New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?

[Arch_Angel_Gabe]

Well, we ran it tonight on our alts (corporate labs first, and then meltdown second). Pretty much 69's for gear.

 

Results:

 

No wipes

3 deaths

 

Had we run this on our 'A' team, this would have put me to sleep.

 

Now, to be fair, this isn't a 'walk in the park,' but it isn't difficult. I believe this could be done with a group in 66's without too much trouble. I even believe this could be done with a group in 63's who are elite. I think this is tuned just right for a HM, but would LOVE a NiM mode... Give us another Lost Island.

 

That said, if people want a challenge, I suggest attempting this in augmented 61's. See who can beat it. I'd be willing to try.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Arch_Angel_Gabe

[Ausgelebt]

Ran it with this comp:

 

Vanguard Tank 69s/72s

Sage DPS 72s

Sentinel DPS 72s

Sage Healer 69s/72s

 

 

we had no problems at all, didn't even care about mechanics but zerged down all the blue and red adds, ignored the sandstorm generator in the other flashpoint etc, healed through the electric waterfield..

 

This flashpoints are nowhere of a challenge. The SM ones, I solo them as a Sentinel with a 69s/72s aug'd Doc..

 

 

PS: also did it with twinks mixed in 63gears.. In my opinion people complain too much. If you can't beat something, try to get better. I'd really appreciate to get nightmare flashpoints where you have to work as a group and have reactions and skill.

 

Gotta make a video how to beat it in 63s easily (just like beating 55 SM asation right when it came out..)

Edited August 8, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[pan_sObak]

I was hoping protip: accuracy ensures your heals never miss.

 

heals never miss, do they? even without any point in accuracy...

Edited August 8, 2013 by pan_sObak

[pan_sObak]

The run I described was a LFG pug. Vanguard Tank was in PvP gear, Scoundrel healer in 69/72; Sentinel DPS #1 in 72/75; Sentinel DPS #2 in 69/72;

How?!

Of course they are supposed to be HARD! What do you think the "H" stands for? The problem is that all flashpoints currently on the LFG (these two included of course) are a walk in the park and boring to the point of no one wanting to do them.

Honestly enough is enough! Every time new content comes out there is always someone crying for a nerf! Just because YOU can't do it, it doesn't mean it requires a nerf. Deal with it, move to an easier game, but stop attempting to destroy the game for everyone else!

 

the 55 HM flashpoints ARE NOT supposed to be done in 69/72 gear

they are supposed to be run in 66 gear and to provide 69 gear

 

all those cryers about "too easy" flashpoints are just like teenager who came to the elementary school and said "what's the problem with counting 2+2!? it's too easy and i am the cleverest!"

 

that's a gear progression game

you are not supposed to run 55HM flashpoints in 69/72 gear

you outgeared this content already

 

go and play with big boys

do not cry about kid's sandbox too easy for you

[pan_sObak]

Simply put, there's only content, no progression in these flashpoints.

 

yes

but it was never promised to be new progression

 

the progression was not a long ago - with NiM mode of Ops

 

may be there is a lack of content in the game for people in 69 gear and above - they can run only operations and no flashpoints to progress further

 

then there should be NiM Flashpoints too for them

 

so they do not cry how easy to run in 72 gear the content two grades lower

[mastirkal]

heals never miss, do they? even without any point in accuracy...

Holy crap he went right over your head.

 

the 55 HM flashpoints ARE NOT supposed to be done in 69/72 gear

they are supposed to be run in 66 gear and to provide 69 gear

 

all those cryers about "too easy" flashpoints are just like teenager who came to the elementary school and said "what's the problem with counting 2+2!? it's too easy and i am the cleverest!"

 

that's a gear progression game

you are not supposed to run 55HM flashpoints in 69/72 gear

you outgeared this content already

 

go and play with big boys

do not cry about kid's sandbox too easy for you

 

Point is, people are ************ that it's too hard. It's not. It would be challenging for a team of 63/66 but 66/69 wouldn't have much of a problem regardless. Competence in this game counts for more than gear.

[pan_sObak]

Point is, people are ************ that it's too hard. It's not. It would be challenging for a team of 63/66 but 66/69 wouldn't have much of a problem regardless. Competence in this game counts for more than gear.

 

may be

certainly is :-)

 

i run yesterday CZ SM both in 4-men PUGs through GF and with a mate

got a lot of 66 blues for my droids

 

and must say runing 2-men was easier then running it through GF...

gonna soon find out if i can solo SM in 69 gear

[Justcae]

yes

but it was never promised to be new progression

 

the progression was not a long ago - with NiM mode of Ops

 

may be there is a lack of content in the game for people in 69 gear and above - they can run only operations and no flashpoints to progress further

 

then there should be NiM Flashpoints too for them

 

so they do not cry how easy to run in 72 gear the content two grades lower

 

Which they could have done with this update. They could have made SM the actual SM where it's balanced around 63/66 gear and they would get upgrades accordingly. They could have made HM actually hard and -require- 69's and reward 72's. Which would let people flesh out there characters playing the game rather than playing the AH.

