Terrulin Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Making something that would be functional shouldnt take longer than an hour or 2 considering the content currently in the game. Im not sure if the lack of a hood toggle is a case of not wanting to do the work, or not having anyone smart enough to realize how easy it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Making something that would be functional shouldnt take longer than an hour or 2 considering the content currently in the game. Im not sure if the lack of a hood toggle is a case of not wanting to do the work, or not having anyone smart enough to realize how easy it would be. I'm fairly sure that if it was as simple as you make it sound, hood toggle would have been available at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightHawk Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 This would be easy, I personally call it the "twilek hack", a manual toggle that triggers the same behavior Twilek lekkus do (hood vanishes). However, I am frequently told by other proponents of "hood down" that that is not enough, and that they demand proper animation of pulling the hood down, showing the pulled down hood, etc... I'm aware that it wouldn't be enough for people to be satisfied, but wouldn't it be better to have that /for now/ than to not have anything at all until they finally get the full toggle in place (assuming they ever get around to it)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm aware that it wouldn't be enough for people to be satisfied, but wouldn't it be better to have that /for now/ than to not have anything at all until they finally get the full toggle in place (assuming they ever get around to it)? I think it would be enough, but people disagree whenever I post about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinak Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Hey Pingonaut, I know that hood toggle is something we have talked about intermittently at some cantina tour events but I know we haven't made a more "formal" reply about it on the forums. We know that this is a feature that some players really want to have as another method of customization for their characters. As it stands right now, this is not a feature we are actively working on. However, I can tell you that our team also has interest in this as a feature and it is something we regularly revisit to try to fit into our development schedule. Unfortunately it just isn't something that is in the cards at this time. Hope that answers your question. -eric Introduce a covert energy hood that drops the hood...done. It'll take them 5 minutes. If nothing else it's an acceptable quick fix until something more elegant is introduced. This would be easy, I personally call it the "twilek hack", a manual toggle that triggers the same behavior Twilek lekkus do (hood vanishes). However, I am frequently told by other proponents of "hood down" that that is not enough, and that they demand proper animation of pulling the hood down, showing the pulled down hood, etc... I've been here a long time. I have yet to see any hood toggle threads with people demanding an animation to correspond with it. All I've seen is people claiming other people have demanded it. Edited July 17, 2014 by Vinak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Introduce a covert energy hood that drops the hood...done. It'll take them 5 minutes. If nothing else it's an acceptable quick fix until something more elegant is introduced. I've been here a long time. I have yet to see any hood toggle threads with people demanding an animation to correspond with it. All I've seen is people claiming other people have demanded it. Search for twilek hack, I use that term quite regularly. And In most topics about it, when I say it, people say they want to see hoods go down, instead of just vanishing, etc.., As for covert hood, that has major flaw in the fact that some conversation force "hide helmet" toggle, making the hood pop back up. Knight "tiaras" have the same problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Search for twilek hack, I use that term quite regularly. And In most topics about it, when I say it, people say they want to see hoods go down, instead of just vanishing, etc.., As for covert hood, that has major flaw in the fact that some conversation force "hide helmet" toggle, making the hood pop back up. Knight "tiaras" have the same problem Not perfect but would do the trick for most for sure, until we eventually get an improved version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I've been here a long time. I have yet to see any hood toggle threads with people demanding an animation to correspond with it. All I've seen is people claiming other people have demanded it. There was a post a while back from one of the more what only can be described in my head as ... anal RPers (sorry, I like rping myself, but some of the stuff you want/ask for is so technical and "detailed" it moves into the silly category...) that said he not only wanted the animation of his character raising his hands up and lowering his hood, but -also- performing a bow animation emote to a person he was standing in front of... I nust want a option to remove the hoods on armor I like, especially the temple guardian one that shows the completely fooking retreaded decision bioware made that makes your charcters •BALD• under hoods. If they fixed it so your hair actually showed up under hoods, I would be more inclined to deal with the hoods. I don't need a grand and flowery "tut tut cheerio wot wot tutti fruity" animation of taking my hood down, I just want the damn thing gone... Edited July 17, 2014 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Introduce a head piece that's either a hood up or a hood down and it overrides the hoods already attached to the chest piece. Won't be able to wear helmets and masks but most people wanting hood toggle desire to see their faces so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrulin Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm fairly sure that if it was as simple as you make it sound, hood toggle would have been available at launch. There are plenty of helmets already that cause hoods to disappear, like my old columi helmet on my commando who had a guardian chest piece shell for a while. All they would have to do is apply that logic to make the hood hide while not displaying that particular helmet. The hood wouldnt be hanging from the shoulders, but you have to walk before you can run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dookiie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 This add on is