Dual Spec. Still want it.

[Soluss]

calling people lazy when we're discussing a QoL issue is a bit silly imo. all QoL issues are just about making things easier and more intuitive.

 

that said, i think changing the midst of battle would probably be a little broken. having an AOE spec for add phases for instance, then changing to single target in the middle of a boss fight might encourage people to require having these two specs to raid with them, which could be a problem.

i don't see the problem with changing specs in the middle of warzones though (as long as it isn't actually in the middle of fighting someone) as people change specs all the time when changing sides in voidstar for instance.

 

i think, any one or a combination of the following: not usable in combat, a lockout timer (like 5-10min), and a short channel (10-15s) would probably alleviate some of the concerns that i feel are valid on the issue.

 

I don't think anyone is asking to change during combat. That would be silly and OP.

[Soluss]

Actually if you make it easier to change specs, then you do devalue the specs, the fact that it's a pain means that you consider before you change, and you consider as you build the spec. It might not devalue much, but it does devalue.

 

I still build the specs, therefor it is not devalued. I can already change them at any time. Dual spec just allows you to do it faster. Its like saying that using a speeder devalues running. Using sprint devalues walking....no it doesn't. Its just convenient and nothing more.

 

Assumption upon assumption here, I don't have a smart phone, I don't even have a cell/mobile phone, I don't want one. And just because you can't see a negative side doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

Noone, in this thread or any other, has shown a negative side. Until someone does, there isn't a negative side. We can already change specs at will now. We are just asking to make it more convenient. If I allocate points into two specs and save them, it is no different then hitting field respect and changing them....its just faster. You can save your UI and use the same UI on ever toon you make, by clicking a button. Same thing. Neither devalues anything.

[magecutter]

I don't want dual spec because I can change specs any time and anywhere on the fly without paying anything other than my unlock.

What I do want is the ability to save multiple UI settings and buttons exactly as I want them.

I don't get why people keep asking for dual spec when they should just be asking for a button saving function.

 

THIS ^^^^^

 

chuixpu has it right. sooo much easier to re-spec if I could create a few ability based UI presets.

ask for a button saving option , we already have a dual spec for each class.

Edited July 22, 2013 by magecutter

[agamemnon-]

I am a very casual player, so my opinion is just that; one of a very casual player. I've never played WoW, and my MMO experience is limited.

 

First, a quote from earlier because I find it funny and true:

 

+1

 

A quick-switch multi-spec option is like putting wheels on luggage. Wheels probably seemed like a silly and unnecessary convenience. It requires new design, adds cost and is not required for luggage to function as intended. In fact, we even put a man on the moon before the first suitcase rolled into Macy's.

 

But nowadays, doesn't it really seem like a great idea?

 

That's probably how us casual people view things; convenience items that make my (sometime limited) time more fun. Heck, most of us don't even bother with it. The same Sorc spec I have for leveling is what I use for PvP, and it will be the same for my other characters.

 

Aside from that, us casual players don't keep graphs and spreadsheets and theorycrafting essays on our computer for easy printing.. If we want to respec, currently one has to first find an ideal spec. Unless you have an iPad that will take some time as you have to be constantly minimizing your game several times (unless you want to use a phone to photo the web page of specs). Abilities aren't an issue, as they are constant in a class, but the order on your bar may change, so that has to be taken cared of as well (not to mention needing to find out and remove those abilities that are considered useless).

 

Some of the criticism should be easy to take care of. Respec anytime you want to for solo play (I refuse to begrude someone there hard earned solo time; they want to switch back and forth depending on planet/encounter, I don't care). For flashpoints and PvP; once you click that "enter" button, you are set. Afraid that trees and specs will be meaningless? Heck, we have that now. Each class has that one PvP or PvE spec that everyone uses. No way dual-specing could make the talent trees any more meaningless.

[AlexDougherty]

What is this "Dual Spec", actually ?

 

SWTOR is - apart from DDO - my second MMO, so don't expect anything from me.

 

Dual spec is the ability to switch between two builds on your character, the abilities you learn when you level up are your "Specs", and you can change them at the fleet for either a fee if you're d2p/preffered or free if you're a subsciber. (you can also unlock a field respec in legacy).

 

Personaly I feel it's not needed.

[LordArtemis]

Dual spec has zero effect on the value of specs IMO. It didn't have any effect in WoW (though people pretend it did) and it would not have an effect here.

 

It's the same argument used against free or low cost spec here....and it did not have the effect people claimed it would have. And that's that....unless some negative effect is coming down the road, it looks like those that believed reducing or eliminating the cost of changing spec would cause specs to become meaningless were dead wrong....

 

It was also the same kind of argument used against field respec, and again, no negative effect.

