Dual Spec. Still want it.

[Ratajack]

Agreed.

 

 

 

I would like to put one thing forward as to why this should happen - faster queues. If people can fulfill the role of both Tank/DPS, or Healer/DPS, then they can join up with more groups. If more groups can join up, then more groups are flashpointing/OPsing. It would be great!

 

People can already fill both roles, and you see how long queues are.

[Kopiusz]

People can already fill both roles, and you see how long queues are.

 

Yes: we can swap specs on the fly, but it's inconvenient to do so, so we largly don't.

[Ratajack]

Yes: we can swap specs on the fly, but it's inconvenient to do so, so we largly don't.

 

So, you're saying that many people are too lazy to take less than a minute to respec and change action bars since it isn't convenient because there is no "one button does all the work"? Why am I not surprised?

[Soluss]

So, you're saying that many people are too lazy to take less than a minute to respec and change action bars since it isn't convenient because there is no "one button does all the work"? Why am I not surprised?

 

So you are saying that it would badly effect you to have dual spec? I really still don't understand why you are so against this.

[ApostleThirst]

People can already fill both roles, and you see how long queues are.

 

They can fill both roles... but most often they don't because very few people do anything but build for a single role. Tank assassins are tanks, not DPSers. Juggernauts are usually the same. Marauders can't even choose non DPS. Sorcerers are one of the more solid choices for DPS/healing... but the majority of those specialize into one or the other (I think Lightning tree is pretty awesome right now?) Snipers are pure DPS. Commandos/Mercs are possible of doing heals/DPS effectively... but they're not as good as if they dedicated into one field or another. I'm not sure about Powertechs or Ops.

 

I think that covers everyone? But my point is clear.

[Ratajack]

They can fill both roles... but most often they don't because very few people do anything but build for a single role. Tank assassins are tanks, not DPSers. Juggernauts are usually the same. Marauders can't even choose non DPS. Sorcerers are one of the more solid choices for DPS/healing... but the majority of those specialize into one or the other (I think Lightning tree is pretty awesome right now?) Snipers are pure DPS. Commandos/Mercs are possible of doing heals/DPS effectively... but they're not as good as if they dedicated into one field or another. I'm not sure about Powertechs or Ops.

 

I think that covers everyone? But my point is clear.

 

Who said anything about trying to fill both roles simultaneously? Of course most people are going to min/max and build for one role at a time. The point is that with the legacy field respec, players can change from that min/maxed DPS spec to the min/maxed heal spec or from DPS spec to tank spec on the fly. I have never had a FP group refuse to allow me the less than one minute it takes to complete the respec process.

[Soluss]

Who said anything about trying to fill both roles simultaneously? Of course most people are going to min/max and build for one role at a time. The point is that with the legacy field respec, players can change from that min/maxed DPS spec to the min/maxed heal spec or from DPS spec to tank spec on the fly. I have never had a FP group refuse to allow me the less than one minute it takes to complete the respec process.

 

Still cant tell everyone why you are against having a dual spec option huh? You are arguing just to argue and nothing more. Go troll somewhere else.

[ApostleThirst]

Who said anything about trying to fill both roles simultaneously? Of course most people are going to min/max and build for one role at a time. The point is that with the legacy field respec, players can change from that min/maxed DPS spec to the min/maxed heal spec or from DPS spec to tank spec on the fly. I have never had a FP group refuse to allow me the less than one minute it takes to complete the respec process.

 

I did. That was the point. If people can fill both roles simultaneously, then queues go faster, because there are more options. Duh.

[LordArtemis]

Yes, I really do not understand the resistance to this suggestion. Not only does it simply allow something we can do now, just in an easier more efficient way I still fail to see any negative impact.

 

Sometimes it seems folks will simply rail against any suggestion that improves QoL in a game.

[MajikMyst]

Yes, I really do not understand the resistance to this suggestion. Not only does it simply allow something we can do now, just in an easier more efficient way I still fail to see any negative impact.

 

Sometimes it seems folks will simply rail against any suggestion that improves QoL in a game.

 

Have you played WOW LordArtemis?? That game had dual spec'ing at one time.. Dual spec'ing diminishes the value of a spec.. Why have a spec in the first place if you can just change it when ever you want on a whim..

 

WOW no longer has talent trees.. I would not like to go to the system that WOW has in SWTOR.. A dumbed down version of specs that basically means nothing.. Specs with little to no customization..

 

Dual spec'ing isn't a new issue and it is an issue that many of us have seen how it effected other games..

