New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?

[Ausgelebt]

Well, the other 55 HM FPs are much easier. Why? They provide same rewards and are put in the same difficulty per BW (148). Note that the difficulty per BW assumes you are not augged and you don't use the class at 100% efficiency. After all the 55 HM FPs are doable in 140-146 gear. Are the new ones doable with the same level of gear? No. Then they are overturned for their level requirement.

 

The fact that people in 72/69 gear one shot it, or we need more challenging content, etc... Is irrelevant. The only question is are they on the same level of the other 55 HM FPs or not.

 

Actually they don't give the same rewards and jesus, I find them a lot easier even on 61s unaugmented twink.. they just take a bit more brain if you are in low-tier gear.

[Makillda]

Well, the other 55 HM FPs are much easier. Why? They provide same rewards and are put in the same difficulty per BW (148). Note that the difficulty per BW assumes you are not augged and you don't use the class at 100% efficiency. After all the 55 HM FPs are doable in 140-146 gear. Are the new ones doable with the same level of gear? No. Then they are overturned for their level requirement.

 

The fact that people in 72/69 gear one shot it, or we need more challenging content, etc... Is irrelevant. The only question is are they on the same level of the other 55 HM FPs or not.

 

If by "much easier" you mean "less bad to stand in," then you are still wrong. If people actually execute the fights correctly, the outgoing damage goes down dramatically, resulting in no splattered dps and more time on the bosses. Increased boss dps = dead boss. There is one healer check (the sandstorm) and 2 tank checks (pull the boss by the node) but the rest are basically "don't stand in the bad stuff, it does not give a haste buff."

 

I'm also thinking that you are trying to compare apples to oranges here. These fights all drop 69 gear. Only the bonus and end bosses drop that stuff in the "vanilla" 55hms. These fights are on-par with those fights, IMO. You absolutely cannot stand in Gil's red circle or you get plowed pretty hard. You need to run out of Gerold's storm. If your healer isn't decent, the frog's aoe/stun will own you. Death From Above? Sweeping Gunfire? Don't stand in it. No difference in difficulty at all.

 

If you are actually awake at the keyboard and all the keys work from lack of drooling on it, then these FPs are, in fact, doable by toons in 66s as intended. Read that again, 66 gear, the same level that the other 55hms are tuned for. Crafting exists for a reason, use it. Buy the oranges on the GTN. Spend your classic/Basic comms on some stuff, you know, the ones you collected running 50hms? There is very little excuse for any toon to be in a hard mode flashpoint in less than 66 blues/purples in every slot and Dread Guard or Partisan relics. That's the "starter gear" you're referring to, not the greens that you collected on Makeb. The gear progression in this game isn't great but it does exist. Quit blaming the content for you being a lazy piece of humanity.

 

tl/dr - Don't stand in bad, try to stay awake and actually execute the mechanics and you can blow through the new HMs in 66 starter gear.

[imperialmerc]

These flashpoints are right where they need to be. In Corporate labs, only the first boss was any trouble and that was because me (A tank) accidentally faced him towards my group. Meltdown was a little harder, with the Duneclaw being challenging, but nowhere near as hard as you make it seem. The last boss was a cakewalk, even though one of the times I did it our healer was DPSing.

[chuixupu]

The new Lost Island? Hellll Noooooo!

 

These FPs are not hard. I haven't done the story modes, but I went in to do the hard mode first time, we had one really undergeared dps, none of us know the fights, and other than the sandstorm one where we had to go look up the strat, it was just faceroll easy.

 

Sounds to me that people are coming in from story mode expecting to be able to ignore mechanics, and just having a hard time because of lack of knowledge. If you do the fights right, they're short and easy.

[Riivan]

Honestly if you're having trouble just stop playing them. Go back to running story or playing around with dailies and story missions. These HM FPs aren't any harder than the original 4. They have a story and a hard mode for a reason. Those not up to the challenge of a HM should stick to story. If you can't hack it in hard then maybe you're just not that great of a player and that's entirely ok. Because you can't do it doesn't mean it should be taken down a notch.

 

When I hear complaints about how if you don't get out of a red circle it kills them or gets close to killing them I start ignoring everything you say from then on. If you haven't learned that standing in a red circle is a bad thing by now then go back to story mode where you can stand in all the circles you want. The sandstorm mechanic is solid and everyone has plenty of time to get where they need to be if you plan ahead. Commandos can time their supercharged cells and aoe heals for them. It's not that hard, you just have to (once again) plan ahead.

[MissilyMilcasia]

I personally would like to see more challenging 4 man content. Its not a cakewalk to get a group together (which unless its a scheduled guild raid takes a chunk of time) and then proceed into a 7 ops boss fight that lasts 2.5 hours with a perfect group.

 

As much as I love Operations, that what the game has become for Endgame PvE: Operations. Nobody takes Flashpoints seriously anymore, cause people in Classic Gear can clear it.

