Bioware AUSTIN has some PR issues right now.

[Andryah]

Why don't you and Ansalem take your party to the PMs where it belongs and clear up this thread for something more topical than his personal offense at the replies and your offense to his feeling offended.

 

Why? We can't be transparent in a public discussion about our difference of opinion?

 

Opinion must now be cleared with you or taken to the back room?

 

The very essence of this thread has centered around Ansalem speaking for the entire community being offended and wanting an apology from Bioware for being offended. It's a public topic, with more then one side to the discussion. Now.. he is offended that I have challenged his feelings on the matter and demands I apologize as well... thus connecting relevance with irrelevance.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Andryah

[chuixupu]

Why don't you and Ansalem take your party to the PMs where it belongs and clear up this thread for something more topical than his personal offense at the replies and your offense to his feeling offended.

 

^ Best suggestion yet

[Ansalem]

Pretty clear now that certain people in this thread are just here to derail it for their own purposes or enjoyment.

 

As to the subject there is definitely a PR issue going on here that needs to be resolved. The posts this morning helped put out some of the flames but there is still no apology. Whether or not someone in particular was offended by the post the fact remains many people on the forums were. There are many posters that have said they unsubbed over this and I am one of them. Was this the sole reason people unsubbed? probably not it was simply the straw that broke the camels back. We have all had to put up with a lot of issues in game and deal with the class balancing issues that the devs are attempting to fix for a long time now. However the comment on friday did not help instill faith in bioware or help with the situation. A simple apology would go a long way to restore some faith in bioware.

[Ansalem]

Why? We can't be transparent in a public discussion about our difference of opinion?

 

Opinion must now be cleared with you or taken to the back room?

 

The very essence of this thread has centered around Ansalem speaking for the entire community being offended and wanting an apology from Bioware for being offended. It's a public topic, with more then one side to the discussion. Now.. he is offended that I have challenged his feelings on the matter and demands I apologize as well... thus connecting relevance with irrelevance.

 

You have a perception problem. I in no way shape or form talk for the community. If that is what you are perceiving you are mistaken. I have even stated in this thread that I do not speak for the community. Please get rid of that false perception and get back on the topic of the thread. Stop trying to justify your inflammatory comments and stop picking fights.

[paowee]

Here is a question i'm sure would've gotten an (honest) "insulting answer" had i submitted it during the sniper q&a.

 

BAD QUESTION:

In 4v4 PvP a big concern right now is LoS. All of our 3 specs depend on casting and channeling abilities in order to deal damage. Marksman and Lethality altho having big sustained DPS (mostly fluff in 8v8 due to dots for Lethality) lacks burst dps and requires set-up in order to deal their max potential damage possible. Cleansable dots and requiring 2 snipes to get a 1.5 sec Ambush that can all easily be LoS does not look like a reliable burst in small scale PvP compared to Mrarauder's instant 8k smash for example. In order for Snipers to get reliable big bursts of DPS we would need to come within close range of the wall or pillar kiting player (which i assure you will always be the case for high level pvp play). In other words we would rely on fighting less than "optimal" players who sit out in the open in order to deal damage. Compare this to classes like AP PTs and the ever popular Rage Marauder. These classes wear medium to heavy armor and have perfect gap closing abilities very suitable for small scale arenas. They also superior defensive cooldowns that helps them stick to their target and deal their DPS. HO, Camo, Saber Ward, etc.. compare this to Sniper's Covered Escape, Shield Probe (absorbs ~8-10k) and Evasion (Smash goes through Evasion), and our roll is counterproductive since running away from them means they can just swap targets and LoS. So with all these in mind do you think there is a very obvious disparity between sniper's ability to deal damage while in range of the melee classes? Melee classes ALREADY have the advantage of LoS when dealing with range classes. Is there any plan to give us, a range class, some sort of damage mitigation to deal with this new 4v4 melee friendly PVP environment and the fact that we would need to come CLOSE to them in order to deal damage at all? Some ability that, given the proper amount of team assistance, can help us withstand an assault from multiple players?

