ETA on Advanced Class change?

[TridusSWTOR]

I could live with an early AC swap (maybe pre-30) but I would oppose one at or near the level cap. With all the threads around about "Noobs in endgame" and personal experience I think that a swap that late would be chaos, with all the people in endgame content playing basically brand new toons. They should have at least the 30-55 experience under their belt before endgame at least. I would rather not see one at all, but whatever, I just think a swap around 30ish could qualm some of the arguments in this thread, with both sides compromising.

 

This actually seems reasonable. I mean I still think getting to level 45 lets you fully give you the tools to learn a class. But forcing someone to level from 30 to 55 is a fair deal. Good suggestion and good post, I hope it gets added to the list of comprises or solutions.

[TridusSWTOR]

Perhaps because using the same tired arguments that have habitually lost isn't going to go anywhere. If I didn't like participating in this discussion I would have sent the link list of related threads to the mods and had this one shut down.

 

I'm not 100% diehard against it, but if it ever happens it needs to be done right. Low level respec, and multiple respec scenarios will always be met with a wall of resistance.

 

That can be applied to both sides. That's why it's baseless when someone says "Oh you guys could be doing X instead of typing on these forums." Since, you know...there is such a thing as multitasking.

 

These forums are for discussion, waving your hand saying people should stop posting kinda defeats the purpose of the whole forum idea. That's why you need to stop using those habitually lost arguments and start coming up with new ones.

[makallitank]

How is switching your advanced class any different from switching from a full on damage-spec to a full on heal-spec?

[LordArtemis]

This actually seems reasonable. I mean I still think getting to level 45 lets you fully give you the tools to learn a class. But forcing someone to level from 30 to 55 is a fair deal. Good suggestion and good post, I hope it gets added to the list of comprises or solutions.

 

I think that one of the options listed is level 30, if not Ill check the list and add it.

[Ratajack]

How is switching your advanced class any different from switching from a full on damage-spec to a full on heal-spec?

 

When you change your spec from DPS to heal, do you change your weapon or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you change from melee to ranged?

 

When you change from DPS to tank, do you need to change your weapon, armor or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you have to switch from ranged DPS to melee tank?

 

 

Changing your spec within a class is one thing, but changing your class is another. Your AC is your class.

[Propane]

When the EA money barrel gets low, they will bring it to the Cartel Market.

[makallitank]

When you change your spec from DPS to heal, do you change your weapon or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you change from melee to ranged?

 

When you change from DPS to tank, do you need to change your weapon, armor or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you have to switch from ranged DPS to melee tank?

 

Um, you guys see this as a bad thing?

 

In WoW, most classes change drastically when they switch their specs.

 

Take Paladins for example.

You're Holy (Healer). You use intellect gear. You use an intellect one-hander and an offhand.

You want to switch to DPS.

You change your gear to strength gear. You change your weapon to a two-hander.

Or you change to Tank.

You change your gear to defensive strength gear. You change your weapon to a defensive one-hander and a shield.

 

Nothing horrible happens during that process of changing specs. You just need to gear up for them.

 

Why would this be detrimental to TOR?

Edited July 30, 2013 by makallitank

[LordArtemis]

Yea, comparisons to WoW can be made in some ways, but respecs bring gear and weapon changes, as well as different abilities.

 

That is, of course, due to how specs are designed in the game. As far as I am aware WoW does not have advanced specializations of class.

[MajikMyst]

Yea, comparisons to WoW can be made in some ways, but respecs bring gear and weapon changes, as well as different abilities.

 

That is, of course, due to how specs are designed in the game. As far as I am aware WoW does not have advanced specializations of class.

 

Which is irrelevant.. Sorry.. WOW does not need an AC to be a valid comparison.. Advanced is just a word.. We all know that we are talking about a players class..

 

At least some of us do..

[Soluss]

How is switching your advanced class any different from switching from a full on damage-spec to a full on heal-spec?

 

Possibly different and definitely different playstyle. Healing/DPS is pretty much the same. You are ranged and either healing from range and probably dps too or you are DPS from range and possibly tossing the same off heals too. Switch AC... you are now a tank with completely different gear and playstyle or dps with completely different playstyle.

[MajikMyst]

Um, you guys see this as a bad thing?

 

In WoW, most classes change drastically when they switch their specs.

 

Take Paladins for example.

You're Holy (Healer). You use intellect gear. You use an intellect one-hander and an offhand.

You want to switch to DPS.

You change your gear to strength gear. You change your weapon to a two-hander.

