Hey Dev's How about an actual expansion? Is that in the works ?

[RTCBrad]

Are you saying that Rakata, Battlemaster, Campaign, and War Hero gear looked any better?

 

Nope, I said, the cartel sets would have been world drops, raid gear or quest rewards, had it not been for the cash cow shop.

 

Just like when those above sets were released there was a ton of orange mod-able gear you could choose from, with the makeb expansion there were next to none, only more cartel market gear.

[TUXs]

If a smaller (I think) company can put out quality expansions for an older and less popular game, why can't EA? I know they like money, and I'd gladly give them some.

That right there is the problem...EA has far too many things going on. They don't care about SWTOR. Even if SWTOR doubles it's revenue (SWTORs revenue), it's a fraction of what they would make on any other games DLC, so it won't matter to them. Hell, EA views each new Madden as an "expansion" every year.

 

SWTOR is a big MMO in the MMO market, but insignificant in the eyes of EA. The revenue being made by SWTOR doesn't seem to be going back into it. EA seems more intent on short term returns than they do long term returns, which is what MMOs excel in.

[Ottoattack]

Too bad 1.7 and 2.2 throw a monkey wrench into your argument.

 

Gree event has been here way before 1.7. Its not new content by any means. 2.2 content Same ops we had for month on a new difficulty is considered content now? Whats next? If they bump black hole daily to level 55 is that content too?

[Deganji]

That right there is the problem...EA has far too many things going on. They don't care about SWTOR. Even if SWTOR doubles it's revenue (SWTORs revenue), it's a fraction of what they would make on any other games DLC, so it won't matter to them. Hell, EA views each new Madden as an "expansion" every year.

 

SWTOR is a big MMO in the MMO market, but insignificant in the eyes of EA. The revenue being made by SWTOR doesn't seem to be going back into it. EA seems more intent on short term returns than they do long term returns, which is what MMOs excel in.

 

That does make sense, didn't think of it that way. Turbine may be a small company, but it has what, two MMOs it runs? That would make a lot of sense that they could put the time into real expansions as they don't have their hands in a million things.

 

I haven't wanted to say it, because I'm sure I'll get yelled at for it, but I sometimes do feel like EA is trying to squeeze as much cash out of the game as they can before they shut it down. I really expect to start seeing game content in the cartel market instead of cosmetic only stuff, and that would be the nail in the coffin for me as a subscriber.

 

I hope I'm really wrong because this game is good and can be polished into a real gem. To bad they can't sell the game to a developer that might care about it, EA wouldn't give up the rights I'd bet on that.

 

The game just needs a little more polish, the space game reworked completely, and the announcement of a real expansion. That would bring players back, I'm sure. It will also never happen, but I hope I'm wrong.

[MillionsKNives]

Gree event has been here way before 1.7. Its not new content by any means. 2.2 content Same ops we had for month on a new difficulty is considered content now? Whats next? If they bump black hole daily to level 55 is that content too?

 

Really? Is that why it was titled "Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree", with the following in the patch notes, "A new Event, Relics of the Gree, has been added to the Western Ice Shelf on Ilum."

 

And the NiM introduces new mechanics, plus new speeders, and gear. It's new stuff, it may not be a LOT of new stuff, and you may not like the new stuff, but it's new stuff.

[Andryah]

An expansion is one that is sold in the store similar to the main game when it went live. That to me is a normal expansion.

 

Most expansions in the future in MMOs will be digital only publications. For that matter, I expect MMO launches will head this same direction. Personally, I prefer a box and will buy it if it's available... but I'm a realist and understand that the packaging does not define the product.

 

Why? For the same reason that streaming video is eroding the DVD/Blu-Ray markets: 1) technology enables it 2) it's lower delivery cost for the developer 3) it provides modestly lower prices to the consumer. 4) no inventory (which is a big deal in a competitive market place).

 

My point? Box or digital in today's market does not define what is/is-not an expansion. MMOs have in fact been doing both for years now and will continue to do more digital over time. In fact, boxed units only really exist to serve the nostalgic player (as I stated, I prefer a box as I like having the disks) and to serve as a retail vehicle for big store chains (until such time as they go electronic kiosk, which is coming for even the big department store chains, for all the reasons I stated above + internet competitors like Amazon already do it).

Edited June 20, 2013 by Andryah

[Skaol-dirtyd]

Most expansions in the future in MMOs will be digital only publications. For that matter, I expect MMO launches will head this same direction. Personally, I prefer a box and will buy it if it's available... but I'm a realist and understand that the packaging does not define the product.