 

Copied format:

 

PvP

 

The community feels that Vanguards lack both survivability and utility in comparison to the other two DPS/tank classes. When we look at the defensive cooldown that shadows possess (stealth, force speed, force wave, deflection, phasewalk, and resilience), we see a greater potential for surviving an encounter. The same is true when we look at a guardians list of cooldowns (guardian leap, force leap, saber ward, saber reflect, enure and force push). Looking at the vanguards short list of (reactive shield, hold the line, and adrenaline rush, harpoon, stealth scan), In terms of being picked for high level end game PVP IE (Rated pvp) coupled with the changes to our burst and lack of cool downs as listed above vanguard tanks and DPS alike bring nothing to the plate that the other two tanking/DPS class don’t bring, For example (in this example consider the three classes are DPS spec only ) in a huttball a shadow has his or her stealth for setting up end zone passes also the shadow has his or her force speed and resilience for grabbing the ball when it resets to the middle of the map. A guardian has his or her enemy leap and friendly leap, and force push for setting up scores, a vanguard has his or her harpoon for fire pulls and hold the line, harpoon can be a game saving talent in the right hands and hold the line is far from useless but the community feels that these talents don’t stack up to the other two classes talents. The word “lackluster” fits how the community's feels about the class right now. To encompass the point of this question here again the vanguard players feel “lackluster” in PVP Where as before many players at least felt like they were able to compete in PVP do to the burst assault once had now many players feel no matter which spec they find themselves using they cannot compete whatsoever, so we ask what could be done to address these weaknesses?

Context:

 

1. Defensive Cooldowns (PvP/PvE)

 

The biggest problem the sorcerer faces is one of survivability. Currently the sorcerer takes the most damage by a sizable margin, one that is noticeable in raids and PvP (our guess is around 20%). While we have some tools that assist in keeping us alive, they are insufficient and inferior when compared to other classes.

 

-Force speed: Hampered by the unruly number of snares in the game, only becomes slightly viable when specced into with snare breaks, even then can still be shut down immediately.

-Bubble: exceptionally good, however, consumes a great amount of force to keep up and is on our GCD (often is broken in PvP before next GCD is ready anyway). While it is a great utility skill, it is not a traditional defensive CD.

-Barrier: a great addition, however, it keeps up from doing our job and the second it falls off we are targeted and killed just as fast. It only acts as a small delay, not a defensive cooldown.

-Heals: obviously they are weaker and every heal we cast is just another attack we are not making.

 

When compared to other classes, such a marauder or sniper, they both get cooldowns that allow them to mitigate a lot (or all) of the damage for a period of time. Another part of our problem is that most of our defensive abilities need to be spec’d into, but they are entirely scattered throughout the three trees - we can't get them all, but we need them all and then some.

 

So with all this in mind, do you think that this very obvious disparity between sorcerers/sages and every other class’ defensive cooldowns are fair? Or for that matter… is it intended? If it isn’t, is there any plan to give us some sort of damage mitigation? Some ability that, given the proper amount of team assistance, can help us withstand an assault from multiple players? Obviously we don’t want to take on an entire team/raid boss but something to even the playing field. Because currently we have the lightest armor… and it shows.

 

 

INSULTING ANSWER:

"No we don't plan to give you an extra damage mitigation ability. You have shield probe, don't tell me you want a new ability "shield probe ii??" Also you have to coordinate with your team and learn to kite in order to survive the melee onslaught. If you run a 2 Sniper, 1 Jugg Tank, 1 Op healer team and you expect to go toe-to-toe with a Marauder heavy line-up and expect to win by face-tanking them, good luck with that."

 

Shield Probe meme surfaces all over the swtor forums.

Edited August 27, 2013 by paowee

[Andryah]

Pretty clear now that certain people in this thread are just here to derail it for their own purposes or enjoyment.

 

My entire point these last few pages. which was completely lost on you (and some others).. is that you have continually derailed the thread with your demands for an apology from Bioware. The topic IS about a perceived PR issue, not an apology to make you feel better.

 

There is no PR issue, per se. There is a minority interest in the forum trying hard to prosecute the company and the devs over a disagreement between the questions asked (and associated expectations) with the responses received.

