The REAL Most Powerful Sith

[xxwolfbloodxx]

Yes, Sith Magic is the purest expression of the dark side of the Force, but that doesn't change the fact that in the end it doesn't require much ability in the Force to wield and so is not a reliable indication of power.. Even the lowliest of Force-sensitives with an affinity with Sith Magic were able to wield it. Hence we should look to other spheres of ability for confirmation of his power..

I think you are off on your understanding of sith magic. Sith magic, while as much a part of the dark side as endowments like force lightning, was accessible only to those who possessed an intrinsic relationship with the dark side. -wookieepedia

 

It's an innate gift

- darth Tenebrous

 

 

 

 

Also sith sorcery, was described as the full destructive power of the dark side of the force- wookieepedia

 

Dark Lord of the sith Darth Bane believe that beings with a true affinity for Sith magic were few and far between. To him, Sith magic allowed an individual to channel the dark side with maximum effect in ways that he, even as the prophesied sith'ari was unable to do.-wookieepedia

 

So sith magic was not something that just any run of the mill guy could use. You had to be born with an affinity to it it was an innate gift and it was just as valid as other abilities like force lighting.

Also you stated that we use the areas of control sense and alter to judge power. According to wookieepedia sith magic falls under all 3 of these categories. So we should take inaccount the sith emperors power with sith magic when comparing him anyone else. So the is emperor should be moved to number 2.

[S_W_LeGenD]

^^^^

 

Good response! Yes, I have conveyed similar message to him in this thread (Post # 466; Page 47). Beni's argument is that even low-level characters can acquire Sith Magic based skills, so Sith Sorcery based talents do not positively reflect upon the power and capabilities of Sith Emperor (Tenebrae). OP have failed to realize that that "application of illusions" (commonly learned by practitioners of Sith Magic) is just part of the equation; Sith Sorcery on the whole is a HUGE field, offering its practitioners a chance to unlock powers that are impossible to wield otherwise. A good example is of Zannah who once summoned tentacles (with her Sith Sorcery based talents) to defeat Bane, a very powerful Force-user.

 

Maybe, mastery in the "application of illusions" is easier to obtain but Sith Emperor (Tenebrae) have demonstrated so much more with his Sith Sorcery based talents; his Nathema feat eclipses Sith Sorcery based feats of any character in the mythos, since it involved his personal power, extraordinary affinity with the dark side and concepts of Sith Magic, to be successful (no external weapon or other form of aid was used).

 

 

The Emperor is one thousand years old. In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, Nathema, to achieve immortality. The world is now a lifeless husk, devoid of the Force. Scourge comes to understand that such power is madness, and the Emperor has lost all reason. (Star Wars: The Essential Reader's Companion)

 

 

 

Meetra was no expert on dark side sorcery, but it was safe to assume Vitiate not only survived the ritual, but emerged more powerful than ever. And with the destruction of everyone on Nathema—including his research team—he alone would have known the location of Dromund Kaas.

 

The plan was both horrifying and brilliant. In addition to becoming more powerful than Meetra could imagine, Vitiate could blame the extinction of his homeworld on the Jedi, further panicking the remaining Sith worlds. Then he could have offered them a glimmer of hope, promising to lead all those who swore loyalty to him to a place where the Jedi would never find them. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

 

Heck, Tenebrae became even more capable in the field of Sith Sorcery after his first major transformation.

 

Sith Emperor (Tenebrae) also continuously manipulated the environment of Dromund Kaas with his Sith Sorcery based talents or power in the dark side or combination of both. He siphoned energies from countless beings to fuel his power so he may invested a part of these energies to perform this feat continuously.

 

In-fact, I have advised him to put Sidious and Tenebrae in a single TIER and the rest in the list below this TIER. Thus far, some have failed to comprehend the capabilities of Tenebrae properly.

Edited July 31, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Selenial]

Am I the only one who realizes his posts are due to an incredible Fanboy love of the game?

 

It just so happens that he's arguing for Teberae and Marr, two of the most prominent "leaders" of the Imperial faction in the game? Let me guess LeGenD... You're a predominantly empire player? Amiright?

