ETA on Advanced Class change?

[PeterTLJr]

dude just give up. you lack the ability to understand that the class is a vanguard, not a trooper. That is a fact there is no disputing it.

 

yes I get it, you told me I lack the ability to understand blah blah blah like 20 times now, come back when you actually have a valid argument here.

 

btw, the class is still trooper, not vanguard.

[PeterTLJr]

Bioware should simply implement a couple of Advanced Class specific missions, meaning a Sage would get an entirely different mission from a Shadow, and a Mercenary would get a radically different mission from a Powertech. Give an advanced-class specific companion as a final reward (it would certainly help balance out some advanced classes if done right), and Bioware will have the perfect excuse to kill these threads forever, by the ONLY excuse those wanting AC changes have for it. The stories will no longer be the same, and choice of companions became different as well.

 

The best part of it: people HAVE been asking for more story content. So that's 2 birds with one stone!

 

I agree, if advance classes were meant to be treated as separate classes, they should have some tweeks to each story to make it feel that way.

They should have done this right from the start. I don't see them doing this anytime soon though, maybe in a future expansion theyll make it so your AC actually comes into play with the story.

[PeterTLJr]

I'm with this guy. Essentially changing trees means you need to learn new rotations and skills.

 

Advanced class change means you need to research a little, much like a tree change. In fact every time I've changed trees I've gone through the talents, reviewed others builds and rotations and then experimented.

 

I think anyone who doesn't agree this is a valid point has a very narrow vision. An advanced class change would be great in my opinion for the sole reason that this game is story driven. Having to redo a story because you want a different advanced class would suck, at least for me. While I may do this in the future, it's not really my thing. I'm not really into the grind that some people are so obsessed with and the epeen that it supposedly allows them to tote.

 

thank you!

[LordArtemis]

Lol, I didn't stop trying, If they offer the advanced class change. I guarantee it was not the choice of the developers, but EA telling them to implement it for money in the form of cartel coins.

 

If they implement this it will ruin the game.

 

Fair enough if you feel that way, but I don't exactly agree.

 

I don't think it would ruin the game, but depending on how it's implemented I believe it could have a negative impact on which classes folks will play, and that might make some classes virtually disappear from the end game.

Edited June 10, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

you still do not get it... they put it that way because they do not want to ever say it will never happen so they make the answer political.

 

They will not do AC swaps they know it will ruin the game.

 

Complete and pure speculation. It seems you are the one that does not get it...you simply made it mean something that supports your view instead of simply taking it for it's word.

 

It is silly to claim an interpretation is more likely accurate then the verbatim meaning. There is no inference there...it's meaning is crystal clear. That meaning is more likely than any conspiracy anyone may concoct.

 

That does not mean it is ironclad...he did say it was likely in the future...he didn't say it was a definite. But to claim it was doublespeak and any other contention is dead wrong is just ludicrous.

 

Could you be right? Sure. Is it likely your right? No.

 

Proof? The statement itself.

Edited June 10, 2013 by LordArtemis

[PeterTLJr]

Fair enough if you feel that way, but I don't exactly agree.

 

I don't think it would ruin the game, but depending on how it's implemented I believe it could have a negative impact on which classes folks will play, and that might make some classes virtually disappear from the end game.

 

It's better then PEOPLE actually disappearing from end game. But seriously, I dont think we would see any advance classes disappear from end game, but who knows.

Edited June 10, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[LordArtemis]

It's better then PEOPLE actually disappearing from end game. But seriously, I dont think we would see any advance classes disappear from end game, but who knows.

 

I really don't have any evidence of this...it's just a reason some folks brought up as a negative, and it seemed plausible. Its really the one thing that still gives me pause about throwing in my support for late game AC change.

 

I have little issue with early game change as long as it is shortly after the initial choice is made.

[PeterTLJr]

I really don't have any evidence of this...it's just a reason some folks brought up as a negative, and it seemed plausible. Its really the one thing that still gives me pause about throwing in my support for late game AC change.

 

I have little issue with early game change as long as it is shortly after the initial choice is made.

 

The only thing I can think of is, if they allow advance class respecs, and it causes an entire advance class to almost disappear from end game, thats on EA/Bioware for not making that advance class more useful at end game, not ours for not playing it. As far as making it an early game change, I don't see it making much of a difference. Heres what I think, allow people to change AC as much as they want before level 50, it gives people the option to fully play around with the base class and figure out what they want to do at end game. Then at 50+ (or 55) make it still an option, but with more restrictions, put a timer on it (you can only do it once every lets say 6 months just an example), only allow so many changes per character, make it a little pricey so people have to actually think about it before just tossing money into it, ect.

[Bomyne]

yes I get it, you told me I lack the ability to understand blah blah blah like 20 times now, come back when you actually have a valid argument here.

 

btw, the class is still trooper, not vanguard.

 

No, your class is not a trooper. That is the archtype. Once you choose your class at level ten, archtype becomes irrelevant.

[PeterTLJr]

No, your class is not a trooper. That is the archtype. Once you choose your class at level ten, archtype becomes irrelevant.

 

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

 

I just checked, they are still the classes.

