Subscriber Appreciation Details?

[Andryah]

Ah come on. You know I didn't "tease myself into a frenzy of projection".

 

They hyped this subscriber appreciation up and then they handed us basically a $4 gift card to the cartel market, the antithesis of everything many / most subscribers want in this game. How is it so hard for you to understand that such a move doesn't make very many subscribers feel even a little bit appreciated?

 

They did not really hype it up IMO.

 

They teased you. You took the hook.

 

What you did with the tease.. that's on you.

 

I love how it ALWAYS the developers fault and the player base is never wrong or has reacted out of measure with what was communicated.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[DarthTHC]

They did not really hype it up IMO.

 

They teased you. You took the hook.

 

What you did with the tease.. that's on you.

 

Address the second question.

 

How is it so hard for you to understand that a $4 gift card to the Cartel Market, the antithesis of everything many or most subscribers want form the game, doesn't make many subscribers feel even a little appreciated? That was the goal BWEA stated, after all, wasn't it? To be a subscriber appreciation gift?

[Andryah]

Address the second question.

 

How is it so hard for you to understand that a $4 gift card to the Cartel Market, the antithesis of everything many or most subscribers want form the game, doesn't make many subscribers feel even a little appreciated? That was the goal BWEA stated, after all, wasn't it? To be a subscriber appreciation gift?

 

Well, that's easy.

 

I've been playing MMOs for years. I have learned from my years of experience. When an MMO producer teases about any form of appreciation gift... I simply wait and see. It's a freebie. I did not pay anything for it... so whatever it is .. it's more then I had before. Almost always... it's something with a value of $0-$5 in my experience. Historically, it's usually some silly gift box or a pet (that are quickly stored or destroyed after a few days of giggles) with MMOs... so that's about what I expect. 500cc... from my perspective, was a pleasant surprise. I appreciate that they gave me some coins and let me choose how to convert their appreciation gift into some thing I actually would like in game. I've got plenty of coins still.. but hey.. 500 more is goodness.. as I am actually using them finally to unlock Collections.

 

I get that not everyone sees it the way I do. Which is fine. What did you expect? A free SUV delivered to your front door?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[Cordelia]

I get that not everyone sees it the way I do. Which is fine. What did you expect? A free SUV delivered to your front door?

 

Wait....you mean you didn't get that ?

[SithKoriandr]

I get that not everyone sees it the way I do. Which is fine. What did you expect? A free SUV delivered to your front door?

 

Actually, they may have seen it more your way if it was more than 500 CC.

 

For instance, 2000 CC would of meant "Hey! Pick an item on the CM and buy it! Don't want that one expensive item? Then grab a few smaller ones!"

 

I get that, hey, it's an additional 500 CC. But as a Subscriber Appreciation Dealie, as advertised, it just felt a little short. Especially if you consider, "Oh hey! 2000 CC for you, since you're buying code...for a game!"

 

And it still would've had people who purchase CC purchasing CC

[TheNahash]

Actually, they may have seen it more your way if it was more than 500 CC.

 

For instance, 2000 CC would of meant "Hey! Pick an item on the CM and buy it! Don't want that one expensive item? Then grab a few smaller ones!"

 

I get that, hey, it's an additional 500 CC. But as a Subscriber Appreciation Dealie, as advertised, it just felt a little short. Especially if you consider, "Oh hey! 2000 CC for you, since you're buying code...for a game!"

 

And it still would've had people who purchase CC purchasing CC

 

I keep seeing people suggest that more CC or a "voucher" for 1 free item would've been better, but I don't get it.

Isn't the main complaint that they are "lazy" for giving us CC in the first place and that some people just don't want to have anything to do with the Cartel Market?

 

Plus, how would that have been "special"? You would still end up buying something that everyone has access to.

[Andryah]

For instance, 2000 CC would of meant "Hey! Pick an item on the CM and buy it! Don't want that one expensive item? Then grab a few smaller ones!"

 

Personally, I only spend my CCs on Collections unlocks. I purchase all my other CM items directly from the GTN. Spending 2000cc on anything in the CM is bad consumer practice IMO.

 

So that 500cc... that will give me good unlock value in the Collections system.

 

Anyway.. you say 2000 would make you feel appreciated, and then the next person will tell us.. NOOOoooo... it has to be 3000... etc. etc. etc. May point? Bioware's decision, not ours... and as a community..... consensus among us is impossible IMO.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[SithKoriandr]

Personally, I only spend my CCs on Collections unlocks. I purchase all my other CM items directly from the GTN.