 

What we have is fine and people shouldn't be complaining for more.. As for that negative impact you are missing.. Try looking in WOW.. It is only the largest most popular MMO in existence..

 

The problem is as always.. People don't give a crap about the health of the game or what is good for the game.. They only care about themselves.. What is easy for them.. And people wonder why so many MMO's are screwed up.. To much easy in an MMO is a very bad thing.. The entire point of a game is to play it.. Easy prevents that.. This is not a QOL issue.. This is yet another issue of laziness.. People can change their spec.. So it takes a little effort.. At least they don't have to go to a trainer and pay some credits to do it.. At least they have the option of field respect.. People shouldn't attempted to take a mile when given an inch..

Edited July 21, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Soluss]

Have you played WOW LordArtemis?? That game had dual spec'ing at one time.. Dual spec'ing diminishes the value of a spec.. Why have a spec in the first place if you can just change it when ever you want on a whim..

 

WOW no longer has talent trees.. I would not like to go to the system that WOW has in SWTOR.. A dumbed down version of specs that basically means nothing.. Specs with little to no customization..

 

Dual spec does not diminish the value of a spec. It just makes it easier to switch between your chosen specs. Something you can already do in ToR, just not as easy.

 

Dual spec'ing isn't a new issue and it is an issue that many of us have seen how it effected other games..

 

What we have is fine and people shouldn't be complaining for more.. As for that negative impact you are missing.. Try looking in WOW.. It is only the largest most popular MMO in existence..

 

Cell phones were fine before smartphones. We now have smartphones and its better. What we have now is fine. Dual spec would be better. There is nothing wrong with asking for that option. I fail to see the negative impact.

 

The problem is as always.. People don't give a crap about the health of the game or what is good for the game.. They only care about themselves.. What is easy for them.. And people wonder why so many MMO's are screwed up.. To much easy in an MMO is a very bad thing.. The entire point of a game is to play it.. Easy prevents that.. This is not a QOL issue.. This is yet another issue of laziness.. People can change their spec.. So it takes a little effort.. At least they don't have to go to a trainer and pay some credits to do it.. At least they have the option of field respect.. People shouldn't attempted to take a mile when given an inch..

 

I agree with you to some extent. Some things are made too easy. Dual spec is not something that makes playing a game too easy. You can already respec so there is no reason why we can have saved specs, which is all dual spec really is. Im still playing the game by building my trees. Its not like I would select different points everytime I respec. I would have my point selection the same everytime unless I felt like changing something to experiment. Dual spec doesn't change any of that. Its the same gameplay either way but more convenient.

[MajikMyst]

Dual spec does not diminish the value of a spec. It just makes it easier to switch between your chosen specs. Something you can already do in ToR, just not as easy.

 

You are wrong.. There is just no getting around it.. If specs had value then people wouldn't demand to change them all the time.. What people really want is one spec that does it all.. Isn't that what dual spec'ing sort of allows a player to have?? I think it is.. I realize you want it.. But wanting it doesn't make you right..

 

I played WOW for over 5 years.. I saw dual spec'ing effect WOW for the worse.. From player quality to the value of a spec.. Nobody specialized in anything anymore..

 

Cell phones were fine before smartphones. We now have smartphones and its better. What we have now is fine. Dual spec would be better. There is nothing wrong with asking for that option. I fail to see the negative impact.

 

Cell phones?? You are equating specs to a cell phone?? Ok.. I am done laughing.. Get a clue dude.. That is beyond lame.. There is no reason to have dual spec'ing.. I know why people want it.. But it isn't good for the health of the game.. Why have a spec at all if you can change it at will??

 

I agree with you to some extent. Some things are made too easy. Dual spec is not something that makes playing a game too easy. You can already respec so there is no reason why we can have saved specs, which is all dual spec really is. Im still playing the game by building my trees. Its not like I would select different points everytime I respec. I would have my point selection the same everytime unless I felt like changing something to experiment. Dual spec doesn't change any of that. Its the same gameplay either way but more convenient.

 

See you are ignoring the real issue here.. Which all the people that want it ignore.. They just want easy mode.. They don't want to work for anything.. They just want convenient.. They want easy.. Laziness has taken over the game.. Nobody actually wants to play it.. To be honest, you shouldn't have dual spec'ing at all.. It should go back to old school where you had to go to a trainer and pay a lot of credits.. Having a spec should have value.. I remember when people rolled specific characters just for PVP, and tanks and healers were different characters.. Changing your spec was just meant to alter your current spec.. Not go from one talent tree to another..