Or you change to Tank.

You change your gear to defensive strength gear. You change your weapon to a defensive one-hander and a shield.

 

Nothing horrible happens during that process of changing specs. You just need to gear up for them.

 

Why would this be detrimental to TOR?

 

To use your example.. A paladin is a paladin.. They all have the same mechanics.. They all DPS the same way.. All that changes are the important stats.. For tanks you need mitigation stats.. For DPS you need DPS stats.. For heals you need DPS stats and a few others to help with cast speed and mana regen.. All paladins are mele when it comes to DPS..

 

They all wear the same gear type.. Heavy armor.. They all use a sword.. They all hold a shield.. Unless you are Ret and then you can hold a 2handed sword.. Ret can also hold a sword and shield..

 

Pretty much all of the AC's are fundamentally different.. Whether it be gear type, weapon type or anything else.. The stradegy used to play each AC is very different.. How you play a Sentinel will not work for a Guardian..

 

Paladins, only really differ in that one is harder to kill, the tank.. One can heal itself, the holy paly.. And one does insane damage if played right.. Retadin.. If you have played one paly then you have for the most part played them all, except for a few minor differences..

 

A shadow can stealth and is a mele character.. A sage does not stealth and is ranged.. Exact opposites in many respects..

[Quraswren]

My WOW druid says let AC swapping happen if your argument for it "not happening" is gear and different play style (especially if were using a WOW comparison) Edited July 30, 2013 by Quraswren

[Dragores]

A shadow can stealth and is a mele character.. A sage does not stealth and is ranged.. Exact opposites in many respects..

That's a stupid example.

Druids can be stealth melee dps, ranged caster dps, melee tank or healers ...

The problem about this change is that you would effectively have 4 different classes with 6skilltrees, which really is not enough.

[branmakmuffin]

Possibly different and definitely different playstyle. Healing/DPS is pretty much the same. You are ranged and either healing from range and probably dps too or you are DPS from range and possibly tossing the same off heals too. Switch AC... you are now a tank with completely different gear and playstyle or dps with completely different playstyle.

Therefore by your reasoning, switching from DPS spec to tank spec is a switch to a completely different play style.

 

This is a terrible idea that would trivialise the whole achievement of the leveling process. I hope it never happens.

Second sentence, fine. First sentence, hyperbole.

Edited July 30, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[TUXs]

You can say "they went left instead of right" or that they chose an OP class that later got nerfed, but those are not compelling reasons to allow class changes.

Maybe not to you, but it is to me. MMOs are fluid and I can understand players disliking massive changes to their class (like in 2.0). If switching ACs kept someone playing longer, how can you possibly be against it? It's a boon to the economy as well as players are forced to buy new equipment.

 

And the "compelling" reason you'd like is - it's none of your flipping business! Unless YOU wanna pay their subscription, you have absolutely no say in what someone should be. If they would like to switch to enjoy the game, mind your own business...you aren't impacted and you have absolutely NO valid reasons behind your insane desire to punish people for wanting to try another AC.

 

I've never seen so many people with control issues...geezus...it's just a game.

 

To use your example.. A paladin is a paladin..

And a Trooper is a Trooper - all base skills identical. Your point is moot. And please, stick to SWTOR, this has nothing to do with W0W. Players will adjust and you're free to stay true to your beliefs. Play your toons, I'll play mine (mind your own business).

[LordArtemis]

Which is irrelevant.. Sorry.. WOW does not need an AC to be a valid comparison.. Advanced is just a word.. We all know that we are talking about a players class..

 

At least some of us do..

 

Which is entirely relevant.

 

I said it could be compared to WoW in some ways, but pointed out that respec in this game is different than respec in WoW which is a fact.

 

In that game your spec is not considered your class. In this game your spec is not considered your class. However, your AC IS CONSIDERED YOUR CLASS. WoW does not have an AC so your base class is your class.

 

And that is why one can compare WoW's setup to SWTOR directly from class to AC. They are both considered classes.

 

Why I must constantly explain posts to you is beyond me.

 

You might want to take some time to think about a post, why that post exists and what it could be in response to before you post some kind of silly response.

 

Your continued attempt to engage me in conversation by making nonsensical responses to my posts baffles me. I have to wonder why it is so important to you to have a conversation with me. It is rather odd behavior.

Edited July 30, 2013 by LordArtemis

[makallitank]

If ACs were truly their own classes, they wouldn't share the same base class with another, and they would have their own storylines.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

If ACs were truly their own classes, they wouldn't share the same base class with another, and they would have their own storylines.

