Zoom_VI Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Good - Cover mechanic nerf - Merciless buff - Shadow tank passive mitigation buff - Undying rage nerf Bad - Root on master strike for vengeance/vigilence - Quickshot/Overload Shot being Bioware's answer for DPS scoundrel/ops - Uncleansable DoT's for madness/balance being the only change for the spec - Buffing infiltration/deception damage. Probably only for PVE purposes. The root was necessary for a spec with such a reliance on channeling a melee attack, and that spec has to much ramp up and contact time anyway. Please remember that when ravage gets interrupted in vengeance, the spec damage just got completely neutered The Quickshot change was for PvE sustained as outlined in the scoundrel rep questions. Trust me I'm still waiting on survivability buffs for my DF scoundrel Yeah madness didn't get much but its better than nothing. I am a little annoyed that they are fixing Deception's sustained by buffing its burst, imo it should have been spread to some other abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Why the f*** is madness getting this but not Watchman. So lame. Madness In addition to previous effects, Devour now makes your damage-over-time effects uncleansable. This affects Creeping Terror, Discharge, Crushing Darkness, and Affliction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If after they vanish they waste 3-4 scampers worth of energy to get 30 meters away, then those operatives are very bad and just emptied their energy pool when they could simply have walked away in steatlh. Because emergency medpack costs so much energy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I feel this entire thing does very little in the change of things outside of giving assassin a boost. I mean are those even sorc/sage buffs or just more assassin buffs but since they are the shared trees, they just label them sorc/sage to make them feel better? Half-azzed. That is this entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Watch out for darkness/deception hybrids. Edited October 17, 2013 by cycao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If I had a dime for everytime a operative healer got low, stelathed out scampered 30 meters awy and then sat in cover healing himself all the way back up, while none of my team could get to him fast enough to CC and stop him. What is your point? That your dps have tunnel vision? It takes more than a few seconds to heal back up to full if he is low. Most likely no one noticed him. On my shadow I pretty always make sure to check under the ledges next to the nodes on alderaan (that's where they usually are), and behind the pillars in mid, in HG they usually run outside around the corner (I am planning on setting up a phase walk circle there when I get it), in VS it's usually behind the giant crate in the first room, behind the pillar in the corner in the second room and third room I don't really care about. In nova it's behind the house, in huttball either they jump down in the pit and stand in the corner or go behind the giant mine cars on the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Give Anni/Watchman uncleanseable DoT's too please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinadirak Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 They fixed Scoundrels? You mean they fixed Sawbones. Scrappers/Concealment got shafted again. Only scrubs will use Quick Shot with that kind of an energy cost. Sorry, I thought that the sarcasm was more evident...apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Favorite thing about this thread, is the number of threads along the lines of "BW makes no changes, Im gonna unsub!!!!", or "BW never tells us whats happening when they make changes Im unsubbing!!!!", then when they post something about changes(albiet only a few changes) we get 20 people saying "Im going to unsub the changes I want arent coming". You can sub, or unsub, thats not what I find funny, what I find funny is that if I were lookinga t this from BWs view, no matter what they do, they cant win. They dont give out updates, people unsub, they give out updates, people unsub, they dont make balance changes, people unsub, and on and on. I would start to wonder if their is anything short of divign intervention that could please some of the forum goers. TLDR: I need more crit on meh smash 100% aint enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry, I thought that the sarcasm was more evident...apparently not. You need a to make sarcasm evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What is your point? That your dps have tunnel vision? It takes more than a few seconds to heal back up to full if he is low. Most likely no one noticed him. On my shadow I pretty always make sure to check under the ledges next to the nodes on alderaan (that's where they usually are), and behind the pillars in mid, in HG they usually run outside around the corner (I am planning on setting up a phase walk circle there when I get it), in VS it's usually behind the giant crate in the first room, behind the pillar in the corner in the second room and third room I don't really care about. In nova it's behind the house, in