Subscriber Appreciation Details?

[thefused]

Exactly, you can't comprehend the fact people have different opinions than you, so you resort to calling them "entitled".

 

Oh I comprehend people think differently. The psychology that drives the irrationality is what's baffling. This also doesn't incite me to resort to anything. Entitlement is entitlement. If you or anyone else is offended by the truth, there's not much that can be done for you.

[branmakmuffin]

I don't sell any of it and I make bank. I think that's the whole point - "you can't make money unless you sell end game stuff". Yes, yes you can. Well, maybe you can't, but I can.

Too many people think that unless something can sell for 100,000s or millions, then it's not worth selling.

 

IAnyway, I could explain this all again, but it's apparently wasted time. I'm only on here long enough to make sure the Devs understand where some of the Subscription people are coming from. But thank god they have people that will toss money at them and be happy with anything that comes out the door. However, your 15 bucks probably won't keep BW afloat for very long.

And if that's true, so what? Eventually, the game will shut down.

Edited July 11, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Icebergy]

From Dulfy's transcript of the 2.2. Q&A:

 

 

 

Wife calls me at work. Tells me I'm super important to her and she wants to make me feel valued and will have something for me when I get home.

 

 

....

 

 

 

Day passes eternally slowly.....

 

 

 

....

 

 

When I get home I find her waiting for me... in the garage wearing grungy overalls. She hands me a $100 gift card to Lowe's and tells me the trim needs to be painted.

 

Apparently its hard to understand that marketing and inter-spousal communication are not the same thing.

 

So basically what you are saying is that your whole temper tantrum would have been avoided if Bioware had just dropped the word "super" from that announcement?

[AlienEyeTX]

From Dulfy's transcript of the 2.2. Q&A:

 

 

 

Wife calls me at work. Tells me I'm super important to her and she wants to make me feel valued and will have something for me when I get home.

 

 

....

 

 

 

Day passes eternally slowly.....

 

 

 

....

 

 

When I get home I find her waiting for me... in the garage wearing grungy overalls. She hands me a $100 gift card to Lowe's and tells me the trim needs to be painted.

 

Judging from that transcript, I see nothing that would give me ANY indication of what they might do. Again, people got all excited and started making up grandiose ideas in their own minds.

 

I'm going to let you in on a little secret... if a company is giving a reward or gift to its customers, the value of the gift will NOT exceed the value of the service or product sold. In fact, it will cost the company next to nothing, relative to their income. Why? So they can still pay for all their fancy leases and equipment, pay their employees, and continue working on bringing out additional products or services.

 

If you expected more, that is your own darn fault.

[DarthTHC]

Apparently its hard to understand that marketing and inter-spousal communication are not the same thing.

 

So basically what you are saying is that your whole temper tantrum would have been avoided if Bioware had just dropped the word "super" from that announcement?

 

What temper tantrum? I've only said I'm not impressed and I find BWEA's "gift" laughable.

 

If the plan the whole time was to give us the cartel coins - a "gift" which requires zero thought and only slightly more effort, the proper communication would have been along the lines of a "small token of appreciation".

 

They've hyped the end of July "gift" to be bigger and better than the early in July "gift". I'm interested (in a watching a train wreck sort of way) to see if that's something they put thought into or it's 600-750 Cartel Coins.

[branmakmuffin]

If the plan the whole time was to give us the cartel coins - a "gift" which requires zero thought and only slightly more effort, the proper communication would have been along the lines of a "small token of appreciation".

DarthTHC is not the arbiter of "appropriateness of words used to describe subscriber awards."

 

You hyped it in your mind. That's an issue for you and your mind to work on.

[Blackavaar]

I don't sell any of it and I make bank. I think that's the whole point - "you can't make money unless you sell end game stuff".

 

Yes, yes you can.

 

Well, maybe you can't, but I can.

 

Okay then. What exactly are you selling that is not end game stuff that makes you more than 5-8k per sale?

Really, tell me. I'm very interested to know.

 

[DarthTHC]

Judging from that transcript, I see nothing that would give me ANY indication of what they might do. Again, people got all excited and started making up grandiose ideas in their own minds.

 

I'm going to let you in on a little secret... if a company is giving a reward or gift to its customers, the value of the gift will NOT exceed the value of the service or product sold. In fact, it will cost the company next to nothing, relative to their income. Why? So they can still pay for all their fancy leases and equipment, pay their employees, and continue working on bringing out additional products or services.

 

If you expected more, that is your own darn fault.

 

I didn't expect a car or a guitar or a back massage from Sno E Bloc.

 

But based on what they said, it didn't seem out of line to expect something that might have required one iota of thought and effort, does it?

 

Think about this for a second. 500 cartel coins across half a million accounts represents somewhere around $1,000,000 of "investment" (not all of it is really lost opportunity but bear with me a moment). If they invested half or a quarter of that by putting some thought and effort into it, they could have impressed people.

 

Instead they gave out gift cards. Whee.

[Icebergy]

I didn't expect a car or a guitar or a back massage from Sno E Bloc.

 

But based on what they said, it didn't seem out of line to expect something that might have required one iota of thought and effort, does it?