 

If they would have made it harder, and reward 72's it would be a way for people not in those raiding guilds, or those people whose schedule doesn't line up to progress their characters in a meaningful way. NiM raiding Ops already has access to 75 gear so you won't hear them complain about 72's be attainable through a hard FP. Especially when the gear is already craftable.

 

But they didn't do it that way at all. Instead we got a SM that is a joke, and HM's that are blended with content that already preformed that function. Which were also very easy.

 

Flashpoints/Instances whatever you want to call them are typically where new players learn how to play there class. It's also where players learn the finesse of their class so that when they go do operations/raids they don't function like a complete idiot.

 

You -need- content in the game that challenges players, that allows them to build themselves up. Players do NOT have repeatable content where they can work on their skills/character.

[pan_sObak]

Which they could have done with this update. They could have made SM the actual SM where it's balanced around 63/66 gear and they would get upgrades accordingly. They could have made HM actually hard and -require- 69's and reward 72's.

 

totally agreed.

 

but that wasn't done yet

and as far as i know wasn't even promised

 

i was enraged only because of i am tired of all those "elitist" crys about "you noobs it's easy!" from overgeared people

content is made for certain lvl of gear, not for higher

 

If they would have made it harder, and reward 72's it would be a way for people not in those raiding guilds, or those people whose schedule doesn't line up to progress their characters in a meaningful way.

 

that's my story of life!

 

i have no time enough for ops raids and only run flashpoints and dailies from time to time

and i have a lot of alts :-)

 

but even i can say that there are already many content to get 66 gear (Section X, Black Hole, Makeb Staged, GSI, CZ), enough content (6 flashpoints now, plus 2 SM Ops) to get 69 gear

and nothing (except 2 Ops) to run in it

 

there's really a lack of content for 69 and higher geared players

but that's not an excuse to ruin 66 gear content :-)

[Jeweledleah]

may be

certainly is :-)

 

i run yesterday CZ SM both in 4-men PUGs through GF and with a mate

got a lot of 66 blues for my droids

 

and must say runing 2-men was easier then running it through GF...

gonna soon find out if i can solo SM in 69 gear

 

so far I've been able to solo labs with zero issues. meltdown... can't seem to get cores on last boss fast enough before he enrages... going to try respeccing and see if its any better as dps rather than healer with tanking companion...

 

edited. almost got him as dps..... I wish companions would follow you properly instead of just randomly staying in a previous level you were at. highly annoying.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[RakeshZeal]

Did Meltdown on HM with 2 people today, wiped once on the jungle boss cause of the adds.

 

Annihilation Mara/Leath-Heal Hybrid, Tomorrow for Labs.

[NerdTech]

I find them just right, enough of a challenge but not to bad once you know the correct tactics. Although I don't know why they exist, they offer nothing in the way of gear progression... as far as I'm aware the Vigilant only drops an Arkanian ear or implant. It would have been nice to give the new fp's more of an incentive to go down over the others.

[inc_CichYBoB]

problem is there's no real incentive to do hm versions. its better to do story and get some basic coms for isotops.

[pan_sObak]

I wish companions would follow you properly instead of just randomly staying in a previous level you were at. highly annoying.

 

i usually dismiss and summon it again. it helps :-)

[Jeweledleah]

i usually dismiss and summon it again. it helps :-)

 

can't do that while in combat - and once you start killing cores - you stay in combat, until you kill the boss, reset it completely... or die. 3 of the cores are up on a balcony, that you can only reach via teleporters. apparently Xalek doesn't know how to jump down >_> even though his master just jumped in front of him. useless apprentice.. yeah, you are never becoming master at this rate, silly goose >_<.

 

otherwise, its what I do.

 

something to note for those who plan on soloing and haven't tried yet (not sure if I mentioned it here and too lazy to look back) kolto stations only work if you are grouped. solo zoning in makes them inoperable.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[gergod]

You can just put your comapnion on passive, run away and he will resummon next to you... then you order him to attack... all while in combat.

[demotivator]

I did both in SM, and the one without Mr. Blys in HM. The SM was a joke, but I expected that. Anything that doesn't require a tank or healer is bound to be laughable to any competent group. We then did the HM version, and one-shotted everything. I'm a well-geared tank, and our healer is really good as well, but it was still what I would call easy.

 

I was hoping for pre-pre-pre-nerf Lost Island, and got nothing even close. If anything, the HM's should be harder.

 

The Meltdown fp is exactly of the same level than the old Lost Island. LI never was difficult, it was all about boss mechanics (interrupting Incinerate, hitting the terms asap when Sav-Rak jumps on a pipe, kill the kolto tanks asap and avoid Lorrick's green crap and so on), as long as your group would be aware of these mechanics the whole thing was a breath.

