Hey Dev's How about an actual expansion? Is that in the works ?

[chuixupu]

You're right BioWare was not eaten by EA in 2007, its been a slow consumption like the sarlac and yes GW2 is an entirely new game that just happens to build upon the old one and let the player keep their GW1 characters, accomplishments and areas ...

 

Incorrect. You can track your achievements from Gw1, but you can't bring your characters over. The games remain separate, but you can get some benefits from your old character's accomplishments if you link the accounts together through arenanet.

Anyway, it's not an expansion and all this conversation is completely inconsequential to anything regarding future swtor expansions.

Edited June 19, 2013 by chuixupu

[Knockerz]

You missed the point rather by accident or deliberate and I said there was a huge sub drop early in the game. I wasn't referring to now and are you counting actual subscriptions or the amount of F2P players that populate the game? there is a difference

 

Subscription numbers aren't as important. In F2P games it's the revenue or profits that are better indicator of success.

[Knockerz]

Wut?

 

1) You do not get to define what is/is_not an expansion.. the company does. Any discussion about the definition of the term is circular at best, because people will bend terms to fit their agenda.

 

2) GW2 IS-NOT and expansion to GW. It's a different game entirely. If a different game entirely is how you define an expansion... I'm pretty sure the answer from Bioware will be NEVER.

 

 

An expansion is one that is sold in the store similar to the main game when it went live. That to me is a normal expansion.

[chuixupu]

An expansion is one that is sold in the store similar to the main game when it went live. That to me is a normal expansion.

 

That's just your definition. A lot of games have digital only expansions.

 

I doubt we will see any more hard copies of swtor expansions because the requirement for such an expansion is that the developer reserves shelf space at a high price for said product very far in advance. If they fail to make that deadline and need to push it back, they still have to pay the stores for that shelf space for that time.

Edited June 19, 2013 by chuixupu

[DarkDisturbed]

Too bad 1.7 and 2.2 throw a monkey wrench into your argument.

 

What?...old content redone to death?

[Nevaehh]

Is ROTHC an expansion? Of course it was, but its a $10 expansion that barely delivered $10 worth of content, thus it feels very lack luster.

 

I am also in favor of large expansion with much content for $30 to $50, but I do not think that what BW wants. I think we are currently in the decline stage of the product (SWTOR) where BW is trying to make as much money from the product before it dies. They have no intentions of investing in the game. Since the end of last year we have not received any unpaid content (ROTHC which is a planet, 2 dailies and an Ops is paid content). The next content will be in August which is 2 FPs and a daily section.

 

By the time version 2.4 hits it will be a stretch of 10-11 month with the only new unpaid content being 2 FPs, a daily and 1 event that will last 1-2 weeks, and no PvP content. That's $150-$165 worth of sub money for that content.

God I hope you are wrong about the whole BW trying to make as much money before the product dies thing. I can't say you are wrong but I hope you are. As for the rest I'm willing to compromise on the Makeb "expansion." You make a valid point it could be seen as an expansion (which they called it) Be it a very small lackluster one that subscribers should have only had to pay $5 not $10 for. And yes when I mentioned a true expansion I meant as said in my original post an out of the box $40-$60 expansion with new classes and continuing story since we all know the war picks up. I think it would be very interesting to have an expansion that is the war and maybe has a 3rd and a 4th faction that may not want to see either side victorious or helps for their own agenda

[gorstram]

I would say that RotHC was more of a DLC content update versus an actual expansion such as other MMO's put out. But that's just the nature of the new gaming model. Blizzard's giant expansion model is overly expensive for developers that don't have huge publishers that are willing to throw cash at their product. If SWTOR was EA's crown jewel, we would get that kind of treatment, but EA's got so many fingers in so many pies, SWTOR is just another mouth to feed. Nope, we're never going to get the red carpet treatment that Blizzard's fan base gets.

 

The other reason it'll be hard to get new classes and new individual story content is due to the fact that they front loaded the class experience with so much VO, that they'll never be able to duplicate those kinds of resources for future content. Makeb had very few new VO parts, and instead of building an entire fully fleshed out world, it had mesa instances that allowed them to short cut a lot of their graphical design.