 

So that 500cc... that will give me good unlock value in the Collections system.

 

Anyway.. you say 2000 would make you feel appreciated, and then the next person will tell us.. NOOOoooo... it has to be 3000... etc. etc. etc. May point? Bioware's decision, not ours... and as a community..... consensus among us is impossible IMO.

 

I didnt say 2000 would make me feel appreciated. I said it would probably make most feel appreciated.

 

Want me to feel appreciated? All they had to do was go "Here, have a Black/Black Dye Module" and I would've been the happiest TOR player around.

[Andryah]

I keep seeing people suggest that more CC or a "voucher" for 1 free item would've been better, but I don't get it.

Isn't the main complaint that they are "lazy" for giving us CC in the first place and that some people just don't want to have anything to do with the Cartel Market?

 

Well.. there are a range of complaints.. and no consensus among the complainers IMO.. other then "slap in the face" or "feeling unappreciated". Apparently 2000cc can make a slap disappear and the unappreciated instantly grateful and feeling like royalty.

 

TL;DR everyone has a price.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[CrazyMcGee]

Want me to feel appreciated? All they had to do was go "Here, have a Black/Black Dye Module" and I would've been the happiest TOR player around.

 

That actually would have been epic. One Bind to Legacy Black/Black dye - so you can't sell it, it's one time use, etc.

 

BW, there's an awesome idea for next time!

[SithKoriandr]

I keep seeing people suggest that more CC or a "voucher" for 1 free item would've been better, but I don't get it.

Isn't the main complaint that they are "lazy" for giving us CC in the first place and that some people just don't want to have anything to do with the Cartel Market?

 

Plus, how would that have been "special"? You would still end up buying something that everyone has access to.

 

I think the complaint is "lazy for giving CC" because it was...

 

1) 500 CC. Face it. 500 CC doesn't really purchase much when some of the items are 320 (Boost Pack of most likely getting nothiness) or nice set of armor...but...1600 CC

 

2) They then go and say "Oh hey! Buy our new title! It only costs 10 CC!" Yeah...seriously...it's a title.

 

Now, I don't even care for the title. But seriously...it's a title. "Pay to celebrate the 10th Anniversary of one of our past games!" "How are you celebrating it?" "With a new title!" "And you..want us to...pay for it?" "Oh don't worry! It's only 10 CC!"

 

And was everyone going to be happy? No. But, it could be we just have a vocal minority not feeling appreciated.

 

I didnt hate the 500 CC, I do wish it was something more useful/fun (but that's subjective anyways).

 

I do think the paying for the title is a joke though I get it. 10th anniversary, pay 10 CC, but it's still paying 10 CC

[Andryah]

That actually would have been epic. One Bind to Legacy Black/Black dye - so you can't sell it, it's one time use, etc.

 

BW, there's an awesome idea for next time!

 

[Note: I'm not picking at you on this CrazyMcGee .... but this needs to be said.. because forum members really don't think this stuff through very well sometimes. ]

 

Heh.. yeah..right.... followed by endless customer service tickets with people "claiming" they "accidentially" applied it to the wrong armor.. followed immediately by "can I haz another pweeeze?" "It wuz freee... so shurely youz can let me haz another!!"

 

Followed next by waves of rage in the forum because people who own an actual CM Black/Black cannot sell it on the GTN for more then 2500 credits now because the market has been flooded with half a million of them for free.

 

Yeah.. We need something that triggers a host of self-centered CS tickets clogging up the CS cycles and blocking folks with real CS needs. /NOT.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I do think the paying for the title is a joke though I get it. 10th anniversary, pay 10 CC, but it's still paying 10 CC

 

The really funny part about it is....wait for it...

 

----------> it's COMPLETELY player optional.

 

No Bioware employees will come to your home and force you to actually spend 10cc on something you do not have any interest in...... but people will snear and complain in the forum about it anyway. Seriously.. forum members are punking themselves left and right about this KOTOR anniversary title. It's the largest self-inflicted punking in a long long time on the forums here IMO.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Andryah

[TheNahash]

I think the complaint is "lazy for giving CC" because it was...

 

1) 500 CC. Face it. 500 CC doesn't really purchase much when some of the items are 320 (Boost Pack of most likely getting nothiness) or nice set of armor...but...1600 CC

 

2) They then go and say "Oh hey! Buy our new title! It only costs 10 CC!" Yeah...seriously...it's a title.

