on tatooine and noticed only 15 people on this planet on the republic side. If this is how future planets are going to be then I dont see the point in continuing. Especially as a JC because there storyline is quite boring. Im playing an IA at the moment, but I cant see myself subbing after the first month is over. Edited December 26, 2011 by Belrex

[Gliviel]

yep tatooine look empty, can't go to far in the wilderness this was disapointing to me.

 

I would like to go everywhere like in DAoC without having to enter instance most of the time.

 

I would like to be able to explore a bit more. ( the exterior of the planet not always be in a dungeon )

 

I find that every new planet i go i do quests indoor more often then outdoor

 

But i like the game i got no issue with the gui or the fps so i'm happy......

[NotLuke]

Me thinks someone rushed through the game expecting 10k+ people to just be waiting there in anticipation to help them, instead of taking their time, enjoying the game and getting to know people as they went.

 

Go back to Tython maybe? or wherever you came from...

[SnoggyMack]

Cities are dull empty shells.

Entire worlds unable to be explored.

A Universe so linear it's like traveling down a blackhole.

 

You've never played Star Trek Online.

 

Which is ok. Many many millions of people have ignored that game. For very good reasons. But, it has a much more lifeless universe than this one.

[KagatoTheThird]

Lifeless is really what stands out when you play this game. BW needs to add a couple of hundreds of NPC walking around on places like Coruscant, Nar Shaddaa, Kaas City, etc as well as dozens of vehicles flying by. Quest givers must have animations and they must move in the vicinity and do other things instead of just waiting for you. They could use a computer, go talk to someone else or check their datapad.

 

They also critically need to add day/night cycle and modify the schedule of the NPC so that during the evening and night, cantinas contain more NPC and streets are less crowded.

 

For a hundred millions dollars MMO from the biggest gaming company and the biggest IP, what they did is really not impressive.

 

You may not know this but SWTOR's city NPC's are handled on the client side so all those nontargetable npc are generated by your pc and it only makes as many as your pc can reasonably handle. So if you feel the city and cantinas are dead there is a good chance it's your pc's fualt. after doing a reboot to clean out the known memory leak issue I came back and found that there were many more npc's then before hand.

 

I don't see day and night adding anything to the game and would take away in some places such as hoth where being outside at night is death.

[IndoJabijin]

- The lack of paths and waypoints for mobs.

- The lack of active/vocal NPCs in hubs/cities.

- The lack of active/vocal NPCs throughout the world.

- Mobs seem to be placed in designated areas (in certain planets) and you go through zones of emptiness.

- The lack of players due to instancing (I agree with this to a point, cap just needs to be raised higher).

- The game, itself, has no aesthetic appeal outside a few planets. The graphics and storyline can be good, but if the world feels lifeless it'll get old fast.

 

The problem with TOR is the aesthetics. Play a game like Pac-man or Mario and you dive into it regardless if the graphics are centuries old. It doesn't matter if the mountain in the distance is beautiful if the colors, scenery, and living world surrendering it aren't as beautiful.

 

I don't have an issue with the gameplay because I enjoyed the story. Being immersed in your class storyline is not the same as being immersed into each and every world this game has to offer. You storyline is only part of the game.

Edited December 26, 2011 by IndoJabijin

[OldSkoolFan]

You're right, I assumed "StarWars" would be a universel mmo sadly it's not, i'll play till the 30days are up maybe come back when it goes F2P something to do till GW2.

 

Check out the number of subscriptions and the number of people already doing 6-month signups. Not seeing this being F2P ahead of GW2. No wonder TOR disappoints you; you already live in a fictional universe.

[Dreossk]

You may not know this but SWTOR's city NPC's are handled on the client side so all those nontargetable npc are generated by your pc and it only makes as many as your pc can reasonably handle. So if you feel the city and cantinas are dead there is a good chance it's your pc's fualt. after doing a reboot to clean out the known memory leak issue I came back and found that there were many more npc's then before hand.

 

I don't see day and night adding anything to the game and would take away in some places such as hoth where being outside at night is death.

 

Uhm, no, my PC is fine and that has no link with the fact that the streets of most cities are almost desert and not containing hundreds of NPC. I know there is a bug that prevent you from seeing NPC from a certain angle but it's rare and you can still see them flash shortly. Your point about Hoth is actually a good immersion addition to the game and should be in.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Dreossk

[GratuaCuun]

What do you mean by lifeless? On Ord Mantell we've got soldiers and rebels fighting... people walking all over the place and beating on each other same on Hutta and Korriban... on Tython we've got meditating and monsters attacking while Knights try to defend your landing-point...

 

there's plenty of background NPC action, if that's what you want... though that sounds kind of weird when there is so much MORE to do than stand around watching NPC's go about their lives

[Dreossk]

Go past the first planet and you'll see.

[Jett-Rinn]

You know I tried I honestly tried to put myself in the other guys shoes and find what they are talking about when they say lifeless

 

I went to several severs wandered around many planets as both republic and sith.

 

This is one of the most immersive MMO's I have ever been part of of. Standing around a fountain in wow is nothing compared to the level of player interaction and Environmental Immersion I experienced.

 

 

There is simply no way in hell those who are complaining are giving a truthful and accurate portrayal unless they are on a very light server and even then....

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jett-Rinn

[Dreossk]

You're saying that the promenade of Coruscant contains enough NPC? That Kaas City as actual life? That Anchorhead is not deserted? This has nothing to do with server population, it's the game. Edited December 26, 2011 by Dreossk

[SnoggyMack]

- The lack of active/vocal NPCs in hubs/cities.

- The lack of active/vocal NPCs throughout the world.

 

I constantly find NPCs being active and vocal in hubs and throughout the world.

 

We can't be playing the same game?

[Jumajin]

i'll play till the 30days are up maybe come back when it goes F2P something to do till GW2.

 

You'll be staying away for good, it sounds like. Regardless of who developed the game, LucasArts holds all the major cards as the licensor. And trust me, they do. As someone that has worked on Star Wars licenses in the past, I assure you that LucasArts will never greenlight SWTOR going F2P.

 

As far as a "Sandbox Star Wars MMO", no thanks. I was there in SWG from launch through late 2006. I remember it when it was a sandbox, and despite the rose colored glasses many Vets wear when thinking back, it was horrible. There was a real reason it sold 1.5 million copies and peaked at 400k subs (and this was pre-WoW launch, as well).

 

I played Fallen Earth, another game that claimed to be a "sandbox" MMO. Again, there's a reason it is now F2P, and I'm not shocked.

 

Sandbox MMOs are great on paper, but are not really commercially successful in the MMO market, and especially won't be in the current market.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jumajin