Why do people join Dark Side?

[Xilizhra]

It doesnt matter what wookiepedia states as none of that is a first party source. Lucas and Knoll have both said that Sidious was trying to kill Windu the ENTIRE fight. Theres no disputing it. Sidious was lying because he knew he was on the losing end of the duel, which is why he plays it up to Anakin to save him.

No, but Ian is a first-party source regarding the Force mask thing.

[Girdeux]

No, but Ian is a first-party source regarding the Force mask thing.

 

Not at all. Like i said its disputed by Knoll in the commentary. Knoll > Ian. The movies show Palpatines skin boiling from the heat of the lightning being reflected back on his face. Clearly whats shown in the movies has no bearing what so ever..

Edited January 6, 2014 by Girdeux

[Xilizhra]

Not at all. Like i said its disputed by Knoll in the commentary. Knoll > Ian. The movies show Palpatines skin boiling from the heat of the lightning being reflected back on his face. Clearly whats shown in the movies has no bearing what so ever..

The fact that lightning has never caused that injury pattern to anyone else, ever, makes me skeptical that the lightning was actually doing the damage instead of just destroying the mask.

[Sazztam]

A jedi's goals are a life long endeavor to keep peace and harmony within the force (as I understand it). This is a process that is not accomplished in a lifetime but over the ages. For a jedi to be powerful he/she could only really be judged after they have passed on and their deeds scrutinized. Did they contribute to the jedi's philosophy and make decisions in the proper place and time? A sith on the other hand has a much more immediate and personal agenda. With his own set of rules he is able to move and act much more freely and make decisions based on the moment/personal plan. This freedom to alter goals and act on whim would give the very real sense of quick power and it certainly would be easier to follow than an age old orders dictates.

 

Anyways, that's my theory

[ShadowMudkip]

The fact that lightning has never caused that injury pattern to anyone else, ever, makes me skeptical that the lightning was actually doing the damage instead of just destroying the mask.

 

The power of a force lightning attack can be controlled by the caster. Mace Windu was a serious threat to Sidious. If Sidious, master of force lightning, put all his strength into an attack its completely plausible that Sidious' face could get messed up.

 

Besides, if it really was a force mask, why didn't he reapply it later? In politics, image is everything.

Edited January 7, 2014 by ShadowMudkip

[LordGarmaZabi]

The power of a force lightning attack can be controlled by the caster. Mace Windu was a serious threat to Sidious. If Sidious, master of force lightning, put all his strength into an attack its completely plausible that Sidious' face could get messed up.

 

Besides, if it really was a force mask, why didn't he reapply it later? In politics, image is everything.

 

Sympathy, and to make the Jedi look bad. Remember, he says that his deformities were the result of an attempted Jedi assassination.

[Xilizhra]

The power of a force lightning attack can be controlled by the caster. Mace Windu was a serious threat to Sidious. If Sidious, master of force lightning, put all his strength into an attack its completely plausible that Sidious' face could get messed up.

 

Besides, if it really was a force mask, why didn't he reapply it later? In politics, image is everything.

But he didn't put all of his energy into it, as, while it screwed up his face, it didn't do anything else; he could still speak coherently, for instance. When he hit Windu with the full blast of his power afterward, all he could do was scream and twitch. As for why it wasn't reapplied, I have a feeling it literally couldn't be after being destroyed by the Force.

[Beniboybling]

Concerning the Darth Sidious disfiguration debate:

 

The lightning did indeed dispel a Force Mask of which the ability has been canonised, first the ability was proposed by the Star Wars Role Playing Game of which a representative says the following:

 

There are problems with both these ideas: The idea that he was physically damaged by the Force lightning doesn't match Return of the Jedi. Luke was being hit by Force lightning for some time, and he wasn't scarred like that. On the other hand, if Palpatine was using an Illusion-assisted Disguised check… he couldn't possibly keep it up continually. Moreover, Illusion is a mind-influencing Force power. It doesn't work on droids or recordings (in other words, someone might notice that he doesn't look the same in recorded speeches), nor would it work when projecting a holographic image across the galaxy. Finally, one would wonder why he maintained the illusion in his earlier holographic appearances as Darth Sidious. It would seem more prudent to "turn it off" to preserve the Palpatine identity.

