Why do people join Dark Side?

[Beniboybling]

If both are equally powerful, then they are the same so neither is master and servant. Question is, why do people join dark side if they don't become more powerful?

Jedi serve others, rather than rule over them, for the good of the galaxy.

--Tenet of the Jedi Order

 

Light siders serve the Force whereas dark siders bend the Force to their will. Sure you can become as powerful either way but if you are a practioner of the light side you will always have to limit the amount of power you can exert. Whereas if you are a dark sider you can do what you want, use the fullest extent of your abilities etc.

 

For example you can be the most powerful Force User in the world but if you follow the light you can't blow up planets etc. not only does your moral code prevent you but the very nature of the light side restricts you from this ability.

 

There are many things that followers of the light therefore cannot do, that practitioners of the dark can.

 

But you still haven't answered my question, if both are equally powerful, why not choose the dark side?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Beniboybling

[StarWarsTrekker]

It is believed the dark side is a quicker easier way to get power, and in some cases more powerful. Depending on who you are, it can be. It's also more fun than playing a warrior boyscout monk thing.

[ShadowMudkip]

Jedi serve others, rather than rule over them, for the good of the galaxy.

--Tenet of the Jedi Order

 

Light siders serve the Force whereas dark siders bend the Force to their will. Sure you can become as powerful either way but if you are a practioner of the light side you will always have to limit the amount of power you can exert. Whereas if you are a dark sider you can do what you want, use the fullest extent of your abilities etc.

 

For example you can be the most powerful Force User in the world but if you follow the light you can't blow up planets etc. not only does your moral code prevent you but the very nature of the light side restricts you from this ability.

 

There are many things that followers of the light therefore cannot do, that practitioners of the dark can.

 

But you still haven't answered my question, if both are equally powerful, why not choose the dark side?

 

I think people choose the dark side because there are fewer restrictions. I personally believe the light side and dark side are of equal power, however they have distinctive characteristics that set them apart. I think people choose NOT to be a Jedi, rather than the dark side. Of course this comes from someone who believes the One Force theory.

[Beniboybling]

I think people choose the dark side because there are fewer restrictions. I personally believe the light side and dark side are of equal power, however they have distinctive characteristics that set them apart. I think people choose NOT to be a Jedi, rather than the dark side. Of course this comes from someone who believes the One Force theory.

Indeed, the OP seems to be erroneously assuming that because light and dark provide equal levels of power that somehow makes them identical. While rejecting all evidence to the contrary, wonderful!

[theUndead]

They have the same strength, not the same place in society.The Jedi are guardians of the peace, and servants to the people, and suppress their desires, and emotions. The Sith, they go out, they carve out power for themselves, and act as lords to those who are beneath them, and generally live as they see fit. In this way, the dark side could easily be seen as more appealing. It has also been stated that you can accumulate power more quickly by using the dark side.

 

While this is true, it should be noted that Jedi in many ways attain greater power than Sith because it takes much longer. When they learn to truly become one with the force their fighting strength and ferocity is quite intense. As well as their knowledge of the force. So yes joining the Sith is quicker but in the long run despite it being more appealing the Jedi are in fact more powerful.

[Beniboybling]

While this is true, it should be noted that Jedi in many ways attain greater power than Sith because it takes much longer. When they learn to truly become one with the force their fighting strength and ferocity is quite intense. As well as their knowledge of the force. So yes joining the Sith is quicker but in the long run despite it being more appealing the Jedi are in fact more powerful.

I disagree, I can't think of many Jedi who had reached the height of their power and achieved that kind of intense energy your talking about. Most Jedi simply die before that happens.

 

On the other side of the spectrum almost every Sith worth mentioning has explored the full scope of their power, and most of the most powerful Force Users ever are those who wielded the dark side, because you get there faster.

 

Really, if I wanted power, the dark side would be the first port of call. Most likely to achieve my full potential, and no restrictions on what I'm capable of doing, remembering all-powerful doesn't make you all-capable.

[ShadowMudkip]

Indeed, the OP seems to be erroneously assuming that because light and dark provide equal levels of power that somehow makes them identical. While rejecting all evidence to the contrary, wonderful!