 

I honestly think if they created Nightmare Mode Flashpoints, made a tier 2, started throwing creative ideas that they usually reserve for ops (See Oasis City Infiltration and Terror From Beyond) at the FP Level instead of tank and spank with knockbacks and clicking to solve everything, endgame PvE could be so much bigger.

[Prototypemind]

HM isn't overtuned, but the mechanics don't offer any room for error obviously. It is frustrating tanking the sandstorm area the first time because of course if anything goes wrong everyone knows you blame the tank =p Seriously though, as I said elsewhere no one has the patience to learn the fights anymore; it's expected that when you come in you've youtubed everything. Last night I wish I had because everyone else "knew" the fight, I followed their directions and we wiped time and time again.

 

So, it's guild runs if you want to actually go through to learn the fights, or google beforehand and no real in-between. SM teaches you some points that you know will be coming such as the electrified water on the bot in Czerka, but not sure how many go up against the Duneclaw ready to counteract the slow and aware of the distance of the aoe spread. It is what it is though.

[pooks]

Gear requirement listed for these is 148. No way can this be done in 148 gear.

This is asinine to expect that.

Even with 69s and 72s both FPs are too difficult in hard mode.

They need to be toned down to be on par with other HM FPs and the 148 gear rating requirement.

[Makillda]

Gear requirement listed for these is 148. No way can this be done in 148 gear.

This is asinine to expect that.

Even with 69s and 72s both FPs are too difficult in hard mode.

They need to be toned down to be on par with other HM FPs and the 148 gear rating requirement.

 

L2P. That is all.

[Ansalem]

seriously L2Play. This stuff is so easy Im doing it in my old recruit set on an alt. Bioware coddles people enough in this game if you think this is hard you are sorely mistaken and this is not the game for you. Hello Kitty Island Adventure awaits you.

[Prototypemind]

Gear requirement listed for these is 148. No way can this be done in 148 gear.

This is asinine to expect that.

Even with 69s and 72s both FPs are too difficult in hard mode.

They need to be toned down to be on par with other HM FPs and the 148 gear rating requirement.

 

156 gear is pretty much up to snuff. Again, you do need to get the mechanics of the boss fights down, but other than that you should be good. If everyone's in 69+ mods then it should be a cakewalk, again assuming the fights are explained to you correctly or you already know them.

 

I will say that some of the random aggro dumps and AOEs that put melee dps at a disadvantage for heals can be a pain, but that's part of the challenge.

[Lowyjowylof]

I don't think they are over tuned in HM, but Labs I think is bugged. I was in there with my GF and her brother who have done maybe 8 HM FPs between the 2 of them and we got to the final boss on 2 wipes. One was because I was a dumba** and tried to heal the droid fight from the second floor. FYI the Cable will 1 shot you from the second floor lol. The other wipe was on Zokar and weren't stepping far enough out of the reticle.

 

 

On thefinal boss bug, we were getting 2-3 adds from the get go and they would damage everybody at ranged. I could be mistaken but I think only 1 is supposed to spawn, you dps until the chemical reaction triggers then release his opposite. I was the healer, and with 3 adds it got impossible to heal through.

 

Either way keep it where it's at and add NIM , have it drop 72 gear and put it on a separate LO.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Lowyjowylof

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Too many whingers. I got into HMs last night via GF and I was expecting some challenging battle and it was pretty damn simple. That is geared in mostly 69's with the odd 72 as DPS and the rest of the GF party were similarly or lower geared.

Think we only wiped once as one member has to drop out and we thought we'd try do Duneclaw with 3 members ( no healer ) - got surprisingly far until the adds were too much without a healer.

 

So yeah L2P seems a fair statement here - we need harder contant not easier. If you don't like how hard this is then don't do it, you can choose to remove it from your GF queue.

 

On the harder note some other idea's than NiM FPs would be easier ops? That is 4 man ops? I find FPs too short often and find it hard to get an 8 man group outside of raids for the more enjoyable ops. It would be nice to have a scaled back 4 man version of OPs so we can enjoy that contant more often. Just an idea anyway.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Too hard is always a matter of individual perspective. Of course they are very easy for a 72 geared guild group with experienced players.

 

It's a whole different ball game in a Pug group, though. Just one player who fails to move out of Charged Plating can wipe the group. But: If you take your time to improve after each try, you'll manage in the end. Pug groups all too often just start the next try after a wipe without discussing improvements in chat (TS is not really needed for 4 man encounters, but if you're having big trouble, you should consider it).

 

Thing is: If you're not as quick on the keyboard as nightmare players tend to be, you can't afford to ignore mechanics. But too many players are so used to outgearing Flashpoints, they don't bother learning them in the new ones. In pug groups at least half of the players simply don't know that you have to attack the blue adds below 80% health to make them attack red adds and kill them.

