ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

I am usually an advocate for trying to keep every player playing the game. I really dislike the "door hit you" kind of comments. But I have to say that if someone threatens to quit playing the game due to a belief that it is somehow immoral to change your AC...the decisions should matter or I don't want to play stand...well, I'm not sure that is a stance that Bioware should pay attention to IMO.

[MajikMyst]

I am usually an advocate for trying to keep every player playing the game. I really dislike the "door hit you" kind of comments. But I have to say that if someone threatens to quit playing the game due to a belief that it is somehow immoral to change your AC...the decisions should matter or I don't want to play stand...well, I'm not sure that is a stance that Bioware should pay attention to IMO.

 

Wow has lost 3 million players and counting because Blizzard didn't listen to people that made those statements..

 

The topic of changing your class is one that just shouldn't have come up.. People have got so self entitled that they feel they can pressure a game developer in to changing anything to suit their needs.. This shouldn't even be open for discussion.. That is the entire point of rolling alts.. To play other classes.. No.. We the players do not get to debate what a class is or isn't.. Bioware is the authority here.. They designed the game, they get to decide..

 

The game is very clear on that our choices are permanent.. What more is there to ask??

 

Some people do threaten to leave because they mean it and they will.. After all, it is our only recourse as a player to let Bioware know they messed up.. They should listen to those people.. They should listen to everyone.. They should look for solutions that are in the games best interest.. For everyone.. Not just a few people..

 

AC swapping is not a change that is better for the game as a whole.. It is already a rule of the game.. There is no reason to change it because some people are to lazy to level another character..

[skomerko]

deleted Edited March 31, 2019 by skomerko

[Ajaxduo]

I really don't see the problem with implementing a paid of advanced class respec, it would allow casual gamers who don't have the time to reroll to switch over their existing character and they can continue to enjoy the game. Healer in your guild away on holiday and you desperately need one for the Ops team? Sure let me just spec over my Sniper. Flexibility and variety are important aspects in modern mmos, I understand those arguing against it are worried about FoTM PvP. But in all honesty you already have that, those who have the time just roll a character and use legacy gear to skip the grind. The pros outweigh the insignificant cons. Oh and you could be sure EAware would slap a hefty price on it and people would pay it, extra income for future content. I want to see more 'useful' things on the CM to spend my CC on, not just packs. We also need Skill loadouts for different specs, Guild ships, commendation exchange, etc.

[Syanis]

It was so easy to level up a toon before plus add in all the exp perks and the return of double exp weeks. Its a killer to allow advanced class respecs. Make a new toon, the game is built on making many toons. I'm also betting the vast vast majority wanting it spend countless hours in the fleet sitting around doing jack.

 

The real issue is people don't want to gear a new toon and be thinking how the same gear almost on their other toon of same base class is better / worse.

 

Tough crap imo. Bad idea allowing adv class respecs, simply bad business unless u charge like 2500 cartel coins per change or some other ungodly rate and allow it like once every 2-4 weeks max.

[chimex]

Personally, I dislike the idea of changing AC's after selection. If it's a change of playstyle without repeating content that you're after, roll the mirror AC and play the other faction.

 

However, I also understand that yes, people invest a lot of time and effort with their chars, and want to keep the progress (especially if in a good guild). I think having the option to pay for AC changes will open the floodgates to many issues (with over 500 posts thus far, I think it's safe to say most have been covered. Even if you disagree with them!)

 

However, I don't think it's too much to ask for 2 "lifetime" change options for a character (with a respectful cooldown between the two!) Giving them a chance to try the other AC. If they don't like it, they have the option to change back. After that, I believe there should not be an option to change again on that character, EVER!

 

Tbh, I think that's probably going to be the closest this community is ever going to get in the way of an agreement on this issue. Sounds reasonable?

[TheDarkRanger]

Yes, sounds reasonable, chimex.

[Flaniganican]

While I don't care for the idea of an AC change in general, I don't think I would have a problem with it if you could only do it ONCE per character or per legacy.

[chimex]

While I don't care for the idea of an AC change in general, I don't think I would have a problem with it if you could only do it ONCE per character or per legacy.

 

You see, that was my first and foremost idea. However, giving the option to change back ONCE per character stops the inevitable "I rerolled my AC, and I HATE IT! I wanna go back" whiplash from that idea.