 

It's not PR issue IMO.. it's a boundary issue distorted by some into a PR issue. That is the proper definition of "deflection" Some players believe they dictate class design and balance. Fact is... none of us do. We can provide feedback, and should. We can offer suggestions, and should. Neither of which entitle us to any specific class changes, unless the devs agree and choose to respond with class changes.

[WillCaedes]

Pretty clear now that certain people in this thread are just here to derail it for their own purposes or enjoyment.

 

As to the subject there is definitely a PR issue going on here that needs to be resolved. The posts this morning helped put out some of the flames but there is still no apology. Whether or not someone in particular was offended by the post the fact remains many people on the forums were. There are many posters that have said they unsubbed over this and I am one of them. Was this the sole reason people unsubbed? probably not it was simply the straw that broke the camels back. We have all had to put up with a lot of issues in game and deal with the class balancing issues that the devs are attempting to fix for a long time now. However the comment on friday did not help instill faith in bioware or help with the situation. A simple apology would go a long way to restore some faith in bioware.

 

You do know how Bioware dislikes to admit when they are at fault, right? Hell by posting this very comment now I run this risk of getting *gasp* a warning in my PM Box. I can't actually discuss how many warnings I've got (Violates the TOS) I'm not even sure I can say the word warning because it might violate some other obscure part of the TOS as well.

 

Still like I said. Bioware hates admitting when a) they screwed up b) they said something so incredibly stupid you really have to wonder why they said it.

 

Lemme give you some examples:

 

1) Game first comes out, 2nd-3rd month rolls around and they give out a free month to anyone who was level fifty since they were their "most valued and loyal customer." Took a good amount of outrage but Bioware owned up in the end and compensated pretty dang well I'd say.

 

2) The Collections system. Ultimate Developer Troll. Tell a game news website one thing about the system, then implement an entirely different system WITHOUT forewarning or correcting what they said. If I recall correctly, it took 52 pages of a thread I started and at least 2 days worth of waiting and bumping for there to actually be an official apology from an actual dev.

 

 

I've noticed Eric Musco has been very quiet lately. Gee, I wonder why.

[Huckdabuck]

Here is a question i'm sure would've gotten an (honest) "insulting answer" had i submitted it during the sniper q&a.

 

BAD QUESTION:

In 4v4 PvP a big concern right now is LoS. All of our 3 specs depend on casting and channeling abilities in order to deal damage. Marksman and Lethality altho having big sustained DPS (mostly fluff in 8v8 due to dots for Lethality) lacks burst dps and requires set-up in order to deal their max potential damage possible. Cleansable dots and requiring 2 snipes to get a 1.5 sec Ambush that can all easily be LoS does not look like a reliable burst in small scale PvP compared to Mrarauder's instant 8k smash for example. In order for Snipers to get reliable big bursts of DPS we would need to come within close range of the wall or pillar kiting player (which i assure you will always be the case for high level pvp play). In other words we would rely on fighting less than "optimal" players who sit out in the open in order to deal damage. Compare this to classes like AP PTs and the ever popular Rage Marauder. These classes wear medium to heavy armor and have perfect gap closing abilities very suitable for small scale arenas. They also superior defensive cooldowns that helps them stick to their target and deal their DPS. HO, Camo, Saber Ward, etc.. compare this to Sniper's Covered Escape, Shield Probe (absorbs ~8-10k) and Evasion (Smash goes through Evasion), and our roll is counterproductive since running away from them means they can just swap targets and LoS. So with all these in mind do you think there is a very obvious disparity between sniper's ability to deal damage while in range of the melee classes? Melee classes ALREADY have the advantage of LoS when dealing with range classes. Is there any plan to give us, a range class, some sort of damage mitigation to deal with this new 4v4 melee friendly PVP environment and the fact that we would need to come CLOSE to them in order to deal damage at all? Some ability that, given the proper amount of team assistance, can help us withstand an assault from multiple players? Context:

 

1. Defensive Cooldowns (PvP/PvE)

 

The biggest problem the sorcerer faces is one of survivability. Currently the sorcerer takes the most damage by a sizable margin, one that is noticeable in raids and PvP (our guess is around 20%). While we have some tools that assist in keeping us alive, they are insufficient and inferior when compared to other classes.