 

Honestly, I don't think that's the reason. No amount of CC would've been enough,tbh. As for the title, people were complaining even before we learned about it or its cost, so I don't think it has anything to do with that.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't have invested some time and given us something "special" but the real question is what would that have been?

 

Because if you read through a thread with suggestions, you will see that each person has a different idea when it comes to their personal satisfaction and what they consider "appreciative" enough. This way they gave us the choice to buy something from the CM, unlock a perk or a set from the Collections.

 

And frankly, do we really need another "Party Jawa" kind of gift? I think I used it once and it's been in my cargo hold ever since. There is even an achievement attached to it but I can't unlock it because no one seems to be using it anymore.

Edited July 13, 2013 by TheNahash

[SithKoriandr]

The really funny part about it is....wait for it...

 

----------> it's COMPLETELY player optional.

 

No Bioware employees will come to your home and force you to actually spend 10cc on something you do not have any interest in...... but people will snear and complain in the forum about it anyway. Seriously.. forum members are punking themselves left and right about this KOTOR anniversary title. It's the largest self-inflicted punking in a long long time on the forums here IMO.

 

Well duh it's optional.

 

But it's also something optional being advertised as "Celebrate 10th Anniversary with us by spending more money!"

 

If it was just the F2Pers I'd say "Well then sub" but something like this, no matter how cheap, making the subs pay? Meh.

 

I don't even have a desire for this title, and I think the way they're going about it is lame Seriously. I'm happy with the titles I get in game. Darth, Master, Outlaw, Hired Gun, Captain, Cipher/Double Agent...since I obtained these titles, I had no desire for any other title for my characters

[SithKoriandr]

Honestly, I don't think that's the reason. No amount of CC would've been enough,tbh. As for the title, people were complaining even before we learned about it or its cost, so I don't think it has anything to do with that.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't have invested some time and given us something "special" but the real question is what would that have been?

 

Because if you read through a thread with suggestions, you will see that each person has a different idea when it comes to their personal satisfaction and what they consider "appreciative" enough. This way they gave us the choice to buy something from the CM, unlock a perk or a set from the Collections.

 

And frankly, do we really need another "Party Jawa" kind of gift? I think I used it once and it's been in my cargo hold ever since. There is even an achievement attached to it but I can't unlock it because no one seems to be using it anymore.

 

Would any one thing have been universally accepted? Maybe a free months sub. But no, not likely anything they'd actually be willing to give out that isn't a free months sub.

 

But I do think they could've done something more universally appealing.

[TheNahash]

Would any one thing have been universally accepted? Maybe a free months sub. But no, not likely anything they'd actually be willing to give out that isn't a free months sub.

 

But I do think they could've done something more universally appealing.

 

Actually, no, not even a free month would've been enough.

It has been done before and people still felt they deserved more.

[SithKoriandr]

Actually, no, not even a free month would've been enough.

It has been done before and people still felt they deserved more.

 

Really? Well then, that's just sad!

[Tsillah]

The really funny part about it is....wait for it...

 

----------> it's COMPLETELY player optional.

 

No Bioware employees will come to your home and force you to actually spend 10cc on something you do not have any interest in...... but people will snear and complain in the forum about it anyway. Seriously.. forum members are punking themselves left and right about this KOTOR anniversary title. It's the largest self-inflicted punking in a long long time on the forums here IMO.

 

This is about the weakest argument that I've seen in a while. Everything is optional in the end. It's just about how far you are willing to bend over until you say: "Now they're making fun of me."

 

If a company cannot give something small for free there's just something inherently wrong with their attitude.

 

They could've given an item instead of cartel coins as well, if they wanted to make sure to cover as many people as possible, they could've given us multiple items or a pick of three items just so there was a little something for everybody. Honestly, the point is that BW just doesn't understand what makes people appreciated. They took the easy way out by giving out cartel coins. It's just a testament that they don't understand that it's not about choosing the one thing that please the biggest group of people. They could've given out a few items to choose from that there was something for 80 or 90% of the population. Now they gave a cash option that maybe pleases 50-60%. Now these are not real stats but I hope you get the point. And really, I was happy to get the 500 cc as such, but if this is what they call sub apprecation (you know those people who already pay cash and often ask for more content rather than cartel shop items) then I think they completely misunderstand something here.