 

Beni, I know you hate ignorance as much as I, but please, this is a lost cause... Save your energy for the Kaggath/Battlezone

[UncleOst]

Am I the only one who realizes his posts are due to an incredible Fanboy love of the game?

 

It just so happens that he's arguing for Teberae and Marr, two of the most prominent "leaders" of the Imperial faction in the game? Let me guess LeGenD... You're a predominantly empire player? Amiright?

 

Beni, I know you hate ignorance as much as I, but please, this is a lost cause... Save your energy for the Kaggath/Battlezone

 

The purple tard retreats, and calls for support from the other colortards lol.

 

Yet another example of fail-sith behavior. Tsk-Tsk.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Am I the only one who realizes his posts are due to an incredible Fanboy love of the game?

 

It just so happens that he's arguing for Teberae and Marr, two of the most prominent "leaders" of the Imperial faction in the game? Let me guess LeGenD... You're a predominantly empire player? Amiright?

 

Beni, I know you hate ignorance as much as I, but please, this is a lost cause... Save your energy for the Kaggath/Battlezone

You have the right to argue in favor of any character you wish to; others have the same right.

 

Revan is my favorite character from the TOR era; Sidious is my favorite character from the movies. And yet, I am neutral about them; I am neutral about all characters actually.

 

All of us are "fans," so no need to distinguish among us.

[Aurbere]

The purple tard retreats, and calls for support from the other colortards lol.

 

Yet another example of fail-sith behavior. Tsk-Tsk.

 

Oh. He's making fun of our colored text. I did not get that.

 

But then, I don't see the reasoning behind calling people 'tards.'

 

Surely you can do better.

[Selenial]

The purple tard retreats, and calls for support from the other colortards lol.

 

Yet another example of fail-sith behavior. Tsk-Tsk.

 

Quick question, If you'll allow it....

Have you ever posted anything constructive on this forum?

[UncleOst]

Oh. He's making fun of our colored text. I did not get that.

 

But then, I don't see the reasoning behind calling people 'tards.'

 

Surely you can do better.

 

I'll call you color-lords, of the rainbow squad. If it makes you feel better.

 

I truly have enjoyed this thread, I was able to meet new friends.

[TalonVII]

I'll call you color-lords, of the rainbow squad. If it makes you feel better.

 

I truly have enjoyed this thread, I was able to meet new friends.

 

To quote outside of SW: "there is no curse in elvish, entish or in the tongues of men for this travesty.

[UncleOst]

Quick question, If you'll allow it....

Have you ever posted anything constructive on this forum?

 

Do a search on my stats. Please check all threads/posts ever made since launch.

 

But to retort to you in kind, constructive conversations have no template.

[Selenial]

Do a search on my stats. Please check all threads/posts ever made since launch.

 

But to retort to you in kind, constructive conversations have no template.

 

No no no, I said This Forum.

Not These Forums.

 

I'm talking specifically of the Star Wars Discussion forum.

[UncleOst]

To quote outside of SW: "there is no curse in elvish, entish or in the tongues of men for this travesty.

 

Intriguing... Usually men of lesser character rely on vernacular curse to assist with their self-expression. Perhaps the color-elves from your quote should go back to the tavern, to hone their rhetorical prowess.

[TalonVII]

Intriguing... Usually men of lesser character rely on vernacular curse to assist with their self-expression. Perhaps the color-elves from your quote should go back to the tavern, to hone their rhetorical prowess.

 

some people just can't take a joke. what a world this is..

[UncleOst]

No no no, I said This Forum.

Not These Forums.

 

I'm talking specifically of the Star Wars Discussion forum.

 

Hehe, ok you're either lazy, or unprepared. I did state finally that I appreciated Vader above Kun, and also that Bane was granted a spot.

[UncleOst]

some people just can't take a joke. what a world this is..

 

Ooh no my friend, my response was in defence to thee quote..not to you. If an attempt at humor is you're "riposte", then I'll concede your defeat. Forgive my misunderstanding.

[Aurbere]

I'll call you color-lords, of the rainbow squad. If it makes you feel better.

 

It doesn't make me feel better. You're simply veiling an insult, but we already know what you mean.

[Selenial]

Hehe, ok you're either lazy, or unprepared. I did state finally that I appreciated Vader above Kun, and also that Bane was granted a spot.

