Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[Berree]

What if they tied dual-spec into some kind of class quest that took awhile to complete? say an hour or two that way people would think very hard if they acutallly wanted to switch?

[Iskareot]

After seeing this thread it makes me wonder if they should not bring back something we had in beta at about the 5th build.

 

We didn't have more then oh say 1k on the server cluster but they had something that was amazing that I hope to not get hung out to dry on.

 

Forgive me SR and team if this was not supposed to be mentioned...

 

Ok so.. at one time... (they had a vendor) you could go to somewhat like your (Companion Mods slot) you would drop the MOD into that slot right?

 

Ok well here is how it used to work... or was a option:

 

SO the MODs you could choose would be Healer / DPS/ Tank...

 

At one time, Khem was a ranged tank (yes lol he was dont ask me why lol)...

 

None the less you could at least quest and have a companion as what you needed... (yeah I know it sounds weird but it was pretty nice)

 

If you did not like or want a tank.. you made them a healer by simply adding the mod.

 

People still laugh at me when I tell them Khem was a ranged tank at one time lol... Aim gear ha lol

 

As for instances.. this is not a fix but as for questing it is I think.

 

Another one of those things that would have been nice to see stay in the game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Iskareot

[Bekkal]

No.. They know how a debate works.. You are ignoring all the countless points made in the 16 pages of this thread..

 

So how about you respond to them?? You can start with the loot issue and people rolling of off spec.. Then you can go to the people being pressured to make a character they don't want becauese their character can.. If I have a sage dps.. Why should I make a healer.. I will most likely have to as people will want me to heal instead of dps.. But I don't want to heal.. So I am left out..

 

Don't even go the route and say that stuff doesn't happen.. It happened in WOW constantly.. Dual spec and LFG were the two worst things that WOW could have done to the game.. Things were fine in BC before all those things were added.. No ninja looting from people from other servers.. No off specs..

 

How about you just respond to the many reasons you say don't exist..

 

That is how a debate works isn't??

 

Or is it like he said.. A reason that you agree with??

 

The loot issue was resolved in WoW shortly after implenetation, was a non-issue in Rift, and would be easy to resolve here as well: Need is only available if the item fits your given "spec". Even beyond a technical issue, same-server grouping/pvp/etc generates a community that will not accept "ninja looting". This occurred in EverQuest some time before WoW was even a dollar sign in some developer's eye. Ninjalooters became known and would flat be denied groups after a while.

 

Cross-server LFG should never happen, and was a terrible design choice in WoW. Servers become self-policing communities if they are isolated, because the challenge of migrating to a new community and starting fresh is more than enough deterrent for all but the most dedicated of griefers.

 

This has already been addressed in previous pages of this thread, as I mentioned earlier.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bekkal

[Mazikeen]

Or they did not add them because of this;

 

"The game already is working as intended. It is an MMO. There are very certain things an MMO needs to be an MMO. Things like company run servers, ability for thousands of people per server, "levels" (in w/e way the game implements them. such as EVE's skills), etc.

 

Well, since they flat-out said they are adding guild banks in a future patch and apologized for the whole chest-matching debacle and said they are working on an alternative I think your entire thought process is flawed

 

Oh, they also told us they are working on UI customization and intend to allow dual-specs within the same AC post-launch

 

So, yeah, bad move to tell people that you intend to do something then change your mind. It happens (as it did with LFD) but they do it as infrequently as possible

 

And for the person talking about 'earning your stripes', just because you leveled as a healer does not make you better than me. FYI, some of us are not new to MMOs, have jobs and lives outside the game and are not only fully capable of healing because we've done it many times before but also lack the time/patience to level a second toon solely to heal

 

I think having 16 total options to level, 8 for story alone, is plenty. Doubling that to 32 is simply uncalled for

[Telske]

They are already planning to implement a dual spec feature.

 

Link?

[Bekkal]

Link?

 

Posted several times in this very thread: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916

[Iskareot]

Well, since they flat-out said they are adding guild banks in a future patch and apologized for the whole chest-matching debacle and said they are working on an alternative I think your entire thought process is flawed

 

Oh, they also told us they are working on UI customization and intend to allow dual-specs within the same AC post-launch

 

So, yeah, bad move to tell people that you intend to do something then change your mind. It happens (as it did with LFD) but they do it as infrequently as possible

 

And for the person talking about 'earning your stripes', just because you leveled as a healer does not make you better than me. FYI, some of us are not new to MMOs, have jobs and lives outside the game and are not only fully capable of healing because we've done it many times before but also lack the time/patience to level a second toon solely to heal

 

I think having 16 total options to level, 8 for story alone, is plenty. Doubling that to 32 is simply uncalled for

 

 

 

Now as for the bank thing.. yes..