 

What we have now is fine and is actually more than enough.. The inconvenience that we have now is justified to insure the value of our spec.. We do not need nor should we have a 1 button do it all for us.. If you don't want to play the game and all you care about is easy.. You probably shouldn't be playing an MMO..

Edited July 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Kingsbount]

No problem, folks. If you want this feature - keep dreaming.

 

But you must explain me something - who will refund my CC on all my characters, that was used to buy field respec.

And wich price it will have for the F2P'ers? Or think that this will be for free?

Becouse if it will be for free - subs will lose one of their features.

 

On the other hand, if this will have current cost of respec - F2P'ers will rage quit becouse they don't have it for free.

[PlanetLove]

They just want easy mode.. They don't want to work for anything.. They just want convenient.. They want easy.. Laziness has taken over the game.. Nobody actually wants to play it..

I fail to see how manually assigning your spec points and reorganzing your action bars is dilligent and using dual spec is lazy just because it was 1 minute faster to respec? It's a quality of life improvement not an automation of actual gameplay (combat etc.).

 

And Kingsbount you don't want dual spec included just because you paid CC for field respec? Things get cheaper / easier to get etc. all the time in MMOs...get used to it.

Edit: and field respec is an additional functionality to dual spec as well... you can change all your points at will (out of combat), not just change between 2 set specs.

 

I think Dual spec and a wardrobe function to change gear would bring more people to tanking and healing and that's a good thing, because they are too rare.

Edited July 22, 2013 by PlanetLove

[Ratajack]

I fail to see how manually assigning your spec points and reorganzing your action bars is dilligent and using dual spec is lazy just because it was 1 minute faster to respec? It's a quality of life improvement not an automation of actual gameplay (combat etc.).

 

 

If it is not laziness that causes this clamoring for dual spec and dual spec will only save one minute then we don't really need it, do we? We already have the ability to have infinite specs and it only takes a minute to switch between them.

[PlanetLove]

To me manually respeccing vs dual spec is like manually dialing a (memorized) phone number vs. using a saved number. It's a short time saved but still extremely useful and I can't really understand why anybody would think the latter is bad and lazy ....*shrug*

 

Oh well, not a big deal as I solo well enough in tank / heal spec - yay for dps companions with maxed presence buff

[oaceen]

calling people lazy when we're discussing a QoL issue is a bit silly imo. all QoL issues are just about making things easier and more intuitive.

 

that said, i think changing the midst of battle would probably be a little broken. having an AOE spec for add phases for instance, then changing to single target in the middle of a boss fight might encourage people to require having these two specs to raid with them, which could be a problem.

i don't see the problem with changing specs in the middle of warzones though (as long as it isn't actually in the middle of fighting someone) as people change specs all the time when changing sides in voidstar for instance.

 

i think, any one or a combination of the following: not usable in combat, a lockout timer (like 5-10min), and a short channel (10-15s) would probably alleviate some of the concerns that i feel are valid on the issue.

[AlexDougherty]

Dual spec does not diminish the value of a spec. It just makes it easier to switch between your chosen specs. Something you can already do in ToR, just not as easy.

Actually if you make it easier to change specs, then you do devalue the specs, the fact that it's a pain means that you consider before you change, and you consider as you build the spec. It might not devalue much, but it does devalue.

 

Cell phones were fine before smartphones. We now have smartphones and its better. What we have now is fine. Dual spec would be better. There is nothing wrong with asking for that option. I fail to see the negative impact.

 

Assumption upon assumption here, I don't have a smart phone, I don't even have a cell/mobile phone, I don't want one. And just because you can't see a negative side doesn't mean there isn't one.

[Never_Hesitate]

They have Field respec. If they just took that, and added a gear manager and tree saver they'd be done with it. We just want something that saves the gear and the tree settings when we use the field respec. They just need to copy the Dual Spec from WoW and call it a day

 

I guess they would be able to **** it up so bad, that both gears/speccs would be taken or none of them

 

Now on a more serious note:

I would really like to see a dual specc system or a gear box system so that the 4 Gear set wouldn't clog up my inventory anymore (or just half as much )

[AlrikFassbauer]

What is this "Dual Spec", actually ?

 

SWTOR is - apart from DDO - my second MMO, so don't expect anything from me.

Edited July 22, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[mrbloodysunday]

"Dual Spec" would allow you to save different spec(ialization)s, and let you change it without having to reset all skillpoints and manually putting them into another spec. In my case, i could change between my marksman and dirfy-fighting spec.