 

Think about this for a second. 500 cartel coins across half a million accounts represents somewhere around $1,000,000 of "investment" (not all of it is really lost opportunity but bear with me a moment). If they invested half or a quarter of that by putting some thought and effort into it, they could have impressed people.

 

Instead they gave out gift cards. Whee.

 

What do you think they should have given instead that 100% of the player base would have liked and appreciated?

[DarthTHC]

Okay then. What exactly are you selling that is not end game stuff that makes you more than 5-8k per sale?

Really, tell me. I'm very interested to know.

 

 

Where did 5k to 8k per sale come into the picture?

 

But ok, I've been selling leveling mods, armorings, enhancements, and hilts like crazy for one. Leveling stims and healing packs for another. Don't know if each item carries 5-8k in profit because I don't necessarily track item by item. But I do know that each item is profitable and over the course of a week my profit is tens of millions of credits.

[DarthTHC]

What do you think they should have given instead that 100% of the player base would have liked and appreciated?

 

Is 100% of the player base's appreciation a requirement? If so, they seem to have missed by a wide margin.

Edited July 11, 2013 by DarthTHC

[branmakmuffin]

But based on what they said, it didn't seem out of line to expect something that might have required one iota of thought and effort, does it?

I already covered this. Move along, move along.

 

Is 100% of the player base's appreciation a requirement? If so, they seem to have missed by a wide margin.

We all know there is nothing that would have pleased everyone. A gift card is going to come the closest.

Edited July 11, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Icebergy]

Is 100% of the player base's appreciation a requirement? If so, they seem to have missed by a wide margin.

 

Fine, 75%, 50%, whatever. Pick a number and tell us what you think they should have given to satisfy that number of people.

[DarthTHC]

Fine, 75%, 50%, whatever. Pick a number and tell us what you think they should have given to satisfy that number of people.

 

We all know there is nothing that would have pleased everyone. A gift card is going to come the closest.

 

 

I'd have not said anything about any gifts and instead doubled down on effort to produce more patches like 2.3, but with some PvP goodies too, and more patches with QOL improvements. You know, the stuff we subscribers, subscribe for?

 

Think that would get a lot closer to 100% than 500 cartel coins did?

Edited July 11, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Icebergy]

I'd have not said anything about any gifts and instead doubled down on effort to produce more patches like 2.3, but with some PvP goodies too, and more patches with QOL improvements. You know, the stuff we subscribers, subscribe for?

 

Think that would get a lot closer to 100% than 500 cartel coins did?

 

Sure, I agree with you there. However it really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Blackavaar]

Where did 5k to 8k per sale come into the picture?

 

But ok, I've been selling leveling mods, armorings, enhancements, and hilts like crazy for one. Leveling stims and healing packs for another. Don't know if each item carries 5-8k in profit because I don't necessarily track item by item. But I do know that each item is profitable and over the course of a week my profit is tens of millions of credits.

 

Because 5-8k is the max I seem to be able to get for any piece of gear that is not from a Cartel Pack.

 

Really, you're selling level 10-50 mods, armorings, enhancements and hilts for a profit on the GTN? I guess you don't factor the cost of the materials into it. Collect it all yourself, do you? Sorry, but if you are buying the mats for these mods the profit margin is maybe 1k per sale at most. And who buys mid level healing packs and stims? No one. And you say you're making tens of millions? Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that. You're counting your end game stuff into it again.

 

[DarthTHC]

Sure, I agree with you there. However it really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

So now that I've answered your question with a far better answer than EA gave, you say it's not relevant to the topic? Is that the way this game is going to be played?

[Icebergy]

So now that I've answered your question with a far better answer than EA gave, you say it's not relevant to the topic? Is that the way this game is going to be played?

 

I thought we were talking about what Bioware should/should not have given as a gift. Is your answer that they should not have given a gift at all? If so, then OK. That is your opinion and I do not agree or disagree with it.

[DarthTHC]

Because 5-8k is the max I seem to be able to get for any piece of gear that is not from a Cartel Pack.

 

Really, you're selling level 10-50 mods, armorings, enhancements and hilts for a profit on the GTN? I guess you don't factor the cost of the materials into it. Collect it all yourself, do you? Sorry, but if you are buying the mats for these mods the profit margin is maybe 1k per sale at most. And who buys mid level healing packs and stims? No one. And you say you're making tens of millions? Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that. You're counting your end game stuff into it again.

 

 

I always factor in the cost of materials. I have a really cool spreadsheet that I spent way too much time on that helps me track that. And you haven't read my responses to the Id-10T crowd in that other thread on GTN pricing, have you? I love people who think gathered materials are "free"! It's almost as if they forcibly hand me credits!

 

How exactly do you define "end game stuff"? Do you include level 401+ raw materials and level 28 Augments in that? Yes, I do sell some of those and it's all factored into my weekly revenue & profit. I don't make any armorings or mods or enhancements past mid 40's though.

[LordArtemis]

Do we really need to argue back and forth over the merits of the suggestion that subscribers might enjoy a more tangible loyalty gift?

