Why I quit (parked) my PVP Commando and Merc

[Pathlight-]

Hi guys,

 

I'm shamelessly writing this post in part to vent, and in part, to communicate a message that i suspect many people on these forums already know.

 

My love for ranged casters (commando, Merc, Sorcerer and Sage) seemed a perfect match for my love of pvp.

 

But time has not been kind. Time and time again, I am simply outmatched by 'stealth' classes, the operative and assassins. When I can die in 4 hits whilst stunned for 90% of the time,..for months on end, one comes to ask,.. "Is this fun?"

 

Sadly, my answer is no. I'm paying a subscription to feel miserable in my free time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a close fight. For example, Marauders are fun to tangle with, as are DPS tanks, and even the odd sorceror or powertech.

 

But if there is stealth, then 90% of the time, I'm going to die. And when I win, half the time they stealth and get out of dodge (only to come back when I'm at half health or the like).

 

All fair in love and war,..but I have parked my Merc and commando, because the issue to me isn't skill level or tactical per say, it boils down to 1 stun break and then you're toast.

 

I love electronet (which I believe is a great solution), but give it a 15 second cool-down, or buff the armor v's back-stabs,..or constant stealth scans/detection,..something, anything.

 

Anywho, I'll park these toons for 6 months until i see significant buffs v's stealth. No point playing it, if it's not fun.

 

By the way, gear wise, full augmented, and half decked out with eliminator (162) gear),..the rest 156.

 

Thanks for ready and sharing my pain.

 

Cheers

 

Themisticles

 

Learn to kite.

 

Learn to play.

 

Grow a *********** pair.

[Stringray]

15 second electronet. Perfect. *SIGH*

[chillshock]

Merc/mando is just an liability for your team, cause they need to watch over you all the time

 

Same for any member of the team. If the others don't pay attention you're not playing top level. Use the focus to turn it against them: guard + taunt + heal on a merc => you got one free and the others are probably blowing long time cooldowns. Focus is hard for any class. Even the ones with target-reset should be carefull that their reset doesnt result in a sudden switch to a non-hotted non quarded target. Because that means FAIL.

 

Now if you were referring to 'weak in solo ranked' - yeah... solo ranked was a really REALLY bad idea.

 

But yes, you are right: the merc is a prio target. Why? Because if left unchecked they will effing WRECK YOU!

Edited August 7, 2014 by chillshock

[Cjirucha]

Hi guys,

All fair in love and war,..but I have parked my Merc and commando, because the issue to me isn't skill level or tactical per say, it boils down to 1 stun break and then you're toast.

 

I love electronet (which I believe is a great solution), but give it a 15 second cool-down, or buff the armor v's back-stabs,..or constant stealth scans/detection,..something, anything.

Themisticles

 

I know other people have called this out, but I just want to make sure you understand how 1 sided your argument is. You mentioned 1 stun break and you're toast. Well I play a mara, and ya know what happens when I get electro netted?? You literally have gimped me. Hmm well do I use my 1 cc break on freaking electronet so I can get hard stunned later or do I attempt to eat the damage? Seriously, I hate that ability more than anything in this game and suggesting a 15 sec cooldown is absolutely ludicrous.

 

Haha ok now that that is out of the way- Countering stealth is definitely more difficult than other classes but easily do-able. The trick is to interrupt that initial burst. For operatives when I am opened on from stealth I usually hit intimidating roar (insta mezz) or force camo. This eats in to the time they have acid blade (armor pen) up. On a merc I hit rocket boost, electro dart or HO to break the root and get away. For a sin you must eat that 2 sec stun and then immediately get away. Stun him, rocket boost, HO do whatever you can to gain some distance. Mercs are not the best at dealing with melee classes but they have some decent tools to manage them.

[chillshock]

Heh - I know what you mean. My main is mara. I have developed a deep deep anger I direct towards those with the orange wheel under their feet.