easy to make, i don't know how hard it is to add it to the existing code and i know it would take a lot of time, but it is not hard to make ... you just need to make two pictures of every hooded armor with hood up and hood down and a button that switches the picture so you have two different views of the armor...it is a different story if you wish to apply an animation of hooding...but they will not bring this to game because they make so much more money on cartel market with various armors that they can sell for cartel coins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetStarship Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Not really a big deal to me but, I like the idea. It should be included in future plans if for no other reason than it gives the game a "huh...that's cool!" moment for every jedi player to toy with. Edited July 18, 2014 by SunsetStarship grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Making something that would be functional shouldnt take longer than an hour or 2 considering the content currently in the game. Im not sure if the lack of a hood toggle is a case of not wanting to do the work, or not having anyone smart enough to realize how easy it would be. Always my favorite posts. Armchair game programmer calling the devs lazy/stupid and having no clue what they are really talking about. I guess it would not be an MMO without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrulin Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Always my favorite posts. Armchair game programmer calling the devs lazy/stupid and having no clue what they are really talking about. I guess it would not be an MMO without. You mean armchair game programmer who has a degree in computer science, writes games, and teaches courses on game programming. Make sure you get the whole thing =þ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Making something that would be functional shouldnt take longer than an hour or 2 considering the content currently in the game. Im not sure if the lack of a hood toggle is a case of not wanting to do the work, or not having anyone smart enough to realize how easy it would be. Proper hood toggle, with animations, displaying the lowered hood, etc would be a crapload of work. Drawing hood down versions of all armor (and possibly raised hood for hood down armors)Rigging all hoods with bones (computer modeling jargon, things that allow models to move)Animating the bones Steps 1 and 2 are the ones that take most time. However, getting a few people away from CM items to model hood down armors (modeling armors and other stuff is what people focus on CM stuff do) and rig them would be probably possible. Now, the mentioned "twilek hack" seems relatively easy, because it probably already exists in the game code, possibly checking against player race and deciding to hide the hood in case player is a twilek. All that is seemingly needed is to tie that behavior to a toggle in UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightHawk Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Introduce a covert energy hood that drops the hood...done. It'll take them 5 minutes. If nothing else it's an acceptable quick fix until something more elegant is introduced. I've been here a long time. I have yet to see any hood toggle threads with people demanding an animation to correspond with it. All I've seen is people claiming other people have demanded it. This was my exact idea on the previous page. :-) Now that we have some support for it, how do we get this idea in front of the devs and get a response from them about it? Search for twilek hack, I use that term quite regularly. And In most topics about it, when I say it, people say they want to see hoods go down, instead of just vanishing, etc.., As for covert hood, that has major flaw in the fact that some conversation force "hide helmet" toggle, making the hood pop back up. Knight "tiaras" have the same problem Even if that happens, it's still better than nothing at all, I'd say. Most of your in-game time is spent outside of conversations. Certainly we want to still keep asking for the "full" hood toggle, but it's better to have something rather than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Even if that happens, it's still better than nothing at all, I'd say. Most of your in-game time is spent outside of conversations. Certainly we want to still keep asking for the "full" hood toggle, but it's better to have something rather than nothing. There is technically no difference between covert helmet and twilek hack, they both trigger the same behavior, only one does it with a equipment piece and other with a UI toggle. However, the hack should be immune to things like conversation settings, and you could wear whatever helmet you please. In short, the hack is a win-win, at least until an animated hood toggle exists (however, I would probably be perfectly fine with the twilek hack only). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightHawk Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 There is technically no difference between covert helmet and twilek hack, they both trigger the same behavior, only one does it with a equipment piece and other with a UI toggle. However, the hack should be immune to things like conversation settings, and you could wear whatever helmet you please. In short, the hack is a win-win, at least until an animated hood toggle exists (however, I would probably be perfectly fine with the twilek hack only). I understand. The problem is, though, that including a toggle is something they will need to, at the very least, add some text and a radio button to a menu somewhere and, in a worst-case scenario, add a whole bunch of programming that lets the radio button control the "race" of the character without changing any other aspects of race. Therefore, I think our requests to the devs should be that they make, in order of preference: Hood toggle > Twilek hack > covert headgear They already said they're not working on the hood toggle. Since we can't have that for now, let's ask that they add the Twilek hack or, if that's too much/too involved to do right now, the covert headgear that drops the hood. I certainly agree that the Twilek hack is superior to the covert head, but if they're not willing to give us the hack (or not able to do so yet), perhaps they can give us the covert headgear to tide us over. Something is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You mean armchair game programmer who has a degree in computer science, writes games, and teaches courses on game programming. Make sure you get the whole thing =þ In that case I certainly stand