huttball either they jump down in the pit and stand in the corner or go behind the giant mine cars on the sides. No, the point is he was low, stealthed then came out of stealth far away in cover, healing. Currently doing so means that even though we immediately see him, I can't pull him to us nor can I jump to him. And it will take several seconds to come into CC range, and that's assuming his dps are completely tunneled and don't try to slow my team. And has you so kindly pointed out operatives only need that few seconds to heal up. With mando and sage healers if they get low, and lets say their team's dps AoE CC us while the healer HtL/forcespeeds away and starts healing, I can still come out of it and immediately pull their healer back to me or jump and CC/interrupt that healer. With cover that isn't possible. Also the change means operatives can no longer stealth run to the goalline and then unstealth in cover when their ballcarrier gets close, and be immune to people leaping to intercept or from being pulled down. And btw one scamper puts a operative far enough from the edge to LoS and further leaps or pulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Favorite thing about this thread, is the number of threads along the lines of "BW makes no changes, Im gonna unsub!!!!", or "BW never tells us whats happening when they make changes Im unsubbing!!!!", then when they post something about changes(albiet only a few changes) we get 20 people saying "Im going to unsub the changes I want arent coming". You can sub, or unsub, thats not what I find funny, what I find funny is that if I were lookinga t this from BWs view, no matter what they do, they cant win. They dont give out updates, people unsub, they give out updates, people unsub, they dont make balance changes, people unsub, and on and on. I would start to wonder if their is anything short of divign intervention that could please some of the forum goers. TLDR: I need more crit on meh smash 100% aint enough. And people wonder why BW always seems to care for PvE'ers more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmdrXaan Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Operative cover was a fair nerf, I never used it because I thought it was unfair, You aren't a sniper, you should only be using it for explosive probe. Not Healing. 2nd, Overload shot........ yeah that's pointless. 3rd, No survivability buffs? Seriously? No sustained damage buffs? While Sins get MAUL BUFFS?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 No, the point is he was low, stealthed then came out of stealth far away in cover, healing. Currently doing so means that even though we immediately see him, I can't pull him to us nor can I jump to him. And it will take several seconds to come into CC range, and that's assuming his dps are completely tunneled and don't try to slow my team. And has you so kindly pointed out operatives only need that few seconds to heal up. With mando and sage healers if they get low, and lets say their team's dps AoE CC us while the healer HtL/forcespeeds away and starts healing, I can still come out of it and immediately pull their healer back to me or jump and CC/interrupt that healer. With cover that isn't possible. Ok if you say it happens often, then it happens often. Glad you are happy with this fix then. I personally do not stay in plain site if I stealth out, but that's just me. Also the change means operatives can no longer stealth run to the goalline and then unstealth in cover when their ballcarrier gets close, and be immune to people leaping to intercept or from being pulled down. And btw one scamper puts a operative far enough from the edge to LoS and further leaps or pulls Yeah, but they can just stay in stealth and let the jugg intercede to them, which happens way more often and is harder to thwart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Slightly increased the damage dealt by Maul. Slightly increased the damage dealt by Lacerate. Slightly increased the damage dealt by Voltaic Slash. Not to say this class didn't need some help with sustained damage, and the increase on voltaic slash is nice, but Maul did not need a damage increase, it just needed to be more consistent during duplicity. When maul crits for me it generally hits for 6-7k depending on the class I'm hitting. I get the increased damage is to help during not crits....but I see this making the crits hit higher than it really needs to especially since they already get an auto crit on discharge and they have the ability to use maul out of stealth. Lacerate....I can't see myself or any other deception ever wasting energy on this even with a slight damage increase. Its really only for finding stealthers and even then the knockback or taunting is free and a better choice over lacerate. Guess its a wait and see on how hard it will actually hit in 2.5. Increased the damage dealt by Quick Shot. Pointless. Unless it hits for 5k every time I will still never use this as a filler on my scrapper. We have enough energy problems, don't need to burn that precious energy with a useless ability. I would of preferred a buff to armor penetration on flechette round or just more consistent burst in general on