 

HERE IS THE KICKER for the Chest matching.. and this is the most unreal one. AND it cracks me up.

 

NOBODY SAW IT... very few people even saw it. We had it closed beta and they took it out after the second weekender load test group.

 

11-11-11 never even got to play with it?? SOOOO in short the irony to that change is that it was a small small small group of people that let that get out and actually make it sound like it was sooooooo game breaking when in fact a very small portion of us even had it to start with to KNOW WHAT THE HECK IT WAS.

 

That is the irony to the chest matching... lol NOBODY but us closed testers really had it. Now that cracks me up.

 

Guys for the record there is like 1000 other things that were removed MUCH COOLER AND BETTER THEN THAT!!! lol....

 

Soooo silly.

[Mazikeen]

Link?

 

Google?

[Iskareot]

Well, since they flat-out said they are adding guild banks in a future patch and apologized for the whole chest-matching debacle and said they are working on an alternative I think your entire thought process is flawed

 

Oh, they also told us they are working on UI customization and intend to allow dual-specs within the same AC post-launch

 

So, yeah, bad move to tell people that you intend to do something then change your mind. It happens (as it did with LFD) but they do it as infrequently as possible

 

And for the person talking about 'earning your stripes', just because you leveled as a healer does not make you better than me. FYI, some of us are not new to MMOs, have jobs and lives outside the game and are not only fully capable of healing because we've done it many times before but also lack the time/patience to level a second toon solely to heal

 

I think having 16 total options to level, 8 for story alone, is plenty. Doubling that to 32 is simply uncalled for

 

 

How ironic that your post makes the point for the other side of the coin. ......

 

Some people can play and do not judge their lives if they do have the time... lol just saying, you kinda set yourself up there.

 

If they level as a healer it is BECAUSE they intend on it. It is not their fault you cannot.

 

I liked this.. response. It was kinda funny in some ways.

[MajikMyst]

The loot issue was resolved in WoW shortly after implenetation, was a non-issue in Rift, and would be easy to resolve here as well: Need is only available if the item fits your given "spec". Even beyond a technical issue, same-server grouping/pvp/etc generates a community that will not accept "ninja looting". This occurred in EverQuest some time before WoW was even a dollar sign in some developer's eye. Ninjalooters became known and would flat be denied groups after a while.

 

Cross-server LFG should never happen, and was a terrible design choice in WoW. Servers become self-policing communities if they are isolated, because the challenge of migrating to a new community and starting fresh is more than enough deterrent for all but the most dedicated of griefers.

 

This has already been addressed in previous pages of this thread, as I mentioned earlier.

 

Again.. You are not debating the issue.. You are simply attempting to discount it as being irrelevent.. That is not debating.. WOW never fixed the issue.. It was an issue in September of this year when I left..

 

The problem is.. You can't ignore these issues and claim they don't exist.. If you are unwilling to respond to the concerns of the other side.. Then you are just as guilty as you claim other people are..

 

Those issues exist.. You have only to respond to them..

Edited December 28, 2011 by MajikMyst

[Casil]

No.. They know how a debate works.. You are ignoring all the countless points made in the 16 pages of this thread..

 

So how about you respond to them?? You can start with the loot issue and people rolling of off spec.. Then you can go to the people being pressured to make a character they don't want becauese their character can.. If I have a sage dps.. Why should I make a healer.. I will most likely have to as people will want me to heal instead of dps.. But I don't want to heal.. So I am left out..

 

Don't even go the route and say that stuff doesn't happen.. It happened in WOW constantly.. Dual spec and LFG were the two worst things that WOW could have done to the game.. Things were fine in BC before all those things were added.. No ninja looting from people from other servers.. No off specs..

 

How about you just respond to the many reasons you say don't exist..

 

That is how a debate works isn't??

 

Or is it like he said.. A reason that you agree with??

