Yay you didn't all implode. Congrats on the progress thus far!

Where my Reps at? Did everyone implode on themselves after we left?

Is their job answering your questions or making a game for you?

Been like 11 days chillax.

Pretty simple. Point 1: Damage reduction to Guards vs Sents. Sents have inspiration/zen/etc, offhands and other tools within their trees to do more damage without the need for a rend. Guardians do not possess those offensive cooldowns, raid utilities, offhands and fun talents. To make up for this we have armor reduction which we share with a few other classes. Point 2: You're ignoring the fundamental bit of classes in SWTOR. These are advanced classes. We are Jedi Knights first, Guardians or Sentinels second. We will share basic abilities and Dispatch happens to be one of them. Point 3: I do agree that I wish we were different in this regard but I wouldn't say that sharing this mechanic is wrong or makes Guards carbon copies. This ability is flavor for us, a little sweetener to our DPS. Point 4: Look at the tools provided to both. When a Combat sent is in full swing their mitigation is on par with Guards. Watchmen has self healing to offset their lack of armor. Sents have the best (even with the recent guard changes) suite of defensive cooldowns. The armor point is pretty much a wash. If you're having issues taking down a Guardian I recommend rolling one and learning its weaknesses. Also check out any of the guides on the Sent forums, the few that I read where mostly correct.

Great heals. The heavy armor makes her way better than Doc. She doesn't do as much DPS as Kira in tank or heal spec. I use her (Treek) for most content so I don't have to stop and rest. Makes heroics a joke.

Look at the other questions. At most a couple paragraphs and their answers were quite sufficient. And I've worked for years as a developer, I can assure you we don't want the wordiness. I think the way it was reduced by Mr. Fuzzle is perfect. It covers just our comments and concerns without the fluff.

Heh nice to see we didn't even try to fix the wordiness. Too much text.

:D This is why I urged us to make sure that the new changes didn't have a substantial impact on this point. I'd cut it in favor of something else. And strongly urge you to put at most a paragraph before the question as other top 3 questions have been formatted.

Is all the text before the questions going to be included or just the question? If it is going to be included we really need to reduce the wall of text. I understand we want to be thorough, but this is way way too much. Gotta be succinct. No one wants to read 4 or 5 paragraphs before each question. Just imagine someone coming to ask you a question and giving you a soliloquy first. You'd walk out of the room. Ideally I wouldn't put more than a paragraph before the question.

You do realise they will have to overhaul the other two trees to do that. It's not as simple as merging talents together in one tree. As it stands we need to lose 2 points somewhere to bring us in line with the other classes. We're not that far off. I think it's a gross exaggeration to say we have severe talent bloat. 1 of those points was recently added in, so really we were on 1 point away. Lose 2 at most 3 points. losing 6 is just ridiculous.

Is this tested with the new changes? I just wouldn't want to waste a question on a nice to have when there are other needs out there. I wasn't on the PTS so I didn't see if the changes to Enure and all that jazz had a meaningful impact on what you are saying. If it didn't then ask away, but if it made a considerable impact it might be best to ask a different more pressing question.

Exactly. It should also be noted that Sages are one of the classes that still needs a bit of a top up. Once they get it all will be right with the world.

Ignoring your flawed logic..... A boost like what I proposed has far less impact on our overall DPS than the offensive guard. We're talking a situational 2 minute+ cooldown akin to what every other class gets. This isn't a one or two classes kind of thing, but all of them. Do I think we really need it to be effective right now? No. Do I think it is useful to have a cooldown like this in our arsenal for when they balance out the rest of the classes? Yes. They can add it in whenever they finish this latest round of class balancing changes. I don't care what the other classes are saying about wanting to nerf us, they're going through every single class and spec adjusting them all. They're doing it one or two at a time so someone may be **** of the walk right now, but eventually it'll all be balanced out. And Sents have far better CDs than any other class in the game so they can cry all they want but it won't go far unless they want to be cut down themselves. And don't L2P me if I have shown anything on these discussions it's that I'm far from a noob when it comes to guard. I can't say the same of you.

