New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?

[Cody-licious]

I'm loving the level of over-reactions by ALL of the people who have 1-shotted these 2 new Flashpoints.

 

As far as I'm aware, only ONE person (the original poster) found it quasi-difficult (but still completed it), and was wondering whether the HM version might be slightly overtuned for average gear/skill players. ONLY ONE!! And yet there is mass assumption that 'the whole community' has called for the Flashpoints to be nerfed already.

 

I really wish people would read the whole threads before adding their useless comments, since it's pretty clear that most of the people actually want the encounters made more difficult.

[Qvasar]

ONLY ONE!!

Two actually (see post #69).

 

That is not the issue though. It's the fact that every time new content comes out there is always someone asking for it to be nerfed and eventually it does get nerfed... I don't know what's going on at Bioware but from my PoV what happens is:

1. New content gets released
   
2. 24hrs after or less there is a thread asking for a nerf
   
3. Thread gets massive attention of people saying the content needs a buff, not a nerf
   
4. Content gets nerfed...
   

[morfius]

I disagree. They are tuned for 61 gear at best. When the expansion came out I ran them (like pretty much everyone else) in full 61/63 groups and we managed to get through them fast and without significant issues. Their overall difficulty with 61 gear I significantly lower than Taral V's back in January 2012 in dailies gear (for example).

In 66 gear they become easy, and in 69/72/75 it's just a joke.

 

As another example: TfB SM and S&V SM now drop Arkanian (69) gear. Most LFG (full PuG) groups fall apart and can't clear the instance. Do you feel this is on par with the difficulty of the flashpoints? They are tuned for roughly the same gear...

 

You currently have a 69-page thread (The weird people you meet in Group Finder.) filled with stories of people that go to HM flashpoints with:

• Missing gear
  
• Extremely low rating gear (e.g. level 30'ish greens)
  
• Wrong main stat on gear
  
• Wrong or no stance
  
• Wrong roles (e.g. tanks in DPS gear who don't know what a taunt is)
  
• Wrong abilities for skill tree
  
• ...
  

And yet these people manage to complete these HM flashpoints and continue going about their business feeling everything is fine! This is not OK!

 

 

Agree, but it still doesn't solve the problem that HM flashpoints are well... not hard (in their recommended gear).

 

They are not easy in 66, at least for most players... not all of us live to race with elitists in a game.

61/63 means you raided before, you got sicked groups and know mechanics.

And I know about this tread... don't speak about such cases.

So please stop with ideas that content has to be inaccessible for most players just because it is easy for small part of them.

Edited August 8, 2013 by morfius

[Qvasar]

elitists in a game

It's not about making the content inaccessible nor being able to say "I'm so pro because can do HM flashpoints and you can't". These days the word elitist is being throw around every time someone says "learn mechanics, improve, or deal with the fact you don't have the skill required to do it".

 

People are not made equal, and in these game there is a great (and increasing) number or people who don't bother with learning mechanics, class rotations, adequate gearing, etc... Why design a game for people who don't even care enough to learn to play it properly? If it's a hard mode flashpoint then design it for a good player (not the uber-elite). At the moment hard mode is for everyone which makes it no different than story.

 

Anyways I've made my point (repeatedly and in many threads) so I'll take my leave here.

[morfius]

It's not about making the content inaccessible nor being able to say "I'm so pro because can do HM flashpoints and you can't". These days the word elitist is being throw around every time someone says "learn mechanics, improve, or deal with the fact you don't have the skill required to do it".

 

People are not made equal, and in these game there is a great (and increasing) number or people who don't bother with learning mechanics, class rotations, adequate gearing, etc... Why design a game for people who don't even care enough to learn to play it properly? If it's a hard mode flashpoint then design it for a good player (not the uber-elite). At the moment hard mode is for everyone which makes it no different than story.

 

Anyways I've made my point (repeatedly and in many threads) so I'll take my leave here.

 

You just cannot get it...

Same mistake in blue 66 and in 69 (not even all items) gear means wipe in first case and some more cool downs in second.

If you expect nobody to do even small mistakes for whole FPs ever ... word elitist is just in place.

Or if you go to new FPs with raiding gear and complain that they are too easy and has to be made so hard than to be challenge for raiders... I have no other word.

I have no issue with mechanics, rotations, gearing & so on... I just trying to explain that about 50% of the players stays in middle ground, not in your tread above, but also not in top 20 of raiders.