 

-Force speed: Hampered by the unruly number of snares in the game, only becomes slightly viable when specced into with snare breaks, even then can still be shut down immediately.

-Bubble: exceptionally good, however, consumes a great amount of force to keep up and is on our GCD (often is broken in PvP before next GCD is ready anyway). While it is a great utility skill, it is not a traditional defensive CD.

-Barrier: a great addition, however, it keeps up from doing our job and the second it falls off we are targeted and killed just as fast. It only acts as a small delay, not a defensive cooldown.

-Heals: obviously they are weaker and every heal we cast is just another attack we are not making.

 

When compared to other classes, such a marauder or sniper, they both get cooldowns that allow them to mitigate a lot (or all) of the damage for a period of time. Another part of our problem is that most of our defensive abilities need to be spec’d into, but they are entirely scattered throughout the three trees - we can't get them all, but we need them all and then some.

 

So with all this in mind, do you think that this very obvious disparity between sorcerers/sages and every other class’ defensive cooldowns are fair? Or for that matter… is it intended? If it isn’t, is there any plan to give us some sort of damage mitigation? Some ability that, given the proper amount of team assistance, can help us withstand an assault from multiple players? Obviously we don’t want to take on an entire team/raid boss but something to even the playing field. Because currently we have the lightest armor… and it shows.

 

 

PvP

 

The community feels that Vanguards lack both survivability and utility in comparison to the other two DPS/tank classes. When we look at the defensive cooldown that shadows possess (stealth, force speed, force wave, deflection, phasewalk, and resilience), we see a greater potential for surviving an encounter. The same is true when we look at a guardians list of cooldowns (guardian leap, force leap, saber ward, saber reflect, enure and force push). Looking at the vanguards short list of (reactive shield, hold the line, and adrenaline rush, harpoon, stealth scan), In terms of being picked for high level end game PVP IE (Rated pvp) coupled with the changes to our burst and lack of cool downs as listed above vanguard tanks and DPS alike bring nothing to the plate that the other two tanking/DPS class don’t bring, For example (in this example consider the three classes are DPS spec only ) in a huttball a shadow has his or her stealth for setting up end zone passes also the shadow has his or her force speed and resilience for grabbing the ball when it resets to the middle of the map. A guardian has his or her enemy leap and friendly leap, and force push for setting up scores, a vanguard has his or her harpoon for fire pulls and hold the line, harpoon can be a game saving talent in the right hands and hold the line is far from useless but the community feels that these talents don’t stack up to the other two classes talents. The word “lackluster” fits how the community's feels about the class right now. To encompass the point of this question here again the vanguard players feel “lackluster” in PVP Where as before many players at least felt like they were able to compete in PVP do to the burst assault once had now many players feel no matter which spec they find themselves using they cannot compete whatsoever, so we ask what could be done to address these weaknesses?

 

 

INSULTING ANSWER:

"No we don't plan to give you an extra damage mitigation ability. You have shield probe, don't tell me you want a new ability "shield probe ii??" Also you have to coordinate with your team and learn to kite in order to survive the melee onslaught. If you run a 2 Sniper, 1 Jugg Tank, 1 Op healer team and you expect to go toe-to-toe with a Marauder heavy line-up and expect to win by face-tanking them, good luck with that."

 

Shield Probe meme surfaces all over the swtor forums.

Shield Probe meme overused and starts to become unfunny.

 

Ding ding ding! Winner winner chicken dinner! This needs to have it's own OP in the Sorc/Sage forum!

[Maelael]

"This message is hidden because Andryah is on your ignore list."

 

You'd be surprised how classed-up and more intelligent the forums become when you start ignoring the usual troll suspects. I highly suggest it.

 

If there was an option to ignore posts that quote these people, I'd do it too.