 

They have min maxed the sub at the moment, so it stands on a precipice for a lot of people. Is the sub worth it? To me it is, but barely. I watch every time they do something new to make sure my sub is still worth it. When it's like that, you want to do a little more to appreciate people who still pay a monthly sub AND often buy cartel coins as well.

 

Instead of building a solid base of happy fans, they focus on not losing too many. That means that as soon as someone else brings out a new solid MMO, a lot of people will be easily tempted to go. Customer retention has been BW's problem from the start and they need to start committing to that. An occasional grant of 500 cc (if indeed it will happen again) doesn't equate to appreciating people who pay a sub every month. It's just really not getting the point.

 

I enjoy this game but I also enjoy good customer care and with all the people they lost last year I just don't get it takes them so long still to figure out how to handle customer retention. It's good that they want to do something to appreciate players but really, be just a little more creative and offer something that gives people something to actually work towards. That's why veteran programs are a really good option for this game. And if it must be cartel coins, why not offer people extra cartel coins for subbing for 3 or 6 months, you know, incentive things and such.

 

But back to the title..10 cc is not much. I agree and it's optional. Everything in life is optional... But how can they not see that charging for everything is just taking the piss? Every other MMO I've played gives out something for free when celebrating something. Why can't they? I mean that's really the issue. This is supposed to be a AAA title but it doesn't come with AAA customer care and appreciation. Do they think like a year and a half ago, that everything will magically go well now? That would be making the same mistake again and we know how well that went last year...

[DarthVengeant]

What it's called is a lack of manners and couresy.

 

Also, curious to hear you repeatedly claiming that you 'quit', seeing as you're still posting on the forums (requires a subscription). I wonder how much of the rest of your posts have been lies and trolling as well?

 

So, now people should lie and call it "manners and courtesy". Sounds like a politician to me. I don't lie sir...ever. No matter the circumstance or person. Ever. Try it sometime.

 

And, now I am LYING and TROLLING. You will come up with ANYTHING to try to demean me and discount anything and everything I say. It is typical of people who can't see past their own narrow vision. I see it all the time on these forums and even in gen chat. The fact is, I unsubbed 2 day's ago now. It is not my fault Bioware still let's me post. Ohh, but wait...could that be another bug or glitch coming from the almighty flawless everything is gold Bioware? Nothing new there....and half of why I quit. Ohh, and let's not forget...I am "ungrateful" somehow in that as well.

 

And, btw...yes half the reason this "Subscriber Appreciation" thing didn't go over well with alot of us is because it is lazy.

Edited July 13, 2013 by DarthVengeant

[LordArtemis]

I have pointed out that this may be a result of our direct feedback after the appearance system was added to the game....at the time many complained about the fact that it required CCs, and that subs should have a free session.

 

I recommended at the time they should probably do that for good karma, and if in fact they were listening to our feedback from that period that means we are ones that suggested it.

 

This is only speculation of course.

[Lyshar]

I have pointed out that this may be a result of our direct feedback after the appearance system was added to the game....at the time many complained about the fact that it required CCs, and that subs should have a free session.

 

I recommended at the time they should probably do that for good karma, and if in fact they were listening to our feedback from that period that means we are ones that suggested it.

 

This is only speculation of course.

 

Subscribers have often mentioned wanting things NOT cartel related or at least included with subscription, or a reasonable credit alternative for subscribers at the least, had they listened they would have done something different for sure.

 

Cartel coins are more of an apology than a gift, in which case they should just have given them instead of waiting for months telling us they'd show appreciation several times along the lines and being so secretive as if it's something great. I think they are responsible for over-hyping it more than the players getting expectations too high. Personally I was expecting nothing and hoping for something nice.

 

In this case it feels more like a bribe though "Take some coins and leave us be!". Especially cause they choose to not comment and seemingly ignore this thread after he hijacked it for his crappy KotOR celebration advertisement, but that's a different topic. Though I hope they are just too ashamed to reply and actually try to learn from it, he're to hoping... I doubt it!

 

I am hoping for the second part right now to be the "Return of the Grand Acquisition Race" that was said to come at some point, sorry don't have a link but it was pretty recent. That would mean it'd be subscriber exclusive, or more likely with a pass for free players then (cause they'd want to try to still milk it out of someone)... I don't expect that to be the case though, but pretty much the best case scenario... though if they do that then I expect they'll put event passes into the cartel market for everyone from then on, and that I would HATE!