 

It's exactly what is happening with the Meldown part: the Duneclaw will litterally crush your party in a matter of seconds if you don't destroy the green generator asap but if you do so you will take so little damage that can't be healed that it will be a walk in the park. The same applies with The Vigilant, failure to avoid his Spin attack will rape you hard.

 

So yeah both fps are really on par since it is all about boss mechanics and any group aware of them and executing what is required will have no trouble at all exactly how LI was no trouble either if you knew what you were doing.

Edited August 8, 2013 by demotivator

[Qvasar]

all those cryers about "too easy" flashpoints are just like teenager who came to the elementary school and said "what's the problem with counting 2+2!? it's too easy and i am the cleverest!"

 

I am well aware of what the recommended gear level for those flashpoints is, and that I am overgeared for them. But something is very wrong when you can complete it in 61/63, which is the case with all level 55 HM flashpoints.

 

Also you must keep in mind that one of the most criticized aspects of this game is the lack of endgame content. Do you really think these flashpoints are meant to be something you only do as a fresh level 55 in 66 gear or below? If that is the case then it was a terrible misuse of developer resources.

 

In my opinion all the level 55 HM flashpoints need t be impossible to clear in 61/63 gear, extremely difficult at their recommended gear level, and still challenging when overgeared.

 

Honestly, even at the recommended gear level, when you get a flashpoint pop on LFG do you think "I need to bring my A-game now because this is not going to be easy"?

[morfius]

HM are too OP than older HM FPs or bugged... after failing to update in SM on my wife, we decide to try HM on second FP.

Till first boss nothing unusual, then the mess begin - 3 normal adds kills Basic+ geared sage in less than 3 seconds (we have 2 - one DPS, one healer) and hit on tank more than boss (second time tried tanking those in addition to boss).

After 3 tries (spore boss) we just left... it was not about strategy (kiting to spore and debuff boss, pop some cooldowns & so on), it was just not right... normal adds in HM have to be DPS task, not under 3 sec killers.

If it is a bug 2+ version suggest some fun in HM, if not ... then PTS whining from elitists just made another part of game unusable until over-geared.

Will see ...

[Leafy_Bug]

As soon as the server came out I did the new FPS. After 2 days I can final form an opinion about them. Please find below :

 

 

1. Why were they split? It makes no sense to make them so short, honestly. You run left, click a console, fight a boss, run back, this time run right, fight another boss, a few packs of trash, cut scene, the end??

 

 

2. I would like to know who designed the Vrbithhger (whatever you call it) fight? That is the most annoying thing in the game. I think this game truly needed more knockbacks. We did not have enough. Let me explain the tanking perspective. You pull the boss, and all you do as tank wait for him to stun you, incapacitate you and push you towards the flowers. The guy who thought this would be fun needs a 50 DKP minus on his salary! Waste of time this fight, is.

 

 

3. Now after this boss, you go to the other side of the complex and enter the sandstorm environment. What happens the first thing you do when you pull? Gee, leafy, I don't know? The boss jumps on you and stuns you!! *Hurray* Need moar annoying stuns!! So this boss, mechanics wise, is very similar to the Vrbithhger. Less knockbacks and he has to break the environment controls not you. *hurray for originality*

 

4. The dude that tries to be 'operations chief from SV'. This guy has a lot of potential, when the red beam comes from the boss, make him hit harder, something like terminate. He is too easy.

 

 

5. The droid in the water. This one had a lot of potential to be the LI sentinel droid type of boss. Make his enrage timer tighter and let him dish out more damage. We want LI type content not taral v type. Give us a challenge to actually want to do flash points not faceroll them.

 

 

6. The 'dude connected to the matrix'. I think BioWare outdone themselves with this fight. If Cartel Warlords was a snoozefest if you were kiting Sunder, this one tops the charts. You have a fancy cutscene and you say Yippee-ki-yay failed experiment!!! What do you do? Kill 7 cores, place a sparkle thingie, tank some adds, boss comes down, tank boss, get smashed, get a Kephess move on you, boss dead.

 

 

7. Dr. Lorric version 2.3. This boss is a bit of deja vu with experiments in tanks. He vanishes like Lorric and moves around the room like him. I think they was sisters because they have the same yolo-swag majiggy! So nuke boss, tank adds, nuke boss, tank adds, profit?

 

 

 

 

All in all the new flashpoints are more for Eyecandy and not for people who are looking for a Lost Island thrill. They are by far the best looking flashpoints in the game and the whole 'cerberus' type feeling is nice. I kept thinking I am killing ILM henchmen. Design and gameplay wise, they are really not worth a rat's bum because of two reasons : first they are two short. You get into them and what happens? You just finished one. Second, the mechanics are nothing worthy of thinking and having a challenge. When LI came out it was something new fresh and well designed. This borrows mechanics from left and right without any shame.