 

By assuming that Light= good, and Dark=bad, you make it incredibly difficult to account for people like the Voss.

[theUndead]

I disagree, I can't think of many Jedi who had reached the height of their power and achieved that kind of intense energy your talking about. Most Jedi simply die before that happens.

 

On the other side of the spectrum almost every Sith worth mentioning has explored the full scope of their power, and most of the most powerful Force Users ever are those who wielded the dark side, because you get there faster.

 

Really, if I wanted power, the dark side would be the first port of call. Most likely to achieve my full potential, and no restrictions on what I'm capable of doing, remembering all-powerful doesn't make you all-capable.

 

I am not saying that it is easy, I am just saying that it is possible. I mean take Yoda for example. For many thousands of years he was considered the most powerful of the Jedi. A being who attained such perfection with the force that he became an unstoppable being of light. There is also Luke, who although had some dark side abilities remained true to the light side and thus went on to become as powerful as we know him to be.

 

I agree with you that turning to the dark side is the best course to gain power and fast but I also believe that you can still achieve said power and gain potential if you choose the light.

[ShadowMudkip]

I am not saying that it is easy, I am just saying that it is possible. I mean take Yoda for example. For many thousands of years he was considered the most powerful of the Jedi. A being who attained such perfection with the force that he became an unstoppable being of light. There is also Luke, who although had some dark side abilities remained true to the light side and thus went on to become as powerful as we know him to be.

 

I agree with you that turning to the dark side is the best course to gain power and fast but I also believe that you can still achieve said power and gain potential if you choose the light.

 

Yet, despite all that time of being a Jedi, Yoda got ROFLstomped by Sidious.

[theUndead]

Yet, despite all that time of being a Jedi, Yoda got ROFLstomped by Sidious.

 

This is true sadly. Like in the Revenge of the Sith novel. Where the line goes, "That the grand master of the Jedi order just didn't have it"

[Beniboybling]

I am not saying that it is easy, I am just saying that it is possible. I mean take Yoda for example. For many thousands of years he was considered the most powerful of the Jedi. A being who attained such perfection with the force that he became an unstoppable being of light. There is also Luke, who although had some dark side abilities remained true to the light side and thus went on to become as powerful as we know him to be.

 

I agree with you that turning to the dark side is the best course to gain power and fast but I also believe that you can still achieve said power and gain potential if you choose the light.

I don't its a question of greater power though, even Luke, with all his power, would struggle to defend against the energy unleashed by the Force Storm - especially at the hands of Darth Sidious. I think they can ultimately prove a match for powerful dark siders, but I don't think they become more powerful.

 

Ultimately, while I'd agree that light and dark are equal in terms of raw power, I think the dark side because its so liberated and so in touch with destruction and chaos, is a greater means of exerting power over others.

[Beniboybling]

Yet, despite all that time of being a Jedi, Yoda got ROFLstomped by Sidious.

Hardly, if you take the events of the film into account (which are of course relevant) then it becomes quite clear that Yoda and Sidious were nigh equally matched. Sidious was just more prepared in every sense of the word.

[Girdeux]

Hardly, if you take the events of the film into account (which are of course relevant) then it becomes quite clear that Yoda and Sidious were nigh equally matched. Sidious was just more prepared in every sense of the word.

 

If you take that portion of the novel events into account then Yoda stood no chance. Though that depends if you take the novel seriously with all the inconsistencies with the ROTS movie.

[Beniboybling]

If you take that portion of the novel events into account then Yoda stood no chance. Though that depends if you take the novel seriously with all the inconsistencies with the ROTS movie.

That's not taking the novel events into account, that's ignoring the events of the movie and choosing the novels interpretations. See

Sums up very well how the movie potrayed Yoda to be in fact winning.

 

So we have to reconcile the two, noting that the novel never says that Yoda is too weak, too slow, not powerful enough in the Force etc. but that he "just didn't have it." Have what? Luck? Experience? The will of the Force?

 

To me I feel that Sidious was just better prepared, he had been preparing to face the Jedi for years, to fight them in this exact way, whereas Yoda had been sitting around meditating, he wasn't such a practiced warrior, he wasn't very clever in combat. On top of that its implied that this was the will of the Force, his fate had already been decided.