 

If Makeb tells us anything, it's that BW is having to make due with content on the cheap. It's kind of sad actually, I was hoping that we would get more beautiful worlds like Voss and Hoth.

[MSchuyler]

The fact is nobody knows subscription numbers. It's all speculation based on anecdote and outright guessing. It would be really nice if people stopped putting forward their SWAG numbers as gospel truth. I guess that will never happen.

 

Secondly, the game took years to develop and is a year and a half old and already you want an "expansion" (for free, of course) that equals the depth of the original game. It's not going to happen. You guys who burned through 50 levels in a couple of weeks and the next 5 in a day are SOL. You are going to have to find a different game to play because nobody is ever going to satisfy your desire for content. Not Bioware nor any other company is going to be able to give you what you want.

 

What you NEED is a 12 step program to cure you of your addiction so you can go outside, get some fresh air, and interact with real people.

[gorstram]

The fact is nobody knows subscription numbers. It's all speculation based on anecdote and outright guessing. It would be really nice if people stopped putting forward their SWAG numbers as gospel truth. I guess that will never happen.

 

Secondly, the game took years to develop and is a year and a half old and already you want an "expansion" (for free, of course) that equals the depth of the original game. It's not going to happen. You guys who burned through 50 levels in a couple of weeks and the next 5 in a day are SOL. You are going to have to find a different game to play because nobody is ever going to satisfy your desire for content. Not Bioware nor any other company is going to be able to give you what you want.

 

What you NEED is a 12 step program to cure you of your addiction so you can go outside, get some fresh air, and interact with real people.

 

I don't want anything for free. I want something that's worth the cash I shell out. I would have gladly paid $30 for an expansion that was actually an expansion. Not a two week extension to existing content. Also, I don't burn through content. It took me a while to get to end game because i wanted to experience all of the story. But once I got to end game, the game just took a nose dive. It's almost as if EA interrupted BW's development as they were working on end game and pushed them to release the product unfinished.

 

Even if you roll alts, you'll run out of content far before they release new worlds. Their cadence is off, and they're unable to produce enough content to keep the masses happy. Couple that with the fact that EA presses them into producing more CM items, you get a situation that's untenable.

[Nevaehh]

OP, since you completely missed the fact that BioWare was bought by EA ages ago, and it was EA's money that even allowed this game to be conceived, many of your points are losing much of their value, as you just look uniformed and just spewing hate that "it is all EA's fault", as it is popular in many EA games.

 

New classes in SWTOR are increbidly complicated. As you have probably missed, each class is fully voiced, people react to it accordingly by titles (again, fully voiced) and has its own unique story. So new class will not happen any time soon. Advanced class? Maybe. Some special "Legendary" class? Also maybe. But no new classes.

 

New races are not ging to happen soon, again, it has been explained to death why. It would be too much work with remaking all custscenes to have proper camera angles in case of big/small races, no Galactic Basic speech (hearing wookie roar in all his missions would probably drive people insane).

 

Jedi/Sith characters were made similar in power to other characters for balance reasons. That is not a cop out, that is how the classes have to be, unless you want game filled with Jedi and not the other, often much more interesting, classes. Those classes are not some random schmucks either, they are "the best of the best", "Han Solos, Boba Fetts, etc of their time".

 

It seems you want SWG, so go play SWGemu.

 

Also, today, you can only calculate how well is MMO doing by looking at its incomes, not by looking at numbers of players. If extra income from CM is generating enough, you cannot just throw that away

 

I didn't miss the fact that BioWare was bought ages ago. I had issues with it then and I still do now. I would have preferred BioWare be bought by Microsoft rather than EA because of EA's business practices. I'm not extolling the virtues of Microsoft by any means, especially considering their Xbox 360 debacle which has now been compounded with their new Xbox one and copy protected nonsence. What I am saying is this, even though Microsoft has a habit of making an offer that smaller companies cant refuse they also allow companies to remain autonomous which is something that EA does not do. EA buys a company and converts them into the EA way of doing things which is offering a host of rushed or generic products at an exorbitant amount of money. You doubt ? What was the verdict of Mass Effect 3?

