Why do people join Dark Side?

[BrianDavion]

Jedi get power very fast as well. They can fight as children.

 

yeah, but can they do as well?

[Xilizhra]

But riding on the original posters naive assumption that everyone starts off light, someone would most likely go to the dark side out of need for what it offers. Have you seen what the dark side does to you? someone at tier 5 in this game looks worse than someone who has been doing both meth and crack. The dark side is a powerful narcotic.

What I find interesting is that a Sith Sorcerer can be rapidly firing lightning at enemies for hours on end, for weeks at a time, and still never show any signs of it in terms of physical decay, if they behave in a light-sided manner. Which makes me wonder if this corruption thing as presented in TOR has any lore significance at all, or if morality itself really determines what you look like.

[wainot-keel]

What I find interesting is that a Sith Sorcerer can be rapidly firing lightning at enemies for hours on end, for weeks at a time, and still never show any signs of it in terms of physical decay, if they behave in a light-sided manner. Which makes me wonder if this corruption thing as presented in TOR has any lore significance at all, or if morality itself really determines what you look like.

 

I'd say it's just a morality thing.

The Dark Side corruption is tied to the force, but non-force sensitives (like bounty hunters and troopers), can get their faces messed up in the exact same manner as force users.....

[errant_knight]

Because being powerful and passionate is way more fun than being powerful and unemotional. That being said, I enjoy playing a jedi who occasionally goes ds, and a sith who goes light equally. Complicated morality is more interesting than 100 either way. Edited December 24, 2013 by errant_knight

[Callaron]

What I find interesting is that a Sith Sorcerer can be rapidly firing lightning at enemies for hours on end, for weeks at a time, and still never show any signs of it in terms of physical decay, if they behave in a light-sided manner. Which makes me wonder if this corruption thing as presented in TOR has any lore significance at all, or if morality itself really determines what you look like.

 

I always see it the following way:

 

Every Empire character is Darkside. The only difference is that you don't see it on their character sheet.

All of them do atrocious things in the name of personal advancement, or in some cases because they seek to bring "change".

Even when you play a "Lightside" Sith, they will often go on about the power of the Darkside in the various dialogues.

As for the darkside corruption not showing, I always figured it takes decades to get to the point where the corruption takes such a toll that it shows outwardly - or some very powerful darkside rituals (sorcery) that place a huge strain on their bodies.

 

If I recall correctly even Darth Bane didn't show Darkside corruption, he just withdrew from public view because of his Orbalisk armor (or whether those symbionts were called).

Palpatine; the poster boy for Darkside corruption took many decades to get where he was - it wasn't just that one force lightning attack in Ep III that did it.

Also, I despise the whole "dark side corruption for everyone!" system - it's always been one of the biggest lore breakers for me.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Callaron

[GibsonMcCoy]

If you've ever played the old table top West End Games Star Wars RPG, the Dark Side was more powerful because for every Dark Side point you had, you got to roll and extra die when using Force Powers.

 

You could easily give into using the dark side abilities and gaining more and more dark side points, thus, in that game's rules, giving you more power as a follower of the Dark Side.

 

But if you've read Annihilation,

which takes place after the TOR story line, a very Light Side Jedi Master, Gnost-Dural used Force Choke on an Imperial just to pass a Darth.

 

[atomic_coffee]

because pointless violence is fun. if it isn't, you're doing something wrong.

[Aeneas_Falco]

 

But if you've read Annihilation,

which takes place after the TOR story line, a very Light Side Jedi Master, Gnost-Dural used Force Choke on an Imperial just to pass a Darth.

 

Force Choke being defined as 'dark side' in some EU sources has always been silly to me. Why is choking someone 'dark side' but running him through with your light saber is not? Luke slicing and dicing dozens of Jabba's minions on the Sail Barge is totally cool, but that force choke on the Gamorrean was a dangerous flirt with the dark side?

 

Because of how ridiculous that sounds, I've always ignored EU sources that define force choke as an exclusively dark side ability. To me whether or not it is light or dark side depends on how it used and who it is used on. Vader force choking an Imperial officer simply because he displeased him is dark side, Luke force choking a thug to rescue a friend from a space gangster is not. Also force choking could also potentially be a non-lethal attack, just using enough force to render a victim unconscious but still very much alive and well and undamaged. Depending on the circumstances it was used, to a light sider that could make it even preferable to using the light saber (guaranteed to kill or maim).

[captaincr]

The dark side of the force leads to powers that some would consider to be un-natural.