[Avicii]

I really think it should be capped at below max level as it can create issues as noted in this thread. Capping it at 30 or 40 and make it x2 per toon or something. That way you can play the class if you don't like it swap. This will help with FoTM swapping or stacking certain classes in raids ect. Probably make it cost CC as well, not that I agree with it but with a f2p game or make it subs only.

 

 

That is how I would see it being a compromise more or less.

[MajikMyst]

I really don't see the problem with implementing a paid of advanced class respec.

 

That would be a pay to win option and we all should know that is a bad thing.. Pay to win doesn't belong in any game, let alone this one..

[drorold]

plase chnge ac

[MajikMyst]

However, I don't think it's too much to ask for 2 "lifetime" change options for a character (with a respectful cooldown between the two!) Giving them a chance to try the other AC. If they don't like it, they have the option to change back. After that, I believe there should not be an option to change again on that character, EVER!

 

See.. The problem with that is the current conversation we are having now.. Nobody knows what permanent means as it is.. The game says your choice is permanent and can't be changed... What makes you think your 2 changes only, after that no changes EVER is going to be any different?? People will still demand more..

 

If Bioware allows it once or twice, they will have shown that permanent means nothing and they will cave on the issue if there is enough complaining.. Well, if they allow it twice, they will allow it more times.. It is just a matter of time and a lot of complaining on the forums..

 

Is your idea reasonable?? Sure.. It should have been implemented before the game launched.. But now?? No.. AC's need to stay permanent.. And people need to look up the word permanent and come to terms with what it means..

Edited June 9, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Hizoka]

asking for an AC change in no different then asking Blizzard to let you change your mage into a rogue.

 

It is a completely stupid request in that game, yet you seem to think its ok in this game....

 

 

there are 8 classes on each side of this game not 4. There are only 4 stories on each side but each story applies to 2 classes. Your Advanced Class is your class it is not a spec. The sad thing is you have the little lazy kid player who wants everything without earning anything which think this change is ok. Then you have the intelligent player who knows what the meaning of "cannot be changed."

 

The problem with the new "gamer" is they grow up with a mom that never makes them earn anything, they are given everything without anything put into it. As a child they went to soccer and regardless if they scored a goal or ate dirt in the corner they get a first place trophy. All it does is teach kids that just showing up gets you everything you never have to earn anything. That is why so many gravitate to PvP, you get rewarded for showing up regardless oh what you do in the warzone. In PvE you have to work together as a team you have to be aware of more then just you and you cannot get rewarded by losing.

 

Its just pathetic how many gamers want instant max level character for no reason other then "i do not want to earn it by leveling another character." After all that is the only reason for it, they simply are too lazy to level a new character so they feel entitled to have one for no reason other then they want it.

[Khevar]

asking for an AC change in no different then asking Blizzard to let you change your mage into a rogue.

 

It is a completely stupid request in that game, yet you seem to think its ok in this game....

 

 

there are 8 classes on each side of this game not 4. There are only 4 stories on each side but each story applies to 2 classes. Your Advanced Class is your class it is not a spec. The sad thing is you have the little lazy kid player who wants everything without earning anything which think this change is ok. Then you have the intelligent player who knows what the meaning of "cannot be changed."

 

The problem with the new "gamer" is they grow up with a mom that never makes them earn anything, they are given everything without anything put into it. As a child they went to soccer and regardless if they scored a goal or ate dirt in the corner they get a first place trophy. All it does is teach kids that just showing up gets you everything you never have to earn anything. That is why so many gravitate to PvP, you get rewarded for showing up regardless oh what you do in the warzone. In PvE you have to work together as a team you have to be aware of more then just you and you cannot get rewarded by losing.

 

Its just pathetic how many gamers want instant max level character for no reason other then "i do not want to earn it by leveling another character." After all that is the only reason for it, they simply are too lazy to level a new character so they feel entitled to have one for no reason other then they want it.

I think it's interesting that throughout this thread, you are completely incapable of making your point without being insulting, derogatory, patronizing and arrogant.

 

It's almost as if you don't want to try and change anyone else's mind on the subject by presenting a logical coherent argument. You just want to convince the world that you are somehow better than everyone else.

[LordArtemis]

Wow has lost 3 million players and counting because Blizzard didn't listen to people that made those statements..