 

In terms of on topic...really I've just lowered my expectations in both game quality and CS/CR responses and it's not so bad. If you expect McDonalds at McDonalds, it's just fine.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Maelael

[Andryah]

I in no way shape or form talk for the community.

 

Then please stop constantly saying that the community is upset and deserves an apology. Very simple really. Stop using the word community in the context of you getting what you personally want.

[WillCaedes]

"This message is hidden because Andryah is on your ignore list."

 

You'd be surprised how classed-up and more intelligent the forums become when you start ignoring the usual troll suspects. I highly suggest it.

 

If there was an option to ignore posts that quote these people, I'd do it too.

 

In terms of on topic...really I've just lowered my expectations in both game quality and CS/CR responses and it's not so bad. If you expect McDonalds at McDonalds, it's just fine.

 

Y'know, I honestly might join you in that respect. Tired of seeing them shoot everyone who has a dissenting opinion against Bioware down all the time. *shrugs* I know I come off as a jerk and troll at times..the only reason I bother to post is because I care. I care a lil bit about the community and I care alot about the longevity of the game. If Bioware keeps screwing up so badly....who knows how much longer the game will last. Bleeding subs over issues is never a good thing.

[-IceHawk-]

Paowee,

 

To be completely frank the Sniper AC is generally recognized as one of the more balanced (if not the most well balanced) in the game. The vast majority of the concerns seem to revolve around either improving what you already do or just clarifying questions as to whether a hybrid is performing better or if a mechanic is intended.

 

Pretty much, you lacked any real balance concerns.

 

I wonder what your particular class questions would have looked like if we took away all of your defensive CDs, dropped your AR, nerfed your DPS by a good 15%, made your major hitters crit-reliant, and provided you with a 2.5 sec castable Heal in exchange.

 

You would be completely fine with those changes I would assume?

[Benfynyn]

"This message is hidden because Andryah is on your ignore list."

 

You'd be surprised how classed-up and more intelligent the forums become when you start ignoring the usual troll suspects. I highly suggest it.

 

If there was an option to ignore posts that quote these people, I'd do it too.

 

In terms of on topic...really I've just lowered my expectations in both game quality and CS/CR responses and it's not so bad. If you expect McDonalds at McDonalds, it's just fine.

 

Very tempting.

[Ansalem]

My entire point these last few pages. which was completely lost on you (and some others).. is that you have continually derailed the thread with your demands for an apology from Bioware. The topic IS about a perceived PR issue, not an apology to make you feel better.

 

There is no PR issue, per se. There is a minority interest in the forum trying hard to prosecute the company and the devs over a disagreement between the questions asked (and associated expectations) with the responses received.

 

It's not PR issue IMO.. it's a boundary issue distorted by some into a PR issue. That is the proper definition of "deflection" Some players believe they dictate class design and balance. Fact is... none of us do. We can provide feedback, and should. We can offer suggestions, and should. Neither of which entitle us to any specific class changes, unless the devs agree and choose to respond with class changes.

 

I have remained on subject as a big part of PR is apologizing when something goes wrong or a mistake is made. BW has admitted the mistake, but they have not gone on to the next step which is to apologize for the mistake. It is not a false perception that something was wrong with the way they responded as you can see in other threads with people voicing complaints about it. You cannot make broad claims of a minority interest being in disagreement as by checking the threads involved with the original comment you can find the unique posters in the threads are a majority saying they took offense or thought the post was offensive (93-35). The players know they do not dictate class balance as they read the post by courtney about expectations from the class rep questions. The class reps that came up with the questions were certainly aware of this. The questions were given and the answers were insulting to many posters. It is one thing to say no we dont have plans to change this its another to use comments such as "make them pay for trying to kill you" by "healing to full". Or the comment to the VGs telling them they "have a perception problem" Their comments were dismissive and insulting. It was a huge PR problem and made worse by the fact that it was posted at the end of the work day on a friday so it grew over the weekend. Asking for an apology for the mistake is not exactly asking for the moon and it would go a long way in fixing this PR problem

[Klarick]

People like you, on the other hand, are in fact the "Cesspool" of the forums. Anyone that actively takes up Bioware's side on every single factor of the game is just HURTING the game from evolving. Talk about a sense of entitlement, all of your posts wreak of it.