[Thermisticles]

Just a few points

 

1. Kiting to keep distance: Buys time, but not kills. Having said this, I use it all the time, because sometimes a team mate that has just made a kill will switch to my target. Make no mistake, a Mermando is the prey is such a scenario. LOS is pointless, you're up against a melee class.

 

2. Not playing class: Subjective and relative to the skill set of others, of course. All I can say, is that if the issue is just 'skill' based, I wouldn't have an issue with the class itself. If the issues I'm finding with the class are isolated to me, then fine, i'm a poor player. In my humble opinion however, I don't believe that's the case. I have adjusted tactics on many occasions, with varying degrees of failure. The best outcome I can manage, is staying alive longer (via kiting, keeping on the move, healing with tech over ride etc etc), hoping someone will intercede and kill my opponent. This happens about 5% of the time. If I can't make it to my allies in time,..it's usually over for me.

 

3. Being focused:Yeah, in 4v4 arena, it's a given that the Mermando will be focused either 1st or 2nd (healer being the other option). Only bad players leave me alone in 4v4. A mechanic preventing being chain stunned plus a lower cool-down on electronet, and firing on the move, are the olny way I see this class surviving being focused. And being focused by stealthers,..well, I just pucker up, and kiss my behind goodbye.

 

4. Heavy Armor v's stealthers is laughable: I state this as a fact. 4 hits to kill me in the last combat I was in, says it all.

 

5. Economy of action: It takes a Mercmando more time to focus down an opponent, than it does an assasin, or operative. Time is against a Mercmando, and whilst I can buy time for myself, it's at the expensive of dps output.

 

6. Been told to 'Grow a pair': Note that I am only singling out stealthers here. A DPS tank, a marauder, sorc, or even another Mercmando can take me out,..about half the time. I have options with those classes. It's skill set v's skill set. That's what makes pvp enjoyable, that challenge. Stealthers take challenge away from the equasion. It's almost a foregone conclusion that they will either win or at best, survive, the fight, only to return when i've been weakened.

 

Bottom line.

 

Mercmandos die far too often against stealth classes, and they know it. Invariably, stealthers will go for Mercmando's as easy meat. Only the team will save a Mercmando from a stealther.

 

Others may find this enjoyable, unfortunately, after enduring 55 levels and gearing up, and still seeing the same outcome, I can't rationalize why I should continue doing an activity that has frustrating outcomes like this.

 

I love pvp. I love the class concept. But predictably being killed is just not fun.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Thermisticles

Edited August 7, 2014 by Thermisticles

[Jimmajamma]

You really should bench your merc/mando because judging on what you have been writing you seem awful at it.

[Thermisticles]

Ok, so you conclude, after the many points outlined, that it's my skill set at fault.

 

Thanks for your feedback. It is noted and no longer sought.

[BoskiCesiu]

I stopped playing my commando healer too. In WZ's, I felt like I visited the zoo. In front - leaping apes, behind me sneaking assasins with bilion stuns and roots. With my stunbreak cooldown Im dead in a few seconds.

 

This game should be name: Stuns Wars - The Rooted Republic.

[tempMentive]

The only reason Merc / Mando gets focused first is because they are dumb and play the middle tree. Try getting a Solo Pop with a Sorc / Sage who is known for playing the middle tree. The sorc will get focused first. As a mando, you should be keeping your distance, pillar humping, and be non-stupid. Anyway, the good mando's are healing, and most of them suck at that since it is the most challenging of the healing classes (although sorcs suck as heals in solo).

 

Just makes me laugh. This mando wanted to sync Q's with me the other day, I told him to stop playing middle tree, and he said no. Somehow carried him for 3 games where he did 8k each round. People just don't listen and don't try to get better....

 

Middle tree requires a constant cast bar that is easily interrupted. Turret builds are bad in solo ranked.

[JackNader]

 

This game should be name: Stuns Wars - The Rooted Republic.