 

Why? For the same reason that streaming video is eroding the DVD/Blu-Ray markets: 1) technology enables it 2) it's lower delivery cost for the developer 3) it provides modestly lower prices to the consumer. 4) no inventory (which is a big deal in a competitive market.

 

My point? Box or digital in today's market does not define what is/is-not an expansion. MMOs have in fact been doing both for years now and will continue to do more digital over time. In fact, boxed units only really exist to serve the nostalgic player (as I stated, I prefer a box as I like having the disks) and to serve as a retail vehicle for big store chains (until such time as they go electronic kiosk, which is coming for even the big department store chains, for all the reasons I stated above + internet competitors like Amazon already do it).

 

Well look here we agree on something. Well put!

Edited June 20, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[Andryah]

I would say that RotHC was more of a DLC content update versus an actual expansion such as other MMO's put out. But that's just the nature of the new gaming model. Blizzard's giant expansion model is overly expensive for developers that don't have huge publishers that are willing to throw cash at their product. If SWTOR was EA's crown jewel, we would get that kind of treatment, but EA's got so many fingers in so many pies, SWTOR is just another mouth to feed. Nope, we're never going to get the red carpet treatment that Blizzard's fan base gets.

 

/Agree..... except for the "red carpet treatment" statement about Blizzard. It's true that they have more to lose if they let their franchise go belly-up (because it's a significant percentage of their gross revenues)... but while they do quality expansion... I don't seem them as market defining nor red carpet treatment go players.

 

In reality, terms like "expansion" or "DLC" are just attempts to parse for bias in discussion. The market is changing and some players get it and embrace it and others dig their heels in and go to war over it. The market however, changes regardless.

 

Personally, I don't care if I get a big $40-$60 expansion every three years, or several smaller $10-20 dollar expansions in the same time frame. In the end... three years later the net effect is the same in terms of content. But IMO, the nomadic and growing impatient nature of the MMO player base in general drives the market to more frequent paid expansions, and these are by definition going to be smaller because expansion content for MMOs is hard, time consuming, and resource intensive.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Andryah

[Soluss]

/Agree..... except for the "red carpet treatment" statement about Blizzard. It's true that they have more to lose if they let their franchise go belly-up (because it's a significant percentage of their gross revenues)... but while they do quality expansion... I don't seem them as market defining nor red carpet treatment go players.

 

In reality, terms like "expansion" or "DLC" are just attempts to parse for bias in discussion. The market is changing and some players get it and embrace it and others dig their heels in and go to war over it. The market however, changes regardless.

 

Personally, I don't care if I get a big $40-$60 expansion every three years, or several smaller $10-20 dollar expansions in the same time frame. In the end... three years later the net effect is the same in terms of content. But IMO, the nomadic and growing impatient nature of the MMO player base in general drives the market to more frequent paid expansions, and these are by definition going to be smaller because expansion content for MMOs is hard, time consuming, and resource intensive.

 

I don't care if its 1 large 50 buck expansion or 4 smaller 10 dollar expansions either. I just don't think they are going to put our 4 smaller expansions either. If we only get 1 small expansion per year, I believe it becomes a problem.

[DarthTHC]

I don't care if its 1 large 50 buck expansion or 4 smaller 10 dollar expansions either. I just don't think they are going to put our 4 smaller expansions either. If we only get 1 small expansion per year, I believe it becomes a problem.

 

Apples & oranges. Are we getting 1 small paid expansion only? Or are we getting 1 small paid expansion and some number of unpaid expansions? Sure, the unpaid ones may not have new planets or increase the level cap, but they seem to do most other things in the game, over time, don't they?

[Nydus]

They won't -- and shouldn't -- significantly revamp anything. Remember what killed SWG?

 

They can, however, add new features and mechanics into the game (space combat, etc.) in an expansion.

 

- Arcada

[Soluss]

Apples & oranges. Are we getting 1 small paid expansion only? Or are we getting 1 small paid expansion and some number of unpaid expansions? Sure, the unpaid ones may not have new planets or increase the level cap, but they seem to do most other things in the game, over time, don't they?

 

Not quite. Other MMOs do both. Rift , imo, is one of the best at content updates. Rift also put out a large expansion. WoW has had a lot of updating and they put out large expansions. EQ2 has had a lot of updating and they put out adventure packs and large expansions. Lotro had a lot of content updating and put out some large expansions and some small expansions. GW2 has put out a lot of content updating and Im sure they will do large expansions.