 

That's a pretty ludicrous contention IMO, not to mention serving to your position. I tend to think they lost those players because people are tired of the trinity and gear slot machine and want to do something else...see how that works?

 

The topic of changing your class is one that just shouldn't have come up.. People have got so self entitled that they feel they can pressure a game developer in to changing anything to suit their needs.. This shouldn't even be open for discussion.. That is the entire point of rolling alts.. To play other classes.. No.. We the players do not get to debate what a class is or isn't.. Bioware is the authority here.. They designed the game, they get to decide..

 

And I think they will decide. Saying there should have never been a conversation stands as another "your wasting your time it will never happen" comment, or at least infers that. If this is the will of the populace it will likely happen. I would rather see some restrictions than simply allow it to be the same as the free respec they implemented.

 

But I think saying it should be closed to discussion is a bit opinionated and to indicate it portends disaster just doesn't make sense IMO.

 

The game is very clear on that our choices are permanent.. What more is there to ask??

 

The same thing that is or was asked about everything else they said was a permanent choice and would never change, like creation appearance or cross class gear appearance....what do the players want? Originally these kind of things were indicated to be permanent by design and they had no intention of allowing players to change them then or in the future.

 

That dev staff is gone. The current dev staff seem much more open to changing what was considered "rules" from the past.

 

Some people do threaten to leave because they mean it and they will.. After all, it is our only recourse as a player to let Bioware know they messed up.. They should listen to those people.. They should listen to everyone.. They should look for solutions that are in the games best interest.. For everyone.. Not just a few people..

 

I just disagree. They should ignore the folks that say they will leave simply because it is fundamentally wrong to make choice not matter...like they ignored those that thought character creation choices should be permanent, or no character should ever wear gear that does not visually identify the class. Bioware DID ignore those folks and I think the game is better for it.

 

AC swapping is not a change that is better for the game as a whole.. It is already a rule of the game.. There is no reason to change it because some people are to lazy to level another character..

 

Any argument that is prefaced with the contention that players being lazy is the only reason they make a request should be automatically rejected as judgmental, fallacious and predatory, and therefore not worthy of consideration. If you have to insult someone to make your case your case has no merit IMO.

Edited June 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

I think it's interesting that throughout this thread, you are completely incapable of making your point without being insulting, derogatory, patronizing and arrogant.

 

It's almost as if you don't want to try and change anyone else's mind on the subject by presenting a logical coherent argument. You just want to convince the world that you are somehow better than everyone else.

 

Do a post history check on that particular community member. You will clearly see the nature of that person's posts. Which in turn should define the weight of their comments and contributions IMO.

[chimex]

See.. The problem with that is the current conversation we are having now.. Nobody knows what permanent means as it is.. The game says your choice is permanent and can't be changed... What makes you think your 2 changes only, after that no changes EVER is going to be any different?? People will still demand more..

 

If Bioware allows it once or twice, they will have shown that permanent means nothing and they will cave on the issue if there is enough complaining.. Well, if they allow it twice, they will allow it more times.. It is just a matter of time and a lot of complaining on the forums..

 

Is your idea reasonable?? Sure.. It should have been implemented before the game launched.. But now?? No.. AC's need to stay permanent.. And people need to look up the word permanent and come to terms with what it means..

 

Yes, you are 100% correct. Which is why I am against the idea of AC change. It states permanent, therefore, expect permanent. I also agree that if BW implemented the once change (and once more, back) to begin with, this would likely be a moot point.

 

If it were up to me, this would not even be a topic of discussion, there would be no AC changes what so ever. However, it is not up to me. Also, it is not up to the people who would like to throw cash at the problem and change AC's more times than their own socks.

 

There is, however, a middle ground. That is the point of view I am trying to reach. A way the people who say "it says permanent" and "it can lead to AC swapping more than a kardashians marrage" can be appeased with the knowledge that with a twice in a lifetime change (swap once, with an option to swap once more, back) that there is still a backbone (however bendy) in the notion that AC's and the choices regarding them still mean something.

 

Also, it allows that small amount of flexibility in offering those who do wish to swap AC's the chance to do so. Of course, there are some arguments which ring true such as achievements and event items (rackgoul plague crystals) which a reroll simply cannot accommodate for. With that in mind, I do (however reluctantly) see an honest and legitimate reason for want of an AC change. That said, I will fight tooth and nail to see the number of changes minimised hehe.