 

I can live without it, but i would prefer to have it. Especially in OPs it would be nice to just switch on Bosses or Trash. Ok, now i need my 30 seconds to do it, and so i dont see a reason to not have a simple button for that. Cant be that difficult to implement. Quickbars should be saved, too, because of the changing skills.

Edited July 22, 2013 by mrbloodysunday

[AlrikFassbauer]

Ah, thank you for your explanation.

[Superman_AZ]

I guess they would be able to **** it up so bad, that both gears/speccs would be taken or none of them

 

Now on a more serious note:

I would really like to see a dual specc system or a gear box system so that the 4 Gear set wouldn't clog up my inventory anymore (or just half as much )

I agree that the option should exist. I think people are more hung up on the NAME and less focused on the concept. We just want the ability to respec in 5 seconds rather than 3 minutes. Field Respec + UI button configuration saved, plus skill trees already saved. Even though the gear manager was separate in WoW, it could be integrated into the UI save config. Once you have your respec, skill trees, buttons, and gear the way you want it, just select a save slot and hit save. Then anytime you access the respec menu from a drop down, choose the spec you want and hit OK.

 

Your skill trees, button layouts, and gear would instantly appear. It could pull your gear from your Cargo Hold the same way it pulls crafting materials for your companions. Takes up less bag space. This would be a QoL improvement for many players, myself included who uses at least one spec for PvE and one for PvP. Call it ANYTHING you like, but implement it already.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Superman_AZ

[Soluss]

You are wrong.. There is just no getting around it.. If specs had value then people wouldn't demand to change them all the time.. What people really want is one spec that does it all.. Isn't that what dual spec'ing sort of allows a player to have?? I think it is.. I realize you want it.. But wanting it doesn't make you right..

 

I played WOW for over 5 years.. I saw dual spec'ing effect WOW for the worse.. From player quality to the value of a spec.. Nobody specialized in anything anymore..

 

No, you are wrong. People don't want one spec that does it all. They want a convenient feature that allows you to switch from tank to dps or from heals to dps and vise versa, for example. We can already do this now with field respect. What we are asking for is to have a couple specs saved, to make it easier to do what we already do.

 

This is ToR, not WoW.

 

Cell phones?? You are equating specs to a cell phone?? Ok.. I am done laughing.. Get a clue dude.. That is beyond lame.. There is no reason to have dual spec'ing.. I know why people want it.. But it isn't good for the health of the game.. Why have a spec at all if you can change it at will??

 

Yes, I am. I am now laughing back at you because you don't seem to even understand what dual spec is. Its a convenient feature that allows people to do what we can already do but faster. We can already change specs at will. Dual spec will not change anything except the speed of which you can do so.

 

See you are ignoring the real issue here.. Which all the people that want it ignore.. They just want easy mode.. They don't want to work for anything.. They just want convenient.. They want easy.. Laziness has taken over the game.. Nobody actually wants to play it.. To be honest, you shouldn't have dual spec'ing at all.. It should go back to old school where you had to go to a trainer and pay a lot of credits.. Having a spec should have value.. I remember when people rolled specific characters just for PVP, and tanks and healers were different characters.. Changing your spec was just meant to alter your current spec.. Not go from one talent tree to another..

 

Ok, now I see what I think you are missing. We, atleast most of us, is not asking to change from one AC to the other. We are just asking to have stored specs within the ACs we have. You realize that we can already do this now, right? Its just not saved. Its not lazy. Its just time saving.

What we have now is fine and is actually more than enough.. The inconvenience that we have now is justified to insure the value of our spec.. We do not need nor should we have a 1 button do it all for us.. If you don't want to play the game and all you care about is easy.. You probably shouldn't be playing an MMO..

 

Again, I don't see how its devalues a spec by having it presaved, instead of having to re-allocate points over and over. Allocating points the first time is playing the game. Doing it over and over is just inconvenient. It is not playing the game, its just a system within the game. I remember when cars didn't have cruise control. You are still driving a car, with cruise control.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Soluss

[Soluss]

No problem, folks. If you want this feature - keep dreaming.

 

But you must explain me something - who will refund my CC on all my characters, that was used to buy field respec.

And wich price it will have for the F2P'ers? Or think that this will be for free?

Becouse if it will be for free - subs will lose one of their features.

 

On the other hand, if this will have current cost of respec - F2P'ers will rage quit becouse they don't have it for free.

 

You can still use field respect to respect. Having dual spec does not change that. Noone refunded my credits when the portable statues came out that allows me to repair every minute. Makes the repair droid worthless.