ThorgrimLutgen Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Bottom line for me is, I am not here to test an unfinished product. I play the game to have fun on my characters. When the game stops being fun, I cancel my sub and wait until the Star Wars bug takes my fancy again and resub for a month or two. If in the meantime BW have done a good job, I might play a little longer, if not, I don't. I see no reason to assist them in their efforts, I will lose zero sleep if the servers closed tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Bumping in light of this thread. Wondering if the lack of player testers is what's prompting the hiring? If I were the Project Manager for new content.. I would want testers I could trust to follow a test script.. NOT random testers. So I would do exactly what they are doing. By the way.. they have hired testers for content before. My statement above does not mean there is not value in random player testing. There is.... but only for some aspects of testing content. PTS is a chance to let random testers access content and let the devs observe what is going on. It has value precisely because it does not have a test scripts.. and so things that the devs and their test teams might not catch can be exposed. But random player testing is also the least reliable means of testing to design.. and the most effective means to test at random for corner cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) If I were the Project Manager for new content.. I would want testers I could trust to follow a test script.. NOT random testers. So I would do exactly what they are doing. By the way.. they have hired testers for content before. My statement above does not mean there is not value in random player testing. There is.... but only for some aspects of testing content. PTS is a chance to let random testers access content and let the devs observe what is going on. It has value precisely because it does not have a test scripts.. and so things that the devs and their test teams might not catch can be exposed. But random player testing is also the least reliable means of testing to design.. and the most effective means to test at random for corner cases. I know with the limited testing I do for work, we do scripted testing which is thorough but doesn't begin to catch everything our customers come across. When I can, I sneak in documented defects of things I'm aware of that are "outside the box," but I know for a fact I'm the only tester who does this. A little sad. Edited September 9, 2013 by ImpactHound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoe Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The reason I don't get involved with the PTS is not due to disinterest but because I don't like spoilers. It's Bioware, and that means story. I prefer to play once most of the bugs are worked out so as not to damage the immersion of it all. Some may feel the stories are lacking, as that is, at its core, a personal preference, but I am a big Bioware fan--have been for many, many years--so for me, I'll wait until it's ready (barring the little things that come up in things as big as an MMO or even a single-player game). Happy gaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndasKastor Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I didn't read all 8 pages, but I have a limited amount of time to play. I have satisfied myself that I am not a good pts or beta tester as I don't go searching for bugs - I document the ones I find, but I don't want to take up a slot of someone who may be gung-ho on testing. This doesn't really apply to the PTS as anyone can log in. TDLR: I play this game for fun, testing new content is not fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_of_Mu Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Long story short, I'm not interested in any form of pvp and my pve gear would make me a liability in any new ops content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think Bioware would get more participation in the PTS if they learned the value of a premade character.. It would work sort of like a character server transfer.. We go to the website and we pick from as list of characters.. All classes would be represented and both genders.. This new character would be transferred to our accounts on the PTS.. It would be max level.. The AC would not be selected.. 500 million credits on character, a vendor to get more if we need it.. Vendors on the fleet that sold all of the latest and greatest gear for credits.. We would have access to vendors that sold just mods, armorings, and implants... Again for credits.. Another vendor would be there to get us any crafting we may need for testing.. Again for credits.. This would allow us to jump right into the new content at any and all difficulty modes.. These characters would be deleted at the end of the testing cycle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorkir Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I have plenty of interest in the PTS, but I have only one character at level cap. I want to have my healer at 55 before I go testing the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynesis Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Downloading the client takes an entire day, consumes 1/5+ of my monthly data allowance and doesn't reliably facilitate character copy, nor does it offer the alternative of test characters with suitable gear already kitted out. The gearing option for characters that do copy is flexible but overall very clunky and time consuming. By the time all of that's sorted out, I've used up most of the time I have available to do anything useful on the PTS - let-alone (repeatedly) go through the hassles of forming a group of like-minded *and capable* people who are also interested in spending a similar amount of time / energy investigating the same things. In short, it is quite literally a waste of time. Edited September 10, 2013 by Kynesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think Bioware would get more participation in the PTS if they learned the value of a premade character.. It would work sort of like a character server transfer.. We go to the website and we pick from as list of characters.. All classes would be represented and both genders.. This new character would be transferred to our accounts on the PTS.. It would be max level.. The AC would not be selected.. 