 

What I am saying is that if we are to get the Makeb style expansions then I think we need atleast 2 of those per year, on top of the normal content updates. Makeb style, once per year , is not enough IMO.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Soluss

[MrJurgens]

Not quite. Other MMOs do both. Rift , imo, is one of the best at content updates. Rift also put out a large expansion. WoW has had a lot of updating and they put out large expansions. EQ2 has had a lot of updating and they put out adventure packs and large expansions. Lotro had a lot of content updating and put out some large expansions and some small expansions. GW2 has put out a lot of content updating and Im sure they will do large expansions.

 

What I am saying is that if we are to get the Makeb style expansions then I think we need atleast 2 of those per year, on top of the normal content updates. Makeb style, once per year , is not enough IMO.

Agreed.

 

In my opinion, this "expansion" was nothing more than downloadable content. It didn't really bring anything new to the table for PvP other than new brackets and 2 new tiers of PvP gear to grind (and TONS of bugs and exploits).

 

I've only done Makeb twice for the storyline—once on the Republic side and once on the Imperial. I know I'm never stepping foot on that planet again.

 

Edited June 20, 2013 by MrJurgens

[Nevaehh]

They won't -- and shouldn't -- significantly revamp anything. Remember what killed SWG?

 

They can, however, add new features and mechanics into the game (space combat, etc.) in an expansion.

 

- Arcada

 

What killed SWG was the blatant disregard for cannon and allowing everyone to become jedi even though this takes place around the time of the first 3 movies when jedi if they are still around are in hiding

[Nevaehh]

Agreed.

 

In my opinion, this "expansion" was nothing more than downloadable content. It didn't really bring anything new to the table for PvP other than new brackets and 2 new tiers of PvP gear to grind (and TONS of bugs and exploits).

 

I've only done Makeb twice for the storyline—once on the Republic side and once on the Imperial. I know I'm never stepping foot on that planet again.

 

 

I agree with you Makeb was nothing more than a DLC that they called an expansion which it wasn't. I would also like to see a significant change to pvp and pve meaning and I have said this before I would like for them to make seperate damage and hold tables for pvp and pve so as when they balance they don't break a skill that works fine in pve. This would also serve as a great template if they did it this way to allow for jedi and sith to have actual power pools where a player could customize their character rather than this simplistic 1 size fits all approach

[Nevaehh]

That does make sense, didn't think of it that way. Turbine may be a small company, but it has what, two MMOs it runs? That would make a lot of sense that they could put the time into real expansions as they don't have their hands in a million things.

 

I haven't wanted to say it, because I'm sure I'll get yelled at for it, but I sometimes do feel like EA is trying to squeeze as much cash out of the game as they can before they shut it down. I really expect to start seeing game content in the cartel market instead of cosmetic only stuff, and that would be the nail in the coffin for me as a subscriber.

 

I hope I'm really wrong because this game is good and can be polished into a real gem. To bad they can't sell the game to a developer that might care about it, EA wouldn't give up the rights I'd bet on that.

 

The game just needs a little more polish, the space game reworked completely, and the announcement of a real expansion. That would bring players back, I'm sure. It will also never happen, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

I hope you're wrong too. However on much of what you say I cant disagree unfortunately. I wish Microsoft had bought BioWare instead of EA. I don't care much for Microsoft myself especially with their recent Screw ups with the Xbox 1 but Microsoft is known for letting companies they buy retain their autonomy so long as they are producing profit and they have no problems throwing money at a game or letting developers take their time and make quality content so long as they can prove the company will get their money's worth. EA doesn't work like that. Its about milking the brand name for all its worth before discarding it for something else. Very short term thinking when they should be thinking about the long game (pardon the pun).

[SithKoriandr]

The fact they let you level up 5 more levels more than qualifies for an expansion itself.

 

When CoH let you level up more, it was called an issue.

 

When BnS lets you level up more, it's called an update.

 

When WoW lets you level up more, it comes with a lot more content.

[SithKoriandr]

What killed SWG was the blatant disregard for cannon and allowing everyone to become jedi even though this takes place around the time of the first 3 movies when jedi if they are still around are in hiding

 

that did not kill SWG Their expansion that changed everything did.

[Nevaehh]

that did not kill SWG Their expansion that changed everything did.

 

I stand corrected. That was what I meant but I did not state it that way. You are right though it was their expansion.