 

Not really Constructive, it's appreciative.

[Ka-tee]

He did set off a lightning storm in the library of the acedemy when the teachings were being transferred to him by Githany. Threw the whole library into a mess.

 

...pretty sure he didn't. He wielded a minor version of the thought bomb by combining the powers of his fellow dark lords, but not maelstrom.

[Aurbere]

Legend, I'm still waiting on you to provide some better evidence for Marr's so-called superiority to Vader. So far all you have done is throw sourcebook quotes and expect me to instantly agree.

 

Gotta have more than that. You have failed to prove that Marr is better than Vader. Until you can, your argument is nothing more than pointless posturing.

[marcelo_sdk]

UncleOst, why don't you go elsewhere? This forum is for debates, not for throwing childish insults like an idiot. If you want so much to insult everyone, do that on their faces, not hiding behind a screen. Edited July 31, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Beniboybling]

Control: "Control is internal. It is the Jedi's ability to recognize the Force in himself and to use it to his benefit."

 

1. Force concealment: the concealment of the Emperor's children was sustained not by the Emperor, but by the First Son, and while the Emperor likely had a hand in 'programming' the First Son to do this is would have been sustained by the First Sons power. This becomes most evident when by killing the First Son the Children are exposed and the Emperor seemingly incapable of re-concealing them of his own accord. Regardless it remains a basic display of Force concealment compared to Caedus' unprecedented talents.

 

I don't feel this is grounds for disputing Caedus' superiority in this category, so I reaffirm that he remains superior and that his abilities are indeed unprecedented. I don't think there is anything more to be said here.

 

Sense: "Sense involves the next step, in which the Jedi recognizes the force in the universe outside oneself."

 

1. Foresight: "High accuracy" is the wrong terminology, high clarity perhaps but the spontaneity of said visions point to the opposite. Only Traya is an exception to this rule, and only because she was bolstered by the incredible dark side nexus surrounding Malachor V and the Trayus Academy. The fact that Caedus could predict events with even greater accuracy without such aid only emphasizes his impressiveness.

 

Your attempts to degrade Sidious' abilities in foresight are logically flawed, because unlike the Sith Emperor he has displayed an exceptional ability in foresight, foreseeing everything other than his death - which it should be noted is incredibly dificult to predict. Only with the help of the Voss was the Sith Emperor able to predict his death. To believe that the Sith Emperor has greater or similar abilities in Foresight to Caedus is pure assumption.

 

NOTE: The vision that the JK recieved from the Voss was not the Emperor communicating with him, but simply the JK seeing a glimpse of the future through the Voss. If you played the other classes you would know that they all recieve similar visions involving vague statements from a key character to their final chapter. Also the futures the Emperor refers to are those given to him by the Voss not visions he achieved alone.

 

Also note I'm not sure when that vision concerning Nankrang took place, but we must remember that the Emperor received many visions of the future through Revan. And exploiting the mental connection he had with his apprentice cannot be classed as a vision, also noting that those with strong connections i.e. Padawan & Master, could communicate with one another across great distances. It is a given the Emperor would be able to do this.

 

Again none of the arguments you present give me reason to reassess Caedus' superiority. Even if we accept that the Sith Emperor had an above-average ability in foresight we still have no grounds for assuming that he surpassed Caedus' unprecedented ability in foresight.

 

Alter: "Alter is the third and most difficult area to master, for it involves the student's ability to modify the Force and redistribute its energies."

 

1. Telekinesis: you are grasping at some tenuous straws here. Your assumption that they brought down the Citadel through pure telekinesis is entirely unsupported. In fact it is likely not the case as a Kaggath involves the entire powerbases of a given individual. For all we know they could have armies on the ground. Or simply taken out key structures that caused the Citadel to fall, or it could just be a hyperbole. It is certainly not grounds for claiming that the Sith Emperor is superior in telekinesis. That's just a little silly.

 

2. Lightning: more arbitrary assumptions, your blatantly subjective opinion that Revan facing up to the Emperor was plot induced stupidity only implies you have an over-inflated opinion of the Sith Emperor's ability. And therefore cannot believe that Revan was capable of challenging him. Further reinforced by your tendency to overlook the fact that Revan managing to use tutanimis against the Emperor for even a short amount of time completely refutes your assumption that the Emperor could 'utterly destroy him'. If that were the case Revan would have been incapable of catching the lightning and would have been sent flying and likely reduced to a charred husk - that is the definition of being 'utterly destroyed'. It happened, its canon, deal with it. PIS is not a logical argument on this thread.