The only thing that remains autonomous with companies that EA buys are the name which EA milks for all its worth. In this case people have fond memories of BioWare which at one point was known as Microsoft's dirty little secret in the form of KOTR and because of that people will still buy the product despite the fact that it is now EA owned. I also don't blame EA fully for SWTOR. I think the fault lay in both parties. I believe BioWare made the mistake in using too much from WOW in terms of a template rather than drawing from other sources as well and more importantly drawing from themselves. BioWare in making this game should have done what they did best and just been BioWare and went their own way in development rather than simply drawing from one main template.

 

Now with regards to the other stuff you mentioned such as actors and the like. They did it with Makeb obviously so why not a fully actualized expansion that I wouldn't mind paying $40-60 for? The set up is already there for an expansion. No matter the class it all ends with the war about to break out again. This would be a prime opportunity to elevate this and move away from the WOW' esk one size character fits all when it does not. I also said way back in beta they needed more classes than what was offered but as a start it was decent. Also quick blub going back to EA. Google search EA and the Golden Poo award and read what it says about their business practices

[Floredon]

I highly doubt EA would sign off on an investment in a full-blown SWTOR expansion at this point unfortunately. I think they're more likely to continue with these mini expansions, which require little investment and thus produce less risk of losing money. Put yourself in the shoes of an EA executive or board member and ask yourself if you would invest millions of dollars in a franchise that was much less successful than projected, and produces less revenue than other games in the portfolio. Edited June 19, 2013 by Floredon

[Soluss]

The fact is nobody knows subscription numbers. It's all speculation based on anecdote and outright guessing. It would be really nice if people stopped putting forward their SWAG numbers as gospel truth. I guess that will never happen.

 

 

Fact is we do know the subscribers numbers. It doesn't really matter and it is totally off topic of this thread, but we do know them.

[Deganji]

At least we didn't pay as much as other MMO expansions, which normally cost as much as a full game. I'd be mad if I paid $50-60 for RotHC. I paid what, $10 I think, and I think I got quite a bit for that price. Still think as an expansion, it should have had new flashpoints. It was really light on group content IMO, but you can get everything you want.

 

They pop one of these out a year, with flashpoints next time, and I'd be happy.

[Soluss]

At least we didn't pay as much as other MMO expansions, which normally cost as much as a full game. I'd be mad if I paid $50-60 for RotHC. I paid what, $10 I think, and I think I got quite a bit for that price. Still think as an expansion, it should have had new flashpoints. It was really light on group content IMO, but you can get everything you want.

 

They pop one of these out a year, with flashpoints next time, and I'd be happy.

 

I would have rather paid 50 bucks for a full blown expansion then 10 bucks for what we got. If they did those 10 dollar ones, like 4 times a year, it wouldn't be too bad but I don't think they will.

[Deganji]

I would have rather paid 50 bucks for a full blown expansion then 10 bucks for what we got. If they did those 10 dollar ones, like 4 times a year, it wouldn't be too bad but I don't think they will.

 

Agreed. I would have loved a full blown expansion. It could still happen, LotRO has been free to play for years and is still putting out full size expansions. To top that, last time I logged into it the player base was no where near the size of SWTOR.

 

If a smaller (I think) company can put out quality expansions for an older and less popular game, why can't EA? I know they like money, and I'd gladly give them some.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Deganji

[Nevaehh]

Agreed. I would have loved a full blown expansion. It could still happen, LotRO has been free to play for years and is still putting out full size expansions. To top that, last time I logged into it the player base was no where near the size of SWTOR.

 

If a smaller (I think) company can put out quality expansions for an older and less popular game, why can't EA? I know they like money, and I'd gladly give them some.

 

Amen to that brother. I second that. If Lord of the rings can put out expansions why not this? It's no secret that EA makes shameless cash grabs expansions can only line their pockets more

[Nevaehh]

I highly doubt EA would sign off on an investment in a full-blown SWTOR expansion at this point unfortunately. I think they're more likely to continue with these mini expansions, which require little investment and thus produce less risk of losing money. Put yourself in the shoes of an EA executive or board member and ask yourself if you would invest millions of dollars in a franchise that was much less successful than projected, and produces less revenue than other games in the portfolio.