[Ausgelebt]

If people fail in these new hardmode flashpoints they should finally realize that their skill level is too low. Practice and improve just like other people do. It is all about team play and practice you don't wanna know how often "elitist" groups wipe on nightmare encounters before they clear them. It is a simple process of improving.

 

PS: Full group of 63s is doable without being super pro, you just gotta know your char and what you do. Cooldowns are there to use them.

 

For me it seems that many people just want access to everything by not doing anything. A huge problem in this game is that many many players overestimate themselves too much..

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[morfius]

If people fail in these new hardmode flashpoints they should finally realize that their skill level is too low. Practice and improve just like other people do. It is all about team play and practice you don't wanna know how often "elitist" groups wipe on nightmare encounters before they clear them. It is a simple process of improving.

 

PS: Full group of 63s is doable without being super pro, you just gotta know your char and what you do. Cooldowns are there to use them.

 

What skill is too low if 3 normal mobs (spore boss adds) kill your dps sage for less than 3 seconds, and hit on tank worst than the boss itself?

There is nothing nowhere mentioned than those adds have to be kited or tanked... but if you just leave them to DPS burn as it is usual for normal ads... you got dead DPS.

It may be a bug ... but if not - I cannot see it as skill, but as clearly overpowered HM.

[Kespar]

Seriously?

 

I solo'd the one with the bio-dome bosses in on my vengeance jugg with Quinn in SM, so yes...easy but then its designed that way on purpose as others have said.

 

The same fight in HM I healed on my sorc in a partisan PVP set - yes it was tricky, but no It was nothing like too hard, or LI in its original state.

[Ausgelebt]

What skill is too low if 3 normal mobs (spore boss adds) kill your dps sage for less than 3 seconds, and hit on tank worst than the boss itself?

There is nothing nowhere mentioned than those adds have to be kited or tanked... but if you just leave them to DPS burn as it is usual for normal ads... you got dead DPS.

It may be a bug ... but if not - I cannot see it as skill, but as clearly overpowered HM.

 

 

Shield, Force Wave, Selfheal, Force Quake (drops them all to the ground), godmode bubble so they switch other members

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[morfius]

Shield, Force Wave, Selfheal, Force Quake (drops them all to the ground), godmode bubble so they switch to healers

 

Switch to healer... very good advise thanks.

My is to go play EVE online.

[Ausgelebt]

Switch to healer... very good advise thanks.

My is to go play EVE online.

 

Uhm this is actually stuff you can do to survive as dps. But as you don't realize how your class works, you might be unable to finish the flashpoints because the lack of knowledge?

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[morfius]

Uhm this is actually stuff you can do to survive as dps. But as you don't realize how your class works, you might be unable to finish the flashpoints because the lack of knowledge?

 

Way to DPS survival is to leave adds on healer?

What will happen with this DPS when healer got out of resources/dies?

What will happen with this DPS if tank dies due to healer keep himself/herself or kiting mobs?

 

You (as many above) forget how huge is the difference between initial quest/crafted 66 gear and 69/72.

 

There is something wrong in this case ... why nobody from PTS mentioned kiting or tanking those 3 normal mobs?

Edited August 8, 2013 by morfius

[Screaming_Ziva]

Wearing UW gear ran with UW geared group, i dont think HM is overtuned. It's fine as it is.... imo.

I haven't run them yet in HM but of course YOU think they're fine. They're supposed to be run with 66 gear (since 69 drops). You and your group in UW (72) gear were overgeared for them.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Screaming_Ziva

[Angedechu]

Well, I did Labs HM last night, and my group bailed out on third first boss attempt.

 

Honestly, as a healer, I did not find it too hard-it was VERY long however, and being pulled over the water when the little adds spawn is a dead sentence for the healer.

[morfius]

If people fail in these new hardmode flashpoints they should finally realize that their skill level is too low. Practice and improve just like other people do. It is all about team play and practice you don't wanna know how often "elitist" groups wipe on nightmare encounters before they clear them. It is a simple process of improving.

 

PS: Full group of 63s is doable without being super pro, you just gotta know your char and what you do. Cooldowns are there to use them.

 

For me it seems that many people just want access to everything by not doing anything. A huge problem in this game is that many many players overestimate themselves too much..

 

O what I have missed

You expect all PUGs to go with TS and stick together till they work as NM raid?

You expect all players to be hardcore raiders in constant rush for top 20?