 

...

 

Palpatine, who has delved extensively into Sith lore, was using an almost-forgotten technique to hide his true self.

 

It was also hinted in Darth Plagueis that Sidious' disfiguration was the result of study of the dark side:

 

SIDIOUS: "Will I eventually be physically transformed?"

 

PLAGUEIS: "Into some aged, pale-skinned, raspy-voiced, yellow-eyed monster you mean?

 

And in 2005 a Lucas Licensing endorsed comic called Star Wars: Visionaries was published containing several short visual stories, one of these was called Sithisis and it depicted - without dialogue - Sidious in his 'scarred and deformed' form performing a ritual that turned him into the charming, unseeming Senator Palpatine.

 

This event is dated prior to his attempted arrest at the hands of Mace Windu, and therefore it is highly likely to be a demonstration of the mask technique introduced by the Star Wars Role Playing Game.

 

Furthemore the author, Derek Thompson, was in regular contact with none other than George Lucas when constructing this piece, and also had a 45 minute interview with none other than Ian McDiarmid.

 

I don't know about you, but I think a C-Canon source endorsed by George Lucas himself overrides some likely off hand and vague comments made in the ROTS commentary. Sidious' face was not melted. Period!

[Beniboybling]

And concerning the Mace Windu vs Sidious debate, I believe Sidious threw the fight and I believe there were a lot of factors involved. But I'd rather not explain that in length, instead I'd direct you to

video and this thread.

 

Both are very good and very informed interpretations, I suggest you peruse both.

[Aurbere]

Concerning Sidious' face:

 

"Always two there are"- not only master and apprentice, but persona and true face. Unmasked by deflected lightning during his duel with Mace Windu, the Sith Lord's true face is revealed to the world.

- ROTS Visual Dictionary

 

And concerning Mace vs. Sidious, I think it's obvious Mace won the duel. The novel makes it pretty clear that Mace Windu won the duel. What happens after is Sidious acting weak to play to Anakin's emotions.

[Beniboybling]

Concerning Sidious' face:

 

- ROTS Visual Dictionary

 

And concerning Mace vs. Sidious, I think it's obvious Mace won the duel. The novel makes it pretty clear that Mace Windu won the duel. What happens after is Sidious acting weak to play to Anakin's emotions.

Nice find!

 

Now I here a lot of folks saying that, but there is far more to that duel than who won and who lost. Mace won the duel yes, but Sidious allowed him to win. Not only be allowing Windu to push him onto the balcony but by channelling Anakin's fear through himself and allowing Windu to draw upon it via Vaapad and use it against him.

 

And with these advantages, provided to him by Sidious, Mace won the duel.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Nice find!

 

Now I here a lot of folks saying that, but there is far more to that duel than who won and who lost. Mace won the duel yes, but Sidious allowed him to win. Not only be allowing Windu to push him onto the balcony but by channelling Anakin's fear through himself and allowing Windu to draw upon it via Vaapad and use it against him.

And with these advantages, provided to him by Sidious, Mace won the duel.

 

I always forget that part of the novel. Though, IIRC, that came after the part where the duel was called an impasse. Whatever, I guess.

[Beniboybling]

I always forget that part of the novel. Though, IIRC, that came after the part where the duel was called an impasse. Whatever, I guess.

No this was after, when Windu pushed Sidious to the ledge.

[Aurbere]

No this was after, when Windu pushed Sidious to the ledge.

 

I'll have to read it again.

[cool-dude]

The illusion of freedom and power. Edited January 8, 2014 by cool-dude

[Beniboybling]

I'll have to read it again.

Take a look at this thread instead, its quite long but its also quite enlightening and quotes the whole scene.

 

Also for the extract:

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.

 

One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.

 

...

 

In the Force, Mace could feel the monster inside Anakin Skywalker, a real monster, too real, one that was eating him alive from the inside out.