 

Its star was which like star trek is a license to print money if done properly. Also EA didn't loose money on this game, the company made its money back within roughly two months of it releasing which means money made after was pure profit. The issue they had with this game was that it didn't turn out to be the WOW killer they wanted. This disappointment was largely their fault considering EA like other companies fail to realize that WOW was an outlier rather than the norm.

[Soluss]

Agreed. I would have loved a full blown expansion. It could still happen, LotRO has been free to play for years and is still putting out full size expansions. To top that, last time I logged into it the player base was no where near the size of SWTOR.

 

If a smaller (I think) company can put out quality expansions for an older and less popular game, why can't EA? I know they like money, and I'd gladly give them some.

 

I believe they can and I am hoping that they will.

[jankiel]

Agreed. I would have loved a full blown expansion. It could still happen, LotRO has been free to play for years and is still putting out full size expansions. To top that, last time I logged into it the player base was no where near the size of SWTOR.

 

If a smaller (I think) company can put out quality expansions for an older and less popular game, why can't EA? I know they like money, and I'd gladly give them some.

 

*hear *hear*

[Ravenpsix]

It's just like my title says, how about an actual expansion? I don't mean what we got with makeb which was not really an expansion but a paid update that once upon a time (before BioWare got bought and eaten by EA) BioWare would have dropped as a free update to a game. They did this with Baldurs Gate just to name one title. What I would like to see is an actual expansion with new classes such as Teras Kasaii, beast trainers, Imperial guard, as well as races such as wookie (no ewoks pleas). I would like to see classes with a third faction, like bounty hunter should have been. Crafting should be expanded and made more nuanced.

 

I believe part of the reason there was such a drop off of subscriptions early on was due to the fact that a lot of staunch Star wars Galaxy players were disappointed because they though in some ways this would be the rebirth or continuation of that . I would also like to see some serious revamping of the battle system. I feel that too much of WOW was used in the making of this game and not enough of BioWare or other company influences. A bang up job was done with classes other than jedi and sith but with those I feel they have been reduced to little more than pretty colored baton wielding characters. Supposedly this was done for balancing issues but I think that is a cop out .

I would like to see in an expansion the ability to customize characters to make ones own jedi, sith, or bounty hunter. Part of the fun of making a character is customizing it and discovering which skills not only synergize with each other but with an individuals play style. Even though two people may have the same sets of powers they didn't have the same powers per say. So it would be nice if an expansion is in the work to see other influences such as City Of heroes, Dragon Age, KOTOR, or Jedi knight Jedi Academy as more of an influence in terms of a battle system and skill selection.

 

The template for an expansion is already there. At the end of each story line its made pretty clear that the war is going to break out again. This is a great launch for an expansion story with new classes, abilities, and new options with crafting or actual guild bases. Now don't misunderstand me. I like the game, if I didn't I wouldn't pay for a monthly, but I can point out weakness (in my opinion) that should be addressed and the game has been out for a while so I'm wondering rather or not its time to consider an actual sold by the box expansion.

 

As much as i understand what are you trying to tell, i'm afraid it's impossible with how the game is build. BW would have needed to rework entire leveling system, including skills stats and such. It would be the whole new game then, with different dinamics and plaing styles... It won't be SWTOR, but SW-something-like-that.

[RTCBrad]

I highly doubt the money is a factor, since going F2P and implementing the ever growing cash shop I'm betting this game has made tons more money. There will be people that were subbed before cash shop that are still subbed now and buy stuff from the cash shop that previously would have been included in the game as part of their subscription.

 

Why do you think the raid sets look so utterly garbage compared to the cartel market sets?

 

Surely everyone realises this is no coincidence, they want people to get good gear mods then buy their nice looking cartel gear.

 

Before cash shop times these sets would have been world drops or quests or raid gear etc. Why do they have garbage items such the Jawa things as 'rares' in the packs? Because you buy more that way if you got actual rares every time you wouldn't need to buy so many.

 

I like this game a lot I really do but they are guilty of some very bad business practice at the moment, ever since the implementation of the cash shop tbh.