corrected about being an armchair programmer! I do still feel your original post about only taking 1-2 hours and no one being smart enough to realize it sounded off base. Their livelihood relies on keeping players as happy as possible. The original team did not put it in at launch and failed to add it before being shown the door. The current team has not found your no brainer solution either. You could be right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrulin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 In that case I certainly stand corrected about being an armchair programmer! I do still feel your original post about only taking 1-2 hours and no one being smart enough to realize it sounded off base. Their livelihood relies on keeping players as happy as possible. The original team did not put it in at launch and failed to add it before being shown the door. The current team has not found your no brainer solution either. You could be right though. I guess the main thing to consider is what people really want. Would animations and showing the hood down draped around the shoulders be the optimal solution? Of course. Is it worth the work.... probably not, though Dark Age of Camelot had it and Mythic was merged with Bioware to help create this game. But thats really unimportant. The part people REALLY care about is if the hood is on, or if the head is uncovered. Make a checkbox in the UI that says "Pretend this char is a twilek or wearing one of the helmets that hides hoods". Which would basically be changing something like if(character.race == "twilek") { //hide hode code here } to if(character.race == "twilek" || character.setting.hidehood) { // hide hood code here } so all you would have to do is add an or (the ||) to your if statement and have it check also the boolean variable (true or false) for hide hood. The hour or two I quoted should be far shorter, but it covers testing, compiling, and finding this particular piece of code. Is this a be all end all solution? Of course not. Would most people who have lamented the lack of a hood toggle be satisfied? Probably. I know I would be. There is nothing stopping them from adding in animations later if that is what they want. Something is better than nothing in this case, and it doesnt really have to be all or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 if(character.race == "twilek") { //hide hode code here } to if(character.race == "twilek" || character.setting.hidehood) { // hide hood code here } Pseudocode is such wondrous thing, isn't it? If it actually was that easy, then it should be implemented soon. However, we have no idea how the game code actually handles twileks and hoods, and are working from an assumption that it works something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingonaut Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Which would basically be changing something like if(character.race == "twilek") { //hide hode code here } to if(character.race == "twilek" || character.setting.hidehood) { // hide hood code here } I don't even know how to respond to such a view. Are you actually insinuating that all of the developers for this game are so stupid that they can't even think of something so simple? If it was really that easy do you truly believe they wouldn't have done it? Why don't you go solve the world's coding problems while you're at it? Edited July 19, 2014 by Pingonaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 ... psuedo-code example for hood toggle ... Wow, can you also solve the Halting Problem? It's pretty simple: "Write a program that, given a program and an input to the program, determines whether the program will eventually halt when run with that input." That sounds even simpler than a hood toggle, doesn't it? However, It has been mathematically proven that a general algorithm to solve the halting problem cannot exist. The point? Sometimes, things that appear simple are not, especially when it comes to computer programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'd also wish there would be a hood toggle, although the main issues seems to be tied to the fact that the hood down is most of the time just a removal of the hood. So when the hood is down, there's in fact no hood down on the back of the character. So if players can settle down for a hood / no hood toggle it's pretty easy to code otherwise they'd have to add the polys and update all associated textures which is quite a job considering the amount of gear in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrulin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Pseudocode is such wondrous thing, isn't it? If it actually was that easy, then it should be implemented soon. However, we have no idea how the game code actually handles twileks and hoods, and are working from an assumption that it works something like that. It depends on what the developers want to do. If they do not like that implementation (no animations or visible hanging hood) then they probably still wont do it. It doesnt make what I wrote wrong however. I don't even know how to respond to such a view. Are you actually insinuating that all of the developers for this game are so stupid that they can't even think of something so simple? If it was really that easy do you truly believe they wouldn't have done it? Why don't you go solve the world's coding problems while you're at it? I did not imply they were stupid. It is possible that they have not considered that as a makeshift solution that would make some people (possibly even most) happy. I honestly do not see how "the world's problems" can be equated to a hood toggle in a video game. Wow, can you also solve the Halting Problem? It's pretty simple: "Write a program that, given a program and an input to the program, determines whether the program will eventually halt when run with that input." That sounds even simpler than a hood toggle, doesn't it? However, It has been mathematically proven that a general algorithm to solve the halting problem cannot exist. The point? Sometimes, things that appear simple are not, especially when it comes to computer programming. I dont think implementing a UI checkbox, giving it a boolean variable, and adding it as an or to the logic that already exists in the game is equivalent to determining the outcome of an undefined program with undefined input. As a whole, I seem to be getting negative responses from people about trying to be helpful. I know everyone likes beating up on the guy who looks like he is attacking the devs, but that's just not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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