 

I think there is more too it than Yoda didn't have a high enough midichlorian count.

[Xilizhra]

That's not taking the novel events into account, that's ignoring the events of the movie and choosing the novels interpretations. See

Sums up very well how the movie potrayed Yoda to be in fact winning.

 

So we have to reconcile the two, noting that the novel never says that Yoda is too weak, too slow, not powerful enough in the Force etc. but that he "just didn't have it." Have what? Luck? Experience? The will of the Force?

 

To me I feel that Sidious was just better prepared, he had been preparing to face the Jedi for years, to fight them in this exact way, whereas Yoda had been sitting around meditating, he wasn't such a practiced warrior, he wasn't very clever in combat. On top of that its implied that this was the will of the Force, his fate had already been decided.

 

I think there is more too it than Yoda didn't have a high enough midichlorian count.

Regarding this video... the maker of it seems to put rather too high an emphasis on singular possible interpretations of Sidious' facial expressions. Sidious might have been trying to leave the first time, but he can't possibly have been trying to depart the battle the second time the maker claims, as there's no way it'd happen in time to actually escape Yoda, so it's clearly just taking a position of more advantageous ground. The maker also seems to ignore that Yoda being calm and Sidious angry is just them channeling their respective sides of the Force. The original script doesn't have canon status compared to what was actually shown on screen; for instance, the ANH script claimed that Han was just being a blowhard and a bad liar when he claimed that the Millennium Falcon had made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs, but because it wasn't shown well enough onscreen, it was eventually adopted as non-canon, with the Kessel run just being a space oddity where "twelve parsecs" is meaningful. And the final beam duel seems to have happened not because Yoda was stronger, as he didn't actually push the lightning away from him any; rather, Yoda just walks forward so that the energy explosion whacks both of them. But by that point, Sidious probably had the fight.

[Beniboybling]

Regarding this video... the maker of it seems to put rather too high an emphasis on singular possible interpretations of Sidious' facial expressions. Sidious might have been trying to leave the first time, but he can't possibly have been trying to depart the battle the second time the maker claims, as there's no way it'd happen in time to actually escape Yoda, so it's clearly just taking a position of more advantageous ground. The maker also seems to ignore that Yoda being calm and Sidious angry is just them channeling their respective sides of the Force. The original script doesn't have canon status compared to what was actually shown on screen; for instance, the ANH script claimed that Han was just being a blowhard and a bad liar when he claimed that the Millennium Falcon had made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs, but because it wasn't shown well enough onscreen, it was eventually adopted as non-canon, with the Kessel run just being a space oddity where "twelve parsecs" is meaningful. And the final beam duel seems to have happened not because Yoda was stronger, as he didn't actually push the lightning away from him any; rather, Yoda just walks forward so that the energy explosion whacks both of them. But by that point, Sidious probably had the fight.

I agree there is a certain level of interpretation, but at the same time I think he interprets the choreography well, Yoda was weathering Sidious' attacks and pushing is blade back. I also feel there is a distinct difference between the anger Sidious expresses in this battle and the joy he expresses in other duels when he has the upper hand.

 

Also note that he wasn't saying Sidious was fleeing from the battle, but falling back because he was being overwhelmed, or at least that's how I feel that particular piece of choreography was showing.

 

And yes, scripts aren't canon, but blanket ignoring is not a wise move. All information is relevant and should be taken into account, and to me that simply reinforces the fact that they were trying to portray Sidious as struggling.

 

And at the end, Yoda quite clearly has the advantage, he's pushing the energy back at Sidious who is clearly being overwhelmed whereas Yoda is not and a specific scene is dedicated to showing him struggling then overcoming it.

 

Altogether I think they were trying to show that these folks are equally matched, and that Sidious had a reason to fear Yoda. And you'd be hard pressed to find conclusive evidence in that scene showing that Sidious was winning.

[Xilizhra]

I agree there is a certain level of interpretation, but at the same time I think he interprets the choreography well, Yoda was weathering Sidious' attacks and pushing is blade back. I also feel there is a distinct difference between the anger Sidious expresses in this battle and the joy he expresses in other duels when he has the upper hand.