Name some. It is a known design idea yes that doesn't mean that it will apply to our system here. You can't toss in a LotRO mechanic just because you like it and it's in the "mmo scene." It has to work with what we have going. Aside, why is it that anyone's suggestions for a new cooldown will "ENSURE us getting nerfed back into the ground" but yours is quite alright? Just very interesting. Now to be fair I am fine with our current suite of CDs both offensively and defensively. Would I be happy to see some sort of oh **** button to pop when you can't get uptime on a boss for some reason (add duty, stuck fighting your companion, stuck in prison, etc)? You bet. And I don't see a 2 minute cooldown akin to the ones the other classes have breaking the game. Again, the only thing that should ever ensure a player's spot is how well they play, not a mechanic that makes their class a requirement for a group. You should leave the discussions to the rest of us rather than constantly derail them with your negativity and doomcalling.

Heh. Guild ships and housing, you should just go to Wildstar. You know anything they offer you here will pale in comparison to the options you get there. I hope they right this ship. I prefer SW and the Old Republic era has limitless potential. Hell I'd love to see them do something like GW2 did with Lion's Arch.

Stay on topic and for the love of god stop being such a belligerent *** all the time. As for you commitment, I would hope that rather than derail discussions by being overly verbose and argumentative you would actually contribute. So far you're just exercising the report post buttons of all involved. The offensive guard at least in the form you propose is identical to the normal guard with a damage increase added on. It's not particularly elegant and you're right it would make guards pretty much a lock for one dps spot....which is bad design. No class should have a utility that makes them required. You could argue that Inspiration does this, but with the classes as close to one another on DPS now and limited to once per 5 minutes it's not as killer as it once was. As for the name of the OPs idea I really don't care what it's called. So how about you contribute to the discussion about the skill rather than the name. To do otherwise is truly idiotic.

The 2.6 changes had nothing to do with anything we suggested other than we want something to change. I mean the community grapeshot at least 30 different "fixes" to that particular mechanic and they partially implemented one. The original idea is too powerful and as far as I know the only offensive ability with a negative effect. There's Guarded by the Force but that's defensive and makes sense. It'd be a good idea to look at what is out there and make something that follows suit. A few examples: Illegal Mods - Inc range and tech acc by 30% and armor pen by 15% for 10 sec. CD 120sec Pugnacity - Gain Upper Hand and alacrity by 10% for 15 seconds CD 120 sec Tech Override - next ability with a cast time is instant . CD 120 sec Force Potency - 2 charges, inc Force crit chance of direct attacks and range of Tele Throw to 30 meters. CD 120 sec Converting Alec's into this format: Last Stand - 2 charges, increases Force dmg of direct attacks (keeps it from being wasted on dots) and grants 30% alacrity. Each direct attack consumes 1 charge and lasts 15 seconds. CD 120 seconds. I'd almost do something like this: Last Stand - 2 charges, increases Force dmg of direct attacks and reduces minimum range of leap to 0 meters. Each direct attack consumes 1 charge and lasts 15 seconds. CD 120 sec I tossed the leap thing in there for ***** and giggles since I'm not a big alacrity fan especially for just 2 attacks. Could provide some interesting gameplay opportunities and gives you at least the option for all the perks leap gives you. Naturally you can put whatever "and" in there you want. You could increase the charges if you reduced the amount of dmg increased, but even then I probably wouldn't go beyond 3. Just some food for more thought.

Don't know where we are with questions but Focus was addressed in the Marauder answers. Be careful there isn't some overlap there to maximize the info you all get.

Pub side first to down DF/DP HM? Just because we left doesn't mean you gotta lie to the people you're trying to recruit. I mean 16 man sure, but as we all know that's the easier of the 2 options. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=682956 For the sake of honesty. Vertere is Pub side server 4th on DP HM and 3rd on DF HM. Best of luck!

Yes. Do some legwork next time the answer to your questions is (at the time of this response) the first post below yours. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=621208 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/guardian/225/?build=020200000000000000000000000000000302302021200131212203200300010003200001000000000000000000000000&ver=20

Good luck. Girth doesn't play around. You've got your work cut out for you.

Recruiting closed.

It'll be another couple tiers of gear before I bother looking at alacrity again. It's ok for classes that have regen on their resources.

We do have a little bloat but you'd need to merge like skills rather than just anything and probably only remove 2 or 3 points. Keeping in mind you need to retaining the 36 point critical path for PvE and keep things out of the hands of Focus and Tanks . Specing for PvP you have to make trade-offs from the maximum DPS spec for survivability and uptime. Putting the PvP talents we have in the PvE critical path is kind of meh. All of them are at best a minimal gain to dps maybe a dozen times over the course of an entire ops run. I think you have it right merging debilitation with gather strength. The others I can't really get behind and a 44 point tree is perfectly in line with others.