[TUXs]

I don't care if its 1 large 50 buck expansion or 4 smaller 10 dollar expansions either. I just don't think they are going to put our 4 smaller expansions either. If we only get 1 small expansion per year, I believe it becomes a problem.

 

Good luck with that...they advertised Makeb for a full year...we've heard nothing of the NEXT "expansion/DLC" yet. Think they're even working on one?

[Regentlord]

Good luck with that...they advertised Makeb for a full year...we've heard nothing of the NEXT "expansion/DLC" yet. Think they're even working on one?

 

They probably recently put an expansion back on the table with how well the game is doing.

[SithKoriandr]

Good luck with that...they advertised Makeb for a full year...we've heard nothing of the NEXT "expansion/DLC" yet. Think they're even working on one?

 

I do. But only during their breaks, and so it's purely optional for the employees to work on it, so it's really slow going.

[Nevaehh]

I do. But only during their breaks, and so it's purely optional for the employees to work on it, so it's really slow going.

 

I hope you're wrong but if that is the case that could spell a death knell for this game.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Good luck with that...they advertised Makeb for a full year...we've heard nothing of the NEXT "expansion/DLC" yet. Think they're even working on one?

 

Probably because anything they tell us, people somehow manage to see it as a bad thing and QQ.

 

Of course, they tell you nothing and people are still crying.

 

So, really, the obvious problem here is not Bioware's lack of information or too much exposition.

 

The problem is that everyone is cray-cray.

[Tfranco]

I didn't miss the fact that BioWare was bought ages ago. I had issues with it then and I still do now. I would have preferred BioWare be bought by Microsoft rather than EA because of EA's business practices. I'm not extolling the virtues of Microsoft by any means, especially considering their Xbox 360 debacle which has now been compounded with their new Xbox one and copy protected nonsence. What I am saying is this, even though Microsoft has a habit of making an offer that smaller companies cant refuse they also allow companies to remain autonomous which is something that EA does not do. EA buys a company and converts them into the EA way of doing things which is offering a host of rushed or generic products at an exorbitant amount of money. You doubt ? What was the verdict of Mass Effect 3?

The only thing that remains autonomous with companies that EA buys are the name which EA milks for all its worth. In this case people have fond memories of BioWare which at one point was known as Microsoft's dirty little secret in the form of KOTR and because of that people will still buy the product despite the fact that it is now EA owned. I also don't blame EA fully for SWTOR. I think the fault lay in both parties. I believe BioWare made the mistake in using too much from WOW in terms of a template rather than drawing from other sources as well and more importantly drawing from themselves. BioWare in making this game should have done what they did best and just been BioWare and went their own way in development rather than simply drawing from one main template.

 

Now with regards to the other stuff you mentioned such as actors and the like. They did it with Makeb obviously so why not a fully actualized expansion that I wouldn't mind paying $40-60 for? The set up is already there for an expansion. No matter the class it all ends with the war about to break out again. This would be a prime opportunity to elevate this and move away from the WOW' esk one size character fits all when it does not. I also said way back in beta they needed more classes than what was offered but as a start it was decent. Also quick blub going back to EA. Google search EA and the Golden Poo award and read what it says about their business practices

 

I don't think he was saying don't make an expansion, he was pointing out flaws in your ideas.

 

When it comes to classes he is absolutely 100% correct. Do not expect a new one anytime soon, that would be incredibly difficult to throw together. Not impossible no, but difficult. Not only all the voice acting and re voice acting, but also new story, companions, balancing issues, making a mirror version or a neutral story/start, a new starting planet/modification of current ones. All tough stuff to tackle. I wouldn't expect anything like that soon.

 

New races he is wrong though, it seems like cathar was enough of a success to look into continuing. But he was right about wookies and similar races. It's been said a thousand times no species that don't speak basic will be added. People have to deal with it.

 

You keep mentioning wow having too much an influence, have you looked at mmos recently? They all have a lot of influence from wow, if not being complete copies. Face it, blizzard did a lot of things right, that's why wow is still he #1 MMO. Why wouldn't people let that influence them?

 

You mention customization of characters needing improvement, what the hell more do your expect?

We can customize:

Hair

Head

Body type

Face

Scars

Tattoos

Jewelry

Makeup

Race

Eye color

 

And probably more that I can't think of ATM, and that's just character creation. I mean what you want elder scrolls style scroll bars on everything? Customization is fine, hell it's thriving.

 

I have to agree with the guy you quoted, you expected swg 2 and got this. From the start it was clear this would be nothing like swg, at least to me it was. Go play swg emu if you miss it. This game is doing just fine.