our openers since we lack both survivability and sustained damage...Hell a mechanic similar to discharge auto crit or just being able to use shoot first out of stealth would help immensely. I can't see myself ever wasting energy on this when running marksmen or lethality on my sniper either, as again, unless the damage is a significant increase from its current wet noodle damage then the waste of energy is not worth it. However, when running my engineering spec I can't complain about a slight increase in damage since we get 4 shots for free. So, yay slight buff to engineering? Operatives and Scoundrels can now be charged and pulled by other players while in cover. For Snipers and Gunslingers, cover remains unchanged. This is a big nerf to us objectively as now we no longer have the ability to crouch and cap a point. Personally I think if they are going to remove the function of leap immunity then remove the requirements of crouching for scoundrels to use sabotage charge. Overwhelm has been added to the Vengeance skill tree and provides a 50/100% chance to immobilize the target for the duration of Ravage. This is just...wow...I am going to thoroughly enjoy this on my jugg until they inevitably remove it. CC immunity and a root on ravage? I could only dream of something this OP on my combat sentinel (granted we get 100% armor pen though). I'm going to love abusing this, but this is straight up broken. Not to say we don't need more ways to control our opponent as we are extremely easy to kite after unstoppable, but this is just nuts. A proper buff would of been to make chilling scream either free or off the GCD for vengeance or put slows on our dots. Increasing unstoppable by 1 second as well would of been better as you could still escape it with root breaks after leap but couldn't stun before the last hit struck. Good players will still look for the timing to stun before the last hit as unstoppable wears off well before ravage finishes its last swing...but still... a root and cc immunity is just...wow I can't wait lmao. The stacking buff provided by Juyo Form now lasts 24 seconds (up from 15) and can be applied once every second (down from every 1.5 seconds). Nice I guess...but still overall pointless as we will still lose all 6 stacks all at once. Instead of increase the time it stays on the player you should of change it to incremental drop offs. Instead of all 6 stacks falling off at once it should of been one stack at a time every x seconds. Inspiration and Transcendence no longer prevent the Sentinel from becoming Centered while they are active. Good change. Inspiration now affects your entire Operation group up to 40 meters away from the Sentinel (up from 30 meters) but also applies a debuff which lasts for five minutes on all affected group members. This debuff prevents affected players from regaining Inspiration while it is active. Overall nerf imo. Guarded by the Force now has a 2 minute cooldown (up from 1 minute and 30 seconds). The health for Guarded by the Force is now spent when the damage reducing effect expires, rather than when it begins. It still costs 50% of current health. Completely overkill. One or the other would of been fine but a double nerf is complete overkill. Increasing the CD would of been perfectly fine and completely reasonable. Making the damage hit after it wears off means raid leaders will never allow a sentinel to pop it during a fight as this is just going to burn healer resources double healing the sentinel. I understand this was changed for pvp but they could of gone a different route with this. A % of reduced healing or just no healing in general during GBTF would of been much more balanced than this. At least that way they couldn't be healed in pvp and in pve they could still use it as an emergency CD and back away from the boss's aoe's and get healed up and get back into the fight and in pvp it would just be a last ditch effort before they would die which is what happens nine times out of ten anyways. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Overall mostly pointless and terrible changes. No nerf to scoundrel healing which is grossly OP, no changes to the current issues with hybrid specs ruining the matchmaking system in arenas, no nerf to smash spec forcing me to continue to run smash over combat in arenas if I don't want to gimp my team, buff to watchmen is mostly useless, no survivability buffs for sages who sorely need it for arenas...same for dps scoundrels who sorely need a buff to survivability and consistent burst.... Kudos to BW for actually talking to the community though...but these changes fix nothing, sorry. Edited October 17, 2013 by Raansu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterBLASTERpl Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You can sub, or unsub, thats not what I find funny, what I find funny is that if I were lookinga t this from BWs view, no matter what they do, they cant win. They dont give out updates, people unsub, they give out updates, people unsub, they dont make balance changes, people unsub, and on and on. I would start to wonder if their is anything short of divign intervention that could please some of the forum goers. TLDR: I need