 

There are plenty of examples that exist in the market where milestone gifts are given and it seems to work well toward retention.

 

To the matter of folks asking for this sort of thing, it's also not that strange to me to have folks indicate they think coins are a bit on the cheap side. After all, if they gave us 50000 credits as the gift, don't you think some folks might be complaining about that? Would you then join them?

 

As I said before, I suspect this was, or at least was motivated by suggestions we made a while back about providing coins to subs for the appearance designer (and for renames, which had not been released yet).

 

I personally wish, if that was the case, they had presented it as that. I think that would not have gone over as badly as perhaps this did. Although I think overall most folks are happy with the free coins.

[curtkram]

i gotta say, i agree with darth thc on this one.

 

intstead of making this big show about how they appreciate us, they could just appreciate us. fix their game. add content. focus on stuff outside of the cartel market for a while, be it pvp, pve, QoL, pazaak, whatever. when they sit in the conference room and talk about the future of the game, talk about what players would like rather than talking about how to bleed a bit more money out of subscribers through the cartel market.

 

if they did that, there would be no need for an announcement about how they're going to appreciate their customers or a gift card.

 

but hey, next month. lots of great new things subscribers will appreciate. for pvpers, they really want to keep subscribing, because the stuff they have planned for october is amazing. totally worth waiting almost a full year since the last warzone was added.

[DarthTHC]

I thought we were talking about what Bioware should/should not have given as a gift. Is your answer that they should not have given a gift at all? If so, then OK. That is your opinion and I do not agree or disagree with it.

 

On the specific topic of a gift, the coin's aren't horrible but they should have communicated it differently. They should have downplayed it.

 

Something like, "We're giving you a small token of appreciation." To me, that sets the expectation of something trivial like a pet, fireworks, or cartel coins.

 

"You're super important to us and we're going to make you feel like it," sets a bigger expectation.

 

I don't even want a gift for that last part. Make me feel my subscription is super important to you by putting stuff into your game that I subscribe to do. Don't deflect from the fact that you're ultra slow about it by touting gifts and handing me gift cards. That's weak.

[Icebergy]

i gotta say, i agree with darth thc on this one.

 

intstead of making this big show about how they appreciate us, they could just appreciate us. fix their game. add content. focus on stuff outside of the cartel market for a while, be it pvp, pve, QoL, pazaak, whatever. when they sit in the conference room and talk about the future of the game, talk about what players would like rather than talking about how to bleed a bit more money out of subscribers through the cartel market.

 

if they did that, there would be no need for an announcement about how they're going to appreciate their customers or a gift card.

 

but hey, next month. lots of great new things subscribers will appreciate. for pvpers, they really want to keep subscribing, because the stuff they have planned for october is amazing. totally worth waiting almost a full year since the last warzone was added.

 

I agree with you that that stuff would be great, but I do not think that it is not in game because they do not appreciate subscribers. I think that they are doing their best. Whether or not their best is good enough is a different subject, but I believe they are trying or I wouldn't be playing.

 

They did the announcement because the childish community was throwing a tantrum that they felt under appreciated.

[ikinai]

On the specific topic of a gift, the coin's aren't horrible but they should have communicated it differently. They should have downplayed it.

 

Something like, "We're giving you a small token of appreciation." To me, that sets the expectation of something trivial like a pet, fireworks, or cartel coins.

 

"You're super important to us and we're going to make you feel like it," sets a bigger expectation.

 

I don't even want a gift for that last part. Make me feel my subscription is super important to you by putting stuff into your game that I subscribe to do. Don't deflect from the fact that you're ultra slow about it by touting gifts and handing me gift cards. That's weak.

 

I had zero expectations, only the players themselves got any expectations from a PR statement.

[curtkram]

I agree with you that that stuff would be great, but I do not think that it is not in game because they do not appreciate subscribers. I think that they are doing their best. Whether or not their best is good enough is a different subject, but I believe they are trying or I wouldn't be playing.

 

They did the announcement because the childish community was throwing a tantrum that they felt under appreciated.

 

i believe the tantrum would have been much smaller if they were focused on the game instead of on the cartel market, thus making the announcement and gift card unnecessary.

 

i believe the evidence that they have been focusing on the cartel market is pretty significant. the evidence i'm speaking of is, of course, the patch notes and the actual releases. they have been updating the cartel market with new content with some frequency. lots of people have and will continue to make excuses for bioware, but it remains that updates to the cartel market have been more frequent and more significant that updates to game content.

 

the gift of cartel coins is a gift focused on the cartel market, due to the fact cartel coins can only be spent in the cartel market.

 

i don't know whether or not this has occurred based on bioware's value of their customers. perhaps they thought everyone would truly prefer to buy stuff from the cartel market instead of play new content in the game. perhaps it was more important for them to please EA or the marketing department or something. perhaps they lost all of the staff that was capable of updating the game, and were only left with people capable of updating the cartel market. i have no idea, they're not going to tell us honestly what's going on or what their motivations are, and i don't want to make assumptions. what i do know, is that if bioware really did give a **** about us as customers, they would have listened and been doing what darth THC suggested along with the cartel market updates over the past few months.