 

asking for an AC change in no different then asking Blizzard to let you change your mage into a rogue.

 

It is a completely stupid request in that game, yet you seem to think its ok in this game....

 

 

there are 8 classes on each side of this game not 4. There are only 4 stories on each side but each story applies to 2 classes. Your Advanced Class is your class it is not a spec. The sad thing is you have the little lazy kid player who wants everything without earning anything which think this change is ok. Then you have the intelligent player who knows what the meaning of "cannot be changed."

 

The problem with the new "gamer" is they grow up with a mom that never makes them earn anything, they are given everything without anything put into it. As a child they went to soccer and regardless if they scored a goal or ate dirt in the corner they get a first place trophy. All it does is teach kids that just showing up gets you everything you never have to earn anything. That is why so many gravitate to PvP, you get rewarded for showing up regardless oh what you do in the warzone. In PvE you have to work together as a team you have to be aware of more then just you and you cannot get rewarded by losing.

 

Its just pathetic how many gamers want instant max level character for no reason other then "i do not want to earn it by leveling another character." After all that is the only reason for it, they simply are too lazy to level a new character so they feel entitled to have one for no reason other then they want it.

 

^^ Well said!!

 

This is precisely why I don't wish to see anything more than a twice in a lifetime swap

[LordArtemis]

Yes, you are 100% correct. Which is why I am against the idea of AC change. It states permanent, therefore, expect permanent. I also agree that if BW implemented the once change (and once more, back) to begin with, this would likely be a moot point.

 

If it were up to me, this would not even be a topic of discussion, there would be no AC changes what so ever. However, it is not up to me. Also, it is not up to the people who would like to throw cash at the problem and change AC's more times than their own socks.

 

There is, however, a middle ground. That is the point of view I am trying to reach. A way the people who say "it says permanent" and "it can lead to AC swapping more than a kardashians marrage" can be appeased with the knowledge that with a twice in a lifetime change (swap once, with an option to swap once more, back) that there is still a backbone (however bendy) in the notion that AC's and the choices regarding them still mean something.

 

Also, it allows that small amount of flexibility in offering those who do wish to swap AC's the chance to do so. Of course, there are some arguments which ring true such as achievements and event items (rackgoul plague crystals) which a reroll simply cannot accommodate for. With that in mind, I do (however reluctantly) see an honest and legitimate reason for want of an AC change. That said, I will fight tooth and nail to see the number of changes minimised hehe.

 

Well said IMO. I'm still on the fence. I fail to see how anyone can state this definitely will not have a negative impact on current classes in the game that become undesired. My worry is that certain classes will stagnate because of poor initial design and lack of interest due to the availability of an AC change option.

 

As it stands now those that chose that AC but perhaps do not enjoy it are vested in improving it. If they are allowed to change AC that may remove that advocacy, and I'm not sure that's good for the game.

 

At the same time I see little harm in allowing an EARLY AC change shortly after the first choice is made. I'm just not real fond of the late AC change idea.

[branmakmuffin]

Those opposed to AC change have lost sight of the fact that TOR is a game. Laziness, hard work, earning your way, those are irrelevant concepts in this context. From players' perspective, only one thing matters: enjoyment. From BWEA's perspective, only one thing matters: making money.

[Ratajack]

Those opposed to AC change have lost sight of the fact that TOR is a game. Laziness, hard work, earning your way, those are irrelevant concepts in this context. From players' perspective, only one thing matters: enjoyment. From BWEA's perspective, only one thing matters: making money.

 

You are correct that TOR is a game. The concepts of laziness, hard work and earning what you want are not irrelevant in any way. Quite the contrary, those concepts are as important in a game as they are in real life. I won't even hazard a guess as to how often the desire for instant gratification or "I need it now" bleeds over from the game world into the real world. I only know that each and every day I come face to face with that same attitude more and more.

 

It may be the example someone in this thread used earlier-the person who drives in the carpool lane alone, knowing that they are breaking the law, but justifying it to themselves with the excuse that they are in a hurry, they don't want to sit in traffic, or just the "it doesn't affect anyone else" excuse. It may be the person who is fully capable of working, but refuses to work because it's easier to collect welfare. It might even be that co-worker who does shoddy work that you have to go back and make right, yet gets paid the same as you.