 

Stun Wars - The Frozen Republic

[WaldoA]

Yes you may be fighting a losing battle against a Stealth class, but when you're sat at Range hitting for 5k+ on people who can't get to you in time, I don't suppose it's very fun for them either.

 

PvP is fine, each class has it's weaknesses and strengths.

[JouerTue]

The OP is a ranged class talking about a 1 on 1 scenario. If you get stunlocked it is 100% a L2P issue.

 

this.

[Zoom_VI]

The only reason Merc / Mando gets focused first is because they are dumb and play the middle tree. Try getting a Solo Pop with a Sorc / Sage who is known for playing the middle tree. The sorc will get focused first. As a mando, you should be keeping your distance, pillar humping, and be non-stupid. Anyway, the good mando's are healing, and most of them suck at that since it is the most challenging of the healing classes (although sorcs suck as heals in solo).

 

Just makes me laugh. This mando wanted to sync Q's with me the other day, I told him to stop playing middle tree, and he said no. Somehow carried him for 3 games where he did 8k each round. People just don't listen and don't try to get better....

 

Middle tree requires a constant cast bar that is easily interrupted. Turret builds are bad in solo ranked.

 

You realize you have to cast in order to proc HiB in assault right? You could use FA then break it, but FA has a 12 second cooldown which means without casting you would be missing half of your potential HiB, which is a *massive* damage loss.

Besides getting off grav round is not hard at all, unless you sit and facetank of course.

 

Plus Gunnery is tankier than mando assault.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Zoom_VI]

Doesn't matter what spec you play, this class has no defensive cooldowns. Energy shield? Just means the hp bar will reach zero a second later. Kolto Overload? With the massive amounts of damage flying around this isn't keeping you alive at all.

 

Yeah, mando really needs a "oh crap" button. On my powertech I always go for mandos first because I know I can use explosive fuel and shoulder cannon, safe in the knowledge that there is nothing they can do to waste my burst.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[TezMoney]

Doesn't matter what spec you play, this class has no defensive cooldowns. Energy shield? Just means the hp bar will reach zero a second later. Kolto Overload? With the massive amounts of damage flying around this isn't keeping you alive at all.

 

I wonder why I find both of these cooldowns extremely effective while you don't.

[JackNader]

I miss the old kolto overload.

[WaldoA]

Doesn't matter what spec you play, this class has no defensive cooldowns. Energy shield? Just means the hp bar will reach zero a second later. Kolto Overload? With the massive amounts of damage flying around this isn't keeping you alive at all.

 

I'm all for people giving good feedback on how they can improve their class.. but please.. don't post something so bias.

These are two great cooldowns, don't make them out to be rubbish just because you want something better.

[khsolo]

what if 3 ppl jumps on u?

 

U di like any other class where 3 ppl jump you

[JackNader]

This is the way I see it...

 

Quick switch ganking and hard stunning almost always profits. This is the disease of swtor.

 

Here's why

 

4 players leap to a target, hard stun him and beat the **** out of him. The amount of skill required to do this is negligible. The player being attacked has to wait for the white bar before he can pop his breaker. Unfortunately, TTK in this game is now so low in PvP that you will either be dead or very close to dead before your white barred. Alternately, you could pop your breaker early and try and get off a DCD which almost always results in you being immediately restuned and beaten to death anyway. It's a lose lose scenario. The only way to avoid certain death is if the rest of your team has enough sense to actually assist (tank switching guard, taunting.. someone fearing or knocking back, etc) The amount of "skill" required to save you is higher than the skill needed to gank and kill you.

 

Personally, I don't even see this as an issue for Mercs but something systemic to the resolve system itself. Let me pose this question.... if you could "theoretically" pop your breaker the moment you are hard stunned and receive some measure of "short duration immunity" due to your breaker, how would that affect the result.

 

In the case of Merc, he can bubble or hydraulic overrides away, thus saving himself and mitigating the gank. No additional cooldowns or class re balancing is required.