 

We've seen examples of Force Choke (Luke) use by light side users, in one of the books Jedi vs Sith they talk about a Jedi using Force Lightning.

 

Jedi just chose to really not use those moves because they're fairly sadistic. Force Lightning doesn't kill you all at once, you suffer, same with Force Choke.

 

Where the un-natural comes in is the creation of monsters by ancient Sith, blowing up Stars to kill millions, changing the natural order of things, delaying or stopping death, sucking up people's life forces to gain immortality, using people's suffering to gain strength and energy. Those are the true dark side powers.

 

When a Jedi kills for the most part they try to do it quick with the least amount of suffering possible. With a Sith, they aren't killing for no good reason, but when they decide to kill they savor it, lengthen it and gain strength from it.

[Xilizhra]

Force Choke being defined as 'dark side' in some EU sources has always been silly to me. Why is choking someone 'dark side' but running him through with your light saber is not? Luke slicing and dicing dozens of Jabba's minions on the Sail Barge is totally cool, but that force choke on the Gamorrean was a dangerous flirt with the dark side?

 

Because of how ridiculous that sounds, I've always ignored EU sources that define force choke as an exclusively dark side ability. To me whether or not it is light or dark side depends on how it used and who it is used on. Vader force choking an Imperial officer simply because he displeased him is dark side, Luke force choking a thug to rescue a friend from a space gangster is not. Also force choking could also potentially be a non-lethal attack, just using enough force to render a victim unconscious but still very much alive and well and undamaged. Depending on the circumstances it was used, to a light sider that could make it even preferable to using the light saber (guaranteed to kill or maim).

Force Choke specifically requires the user to channel their hatred. That's why Vader was so good at it; he hated a great many things, himself most of all. Similarly, Force Lightning requires that one channel a certain lust for power that not everyone has.

[theUndead]

Force Choke specifically requires the user to channel their hatred. That's why Vader was so good at it; he hated a great many things, himself most of all. Similarly, Force Lightning requires that one channel a certain lust for power that not everyone has.

 

Isn't force lightening channeled by fueling anger through the fingers, and the more anger is released the more potent the lightening becomes?

[Rabenschwinge]

Actually, you do need to obey the Jedi Council in order to be considered light side.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi states it plainly.

 

The Jedi Order is not identical to the light side, though. Yoda doesn't teach Luke any rules on Dagobah, he teaches him how to listen to the Force and how to make his own mind on what is right and wrong. The Jedi Order does have strict rules and you need to obey them to be Jedi, but not in order to be light side.

 

I don't really like the concept of Gray Jedi because, if you call Qui-Gon such, it seems to clash somewhat with the films. Qui-Gon wasn't part of the council because of his defiance, yes, but he still was a respected member of the Jedi Order. He was even sent as ambassador to Naboo to negotiate an end of the Trade Federation's blockade.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Rabenschwinge

[Zerex_Kildron]

The Light Side restricts its users from gaining some knowledge/power.

I was always someone who preferred the Light Side over the Dark Side, because the Light Side offered serenity and control over yourself. I'm also addicted to knowledge, but since the code restricts me from actions that will give me knowledge I chose the Dark Side.

 

Example; the mission on Tython where you have to find out if two padawans are in love, they offer you a crystal if you tell their master they are not.

In my opinion those two padawans have failed their trials and even if I dont stop their training now by telling their master they are in love, I'm sure they will mess up their trial again because they lack what Jedi need.

 

I know they are doomed anyway, but this crystal of theirs is rare and has some history to it, I must preserve this crystal and its history by protecting it. (This is called Lorekeeping).

By protecting artifacts that may have some valuable research to them, research which may aid people who are in fact worthy of this (The two lovers were not, because they lack control) I create progress.

 

And progress is essential.

[Xilizhra]

The Light Side restricts its users from gaining some knowledge/power.

I was always someone who preferred the Light Side over the Dark Side, because the Light Side offered serenity and control over yourself. I'm also addicted to knowledge, but since the code restricts me from actions that will give me knowledge I chose the Dark Side.

 

Example; the mission on Tython where you have to find out if two padawans are in love, they offer you a crystal if you tell their master they are not.

In my opinion those two padawans have failed their trials and even if I dont stop their training now by telling their master they are in love, I'm sure they will mess up their trial again because they lack what Jedi need.

 

I know they are doomed anyway, but this crystal of theirs is rare and has some history to it, I must preserve this crystal and its history by protecting it. (This is called Lorekeeping).