 

Also note that he wasn't saying Sidious was fleeing from the battle, but falling back because he was being overwhelmed, or at least that's how I feel that particular piece of choreography was showing.

 

And yes, scripts aren't canon, but blanket ignoring is not a wise move. All information is relevant and should be taken into account, and to me that simply reinforces the fact that they were trying to portray Sidious as struggling.

 

And at the end, Yoda quite clearly has the advantage, he's pushing the energy back at Sidious who is clearly being overwhelmed whereas Yoda is not and a specific scene is dedicated to showing him struggling then overcoming it.

 

Altogether I think they were trying to show that these folks are equally matched, and that Sidious had a reason to fear Yoda. And you'd be hard pressed to find conclusive evidence in that scene showing that Sidious was winning.

Certainly, Yoda is no pushover, and I'd even go so far as to say he has an edge in lightsaber combat... but I think a large part of that is due to his size; he's a harder target for Sidious than most other Jedi, whereas for Yoda, every human is a relatively easy target. When locked in a lightsaber duel, Yoda might be able to carry his edge to victory, but when the fight shifted to simply using the Force itself, Sidious took the advantage and ran with it. And Yoda was definitely losing at the end; he was unable to push back Sidious' lightning with the Force, so he had to physically move forward to cause an explosion to hopefully knock both of them away. Sidious couldn't just walk backward because there was no real room for it, and because he had an advantageous position, keeping a hold on the platform while Yoda fell off. And after that, Yoda fled.

 

Sidious' victory may have come down to stamina in the end; Yoda is a fair bit older and already near the end of his life, even a Force-enhanced one, and Sidious seems to be able to call upon a near-limitless supply of energy from the dark side. Yoda certainly had the best chance of any Jedi of winning, but if he couldn't kill Sidious quickly in lightsaber combat, he wasn't going to win, and he didn't.

[ShadowMudkip]

Certainly, Yoda is no pushover, and I'd even go so far as to say he has an edge in lightsaber combat... but I think a large part of that is due to his size; he's a harder target for Sidious than most other Jedi, whereas for Yoda, every human is a relatively easy target. When locked in a lightsaber duel, Yoda might be able to carry his edge to victory, but when the fight shifted to simply using the Force itself, Sidious took the advantage and ran with it. And Yoda was definitely losing at the end; he was unable to push back Sidious' lightning with the Force, so he had to physically move forward to cause an explosion to hopefully knock both of them away. Sidious couldn't just walk backward because there was no real room for it, and because he had an advantageous position, keeping a hold on the platform while Yoda fell off. And after that, Yoda fled.

 

Sidious' victory may have come down to stamina in the end; Yoda is a fair bit older and already near the end of his life, even a Force-enhanced one, and Sidious seems to be able to call upon a near-limitless supply of energy from the dark side. Yoda certainly had the best chance of any Jedi of winning, but if he couldn't kill Sidious quickly in lightsaber combat, he wasn't going to win, and he didn't.

 

I'm going to agree, Out of all the Jedi, Yoda would have had a pretty good chance facing Sidious. I still think Mace Windu would have beaten Sidious was it not for Anakins untimely intervention. Yoda had the advantage at first, but started to lose stamina during the senate chamber portion of the fight. In the end, Sidious would have won anyways due to the fact that he was the most powerful dark side user ever. Logically, if light side power is equivalent to dark side power (same power potential), then the only person who could defeat Sidious, is the most powerful light side user ever.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ShadowMudkip

[Xilizhra]

I'm going to agree, Out of all the Jedi, Yoda would have had a pretty good chance facing Sidious. I still think Mace Windu would have beaten Sidious was it not for Anakins untimely intervention. Yoda had the advantage at first, but started to lose stamina during the senate chamber portion of the fight. In the end, Sidious would have won anyways due to the fact that he was the most powerful dark side user ever. Logically, if light side power is equivalent to dark side power (same power potential), then the only person who could defeat Sidious, is the most powerful light side user ever.

While Windu had Sidious down, I don't think Sidious was fighting to kill Windu, only to delay him. He might not have fallen on purpose, precisely, but I don't think he was using his full strength, although Vapaad does greatly complicate matters.