 

Lets pretend your right though, and I pick trooper to start out with, but at level 10 I decide to go vanguard, your saying i'm no longer a trooper right? I still get abilities from being a trooper, and all troopers share those abilities, just because I choose vanguard and someone chooses commando, now means we both arent troopers?

Edited June 10, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[chimex]

The only thing I can think of is, if they allow advance class respecs, and it causes an entire advance class to almost disappear from end game, thats on EA/Bioware for not making that advance class more useful at end game, not ours for not playing it. As far as making it an early game change, I don't see it making much of a difference. Heres what I think, allow people to change AC as much as they want before level 50, it gives people the option to fully play around with the base class and figure out what they want to do at end game. Then at 50+ (or 55) make it still an option, but with more restrictions, put a timer on it (you can only do it once every lets say 6 months just an example), only allow so many changes per character, make it a little pricey so people have to actually think about it before just tossing money into it, ect.

 

Personally, I don't agree with the as many times as you like before max lvl. I see what you're aiming for, but there should still be restrictions on it.

 

As for the max level restrictions, you have some nice ideas there. Personally, I would prefer a twice in a lifetime (change once, then one more to change back after a lockout time if you don't like it) =, something I mentioned earlier in the thread. However, the 6 month lockout time isn't too game changing. however, I dislike the idea of simply making it pricey, for two main reasons. 1) it may begin an inflated cost on an already pricey micro transaction market this game has. 2) This will certainly not stop those who have tons of money and WILL throw it at the problem (maybe, they want to be in a raid, but it only has a spot for a tank, therefore, they swap their sorc to a sin to get said slot).

 

While this does not seem too horrific at first, and can be called to be completely the choice of players, this also prevent people from learning work arounds for the problems their advanced classes have. Why bother trying to figure something out, when you can just throw money at the problem, amirite?

 

Secondly, this opens up another pandoras box when it comes to situations such as loot drops. Imagine a guardian rolling on medium armour because he/she "is only a guardian for the next few days. They'll be back to playing their sentinel by the weekend" I imagine most people (however silently) would feel slighted by this if it meant their chances of gaining said loot was significantly reduced. Having a long lock out timer (like you said, 6 months) would prevent this black hole from opening up.

 

Of course, many will say right now, that would not be a problem. Only, it will be a problem, just look at the companion fiasco in regards to loot drops. Do we really need another tension point added because people can AC swap any time they fancy? I believe (my own unasked for opinion here) issues like that, along with pvp wz AC swaps would cost more subs than if EA/BW decided not to implement AC swapping. After all, the status quo is that AC's cannot be swapped, and it is not costing subs.

[Bomyne]

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

 

I just checked, they are still the classes.

 

You can sprout that page as much as you want. Wouldn't be the first time the documentation of a game doesn't line up with the mechanics.

 

But you know what? Let's allow class change. Should we give free aim gear when someone changes from Jedi Guardian to Commando?

[PeterTLJr]

You can sprout that page as much as you want. Wouldn't be the first time the documentation of a game doesn't line up with the mechanics.

 

But you know what? Let's allow class change. Should we give free aim gear when someone changes from Jedi Guardian to Commando?

 

This is my point exactly, some people who are disagreeing with AC changes are thinking of it as whole CLASS changes, its not, its simply like changing specs in any other game.

[Bomyne]

This is my point exactly, some people who are disagreeing with AC changes are thinking of it as whole CLASS changes, its not, its simply like changing specs in any other game.

 

I change specs all the time in TOR. Just the other day I changed my commando's spec from Combat Medic to Gunnery.

[PeterTLJr]

Personally, I don't agree with the as many times as you like before max lvl. I see what you're aiming for, but there should still be restrictions on it.

 

As for the max level restrictions, you have some nice ideas there. Personally, I would prefer a twice in a lifetime (change once, then one more to change back after a lockout time if you don't like it) =, something I mentioned earlier in the thread. However, the 6 month lockout time isn't too game changing. however, I dislike the idea of simply making it pricey, for two main reasons. 1) it may begin an inflated cost on an already pricey micro transaction market this game has. 2) This will certainly not stop those who have tons of money and WILL throw it at the problem (maybe, they want to be in a raid, but it only has a spot for a tank, therefore, they swap their sorc to a sin to get said slot).

 

While this does not seem too horrific at first, and can be called to be completely the choice of players, this also prevent people from learning work arounds for the problems their advanced classes have. Why bother trying to figure something out, when you can just throw money at the problem, amirite?

 

Secondly, this opens up another pandoras box when it comes to situations such as loot drops. Imagine a guardian rolling on medium armour because he/she "is only a guardian for the next few days. They'll be back to playing their sentinel by the weekend" I imagine most people (however silently) would feel slighted by this if it meant their chances of gaining said loot was significantly reduced. Having a long lock out timer (like you said, 6 months) would prevent this black hole from opening up.

 

Of course, many will say right now, that would not be a problem. Only, it will be a problem, just look at the companion fiasco in regards to loot drops. Do we really need another tension point added because people can AC swap any time they fancy? I believe (my own unasked for opinion here) issues like that, along with pvp wz AC swaps would cost more subs than if EA/BW decided not to implement AC swapping. After all, the status quo is that AC's cannot be swapped, and it is not costing subs.