By protecting artifacts that may have some valuable research to them, research which may aid people who are in fact worthy of this (The two lovers were not, because they lack control) I create progress.

 

And progress is essential.

Odds are high that the Order will get the crystal back somehow anyway, even without you taking that bribe.

[OddballEasyEight]

But the dark side is not more powerful so it is kinda pointless...

 

Really? Are you telling me that you would prefer to work for 50 years to be powerful enough to, say, defeat anyone in single combat instead of getting that power in a week?

[Xilizhra]

Really? Are you telling me that you would prefer to work for 50 years to be powerful enough to, say, defeat anyone in single combat instead of getting that power in a week?

It depends. Would the latter make me evil and physically deformed?

[Zerex_Kildron]

Odds are high that the Order will get the crystal back somehow anyway, even without you taking that bribe.

 

Many Force Users can block other Users from seeing there real reason, Palpatine did this with the Jedi during the Grand Plan. And many others, in this particular situation the Order did not know about the crystal being found by the couple, so that reduces the chance of the Order taking it back even more.

[Beniboybling]

Force Choke being defined as 'dark side' in some EU sources has always been silly to me. Why is choking someone 'dark side' but running him through with your light saber is not? Luke slicing and dicing dozens of Jabba's minions on the Sail Barge is totally cool, but that force choke on the Gamorrean was a dangerous flirt with the dark side?

 

Because of how ridiculous that sounds, I've always ignored EU sources that define force choke as an exclusively dark side ability. To me whether or not it is light or dark side depends on how it used and who it is used on. Vader force choking an Imperial officer simply because he displeased him is dark side, Luke force choking a thug to rescue a friend from a space gangster is not. Also force choking could also potentially be a non-lethal attack, just using enough force to render a victim unconscious but still very much alive and well and undamaged. Depending on the circumstances it was used, to a light sider that could make it even preferable to using the light saber (guaranteed to kill or maim).

Force Choke is a universal, not dark side power. But it is forbidden by the Jedi Council.

 

Taken from The Jedi Path:

 

In your heart, you know which abilities run counter to the Jedi Code. Yet during the last war, the raw power wielded by the Sith prompted some Jedi to match them in rage. Such miscalculations always end in tragedy...Forbidden Force techniques are marked by a loss of control. Using any of these techniques as a Jedi Knight is prohibited.

 

...

 

Force Grip This refinement of telekinesis works as an invisible extension of the hand, allowing Force-users to hoist enemies into the air or close off air from their trachea. It is truly a brutal and cruel application of the Force.

 

And I agree, at least in regards to Force Choke. Yes you can choke someone unconscious but it is unsurprisingly dangerous to do so as it can cause permanent brain damage or simply death. There are far more effective and less risky methods of incapacitating somebody. So in reality (and in so far in Star Wars mythos) Force Choke is going to be used either to kill or to intimidate. Choking someone to death is not a benign way to kill for obvious reasons and would probably result in them passing in a state of agony and terror, much better to eliminate them humanely.

 

And the latter? Well that's just torture, and that's against the Jedi Code for obvious reasons.

 

But given that it does not require the dark side to wield, and can be used for non-lethal purposes, it is officially a universal power. But it is again forbidden for a Jedi to practice, and I think the reasons for that are quite clear.

 

EDIT: Personally I think the Luke using Force Choke (the definitive Vader move) in Jedi, his black robes and certain other actions he performed in those opening events where hinting at Luke going down the path of the dark side.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Beniboybling

[DARTHOSIRUS]

since light and dark is equal in terms of power, and if the main reason people join dark side is to be more powerful, then there's no point to joining dark side.

 

Lore error?

 

because they are wicked, selfish, bloodsucking, power hungry, agents of satan who believe in anarchy, corruption, chaos, and greed. They are basically miley cyrus with lightsabers. Only god can judge them in the end

Edited December 29, 2013 by DARTHOSIRUS

[Frenesi]

Sith also have a lot of artifacts and rituals, that actually make them stronger in force. Also to gain full power as jedi you need deep self-control. Sith use their emotions, which is much more easy. Unless you are some cold-blooded jerk, going darkside is much more easy and takes much less training for the same level of power.

[Aztang]

Personalities tie into the choice, as we all have our views and opinions and both sides of the force reach to us on a level we accept.

 

If you are a Star Wars fan you know the depth of each side so your choice was made long ago.

[BradTheImpaler]

The dark side can trigger people to do some pretty evil stuff, but so can any ideology that enforces social stagnation.

"Peace is a lie", because when the current order is as corrupt as the Republic is, it will inevitably be upheld by some use of force (or Force).