 

What do we see every single update without fail? New cash shop items. What do we fail to see almost every time? Actual new content.

[MillionsKNives]

What?...old content redone to death?

 

1.7 brought the Gree event, which was certainly new content. And while only a refresh of old content, 2.2 does bring new content whether you like that content or not.

 

I believe they can and I am hoping that they will.

 

Agreed, in my opinion when everything went south, BioWare was in a frenzy to convert the game to the F2P model, and on top of losing a lot of developers they were just scrambling to keep their heads above water. In the time since F2P the servers have become much more populated and things have settled a lot more. Now that the expansion has come out and things are a bit less up in the air on whether the game will fully capsize, I think we'll see larger content coming out than we have in the past. And we can only hope that EA will be willing to reinvest some more money into development resources now that they're making some more profit on it again.

 

I could be wrong, I hope I'm not.

[MillionsKNives]

I highly doubt the money is a factor, since going F2P and implementing the ever growing cash shop I'm betting this game has made tons more money. There will be people that were subbed before cash shop that are still subbed now and buy stuff from the cash shop that previously would have been included in the game as part of their subscription.

 

Why do you think the raid sets look so utterly garbage compared to the cartel market sets?

 

Surely everyone realises this is no coincidence, they want people to get good gear mods then buy their nice looking cartel gear.

 

Before cash shop times these sets would have been world drops or quests or raid gear etc. Why do they have garbage items such the Jawa things as 'rares' in the packs? Because you buy more that way if you got actual rares every time you wouldn't need to buy so many.

 

I like this game a lot I really do but they are guilty of some very bad business practice at the moment, ever since the implementation of the cash shop tbh.

 

What do we see every single update without fail? New cash shop items. What do we fail to see almost every time? Actual new content.

 

Are you saying that Rakata, Battlemaster, Campaign, and War Hero gear looked any better?

[Deganji]

Its star was which like star trek is a license to print money if done properly. Also EA didn't loose money on this game, the company made its money back within roughly two months of it releasing which means money made after was pure profit. The issue they had with this game was that it didn't turn out to be the WOW killer they wanted. This disappointment was largely their fault considering EA like other companies fail to realize that WOW was an outlier rather than the norm.

 

So, about making a WoW killer, here is the thing that most players and all the game companies don't get. There will never be a WoW killer, it's too big. It's like a huge fire, it will have to use up all it's fuel and fizzle out.

 

In the world of MMOs, WoW is a freak of nature, a mutant if you will. Due to so many people loving the RTS games and action adventures, they managed to pull in not just MMO players, but the average gamer also. Not a bad thing, but it just doesn't happen at the scale it did with other MMOs.

 

Until it, no MMO in the US saw subscriber numbers so high, and no other ever will. This game, just based off seeing the amount of people in game, would be considered a great success by MMO standards, if not for the huge freak in the corner.

 

If we could just get companies to realize they aren't competing against WoW, a fools folly, and are instead digging for a share of the regular MMO market. I think we'd stop seeing clones of it, and see some true innovation in MMOs. I'd love to see a new type of MMO combat myself. I'm honestly getting sick of hotbars and rotations, would love some action in my combat.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Deganji

[DarthTHC]

You missed the point rather by accident or deliberate and I said there was a huge sub drop early in the game. I wasn't referring to now and are you counting actual subscriptions or the amount of F2P players that populate the game? there is a difference

 

Obviously by the text you quoted, I provided two ranges; one for subscribers only and one for players overall.

 

Perhaps I missed the point, but by reading the OP, the point seems to have been that "a lot of staunch Star wars Galaxy players were disappointed because they though in some ways this would be the rebirth or continuation of that"

 

If you do the math, if every SWG subscriber came here and subscribed right now, it would increase the total subscriber base of this game by 10%. Ten percent.

 

If you look at this game's high mark for subscribers instead, 1.7 million, then the entirety of the former SWG subscriber base leaving en masse from this game would have cut it to 1.65 million, or by about 3%.

 

Even if 100% of the former SWG subscribers tried this game and subsequently left in disappointment, it would have had a negligible impact on this game's numbers.

 

In other words, I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things, former SWG players are pretty irrelevant to the equation. Sorry.