 

I wish I had said this. So very true.

[Ansalem]

Then please stop constantly saying that the community is upset and deserves an apology. Very simple really. Stop using the word community in the context of you getting what you personally want.

 

I will not stop using the word community in my responses because its obvious by the multiple threads and post counts in the threads that this is an issue for the community. We don't see internet meme's and random videos popping up about this game for nothing. I am just another voice amongst many.

[Ansalem]

"This message is hidden because Andryah is on your ignore list."

 

You'd be surprised how classed-up and more intelligent the forums become when you start ignoring the usual troll suspects. I highly suggest it.

 

If there was an option to ignore posts that quote these people, I'd do it too.

 

In terms of on topic...really I've just lowered my expectations in both game quality and CS/CR responses and it's not so bad. If you expect McDonalds at McDonalds, it's just fine.

 

I think I will take your advice and add that guy to ignore as well he obviously has his own motives here and isn't helping the discussion.

[Inflicktion]

LOLOL! And BW was shooting down polls as a source of feedback because of QQ? Now you have every single Sorc/ Sage on the forum demanding a personal response/ buff. This is better how?

 

Terrible PR indeed! Although that's hardly anything new. These are the same issues we've been facing for months; the most whiny class in the game just has the reigns right now. At least they've been able to get a response though (even if it was just one for them).

 

For myself, I wasn't in the country, I was in Germany for our Cantina event.

 

Seriously? Of course you'd say that like it wasn't a big issue, leave it to Musco. That's a huge part of what all the complaining is about! How atrocious of a job you guys have been doing at these Q&A's. If you aren't going to give any real answers stop holding the damn things and just give out more free booze. At least the people attending will appreciate that instead of getting jerked around by answers we've all heard a dozen times.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Inflicktion

[Bojangle]

There are a couple quotes from people that really made me lmao and shows they have no clue what end game pve is.

 

"As far as healing in the middle of a boss fight, what options does a pure dps have once they have gone through their cool downs? Death or pray the healer gets them back in the fight. Sorc can heal themselves (to full if they really wanted to) to prevent their death keeping them in the fight longer. While your DPS may suffer when you have to heal yourself, it goes down even more when you are dead."

 

"How much more DPS would you lose if you were dead over spending the 1-2 GCDs to heal yourself?

 

I see nothing wrong with the dev responses. People are just blowing things out of proportion again in an attempt to manipulate people into agreeing with them."

 

First off, when I was raiding here in all difficulty levels up to the one before the digital expansion (whatever one that was when D3 came out too) that as a sorc I never had to heal myself and my dps I had no issues finishing in the top 2.

 

Secondly, in WoW for example, if a healer couldn't keep up the raid then they likely would not be welcome to raid with that guild again. Not saying wipes can't happen, I am talking about to where a dps person, hybrid or not, had to self heal through every fight (not counting health stones and things like that) instead of focusing on dps, then that is a problem.

 

Those who think this is how it is supposed to be and self heal when you are specced dps shows they have never done end game pve. If actual healers can't keep the raid alive to where you need your dps'er to self heal instead of do dmg, then there is a huge problem. Like I said before, playing a dps sorc and clearing all the hard modes/nightmare modes up till that one I mentioned and never had a problem where we needed to self heal.

 

I don't know how the raiding is anymore as I stopped raiding on ToR, but I am glad I don't after hearing some of this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I still love the game and still sub because I just play ToR to mess around some and level alts to see the other stories because this is the only game I actually enjoy making alts on, but for raiding I stuck to WoW and glad I did after this.

 

I am sure things will calm down in time. I haven't personally experienced this stuff but I had to comment on those who agree and tell others who are specced dps that they need to self heal and bringing up being == no dps. Of course dead == no dps, but the healer should be keeping them up then. Never was an issue before.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Bojangle

[TUXs]

I am not going to play the semantics game with you Andryah.