500 million credits on character, a vendor to get more if we need it.. Vendors on the fleet that sold all of the latest and greatest gear for credits.. We would have access to vendors that sold just mods, armorings, and implants... Again for credits.. Another vendor would be there to get us any crafting we may need for testing.. Again for credits.. This would allow us to jump right into the new content at any and all difficulty modes.. These characters would be deleted at the end of the testing cycle.. This. 1000x this. Filler characters with full legacy buff unlocks and the above. That way, no time is spent getting your gear together, or not having the requisite gear to do the PTS content. Have a set of PvE and a set of PvP gear. Have all class and AC selections with field respec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Quite honestly, I should get on there. I should load up a character and test all the new stuff but I simply...don't...have...time. I forum post at night before I go to bed and then during the day its work, more work, ice hockey, wife time, and THEN maybe gaming. I used to have a lot more time on my hands but nowadays I simply don't have the gumption to do it. Call me old I guess. Edited September 10, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSabreth Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 For a game with supposedly half a million subs left you'd think there would be a lot more people than I could count with my fingers and toes actually willing to test new content especially on a Friday night/evening. So community... why the lack of interest? Is there something fundamentally wrong preventing you from actually taking part or don't nobody actually care about the state of content until it hits live? I thing I don't get is in other games, most communities are willing to trade their kidneys just to try out new content but here even though anyone can sign up to test server there seems a lack of enthusiasm for it. Is this something bioware should improve on? Maybe better ways to encourage/motivate people to try stuff out? Maybe so but at the end of the day it's the user not them that has to log on to the test server, IMO the community needs to do a lot more than it is now rather than waiting for bugs to hit live then raging on the forums about them. because arenas are boring and can be done on a larger scale in outlaws den? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirx Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I've never cared much for test servers to be honest. In 8 years with wow I think I did their pts maybe 4 times....again over 8 years. My reason I'm not a kid anymore don't have a bucket load of free time just for games I rather use what game time I do have on content that advances my characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RixoFutu Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think ... it's about - no rewards for testers, no response on bug reports or suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 And even then most of the stuff you report don't get fixed tbh. That's my biggest issue as well, some people spent a lot of time before 1.2 came out and nothing changed even all the bugs were still in there. The same went on for most of the other patches, so I don't really care about the PTS anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Ziva Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 As many people have said before, Bioware just doesn't listen to feedback from the PTS. Major bugs have been reported on the PTS and then, surprise, surprise, those bugs make it to the live build anyway. It's really a waste of time to play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravotwentynine Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Umm lets see why I don't use the PTS. Going through Beta many upon many bug reports about road blocked progression for BH. Live hits and the BH still has that roadblock!!! What was the point of beta testing. Operations reporting as broken. Took months for them to get fixed after many reports through beta. PTS first opened again reporting many broken quest and operations still broken. Servers patched and the quests/operations are still broken. Some that took months to fix but by than many people left the game. Again on PTS and on live servers the bug of dyeing on any elevator if you do a auto follow still exist. So why play on PTS? I don't PVP so I wont bother the test any PVP feature. Secondly many who do the PTS are hard core raiders trying to get an edge on operations. When I played EQ when sony invited our guild to early beta test of new raid zones that was the only reason to do it. Here its no point if I am not ready for that area on the LIVE servers why test it on PTS. Edited September 10, 2013 by Bravotwentynine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Personally, I didn't even know what a PTS was until I joined a forum. This might be a general statement but I don't think a lot of people -who don't use forums - know about the PTS. They are too busy actually playing the game. At least that's the impression that I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I don't test games for free. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljc Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 lol at the people going "kids these days just want everything for nothing!" because customers won't QA the devs' product for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravotwentynine Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) lol at the people going "kids these days just want everything for nothing!" because customers won't QA the devs' product for free. Umm we shouldn't have to. Sony has hired groups for testing before they let the players even test. Edited September 10, 2013 by Bravotwentynine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 History has shown they don't listen to feedback on the PTS and send stuff live with major issues that were addressed during testing. If I am going to have to test the stuff anyway I may as well just do it on my regular character. This is my experience as well. It seems like the open PTS is mainly used as a sneak preview for marketing and to drum up publicity. So usually population goes down about 2 weeks after new content was published on the PTS and everyone interested had their curiosity satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Blizzard fills the PTR and real testing gets done with quality feedback(for the most part) from players without rewarding them directly. Whatever the exact equation is, all MMOs that want to fill their PTR and get good feedback should be copying what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) As many people have said before, Bioware just doesn't listen to feedback from the PTS. Major bugs have been reported on the PTS and then, surprise, surprise, those bugs make it to the live build anyway. It's really a waste of time to play there. In applications like MMOs, where they evolve over time.. it is neither practical, nor necessary to fix every reported bug on a PTS build before it is released to live. I know that is what players want... but it's a false expectation. The important part about bug reporting on a PTS is to get the bug logged so it can be reviewed and scheduled for correction. If its a bug so seveer it breaks the build.. of course it has to get fixed before the live build. But many bugs do not fall into that category. Just because players report bugs.. does not in any way determine severity (for the broader player base, not the crisis of one player), time to properly evaluate and fix, much less patch in. You guys talk like PTS is to insure a bug free live build. That is never the case in software development. Software always goes live with known bugs. If you wait to fix all bugs.. you still get bugs.. and you also delay the live release beyond reasonable delay in most cases. You are chasing a windmill here. Edited September 10, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) In applications like MMOs, where they evolve over time.. it is neither practical, nor necessary to fix every reported bug on a PTS build before it is released to live. I know that is what players want... but it's a false expectation. They're talking about bugs found on PTS that still make it to the Live patch Andryah...not fluff fixes on the faux server. No one cares if it's fixed on PTS...it's the Live game where it matters and that's where Bioware fails to react to feedback. Edited September 10, 2013 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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