 

Let's be honest here. Nothing about this game is hard work. It only requires some time and a little effort to obtain what you want. If you want something enough, you should be willing to put forth at least a little time and a modicum of effort to obtain it.

[PeterTLJr]

Why do people keep trying to compare WoW classes to SWTOR classes? There not the same, quit using "well WoW didn't allow you to change classes" nobody cares, this isn't WoW. In WoW if you rolled a warrior, you could play any spec you wanted without having to make a new character, in this game if you rolled a knight you have to play 2 knights to play all specs.

 

That being said, I'd like to see AC switching, with some restrictions. Only so many per character and time limit in between. I'm not a big fan of my 55 vanguard and wish I could switch to a commando, and I'd have no problem rerolling if what I accomplished on my vanguard switched over, mounts, titles, achievements, gear, ect, would switch over as well.

[Ratajack]

Why do people keep trying to compare WoW classes to SWTOR classes? There not the same, quit using "well WoW didn't allow you to change classes" nobody cares, this isn't WoW. In WoW if you rolled a warrior, you could play any spec you wanted without having to make a new character, in this game if you rolled a knight you have to play 2 knights to play all specs.

 

That being said, I'd like to see AC switching, with some restrictions. Only so many per character and time limit in between. I'm not a big fan of my 55 vanguard and wish I could switch to a commando, and I'd have no problem rerolling if what I accomplished on my vanguard switched over, mounts, titles, achievements, gear, ect, would switch over as well.

 

You can play all three specs of whichever class you choose. If you choose to play vanguard, you can play all three vanguard specs. You cannot play all three commando specs unless you roll a commando, as that IS a DIFFERENT class.

 

The difference in this game is that you don't actually choose your class until at least level 10. Can you reach max level as a trooper without actually choosing an AC or "final class"? Yes, you can but you will be denying yourself a lot of class skills.

[PeterTLJr]

You can play all three specs of whichever class you choose. If you choose to play vanguard, you can play all three vanguard specs. You cannot play all three commando specs unless you roll a commando, as that IS a DIFFERENT class.

 

The difference in this game is that you don't actually choose your class until at least level 10. Can you reach max level as a trooper without actually choosing an AC or "final class"? Yes, you can but you will be denying yourself a lot of class skills.

 

But we're talking about advance class switching not regular class switching. It's 2 different things. Vanguards and Commandos share some abilities that come from being a TROOPER because TROOPER is the class. It's the same for every class, each class shares some abilities between the 2 AC's, it wouldn't break any part of the game by allowing people to switch. If I switched from a vanguard to a commando, I still throw grenades, I still shoot a gun, I still use the same companions, it doesn't break story line, the only thing that changes is how my character is played. In any game you're allowed to do this, switch in between your general class.

[Ratajack]

But we're talking about advance class switching not regular class switching. It's 2 different things. Vanguards and Commandos share some abilities that come from being a TROOPER because TROOPER is the class. It's the same for every class, each class shares some abilities between the 2 AC's, it wouldn't break any part of the game by allowing people to switch. If I switched from a vanguard to a commando, I still throw grenades, I still shoot a gun, I still use the same companions, it doesn't break story line, the only thing that changes is how my character is played. In any game you're allowed to do this, switch in between your general class.

 

No. Trooper is the base class. Once you choose your AC, you are no longer just a trooper. You class becomes vanguard or commando. If you doubt me, do a /who, check your guild roster or just mouse over a vanguard or commando. Do you see any class listed as trooper-vanguard or trooper-commando? NO. You see vanguards and commandos because those are their classes, not trooper. This is why the game advises each and every player several times that the choice is permanent and there is NO going back. This has been backed up by the devs stating that the AC's are different classes.

 

Think of it as tree. The trunk is your base class, in this case trooper. The base class branches out into two separate and distinct classes( the AC's), much like the trunk separates into the branches of the tree. Once the trunk separates, the branches continue off in different directions, and do not meet up again. Once you start up one branch, in order to get to the other branch, you have to go back down to the point of separation and then go back up the other branch. That is not possible in this game. If you wish to see where that other branch might lead, you have to plant another tree, or roll another trooper to see what the commando is like, if you chose vanguard with the first trooper.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Ratajack