 

BUT: This is largely due to the difficulty players have gotten used to in the last months of SWTOR (this is excluding LI prenerf). And I do think, at least if we talk about HM content, the new flashpoints are indeed a slight step up. Do the really good players welcome that? Of course. Is it in line with what newer players have accomodated to lately? Probably not.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[Prototypemind]

55HMs have never been easy. If there's one with easy boss mechanics then there are guaranteed to be mob pulls that are difficult somewhere throughout, and some make sure to offer difficulty in all ways possible at some point or another.

 

The Duneclaw generator mechanics are definitely some of the tightest yet, though. Everyone bunches up a little too much and it's over. Also, if you're tanking not only do you have to move so that he will smash directly on the gen and get things over with it's also apparently your job to stand in the perfect spot so that the healer has LoS without having to do any work to be able to cast on you =p

[Shadow-Nite]

Gear requirement listed for these is 148. No way can this be done in 148 gear.

This is asinine to expect that.

Even with 69s and 72s both FPs are too difficult in hard mode.

They need to be toned down to be on par with other HM FPs and the 148 gear rating requirement.

 

I find that hard to believe... went in there with 4 people full 69s we facerolled that **** like it was a sm fp just have to have people that know what they are doing its not that hard ful 72s we killed the bosses like they were bugs under a boot lol yeah they really aren't that bad I don't see why people have issues with them

[TheNegotiator]

The droid's enrage timer needs to be made longer I was in a competent group and it was very difficult to kill him in time, have no problems with other 55 hard mode bosses.

[Icestar]

The droid's enrage timer needs to be made longer I was in a competent group and it was very difficult to kill him in time, have no problems with other 55 hard mode bosses.

 

Yes, this is needed.

 

For those that actually wants to gear up this boss is a problem because of the bad damageoutput.

 

This boss needs to be looked into using characters with the minimum gear requirement.

 

If some overgeared player still says that the boss is fine, then go ahead try the boss with 66 gear as the FP clearly states is the minimum requirement.

 

Tactics is not enough here since it is a dps race against a too short enrage timer.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Icestar

[Icestar]

I find that hard to believe... went in there with 4 people full 69s we facerolled that **** like it was a sm fp just have to have people that know what they are doing its not that hard ful 72s we killed the bosses like they were bugs under a boot lol yeah they really aren't that bad I don't see why people have issues with them

 

You need to do this FP with all players wearing non augmented 66 gear, then you will understand

Edited August 14, 2013 by Icestar

[Shadow-Nite]

Challenge accepted

[Makillda]

You need to do this FP with all players wearing non augmented 66 gear, then you will understand

 

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Full crafted 66s, DG BA/Ark damage proc relics, Black Market implants/earpiece. The rest of that group was in similar gear and we cleared both HMs for the weekly. The enrage on the shockbot is insanely long.

[AshlaBoga]

Gear requirement listed for these is 148. No way can this be done in 148 gear.

This is asinine to expect that.

Even with 69s and 72s both FPs are too difficult in hard mode.

They need to be toned down to be on par with other HM FPs and the 148 gear rating requirement.

 

Did HM Labs in a group of 4 with all of us wearing 146 rated gear (Black Hole).

I doubt that HM Meltdown is really that much more challenging than labs.

[Creslan]

I killed the droid in the labs in story mode as a guardian dps with a healer companion, just the 2 of us. There is no way that four real people should have hit enrage unless you were only using strike/hammer shot the entire time, even then, I wouldn't believe it. Edited August 15, 2013 by Creslan

[ekimmak]

There's one little problem with the people who say "I beat it easy in maxed gear, I tone down my gear and it's still too easy".

 

If you're in maxed gear, you aren't a casual player. You practice rotations, time your resource usage, until you've got yourself at absolute perfection, almost capable of playing with your eyes shut (I'd actually like to see that, can people finish a flashpoint with their eyes shut?). So you'll be finding it easy even when you're statistically a match for the content.

 

Not everyone has that dedication. They mess up with cooldowns, maybe miss a proc, or don't utilize their attacks in the optimal rotation. As such, they aren't going to get things killed at the same rate as you.

 

I have no opinions on these FPs, because I can never actually get a group for these.

[Icestar]

The rest of that group was in similar gear and we cleared both HMs for the weekly. The enrage on the shockbot is insanely long.

 

You did this one time and use only that experience for your statement?

 

I base my conclusion of over PUG 10+ HM kills on that droid boss where it sometimes enraged while we killed it. I have 14 level 55s (very soon 16) in various itemlevels.

 

Yes ofcourse it is possible to kill the droid, I only hope Bioware has some kind of testing team that can verify if the enrage timer is working as intended. It is not a insane achievement to kill it with minimum gear, I simply state it needs tweaking.

 

It is not extremely hard to do, but the enrage timer needs to be looked at a second time or perhaps a third. Do not be surprised if it shows up either as a stealth change or in the patchnotes in the near future. The difficulty of the boss is fine with its electrical water, I am only refering to the enrage timer.

 

It is not tuned for a pug wearing minimum gear, no way it is equal to the rest of the bosses in other HMs where you almost can sleep your way through.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Icestar