 

Your posts are as inherently subjective, biased, and rationalized as those you classify as complaints and your continued desire to serve as the General Forum's resident Defender of the Faith, while entertaining as a counterpoint to the more dedicated trolls, provides you in fact with no actual degree of rhetorical authority greater than the one being wielded by Ansalem.

 

The difference of course is that, because you theoretically underpin your statements with the concept that you are somehow "objective," the substantive result is that you are displaying an interesting level of hypocrisy.

 

Why don't you and Ansalem take your party to the PMs where it belongs and clear up this thread for something more topical than his personal offense at the replies and your offense to his feeling offended.

 

Agreed! Take it to PMs.

[paowee]

Paowee,

 

To be completely frank the Sniper AC is generally recognized as one of the more balanced (if not the most well balanced) in the game. The vast majority of the concerns seem to revolve around either improving what you already do or just clarifying questions as to whether a hybrid is performing better or if a mechanic is intended.

 

Pretty much, you lacked any real balance concerns.

 

I wonder what your particular class questions would have looked like if we took away all of your defensive CDs, dropped your AR, nerfed your DPS by a good 15%, made your major hitters crit-reliant, and provided you with a 2.5 sec castable Heal in exchange.

 

You would be completely fine with those changes I would assume?

 

I will only try to address your DPS question because i do not have time to talk about all of the concerns you mentioned.

 

 

If DPS was a question, and i wish it was ( i have a DPS sorc as my 2nd main pre 2.0) , the question i would've submitted to BW would be somewhere along the lines of:

 

Sorcerer DPS appears to be quite unpopular in NiM raiding due to less dps in comparison to Operatives, Snipers, Marauders and Mercenaries. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support the apparent DPS variance between this classes? I understand that your end-goal is for "most classes" to be 5% within each other in terms of single target DPS. .As a second note to this though, we (the players) understand that in-raid numbers will vary due to the presence of AoE and adds (Orbital Strike giving IA's a huge advantage in multi-target boss fights).

 

disclaimer: now i would lobby to my community that we ask a question that DOES NOT compare ourselves to other classes but more regarding our 2 DPS specs (since we are inquiring about DPS in the first place). The problem with asking a question comparing yourself with another DPS class is that it could answered, quite frankly, by a "sugar coated answer" that says, (we honestly just do not intend sorcerers to do more PS than class A or class B. Just that. final. period.)

 

Now with this in mind, a DPS question for me would be,

 

REVISED:

Sorcerer DPS appears to be quite unpopular in NiM raiding due to less dps. This is compounded by the fact that the current operations' specific mechanics includes a multitude of target swaps and dot resets which diminishes the sorcerer's DPS (much less so in Lightning than it is for Madness). In comparison to Mercenary DPS ( which we choose simply for the sake of this question and the fact that they are the only ranged class with dps and healing specializations), do you have any numbers that support the DPS imbalance between the 2 classes? Is Sorcerer PVE DPS in a good place right now in relation to Arsenal Mercenaries and what, if any concerns, do you have about balance?

[EricMusco]

Seriously? Of course you'd say that like it wasn't a big issue, leave it to Musco. That's a huge part of what all the complaining is about! How atrocious of a job you guys have been doing at these Q&A's. If you aren't going to give any real answers stop holding the damn things and just give out more free booze. At least the people attending will appreciate that instead of getting jerked around by answers we've all heard a dozen times.

 

Hey Inflicktion,

 

I am not entirely sure what you are upset about with our Cantina events specifically but I think you may misunderstand their purpose. The goal of our Cantina events was never to make big reveals around game content or anything like that. It would be a weird format to make announcements (typically) since it is only about 150-200 people in attendance. Although, we have certainly started to drop some cool tidbits out there via the thumb drives. As an example, we used the thumb drives to announce TaunTaun mounts coming to the game, certainly that is no small thing!

 

The main goal of the Cantina events is it is simply a great social gathering for players of SWTOR to come out and mingle with each other and with us. At the end of the day all of us in the studio are just gamers like all of you who love SWTOR. We just happen to also work on the project. I apologize if you feel we are not releasing enough tidbits of information at the events but that was never the intent.

 

Plus, who doesn't like getting to eat and drink for free while talking about video games?