 

3. Mind Control: Failure? He succeeded in controlling their minds. That is what we are focusing on. Anyway all it is an example of is the fact that lesser Force users are capable of manipulating the minds of others. And while yes the Sith Emperor's feat was likely on a larger scale, surpassing Lord Kaan is not exactly a strong argument in his favour.

 

And concerning the purge of the Dark Council, I fail to see your point. The DC where not expecting an attack there and then, so likely had their Force barriers down - making them easy targets. Regardless we don't even know what the power was, for all we know it could have been Alter Enviroment, which not only uses minimal amounts of energy but its potency would have been amplified by the electrical storms above the planet.

 

Concerning the storms surrounding Droumund Kaas, I fail to see your point again. Those quotes you provided only reinforce my statement 1. the storms were a product of the dark side energies already surrounding the planet 2. the Emperor had only a hand it it. Like your quote says 'millennia earlier' - many many other Sith have come before the Sith Emperor and added to the dark side miasma surrounding the planet, dark side nexuses manifest in the environment, this is just an example of this. Noting that its never been explicitly confirmed that the Emperor was responsible, its speculation, not fact.

 

As for everything else you bring up, we have nothing to compare it with, so ya.

 

This is all rather subjective speculation, and unfortunately not grounds for claiming the Sith Emperor is anything other than equal in this field. As you can imagine my opinion remains unchanged in this category,

Edited February 9, 2014 by Beniboybling

[marcelo_sdk]

So, apparently this list is done, let's foccus now on the Jedi list.

[Beniboybling]

Some individuals have natural affinity with a specific talent and they gain proficiency in it in amazing fashion. As pointed out before, Sith Emperor (Tenebrae) acquired certain talents without use of formal training. This doesn't means that we should underestimate the "requirements" of proficiency in such talents themselves.

All I'm saying here is that we should not assume that because the Sith Emperor possesses unprecedented ability in the sphere of Sith Magic that on that alone he is therefore incredibly powerful - because of its reliance on understanding arguably over knowledge other spheres of Force ability take precedence.

I am not sure if Tenebrae possessed the capability to handle 8000 Sith Lords in "conventional manner" but his performance against the first rebellious Dark Council (he purged), is greatest display of power for a single individual in combat situation in the mythos. Keep in mind that Darth Lokess also arranged an army to counter any kind of threat to her plan but that army didn't brought down Tenebrae after her fall.

 

Tenebrae may not choose to fight such level of opposition (8000 Sith Lords) in convention manner regardless (this might be too much for any Force-user); he would rather do homework on the basis of his Sith Sorcery based talents. He does have history to succeed in situations which would be unthinkable for others in his shoes. Think of Nihilus versus Kataar inhabitants like scenario.

I understand what you are saying here. The Sith Emperor may possess such as vast well of dark side energy, but unable to use it is instantaneous bursts. But the same can be said of Caedus, again referencing by above argument, if Caedus had an affinity with Sith Magic and if he had long time to study it he might well have been able to perform feats on the scale of the Sith Emperor.

 

But because he does not - and we cannot fault him for not - we cannot make a direct comparison.

[Beniboybling]

It is not wise to compare Sidious and Tenebrae with Luke in power factor directly; Luke is mortal and natural while the former two are not. How many times I have to point this difference out to you?

Many, because I reject your arbitrary argument as nonsensical - don't be so arrogant to assume your word is law.

Beni's analysis is insignificant.

Sorry what? Could you be any more arrogant?

 

This is the attitude I'm talking about here, which you have failed to change.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Beniboybling

[xxwolfbloodxx]

Just to note, the minds of the Sith Lords that Vitiate dominated were willing to let their minds be done. So it kinda takes away from that feat a little because the Sith Lords let themselves be dominated, rather then resist. A willing mind would be far more easier to control then an unwilling.

 

Where is the source on this? I don't remember anywhere that said they where willing to let their minds be dominated.