 

Fear.

 

This was the wound Anakin had taken. This was the hurt that had him shaking and stammering and too weak to stand. Some black fear had hatched like fever wasps inside the young Knight's brain, and it was killing him.

Because he is Mace Windu, within a second the man of sand is stone once more: pure Jedi Master, weighing coldly the risk of facing the last Dark Lord of the Sith without the chosen one—

 

Against the risk of facing the last Dark Lord of the Sith with a chosen one eaten alive by fear.

 

And because he is Mace Windu, the choice is no choice at all.

 

"Anakin, wait in the Council Chamber until we get back."

"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."

 

"Do you see, Anakin? Do you?" Palpatine's voice once again had the broken cadence of a frightened old man's. "Didn't I warn you of the Jedi and their treason?"

 

"Save your twisted words, my lord. There are no politicians here. The Sith will never regain control of the Republic. It's over. You've lost." Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."

 

Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.

 

"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

 

Lighting blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.

 

"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"

 

He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind—

 

And Palpatine was not afraid. Mace could feel it: he wasn't worried at all.

And if you watch the film the timing is all too perfect, as soon as Sidious is disarmed Anakin rushes in, Sidious planned the whole thing like he does everything. The entire event was orchestrated to fall into Sidious' favour and there is no chance he could have lost. In such a sense he was never truly defeated, after all “A fight is never a goal in itself."

[PatT]

 

Sith and Dark/Fallen Jedi want to brandish that power. They want all who can see and hear them that they have power others lack. Further, they always want more power than they have and will seek out any opportunity to do so....even if that power is fleeting.

 

And this is exactly why they aren't powerful. One with real power need not wear it on their sleeves for people to believe it exists. People who have no real power have to become bullies to prove they have what is, in fact, a coward's bluff. In the end, the ones with real power will be proven in the end. Much like the one who laughs the loudest is the one fooled first.

 

Bluster is not to be confused with power.

[Aurbere]

Take a look at this thread instead, its quite long but its also quite enlightening and quotes the whole scene.

 

Also for the extract:

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.

 

One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.

 

...

 

In the Force, Mace could feel the monster inside Anakin Skywalker, a real monster, too real, one that was eating him alive from the inside out.

 

Fear.

 

This was the wound Anakin had taken. This was the hurt that had him shaking and stammering and too weak to stand. Some black fear had hatched like fever wasps inside the young Knight's brain, and it was killing him.

Because he is Mace Windu, within a second the man of sand is stone once more: pure Jedi Master, weighing coldly the risk of facing the last Dark Lord of the Sith without the chosen one—

 

Against the risk of facing the last Dark Lord of the Sith with a chosen one eaten alive by fear.

 

And because he is Mace Windu, the choice is no choice at all.

 

"Anakin, wait in the Council Chamber until we get back."

"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."

 

"Do you see, Anakin? Do you?" Palpatine's voice once again had the broken cadence of a frightened old man's. "Didn't I warn you of the Jedi and their treason?"

 

"Save your twisted words, my lord. There are no politicians here. The Sith will never regain control of the Republic. It's over. You've lost." Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."

 

Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.

 

"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

 

Lighting blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.

 

"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"

 

He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind—

 

And Palpatine was not afraid. Mace could feel it: he wasn't worried at all.

And if you watch the film the timing is all too perfect, as soon as Sidious is disarmed Anakin rushes in, Sidious planned the whole thing like he does everything. The entire event was orchestrated to fall into Sidious' favour and there is no chance he could have lost. In such a sense he was never truly defeated, after all “A fight is never a goal in itself."

 

I've seen the thread before.

 

But to your posted extract, I was saying that the mention of an impasse between them came before said 'fear' came into play. Which is true.

[PatT]

Since Light and Dark is equal in terms of power, and if the main reason people join Dark Side is to be more powerful, then there's no point to joining Dark Side.

 

Lore error?