 

-eric

[captpickles]

My entire point these last few pages. which was completely lost on you (and some others).. is that you have continually derailed the thread with your demands for an apology from Bioware. The topic IS about a perceived PR issue, not an apology to make you feel better.

 

There is no PR issue, per se. There is a minority interest in the forum trying hard to prosecute the company and the devs over a disagreement between the questions asked (and associated expectations) with the responses received.

 

It's not PR issue IMO.. it's a boundary issue distorted by some into a PR issue. That is the proper definition of "deflection" Some players believe they dictate class design and balance. Fact is... none of us do. We can provide feedback, and should. We can offer suggestions, and should. Neither of which entitle us to any specific class changes, unless the devs agree and choose to respond with class changes.

 

LOL I $ee you are $till at it...

 

so I don't have a warning or ban for the day so lets go:

 

1) there is a PR problem. there are memes... multiple. and videos..

2) there is a PR problem. there are more than 10 threads for just this... and every other thread gets hijacked onto this same topic eventually.

3) There is a PR problem. when you wait way more than 24 hours to have a meeting, then give the nod to make a yellow post... and then not issue some sort of "woops, my bad.". if someone runs over my cat I expect a apology.. not just "yup that was me".

4) there is a PR problem because this just stacks nicely on top of he other issues people have been $%^&ting about since BETA.

5) there is a PR problem when over and over again the same pat replies come forth and discredit posters and their opinions.

 

is it Bw's place to discredit and bully posters?

is it the PR teams place to discredit and bully posters ?

 

nope... but here we are. new topic. same result. someone is unhappy and then suddenly the same old attacks from the same old people carefully 'wording' there way to the desired result of "happy flowers honey for everyone!!!".

 

not so fast. based on the number of posts... he does speak for the community in they way that he is. And the way that he is is how he is doing it PRECISELY. Thread = Thread for those of similar opin and import.. you cannot discredit that. And if you do you reveal your color$.

 

The reason there is WAYYYY more hate on this topic is BECAUSE it conflaglaerates and brings up all the other issues people have been bringing up and getting ignored on the whole time.. it tops the cake, and people rage at the 'lack of response' suddenly becoming "heal to full" after waiting... and waiting .... and getting panned..... If 1/6th of your forum posts are about lack of response to issues both minor and small, delays in class or content for FIXES, or being ignored and or poor class issues YOU HAVE A PR problem and the PR team if failing miserably.

 

people hate the reference but if this were a blue thread.... it would have been damn near instant. it would have been addressed and it would be fixed.

Edited August 27, 2013 by captpickles

[-IceHawk-]

Paowee,

 

We have the parses that demonstrate the disparity in Sorc DPS already established.

There is no "apparent" differential therefore asking the Developers to confirm something the community has already tested and published ad nauseum is literally wasting a question.

 

And the response to your question would be identical as the one to Psi's; Sorc are a Hyrbid class that can heal to full, therefore you must realize comparisons with pure DPS classes are inherently unfair and you most take into account off-healing abilities when you consider your AC's utility.

 

This accomplishes nothing of substantive worth.

[hadoken]

Paowee,

 

We have the parses that demonstrate the disparity in Sorc DPS already established.

There is no "apparent" differential therefore asking the Developers to confirm something the community has already tested and published ad nauseum is literally wasting a question.

 

And the response to your question would be identical as the one to Psi's; Sorc are a Hyrbid class that can heal to full, therefore you must realize comparisons with pure DPS classes are inherently unfair and you most take into account off-healing abilities when you consider your AC's utility.

 

This accomplishes nothing of substantive worth.

 

I'm not sure that's entirely true. They were bringing up healing as an alternative to needing more defensive cooldowns, not as a penalty for lower dps (still ridiculous in most people's opinions, but different reasoning).

 

Though I would be interested to hear if their opinion of sorc dps is so much 'that's a hybrid, not dps' that ends up being the case as well. The defensive cooldown answer certainly has me thinking they've altered their stance on class balance significantly (i.e. hybrid tax now enforced).

Edited August 27, 2013 by hadoken