more crit on meh smash 100% aint enough. So i should be actually grateful for the lack of *any* changes in the sage and scoundrel healing? That after arenas hit and the gameplay mechanics has changed there is still no core-adjustment or what-so-ever to the vast majority of classes? At least half of the ACs need some kind of overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_osss Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I think the changes are good overall. Nothing appears too drastic. Pushing the pendulum of balance too far in any given patch just invites it to swing more the next patch. I prefer a more steady incremental approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I think the changes are good overall. Nothing appears too drastic. Pushing the pendulum of balance too far in any given patch just invites it to swing more the next patch. I prefer a more steady incremental approach. Tell that to my shadow when she Shadow Stikes you next time. Edited October 17, 2013 by sithBracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Nah, the real unsubs are going to start when everyone starts rolling deception sins after these ridiculous buffs. Because you know the sins will be killing people right out of stealth in a few seconds, and sins have a 5% proc chance to instantly unsub their victim. I don't understand what the devs are thinking, make the best 1v1 class that wins the top three spots of every tournament... Better? Edited October 17, 2013 by Brunner_Venda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Nah, the real unsubs are going to start when everyone starts rolling deception sins after these ridiculous buffs. Because you know the sins will be killing people right out of stealth in a few seconds, and sins have a 5% proc chance to instantly unsub their victim. They're going to run Dark Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Nah, the real unsubs are going to start when everyone starts rolling deception sins after these ridiculous buffs. Because you know the sins will be killing people right out of stealth in a few seconds, and sins have a 5% proc chance to instantly unsub their victim. I don't understand what the devs are thinking, make the best 1v1 class that wins the top three spots of every tournament... Better? No one is going to play deception with those buffs to darkness's armor. It's going to be hybrids, hybrids everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarimath Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 People are so satysfied for the Nerf to Undying rage/Guarded By the Force that are so blind to see which buff took the Assassin/Shadow GG BioWare. (And no, I'm not complaining about the nerf to my class. Still I think that SMASH needs Nerfs but, Oh well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) The notes provide some very reasonable explanations. That said the most glaring thing to me is that ops/scoundrels will still far out heal the other two healing classes. They still need pushed back a bit. I am surprised there was no change to their hots. Edited October 17, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Shadow tanks buffed armor....very nice Very happy from a PvP point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Operative cover was a fair nerf, I never used it because I thought it was unfair, You aren't a sniper, you should only be using it for explosive probe. Not Healing. 2nd, Overload shot........ yeah that's pointless. 3rd, No survivability buffs? Seriously? No sustained damage buffs? While Sins get MAUL BUFFS?! Believe me my dirty fighting scoundrel could use some survivability too, scrapper isn't the only spec They did give a sustained damage buff with quickshot, as currently scrapper's sustained rotation has a spare GCD at a point where the scrapper is at high energy with nothing to spend it on (Maxing resource like that is bad for sustained) Buffed QS makes it a perfect fit as the damage will justify the cost, and scrapper's won't be wasting potential resources due to maxing out. The scoundrel rep answers have a much better explanation there, as the QS change was actually specifically asked for in the scoundrel PvE question. Scoundrel Dirty Fighting doesn't need any sustained damage buffs as right now it's sustained is matching sentinels and gunslingers. But I would really think scrapper DF or all dot specs really, need survivability buffs because they need to live long enough to set up their damage. Right now Madness sins and DF scoundrel's PvP is something like run in apply dots, apply weakening blast/death field and if they are lucky they can get in a cull before dying. Personally dot specs should get all the survivability and burst specs should be squishy. The 2.4 pyro changes looks like a step towards this but they are long way away. Although they hinted in the scoundrel answers that they are considering moving some of sawbones defensive talents into the dps trees, perhaps this might be a addional change before the final 2.5 notes. iirc, they should move either the darkswell talent or the insulation talent into madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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