 

 

Compositions used to clear this :

 

1. BIS 72 Shadow Tank over 2500 mitigation budget. I ran with this for the achievements.

2. BIS 72 Sentinel with over 1500 Bonus Damage. He also ran with this for the achievements.

3. BiS 72 Commando, again for the achievements.

4. BIS 72 Sage Healer, achievement run.

 

Our second and third run consisted of :

 

1. 61-69 random gear Vanguard tank

2. 61-69 gear Gunslinger

3. 66-69 gear Sentinel

4. 61-69 gear Scoundrel healer.

 

 

Verdict : Thank the dude who gave us Taun Tauns!!!!

Design and Gameplay : 4/10

Eyecandy : 10/10

Edited August 8, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

[pan_sObak]

In my opinion all the level 55 HM flashpoints need t be impossible to clear in 61/63 gear, extremely difficult at their recommended gear level, and still challenging when overgeared.

 

but do you remember all those cryes about "OH how my dear dreadguard gear will be uselless when Makeb go live!?"

so they made new 55HM content able to run through in 61/63

 

Honestly, even at the recommended gear level, when you get a flashpoint pop on LFG do you think "I need to bring my A-game now because this is not going to be easy"?

 

i am just running mostly in 66-69 mix, sometimes in 61-66 on some alts

easy or not depends usually on PUG skills :-)

 

even 72 can make the run a pain in one place...

especially for a healer, like me

[Qvasar]

but do you remember all those cryes about "OH how my dear dreadguard gear will be uselless when Makeb go live!?"

 

I also remember the cries saying the level 50 HM were easy, 2-mannable, didn't even require a tank, etc... It is a fact you can't make everyone happy.

 

It is still better to annoy people on an expansion (making their current gear worthless) and risk losing a few subscribers over it, than to annoy people for months after said expansion and risk all your current subscribers and F2P that feel the endgame is not worth subscribing.

 

EDIT

I'm pretty in the coming months when Bioware takes a look at the metrics for these new flashpoints they'll see people did them a few times on week #1 then they slipped into oblivion along with the rest of flashpoints people only do for the weekly (at best). We need lasting content, not flavor-of-the-week.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Qvasar

[oaceen]

as has been said, the SMs are 2+ flashpoints with no role requirement whatsoever

 

i soloed both of them on my commando with treek last night

 

 

 

i think if the new HMs are intended to be harder than the current HMs (cad/mando/etc.), then having their own tier wouldn't be a bad thing, but i'm not sure if they necessarily are harder. they are probably a bit more difficult now because they are new, whereas the other 55s have been out for a few months, and lots of people are quite used to the mechanics by now.

 

i'm sure in a week or two, you'll probably find them just as easy as the other current HMs

[morfius]

Old 55 HM FP (I hope new ones also) are tuned over 66 blue gear... not over old 63 one.

55 HM FPs after all are middle step between leveling and end game... if they tune them over 69/72 what would freshly leveled characters have to do - grind 100 millions of credits for GTN to make raiders richer == make BW put more credit sinks in game?

 

For those that mess FPs with OPS I hope BW put NM mode of all FPs that would be tunned over 69/72/75 ... for new characters, hope they make all FPs have 55 HM on same level as first 4.

[Qvasar]

Old 55 HM FP (I hope new ones also) are tuned over 66 blue gear... not over old 63 one.

I disagree. They are tuned for 61 gear at best. When the expansion came out I ran them (like pretty much everyone else) in full 61/63 groups and we managed to get through them fast and without significant issues. Their overall difficulty with 61 gear I significantly lower than Taral V's back in January 2012 in dailies gear (for example).

In 66 gear they become easy, and in 69/72/75 it's just a joke.

 

As another example: TfB SM and S&V SM now drop Arkanian (69) gear. Most LFG (full PuG) groups fall apart and can't clear the instance. Do you feel this is on par with the difficulty of the flashpoints? They are tuned for roughly the same gear...

 

You currently have a 69-page thread (The weird people you meet in Group Finder.) filled with stories of people that go to HM flashpoints with:

• Missing gear
  
• Extremely low rating gear (e.g. level 30'ish greens)
  
• Wrong main stat on gear
  
• Wrong or no stance
  
• Wrong roles (e.g. tanks in DPS gear who don't know what a taunt is)
  
• Wrong abilities for skill tree
  
• ...
  

And yet these people manage to complete these HM flashpoints and continue going about their business feeling everything is fine! This is not OK!

 

For those that mess FPs with OPS I hope BW put NM mode of all FPs that would be tunned over 69/72/75 ....

Agree, but it still doesn't solve the problem that HM flashpoints are well... not hard (in their recommended gear).