 

To answer your question quite truthfully? Because I understand this is a game, and I have already experienced the stories and writing of the Republic side (which cannot, of itself, be called good--- there are plenty of "evil" Jedi and stupid gunslingers) and I wish to see the excellent writing of the Imperial (not necessarily "evil") storylines. For that is what this is, a game, crafted and written by writers and craftspeople for me to enjoy, which is why I spent coin on it.

 

They build upon the writing and craftspeople who went before them, and I wish to experience it, since, especially the Imperial Agent storyline is so well done (and mine is light 4 - not evil) and the sith Sorc storyline (which I am just beginning). While I enjoyed endgame raiding, it is too dependent upon the whims of other players so it is up and down, while the storylines are enjoyable when there are no other raiders online.

 

That and any side can enjoy GSF, though in many cases, teamwork makes a difference there as well.

 

In other words, it's not really that I prefer a "side." I just prefer to explore all the game has to offer, and since someone went to the obvious trouble of writing such wonderful storylines as Imperial Agent and Sith Sorcerer, I wish to enjoy them! My choices are not necessarily dark, but with the Sorc, a female voice actress made it so obviously dark (the voice is scathing and sarcastic, and cries out to be roleplayed in the darkside)... that is what I am doing; roleplaying!

[Beniboybling]

I've seen the thread before.

 

But to your posted extract, I was saying that the mention of an impasse between them came before said 'fear' came into play. Which is true.

Your right, I misread. Anyways, at least I saved you a couple of minutes of your life.

 

And yeah, her blogs are pretty good, there are some others I want to read but damn they are long.

[Beniboybling]

To answer your question quite truthfully? Because I understand this is a game, and I have already experienced the stories and writing of the Republic side (which cannot, of itself, be called good--- there are plenty of "evil" Jedi and stupid gunslingers) and I wish to see the excellent writing of the Imperial (not necessarily "evil") storylines. For that is what this is, a game, crafted and written by writers and craftspeople for me to enjoy, which is why I spent coin on it.

 

They build upon the writing and craftspeople who went before them, and I wish to experience it, since, especially the Imperial Agent storyline is so well done (and mine is light 4 - not evil) and the sith Sorc storyline (which I am just beginning). While I enjoyed endgame raiding, it is too dependent upon the whims of other players so it is up and down, while the storylines are enjoyable when there are no other raiders online.

 

That and any side can enjoy GSF, though in many cases, teamwork makes a difference there as well.

 

In other words, it's not really that I prefer a "side." I just prefer to explore all the game has to offer, and since someone went to the obvious trouble of writing such wonderful storylines as Imperial Agent and Sith Sorcerer, I wish to enjoy them! My choices are not necessarily dark, but with the Sorc, a female voice actress made it so obviously dark (the voice is scathing and sarcastic, and cries out to be roleplayed in the darkside)... that is what I am doing; roleplaying!

Well that kind of answers the question from a lore perspective as well, its not all about power, its about the experience as well. And the 'dark side experience' if you will is more appealing to others.

 

They do after all, have cookies.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Your right, I misread. Anyways, at least I saved you a couple of minutes of your life.

 

And yeah, her blogs are pretty good, there are some others I want to read but damn they are long.

 

Silver is a dude.

[Beniboybling]

Silver is a dude.

:eek:

 

Oops, his avatar used to look like a girl, oh well.

 

My perceptions of him are now messed up, /sad.

[Aurbere]

Your right, I misread. Anyways, at least I saved you a couple of minutes of your life.

 

And yeah, her blogs are pretty good, there are some others I want to read but damn they are long.

 

Quite long, lol.

 

Anywho, back to the main topic, Yoda and Dooku have a discussion over this on Vjun. It isn't from a philosophical perspective, but more about what the Dark Side can give a person. I can post the excerpt if anyone wants me to.

[Beniboybling]

Quite long, lol.

 

Anywho, back to the main topic, Yoda and Dooku have a discussion over this on Vjun. It isn't from a philosophical perspective, but more about what the Dark Side can give a person. I can post the excerpt if anyone wants me to.

Please do actually, I read about that somewhere and the discussion sounds interesting.