 

1. Off-spec looting - you don't need easy dual-specs built in-game for people to have an off-set. My trooper can have a DPS and heal spec right now if I'm willing to pay the credits and time. Just as with companion and orange-gear looting, you just need to set up loot rules at the beginning (e.g. main/current-spec > off-spec > greed). Contrary to the doomsayers, most people in WoW and other MMOs are perfectly fine if you ask "Can I need this for my off-spec?" And yes, that's even after LFD was included.

 

Also, given the generic stat system, you'll generally need the same gear no matter whether you're DPS or heals (tanks are a little different granted)

 

2. Being forced to switch to a new role - I'm sorry, but despite what you say, I don't believe this happens. Not unless you're in some crazy guild that demands an extra healer and you, Mr. Operative DPS are suddenly it. In this case, it's simply a matter of changing guilds. Because if that guild demands you become a healer despite your lack of comfort, familiarity and interest, then clearly they're a bad guild and would likely demand you switch and pay the credits to do so in the current environment. In other words, this is a problem with bad people with awful personalities, not a gameplay problem.

[Kaarnus]

Just add a button so you can change class/AC/spec at will while your at it.

 

You may as well if your going down the "2 Specs" route.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kaarnus

[Mazikeen]

How ironic that your post makes the point for the other side of the coin. ......

 

Some people can play and do not judge their lives if they do have the time... lol just saying, you kinda set yourself up there.

 

If they level as a healer it is BECAUSE they intend on it. It is not their fault you cannot.

 

I liked this.. response. It was kinda funny in some ways.

 

And some of us hate healing but realize that sometimes they're needed (either due to a lack of healers or one bails mid-dungeon) and like to be able to swap and perform as that role to benefit others

 

I'm not leveling a completely different character for those 'in case' moments. Sorry, not happening

[Bekkal]

Again.. You are not debating the issue.. You are simply attempting to discount it as being irrelevent.. That is not debating.. WOW never fixed the issue.. It was an issue in September of this year when I left..

 

The problem is.. You can't ignore these issues and claim they don't exist.. If you are unwilling to respond to the concerns of the other side.. Then you are just as guilty as you claim other people are..

 

Those issues exist.. You have only to respond to them..

 

When I quit Rift, you literally could not roll Need unless you had queued for an instance as a spec that was "unlocked" for the item in question. In what way does that not resolve the issue? Any cross-server LFD tool will have members queue as a role, thus locking them into set item availability.

 

In a same-server system like we have here, the problem resolves itself, as I made very clear.

 

Edit: Confused WoW with Rift for some reason.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bekkal

[Excise]

I agree we need more healers, but it is worth noting that, at least for my Medic Operative, I solo just fine (I admit boss fights are super boring as a healer, though).

[Kemosobe]

Well, since they flat-out said they are adding guild banks in a future patch and apologized for the whole chest-matching debacle and said they are working on an alternative I think your entire thought process is flawed

 

Oh, they also told us they are working on UI customization and intend to allow dual-specs within the same AC post-launch

 

So, yeah, bad move to tell people that you intend to do something then change your mind. It happens (as it did with LFD) but they do it as infrequently as possible

 

If you are crying because Bioware said something and did not implement it, you need to leave now because there were MANY thing they said were going to be in the game when they first announced it back in 2008 that are not here. The main one being the ability to swap factions if you were to go full blown good while on Empire or full blown bad while on Republic.

 

Nothing is "standard" in the MMO industry except for very small concepts that make it defined to the industry as an MMO. Go ask Blizzard if SWG was not an MMO because it (originally) did not have an LFG tool or even defined classes like the "standard" MMO does. Ask Bioware if EVE is not considered an MMO because of its lack of dual spec.

 

If you think that all MMOs are required to have certain things that all all recent MMOs have just taken from WoW, why not go read this: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/102009/4897_Definition-Insanity-What-is-an-MMO

 

Because you probably won't, here is a small paragraph I liked. They are mainly talking about the fact that their community does not consider Global Agenda, Guild Wars, or CitiesXL as MMOs;

"So long as it’s within the realm of common sense, we let the game companies decide what to call their games. Now, of course we are not going to go list Monopoly here, but when a game provides shared common areas or a highly online, cooperative experience, and wants to call themselves an MMO… who are we to say no?"