 

Folks want the game to remain hard in every way they possibly can and will fight tooth and nail at every convenience proposal. I get that, but just like the complaints about early speeders, connecting shuttle routes, instant travel to shuttle points, instant travel to the fleet, legacy perks like remote spec/mail/vendor.....this is a convenience feature that I expect would have zero negative effect on the game.

 

I do note that it seems the same half a dozen or so folks campaign against changes such as this. That is important to point out IMO.

 

I do believe that allowing AC change would make AC less meaningful than it is now...that is one exception I will concede and support. It is the reason I am against AC change, and I am dead set in the casual group.

 

But this....this is a QoL feature. Folks that are hardcore traditionalists do not like QoL features. Unfortunately this is not a hardcore traditionalists game any longer. It is now and will likely continue to be a casuals game.

 

Even if it ends up meaning AC change comes to the game I will begrudgingly accept it. This is a non issue IMO.

Edited July 22, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Zadtro]

I agree it's not an issue but I want it more for the convenience of pressing a button and all my talents and quickbars switch in 10 seconds instead of me spending 10mins pointing all the points in and then having to change over all my quickbars. Like i said is wanted not needed, field respec is annoying, so much so that i refuse to go tank because i CBA to constantly swapping everything around every time i go to raid

[DKNS]

I want this too

 

It would be so good for hybrid classes.

 

C'mon BW, listen to your customers once in a while please

[Aztian]

Dual Spec *is* partially functional in-game by using field respec.

 

The downsides to field-respec -- and what people are asking for as a QoL improvement:

 

• Save actionbars
  
• Save separate UI Layouts, and auto-swap
  
• Save talent allocation
  

 

I see no reason not to have this. Sure it shouldn't be priority -- but it is also a very minor QoL addition that would make many people happy.

 

 

yes plz

[illgot]

maybe in another year or two this game will catch up to 10 years ago.

[Aztian]

Dual Spec *is* partially functional in-game by using field respec.

 

The downsides to field-respec -- and what people are asking for as a QoL improvement:

 

• Save actionbars
  
• Save separate UI Layouts, and auto-swap
  
• Save talent allocation
  

 

I see no reason not to have this. Sure it shouldn't be priority -- but it is also a very minor QoL addition that would make many people happy.

 

 

yes plz

[LordArtemis]

What I would like to find out is where our current setup is saved...client side or server side.

 

It might seem obvious, but I did confirm it is kept despite a delete, so I suspect server. If it could not be made to work server side, perhaps the configuration could be moved to the client side and the server would simply grab a preset setup when requested by a dual spec system.

[NogueiraA]

We had a thread on beta about this, pvp players was saying "it'll break pvp". I agree with them if a healing class put some hot's on self and switch to dps, would be impossible to kill a heal/dps class.

 

Now in 2.4 while queued for pvp or inside a warzone you CAN'T respec, so dual spec can be implemented.

Would be awesome for pve dual spec.

[BewBo]

I have enough trouble trying to master one spec, let alone two

 

[Darth_Victus]

Agreed.

 

Would love to see this in the game sometime soon.

[Thorkir]

We had a thread on beta about this, pvp players was saying "it'll break pvp". I agree with them if a healing class put some hot's on self and switch to dps, would be impossible to kill a heal/dps class.

 

Now in 2.4 while queued for pvp or inside a warzone you CAN'T respec, so dual spec can be implemented.

Would be awesome for pve dual spec.

I would think they'd put a restriction on respeccing so you can't change in combat.

 

(Though, in reality...you'd have to be using a macro to change your talents around quickly enough for it to be of any benefit, and I'm pretty sure those are no-nos in this game.)

 

I'd love it if I could flip between my TK and healing spec for my sage with a button. Sure, I can do it in about a minute with the current system, but dual-spec would enhance that.

And saving my button layouts between Vigilance and Defense on my Guardian would be wonderful; swapping those all around gets a bit tiresome.

[ZythortheNyan]

We have dual spec, what we need is a way to save the tree and the quickbars. Thats all we want.

[Zadtro]

Yeah technically we sort of have it, we just no way to conveniently change quickly. Like where all your quickbars and points go, if there was a quick save and load setting to it that would be great, even if it was linked to the UI customisation and i mean that by we would just have to swap to a different pre-saved custom UI which would mean it would take us some times to set it up ourselves but once it's there updating it wouldn't be difficult.

[MajikMyst]

Yeah technically we sort of have it, we just no way to conveniently change quickly. Like where all your quickbars and points go, if there was a quick save and load setting to it that would be great, even if it was linked to the UI customisation and i mean that by we would just have to swap to a different pre-saved custom UI which would mean it would take us some times to set it up ourselves but once it's there updating it wouldn't be difficult.

 

If you want that then go back to WOW where they no longer have talent trees..

 

What we have is fine.. I would prefer to keep our skill trees.. We don't need to make our specs as meaningless as a pair of socks..