[Ridickilis]

The only way to avoid certain death is if the rest of your team has enough sense to actually assist (tank switching guard, taunting.. someone fearing or knocking back, etc) The amount of "skill" required to save you is higher than the skill needed to gank and kill you.

 

This is where it falls apart for me. Why does it take more skill to press a button for guard/taunt/KB than it does to press a button to stun? Well it may take more skill for 90 percent of the tanks out there who "click" guard and treat it like a Ronco (set it and forget it) or those who don't even use taunts.... but that's not a flaw in the mechanics.

[szczypaczek]

Shield is crap as devensife cd, 25% more dmg reduction? on 2 min cooldown? Pls i beg you dont make me laugh, u will probably die a second later And still im not analyzing the 1v1 scenario, but arenas. Mando needs more help to be on pair with other clasess and i dont buy this crap like l2p And everyone will focus a mando first cause its plain simple, under heavy fire ur not going to do lots of dps, while kiting and trying to survive. Arenas are just not ranged friendly, so if the devs are saying the truth about making each class competitive in arenas, they need to rethink the approach to mando. Edited August 7, 2014 by szczypaczek

[Kunda]

This is where it falls apart for me. Why does it take more skill to press a button for guard/taunt/KB than it does to press a button to stun? Well it may take more skill for 90 percent of the tanks out there who "click" guard and treat it like a Ronco (set it and forget it) or those who don't even use taunts.... but that's not a flaw in the mechanics.

 

Additionally, why are we advocating for people to survive 4 on 1's?

[JackNader]

Additionally, why are we advocating for people to survive 4 on 1's?

 

4 people beating on you will always result in a death unless those 4 players are complete scrubs or the rest of your team is "extremely" switched on.

 

The issue is the manner in which you die. People seem to think that just because they have a player advantage that they get an automatic I win. There is a HUGE difference between going down swinging verses being completely unable to defend yourself.

 

Here's an experience I had the other day in the lowbies of all places which is a perfect case in point.

 

Arena match.

 

Opposite team has 2 vengies, 1 mara and a merc healer. My team has a sin tank, a sorc and 2 PT's

Round 1 starts and the 3 enemy DPS leap to our sorc and he dies more or less instantly. The rest of us go to work with taunts stuns and peels and we manage to actually pull out the win.

When the round ends I see our tank has ZERO protection, did like 20k damage, the sorc did an amazing 6k damage. Essentially, myself and the other PT did all the work.

 

Round 2.. The opposing team changes up their tactics and instead switch to the biggest threat, me.

 

They leap to me, and stunlock gank me. I watch as the other 3 players on my side completely ignore whats going on to me and instead go off chasing after the merc healer. I lose almost all my health in a couple seconds. I have no choice but to hit my breaker and try and pop cooldowns which I manage to do, but it doesn't matter as i'm immediately restunned and melt away. I die because the rest of my team essentially didn't have enough sense to peel, stun, guard, aoe taunt, nothing... Also, the CC breaker is of ZERO worth in a scenario where TTK is shorter than the time it takes to resolve someone.

 

Round 3

 

Exact repeat of round 2 with the exception that I pop my cooldowns just before they leap to me so I actually last a few seconds longer.

 

In a nutshell, I die for 2 reasons.

A) The players on my side sucked balls

B) The resolve mechanic favors heavily the gank and stun approach.

 

A is a fact of life... there will always be ******* and that's never going to change. B is what I have a problem with. 'Hypothetically," if the cc breaker provided me with a measure of immunity after my initial break, the situation would have played out quite differently. Those 3 DPS would have had to work for their kill. I may have been able to stall them long enough for our players to down their healer. In any case, the game wouldn't have been a white wash and it might have actually been fun for all players involved.

Edited August 7, 2014 by JackNader

[Obviousenuendo]

Meh

 

Mercenary and Marauder are the only classes in this game where playing either of the DPS specs as the tree suggests will lead to you getting your *** beat down in PvP..

 

fxt /5char