 

So no, an MMO does not need a dual spec or LFG tool or anything that you think is "standard" to be considered an MMO.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kemosobe

[monjiay]

Maybe just allowing a dual spec for PvP would satisfy both sides of this argument.

 

PvP really is totally different from PvE spec and you can see it in the trees. Some abilities are better for PvP and some for PvE. Why should I have to build my character for one and gimp the other?

 

Let us have a second spec that can only be activated in the PVP warzones and I would be happy.

 

Oh, I should correct that. I'm happy now. A PvP dual spec would make me happier, but it's Bioware's game so whatever they do, I'm not going anywhere.

[Beastfury]

When I quit WoW toward the end of WOTLK, you literally could not roll Need unless you had queued for an instance as a spec that was "unlocked" for the item in question. In what way does that not resolve the issue? Any cross-server LFD tool will have members queue as a role, thus locking them into set item availability.

 

In a same-server system like we have here, the problem resolves itself, as I made very clear.

 

Huh? You couldn't roll need if you couldn't use it. Example rogue couldn't roll need on plate. But a holy paly could roll need on paladin tanking gear just fine, you are delusional.

[NinjaApacHe]

/signed.

[Bekkal]

Huh? You couldn't roll need if you couldn't use it. Example rogue couldn't roll need on plate. But a holy paly could roll need on paladin tanking gear just fine, you are delusional.

 

See my edit.

 

Edit: And regardless, it would be crazy simple to implement such a system IF they implemented cross-server LFG, which they are not.

 

Same-server grouping polices itself, as it always has.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bekkal

[Mazikeen]

Again.. You are not debating the issue.. You are simply attempting to discount it as being irrelevent.. That is not debating.. WOW never fixed the issue.. It was an issue in September of this year when I left..

 

The problem is.. You can't ignore these issues and claim they don't exist.. If you are unwilling to respond to the concerns of the other side.. Then you are just as guilty as you claim other people are..

 

Those issues exist.. You have only to respond to them..

 

1. You can only need roll on your armor type in WoW

2. People already roll on gear for their companions in SWTOR

3. ACs use the same armor type (and largely the same gear as a whole, except for tanks) so even when they add dual-spec people will still be limited in what gear they have to alt-spec roll for

[Basiliscus]

1. Off-spec looting -

Also, given the generic stat system, you'll generally need the same gear no matter whether you're DPS or heals (tanks are a little different granted)

 

2. Being forced to switch to a new role -

 

To #1 I agree the vast majority of people I grouped up with in WoW, even through the LFG system, asked before needing on anything for off spec, it seemed like a social moray, if they didnt, we booted em, unless it was a guild run and you were the odd person out.

 

2) as long as you have the tree to do it, people are going to want you to respec to the most needed spec, regardless of the cost to you, if you complain about the wait to find a group that is. Generally, ive found in WoW and other games, if you say you're dps then thats what you do, regardless of what other trees you have.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Basiliscus

[Beastfury]

See my edit.

 

Edit: And regardless, it would be crazy simple to implement such a system IF they implemented cross-server LFG, which they are not.

 

Same-server grouping polices itself, as it always has.

 

I had every soul unlocked by lvl 15. Omg i couldn't roll need from lvl 13 to 15 oh wait there were no instances until lvl 17... damn

[VettoRyo]

Wow, who would have thought people would be so against flexibility.

 

Dunno some seem like legit arguments, part of a vibe I'm getting is people don't want to lose there "sure shot" case they picked healer/Tank. In the end Dual spec add life to the game and get the ball rolling when it needed, but in the end it not us to put it in or disallow it.

 

It is Biowares. And if they feel it needed they will add it.

[Mazikeen]

If you think that all MMOs are required to have certain things that all all recent MMOs have just taken from WoW, why not go read this:

 

WHY does it always go back to the 'it's in WoW so that must be why you want it' argument?

 

Have you read ANY of my other posts? I don't really care if it's in WoW or not. Fact is that the games dual-spec has been in have benefited from the inclusion of this considerably, largely in terms of increased availability of healers and tanks.

 

I have yet to see a reasonable argument against dual-speccing that does not involve some sort of 'I want to feel special' point. You are not a unique snowflake and just because you roll a tank or healer you are not entitled to anything special.

 

FYI, my main is a BH tank and I do my job quite well. I like the idea of dual-speccing because it would afford me more opportunities to play DPS