[Korevas]

At this point we are talking about a purely convenience feature, so I really can't fathom how people can be so vocally against it. Right now, I can queue up for anything with 2-3 clicks, which is fine, but then I have to go on and click through my 14 equipment slots, click through my 46 ability points, drag my hotbared abilities around or in some cases and go through menus to reassign my keybinds even.

 

In my oppinion, when you can build a convenience button that saves the user from doing a completely redundant sequence of >50 clicks and going through unneccessary submenus, yes, building a convenience feature is completely justified.

[MajikMyst]

At this point we are talking about a purely convenience feature, so I really can't fathom how people can be so vocally against it. .

 

Perhaps we are vocally against it because of what it did to other games?? You do realize that gaming didn't begin and won't end with SWTOR??

 

Did it occur to you that some ideas are just bad ideas and shouldn't be implemented..

 

Changing your specs is just a convenience, but was never meant to diminish the meaning of our specs.. People got spoiled in WOW and changed specs more than most people change their socks... Sometimes changing specs in between bosses.. It essentially made having a spec all but meaningless.. There simply wasn't a point to it.

 

Now, WOW doesn't even have talent trees.. Not to mention no true specs.. I don't want dual spec'ing here because, well first of all nobody needs it.. Second of all.. I would like to keep our talent trees and I would prefer that this game not be ruined by those that are always looking for more convenience..

 

Dual spec'ing also diminishes player skill because nobody specializes. It is a real pain to pug someone that thinks they are a healer because they changed spec and is now ready to heal an op.. We already have issues with player skill.. We don't need to do anything to make it worse..

 

If anything.. I would like to go back to the day where you had pay for it and each time it got progressively more..

 

I hope you can fathom all this now.. It really isn't that hard to understand.. You just have to look at the effects something has on the game as a whole.. Instead most people can't get passed their own wants or needs..

[Zadtro]

@ MajikMyst

 

Dude, there is no reason to be so closed minded. Just because people want it doesn't mean this will turn into WoW. I left it because of its new crappy talent system where everyone is the same bar a few different moves. Having something convenient helps players. Yes it can be seen as a bit lazy but some people don't have loads of time to spend on games so when they do get to play they obviously want to be able to get the best experience out of it, which is why having an easier/faster way to change specs and try new things will only be beneficial.

[MajikMyst]

@ MajikMyst

 

Dude, there is no reason to be so closed minded. Just because people want it doesn't mean this will turn into WoW. I left it because of its new crappy talent system where everyone is the same bar a few different moves. Having something convenient helps players. Yes it can be seen as a bit lazy but some people don't have loads of time to spend on games so when they do get to play they obviously want to be able to get the best experience out of it, which is why having an easier/faster way to change specs and try new things will only be beneficial.

 

I am not being closed minded at all.. How do you think WOW got where it is today?? Dual spec'ing for that game was released shortly after Lich King.. I watched it happen.. By the time Cata was released.. Specs were a joke and almost everyone was either a Druid or a Palidin.. At least for Horde.. Those two were by far the most popular classes.. Because those classes could perform all 3 roles.. Dual spec'ing is not a good thing for the game.. It did not have a positive impact on WOW.. Don't get me wrong.. I don't have an issue with changing specs.. I have an issue with it being easy and convenient.. Like it was in WOW..

 

I just don't want that to happen here.. As for people's time to play the game.. Sorry.. Not my problem.. If they don't have time to play it then they shouldn't play it.. Nobody else should have to pay the consequences because someone else doesn't have the time to invest in the game.. If people want to change their spec's bad enough, there is nothing wrong with at least make it somewhat difficult for them.. I mean at least it is free now.. There is nothing wrong with jumping through some hoops in hopes of keeping dual spec'ing a little less common..

 

In the end it comes down to this.. The easier it is, the more people will use it.. The more people that use it, the worse the game becomes.. Then Bioware will be in the same boat Blizzard was before the release of MOP..

Edited November 1, 2013 by MajikMyst

[recsa]

I'm still waiting on dual spec. I want it. Others want it.

 

Some people may think it's no longer needed, but that doesn't change the fact that it has been over a year since the devs said they would have it in. Then they changed their minds. Then later, nothing.

 

Many, many MMO's have dual-spec already. Why don't we? We have the respecs, we have the market, and the appearance changer. Dual Spec would help instance queues and allow players to have PvP specs AND Dungeon/Raid specs.

 

I want Dual Spec and I want it now! *holds up protest sign!*

 

+1E9999999999999999999999999

 

This is the most needed QoL improvement this game needs. I would gladly pay millions cartel coins for it *hint*

[Clarian]

I love the free repecs for subscribers, and the field respec perk. They feel like a real luxury compared to other games I've played (and this game, before it had those features).

 

But yeah, being able to save quickbar setups and skill point allotments for a couple different specs would be a nice addition.