[ShadowMudkip]

While Windu had Sidious down, I don't think Sidious was fighting to kill Windu, only to delay him. He might not have fallen on purpose, precisely, but I don't think he was using his full strength, although Vapaad does greatly complicate matters.

 

I'm not so sure, I don't think Sidious would have taken his own lightning just to delay. Sidious was a master of lightsaber forms, but I don't believe he had much knowledge of Vapaad.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ShadowMudkip

[Xilizhra]

I'm not so sure, I don't think Sidious would have taken his own lightning just to delay. Sidious was a master of lightsaber forms, but I don't believe he had much knowledge of Vapaad.

Sidious wasn't seriously hurt by the lightning, it just melted the Force mask he had over his face to prevent his true dark side corruption from being visible to the public. The lightning he was using was far less potent than what he hit Windu with immediately thereafter, which seemed to be very swiftly fatal.

[Girdeux]

Sidious wasn't seriously hurt by the lightning, it just melted the Force mask he had over his face to prevent his true dark side corruption from being visible to the public. The lightning he was using was far less potent than what he hit Windu with immediately thereafter, which seemed to be very swiftly fatal.

 

Not at all. If youve watched the ROTS commentary youd know that Sidious was straining himself by the force lightning and melting his face off. Youd also know that Sidious was going 100% the entire fight regardless of Anakin being in the room.

[BanRau]

You know, I was about to start a new thread about this, but apparently somebody already beat me to it. So maybe you all, and that includes the Republic players out there, can answer some questions that I have.

 

My first question has to do with the creation process for new Republic characters; when first starting out you are all gung-ho to keep, uphold and defend the laws, etc. of the Republic and to protect it from the Sith and the rest of the Empire, so why would a new character make decisions that lead to the Dark Side? In essence, you're basically saying that you weren't really being honest about your choice to protect and defend the ideals of the Republic.

 

My second question is related to my first question; If that is the case then why didn't you create a Sith or another Empire related class? Those character types tend to flourish better with the Dark Side.

 

I'm not trying to preach morality to the masses, but it just seems to me that if you are going to play a Republic character, then your character should make choices that are truly beneficial for the role that the player has chosen to play.

[Xilizhra]

Not at all. If youve watched the ROTS commentary youd know that Sidious was straining himself by the force lightning and melting his face off. Youd also know that Sidious was going 100% the entire fight regardless of Anakin being in the room.

"The Emperor that you see in the last film looks the way he does because he's very old and very evil-it is what he always looked like. He just had this carapace of looking like a fairly ordinary looking guy, a politician that smiled a bit, and so on."--Ian McDirmid, interview.

 

Also, on Wookiepedia, it's stated as "Sidious tried to even the odds by firing Force lightning at Windu. However, this proved futile, as Windu used his lightsaber to reflect it back at the Sith Lord, revealing his true form."

 

So, perhaps canon sources conflict. However, I think it's completely clear that Sidious was using two different lightning strengths, as he was still able to speak clearly, whereas Windu could only scream and be paralyzed, then die; additionally, Sidious was obviously lying about being too weak to continue, as he's instantly able to shoot out more lightning after Windu's lightsaber is gone.

[Girdeux]

"The Emperor that you see in the last film looks the way he does because he's very old and very evil-it is what he always looked like. He just had this carapace of looking like a fairly ordinary looking guy, a politician that smiled a bit, and so on."--Ian McDirmid, interview.

 

Also, on Wookiepedia, it's stated as "Sidious tried to even the odds by firing Force lightning at Windu. However, this proved futile, as Windu used his lightsaber to reflect it back at the Sith Lord, revealing his true form."

 

So, perhaps canon sources conflict. However, I think it's completely clear that Sidious was using two different lightning strengths, as he was still able to speak clearly, whereas Windu could only scream and be paralyzed, then die; additionally, Sidious was obviously lying about being too weak to continue, as he's instantly able to shoot out more lightning after Windu's lightsaber is gone.

 

It doesnt matter what wookiepedia states as none of that is a first party source. Lucas and Knoll have both said that Sidious was trying to kill Windu the ENTIRE fight. Theres no disputing it. Sidious was lying because he knew he was on the losing end of the duel, which is why he plays it up to Anakin to save him.