 

Yuthura Ban pretty much sums it up: "Sometimes anger and hatred are so deserved and right. Sometimes things change because of it.: Unfortunately her plan to use anger and hatred in a crusade against slavery is an exception rather than a rule among the Sith, but there's something worth at least considering there.

 

I'd prefer change guided by the "Light" (i.e. reasoned emotional detachment), but when that is claimed in service of the status quo, anger might be a necessity.

[Kyneris]

Dark Jedi and Sith are two different things. Dark Jedi is selfish, Sith actually believe in a cause. I don't think it's about good/evil.

I think you generalize things here, Dark Jedi and Sith can have very similar ideologies and/or causes and can be equally selfish, it all depends on the person. The only real difference is that a Dark Jedi is a confirmed Darksider, a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side. A Sith is a member of the Sith order, who isn't necessarily a Darksider.

 

That's just tactics. I'm talking more about ideology, the reason why they join dark side if it isn't more powerful.

When it comes to the practical application of the Force, I think Lightsiders are more restrained when compared to Darksiders. Sith and Dark Jedi are more prone to use the Force (more specifically the Dark powers like lightning) to accomplish tasks/challenges which can lead to direct results more quickly. Where a Jedi might fail to convince someone to see his way with just words, a Dark Jedi or Sith can just fry his opponents into submitting with Force Lightning.

 

This example is what I think Yoda means with easier and more seductive, the Dark Side encourages you to use your power to get your way, the Light Side does not. And because the Dark Side often results in quicker and more direct results than the Light Side, it is perceived by some as being stronger while it's not.

 

The thing should be emphasized a bit more in SW is Dark Side =/= Evil and Light Side =/= Good.

 

The thing that should be emphasised that the Light Side = Good and the Dark Side = Evil. However, the Jedi don't have the monopoly on what is good and the not all Sith are evil.

 

What is good? What is evil? Ask 10 people, you get 10 answers. Good and evil are all relative.

The great irony here is that there is no moral relativism when it comes to Force users. There is an invisible, unchangable "entity" out there that is constantly influencing (some to a greater extent than others) the minds of people. The Force, by it's very nature, removes a portion of free will when it comes to those strong in it. Those who do compassionate altruism attune themselves more and more to the Light Side and those who commit atricities draw closer to the Dark Side.

[Xilizhra]

The dark side can trigger people to do some pretty evil stuff, but so can any ideology that enforces social stagnation.

"Peace is a lie", because when the current order is as corrupt as the Republic is, it will inevitably be upheld by some use of force (or Force).

 

Yuthura Ban pretty much sums it up: "Sometimes anger and hatred are so deserved and right. Sometimes things change because of it.: Unfortunately her plan to use anger and hatred in a crusade against slavery is an exception rather than a rule among the Sith, but there's something worth at least considering there.

 

I'd prefer change guided by the "Light" (i.e. reasoned emotional detachment), but when that is claimed in service of the status quo, anger might be a necessity.

Can't you point out to her that she's starting to deliberately reject compassion, which is the reason she began her crusade in the first place? That's the real issue with the dark side: for most people, it sucks you in and starts to change you, making you feel that anything can be solved with the right application of negative emotions.

 

The great irony here is that there is no moral relativism when it comes to Force users. There is an invisible, unchangable "entity" out there that is constantly influencing (some to a greater extent than others) the minds of people. The Force, by it's very nature, removes a portion of free will when it comes to those strong in it. Those who do compassionate altruism attune themselves more and more to the Light Side and those who commit atricities draw closer to the Dark Side.

Those who use dark side powers but don't take the actions that the dark side encourages, such as the LS Sith Warrior and Inquisitor, are apparent oddballs.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Xilizhra

[Kyneris]

Those who use dark side powers but don't take the actions that the dark side encourages, such as the LS Sith Warrior and Inquisitor, are apparent oddballs.

Well, they are. The Sith is an organization which plays into what the Dark Side encourages and it's not by coincidence that the people such a system produces are pretty much all psychopaths. The very few who can refrain from such actions would indeed be considered oddballs by Sith standards.

 

One thing I'd like to add is that even though Force Lightning and other Dark Side powers are inherently corrupting when used, a one-time (or at the least, very rare) usage does not always result in an instant fall ot the Dark Side. It would depend on the circumstances such as the emotional state and the intention of the Lightsider using such a power.

 

A Lightside Sith (or a lightsider in general) can feasibly use a Dark power under certain conditions and get away with it.