Never tried with 63s, but with 66 blue items... simple mistake due to missing real time communication is on wipe edge.

You part of players has to understand that only content you will ever find challenging is far above starting level of HM FPs with entry gear level.

[Ocho-Quatro]

heals never miss, do they? even without any point in accuracy...

 

Accuracy is very important for tanks and healers...

 

Healer w/ no accuracy: Selects team member, uses big single target heal. It misses, and heals the boss instead.

 

Tank w/ no accuracy: Taunts the boss, misses, and hits a tree. Now, you have a boss beating on the healer, and a tree angry at the tank, tossing acorns at him.

 

They are both bad news.

[Arkerus]

SM is supposed to be that way. They are basically 2+ heroics.

 

HM...I didn't get a chance to do it yet but I assume there is learning curve. Once you are past the curve it will become a lot easier...like all the other FPs.

 

I don't mind it being tough as long as its not artificial tough (mechanics you can't avoid or "cheating").

[morfius]

You're just bad, but you can compensate by writing dissertations on the forum, nothing new here.

 

You just ask for trolling report... nothing new here

[psandak]

Did not bother reading all ten pages, but my 2c is this:

 

SM are 2+. they are glorified, instanced, planetary heroics. Bring four players to ANY 2+ heroic and it will be easy. Over gear them and they will be even more so. On Tuesday night, my guild was talking about the fact that with a BM geared character and companion, one could solo the SM versions, but it would take a while.

 

HM are tuned just right when you realize that they are on the same level as the existing level 55 HM FPs. For a set of characters who just turned 55, they will be very difficult just like the 55HMFPs were when 2.0 was released. For a group in full Black Market/Arkanian gear just running the HMFPs for the weekly to get ultimate comms, the only hard part is determining the exact mechanics. On Tuesday, I ran the HM Meltdown FP and the group wiped once on each boss but only because we just jumped in. Once we figured out the mechanics of each, they were easy.

[Ausgelebt]

You ignore so many facts. If you fail with PUG groups, get them on ts/vent/mumble and explain the stuff to them. If you think you are sufficient for the FP carry the mistakes out (this is very possible, as those new flashpoints mechanics can be all ignored if you got high dps or a good tank or a good heal, so no matter which role you fit you can carry out others mistakes).

 

I ran it with 2 pugs and 1 friend myself being a sage heal while a 25k life blue/purple story rewards tank a 27k dps gunslinger and the other dps being 69s.

 

In this thread there are so many excuses finally figure that you need to improve to beat this and of course for the people that know their class and stuff it is easy, no matter if 63 or 75. Move your *********** overestimations of yourself and adapt to the new flashpoints and you will easymode them also, at least if you are able to use more than 3 binded keys.

 

This is nothing about elitist. Elitist is clearing 55 nm raid every tuesday and thursday. These flashpoints are a joke but of course if you are 90% brainafk AND undergeared you will fail, thats how games work.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[Jeweledleah]

You can just put your comapnion on passive, run away and he will resummon next to you... then you order him to attack... all while in combat.

 

I did that. it worked only half the time. it was what slowed me down, the fact that he wouldn't show up next to me to kill another core and especially for the adds.

[Ansalem]

Don't get what the hubub is all about. These fights are all easy these flashpoints are super small super fast which is good. It gives the casuals a lil fun trying to figure out the super easy mechanics. Since a majority of the people that play swtor this is an appropriate challenge level. If you are too bad to figure out the easy mechanics and have a smooth run then I'm sorry but this is not the game for you.

[WillHolmes]

Accuracy is very important for tanks and healers...

 

Healer w/ no accuracy: Selects team member, uses big single target heal. It misses, and heals the boss instead.

 

Tank w/ no accuracy: Taunts the boss, misses, and hits a tree. Now, you have a boss beating on the healer, and a tree angry at the tank, tossing acorns at him.

 

They are both bad news.

 

welcome to backwards land ! (so many goons are gunna think your serious)

[WillHolmes]

This is nothing about elitist. Elitist is clearing 55 nm raid every tuesday and thursday. These flashpoints are a joke but of course if you are 90% brainafk AND undergeared you will fail, thats how games work.

 

Brain Afk is exactly how players want this game.

 

R.I.P the real LI

 

/vote NIM FP's instead of PVP Arena !!!!! gunna make this a thread people will go nuts

[Krewel]

You just ask for trolling report... nothing new here

 

Your point?