[branmakmuffin]

The fact is, I unsubbed 2 day's ago now. It is not my fault Bioware still let's me post.

I believe former subscribers can post. Never tested it personally, though.

 

This is about the weakest argument that I've seen in a while. Everything is optional in the end. It's just about how far you are willing to bend over until you say: "Now they're making fun of me."

Yes, you get it. It's a game. Everything is optional. If you feel made fun of, that's on you. I guarantee you BWEA is not intentionally trying to make fun of you.

 

If a company cannot give something small for free there's just something inherently wrong with their attitude.

They just gave us something "medium" for free: 500 CC. You can't save 10 of those 500 for the title?

 

They could've given an item instead of cartel coins as well, if they wanted to make sure to cover as many people as possible, they could've given us multiple items or a pick of three items just so there was a little something for everybody.

Like what? Name me some things that everyone would be happy with? Some other title? No thanks. A speeder? Hardly. A pet? Pass. Treek? I have 6 companions with the option for a 7th already. A dye pack? Who cares? So tell me, what should they have given people instead of 500 CC that would not have people in here complaining just as hard or harder?

 

Honestly, the point is that BW just doesn't understand what makes people appreciated.

"Honestly," double-speak for "What follows is a load of BS."

Edited July 13, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[curtkram]

The only way Bioware can address this social malady in the player base is to not tell them squat in advance.. but then we have temper tantrums in the forum that they are not communicating. Some things are just inevitable I guess.. and QQ in an MMO forum at the big bad developers is inevitable regardless what the developer does/does_not do.

 

i feel this should be addressed because it's already been mentioned many times, but you've been too focused on building a case to blame subscribers for bioware's decisions.

 

not telling us stuff is not the only recourse bioware has. this should be obvious, but open and honest communication would be much better. granted, for the cartel coins, that might have been better if it was a surprise. building up the 'appreciation' gift to only get a coupon, or something like ralphy's "be sure to drink your ovaltine," wasn't helpful. generally speaking though, they should tell us what to expect and do their best to stick to deadlines and expectations they set.

 

now when you say "the only way bioware can address the social malady," i would like to bring up the painfully obvious. they can fix their game. it's really that easy. the social malady comes from developers making bad decisions. the game was released unfinished. they really screwed up their server populations. their first fix was to create too many servers, which predictably emptied. their second mistake was to ignore the problem. their attempt to eventually fix it with forced merges was lame and not what's best for their customers. the recent paid transfer still doesn't fix the problem they created. when they released server mergers, that was tied into the developers abandoning the subscription model and going f2p. they slowly released the content they already had fairly well developed, up to 1.5. the stuff like cathar and makeb was gated through extra fees, in addition to the cost of subscriptions. the decision to stop or slow development of actual game content, in favor of cartel market 'fluff' and cash grabs, was a bad decision. giving us cartel coins so we can enjoy cartel market crap does not address the problem they created with their bad decisions.

 

going forward, if the next update really has game content players can actually play without extra charges, that is how you address your 'social malady.' moving forward with their planned october patch and into 2014, if what the game does is release regular patches with game content instead of just cartel market crap and cash grabs, things should get better. the problem is, judging by their recent decisions with the cathar and customization, server transfers, this 'appreciation' of cartel coins, suggests their focus is going to continue to be the cartel market and cash grabs, and they are going to continue to make bad decisions.

 

tl;dr, insttead of the developers following andryah's advice of less communication and continuing to ignore their problems, i would propose they solve the problems they've created by fixing their game.

[idnewton]

So, now people should lie and call it "manners and courtesy". Sounds like a politician to me. I don't lie sir...ever. No matter the circumstance or person. Ever. Try it sometime.

 

And, now I am LYING and TROLLING. You will come up with ANYTHING to try to demean me and discount anything and everything I say. It is typical of people who can't see past their own narrow vision. I see it all the time on these forums and even in gen chat. The fact is, I unsubbed 2 day's ago now. It is not my fault Bioware still let's me post. Ohh, but wait...could that be another bug or glitch coming from the almighty flawless everything is gold Bioware? Nothing new there....and half of why I quit. Ohh, and let's not forget...I am "ungrateful" somehow in that as well.

 

And, btw...yes half the reason this "Subscriber Appreciation" thing didn't go over well with alot of us is because it is lazy.

 

Ignored is what you are. I could spend the time explaining how wrong you are, but... you aren't worth it.