 

There will always be pros and cons to every feature that is suggested, they shouldn't rule this out just because of loot, its a simple fix, if you are a guardian and your doing a FP, you shouldnt be allowed to hit need on a medium piece. As far as operations go, that is out of EA/BWs control, the raid leader decides how loot is decided.

[PeterTLJr]

I change specs all the time in TOR. Just the other day I changed my commando's spec from Combat Medic to Gunnery.

 

Back to what I posted earlier, skill trees dont make the class, the class is the class. If I went from vanguard to commando, and gain a couple different skill trees, I'm still the trooper. Keep in mind every class shares 1 skill tree, theres only 2 unique ones between each AC.

[gorstram]

Back to what I posted earlier, skill trees dont make the class, the class is the class. If I went from vanguard to commando, and gain a couple different skill trees, I'm still the trooper. Keep in mind every class shares 1 skill tree, theres only 2 unique ones between each AC.

 

This gentleman is a professional at arguing semantics. But methinks I must respond in the negative to your postulation that advanced class swaps are a good idea. As mentioned in my previous posts, this change would have a disastrous impact on gear balance and fairness. A commando venturing into a flashpoint with a vanguard cousin should not compete for certain items such as rifles/assault cannons, or defense/healing gear. But with advanced class swaps, these cousins would compete with one another for gear that fell within the other class' bailiwick.

 

Why would anyone wish to cause this kind of dramatic competition for gear when a peaceful status quo is much preferred?

[Anzel]

If the server transfers are 1800 Cartel Coins my guess is that AC swaps will be like 600-1,000 Cartel Coins. Just a guess though.

[LordArtemis]

Why would anyone wish to cause this kind of dramatic competition for gear when a peaceful status quo is much preferred?

 

What is going on right now in Flashpoints and Operations couldn't even come close to being considered a "peaceful status quo" IMO.....at least not in PUGs. Premades perhaps, but then that probably wouldn't be an issue in a premade anyway.

[drorold]

you rally not going to rport about it im rally need ac change

[branmakmuffin]

dude you lack the ability to understand that you are wrong. The advanced class is you class for the game. that is what the devs have said and guess what they devs will always be right.

Which means if they change the game to allow AC change, that will be right, because the devs are always right.

 

This is why way at the beginning of this I said we could argue the origins, history, and evolution of "Game/gaming" or we could just agree that there must be some element of competition in order for something to be considered a "game". You responded by ignoring that point (which really is trolling) and berating me. You still ignore the point.

 

[...]

 

So we can see there are both competition and non-competition related uses of the word.

Therefore "game" does not necessarily include the concept of "competition." You should perhaps look up the word "inherent" at this point. You should also look up "self-contradictory."

 

we could just agree that there must be some element of competition in order for something to be considered a "game"

 

So we can see there are both competition and non-competition related uses of the word [game]

Edited June 10, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Icebergy]

If the server transfers are 1800 Cartel Coins my guess is that AC swaps will be like 600-1,000 Cartel Coins. Just a guess though.

 

They would have to be closer to 6,000-10,000 for it to be acceptable.

[branmakmuffin]

They would have to be closer to 6,000-10,000 for it to be acceptable.

That's just your passive-aggressive way of saying "Don't allow it at all."

[Icebergy]

That's just your passive-aggressive way of saying "Don't allow it at all."

 

Exactly.

[chimex]

There will always be pros and cons to every feature that is suggested, they shouldn't rule this out just because of loot, its a simple fix, if you are a guardian and your doing a FP, you shouldnt be allowed to hit need on a medium piece. As far as operations go, that is out of EA/BWs control, the raid leader decides how loot is decided.

 

Well yes, you are right on that point. No matter what the situation, there will always be pro's and con's. That said, this does not excuse every idea put on the table. If an idea will throw up more issues than it will solve, methinks the idea should be reconsidered.

 

You hit upon a point rather well actually (unfortunately, I don't intend to use it to support your argument). Designs to resolve the problems AC changes would bring. The point is that weather or not people want AC changes (limitless or otherwise) the game in its current state just simply is not ready for that level of implementation.

 

That being, there are no stops for people to roll on gear because they can AC swap (not to mention, as you say, OPS loot distribution!), there is no buffer to cull the time and cost of changing your entire gearset (Guardian to Sentinel for example), to name but a few of the already mentioned issues AC swapping could bring. Maybe someday this game will be in a better position to implement AC swapping, but that day is far down the line. (Tbh, I don't know about that, I left my magic 8-ball in my other jacket)

 

Secondly, you say that stops could be implemented to prevent people from rolling on loot which is not their current AC. Well here is where the AC swap argument becomes hypocritical. The main basis for AC swapping is through choice and convenience of the player. Well, by saying "ok, with AC swap, we're going to gimp loot rolling" is removing one choice, in favor of another. I'm sorry, but I personally cannot gen on board with a proposal which takes away player choice in order to fulfill a choice which we have been told is permanent.

Edited June 10, 2013 by chimex