 

If cars and trucks were truly different they would share the same 4 wheels, basic engine design, and most mechanic other than body.

[TUXs]

If cars and trucks were truly different they would share the same 4 wheels, basic engine design, and most mechanic other than body.

Wrong forum? What the hell does that comment have to do with this topic? Are you just trolling? And that analogy is just terrible...makes NO sense whatsoever.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

I'm still hoping the ETA on this is still the 12th of Never.

[Hockaday]

Wrong forum? What the hell does that comment have to do with this topic? Are you just trolling? And that analogy is just terrible...makes NO sense whatsoever.

 

Actually that analogy is perfect. ACs are in fact, separate classes. To think differently...is insane. Because you share a stat, does not mean you are in fact the same class. Pally and SK share the same base class, doesn't mean they're the same class.

 

Don't know why this is so hard for people.

[Yungscion]

Actually that analogy is perfect. ACs are in fact, separate classes. To think differently...is insane. Because you share a stat, does not mean you are in fact the same class. Pally and SK share the same base class, doesn't mean they're the same class.

 

Don't know why this is so hard for people.

 

To be fair they share:

Parent Class

Companions

Starship

Base stat

1 Talent tree

Certain set of abilities

Storyline

 

This is were the confusion and desire stem from. The parent class vs advanced class muddied the waters on exactly what was your class and what was your specialization. Am I an Imperial Agent who specializes in stealth and medical technology to either heal or dps, or am I an Operative that heal or dps, verses being an Imperial Agent who specializes in long distance kills using my blaster or probes, or a Sniper who kill stuff either with a rifle or probes. This muddies the water and leaves it open to interpretation.

 

The original devs interpretation was that you are the later (Sniper or Operative) not just a different flavor of Agent. But he is gone and mostly from what I understand that was due to his inflexibility on issue that a lot of people (players included) did not agree on, and the new devs have mentioned they are interested in revisiting the interpretation of class in this game.

[ekwalizer]

To be fair they share:

Parent Class

Companions

Starship

Base stat

1 Talent tree

Certain set of abilities

Storyline

 

This is were the confusion and desire stem from. The parent class vs advanced class muddied the waters on exactly what was your class and what was your specialization. Am I an Imperial Agent who specializes in stealth and medical technology to either heal or dps, or am I an Operative that heal or dps, verses being an Imperial Agent who specializes in long distance kills using my blaster or probes, or a Sniper who kill stuff either with a rifle or probes. This muddies the water and leaves it open to interpretation.

 

The original devs interpretation was that you are the later (Sniper or Operative) not just a different flavor of Agent. But he is gone and mostly from what I understand that was due to his inflexibility on issue that a lot of people (players included) did not agree on, and the new devs have mentioned they are interested in revisiting the interpretation of class in this game.

 

There is no PARENT CLASS.

Everyone has a STORY and an ADVANCED CLASS.

Each story contains 2 Classes.

Every individual Story shares a ship and companions.

Bounty Hunter is not a Class, it is a Story. Mercenary is a Class.

The vast majority of Story specific abilities are higher versions of what you learned from 1-10.

 

The advanced classes are TOTAL class systems by themselves. You can't think of other games where you have little offshoots. Your Advanced Class choice very much defines how your character plays from the moment you choose it. Their impact is more akin to that of a different class in other MMOs than that of a different 'spec'. A Sith Sorcerer is very, very different from a Sith Assassin.

http://swtorftw.blogspot.com/2011/08/developer-quotes-regaurding-advance.html

[TUXs]

There is no PARENT CLASS.

Everyone has a STORY and an ADVANCED CLASS.

Each story contains 2 Classes.

Every individual Story shares a ship and companions.

Bounty Hunter is not a Class, it is a Story. Mercenary is a Class.

The vast majority of Story specific abilities are higher versions of what you learned from 1-10.

 

http://swtorftw.blogspot.com/2011/08/developer-quotes-regaurding-advance.html

 

Daniel Erickson was exaggerating quite a bit in that snippet. We all know better now - hell, classes share a tree even - an Assault Commando has EXACTLY the same skill tree as an Assault Vanguard.

 

There's no valid reason not to allow players to swap ACs...Daniel isn't even with Bioware anymore - his false statement shouldn't prevent them from doing something good for the game.

[paowee]

When the EA money barrel gets low, they will bring it to the Cartel Market.

i lol'd.

 

on topic.. i think if you want to play a different class you should reroll an alt.

 

This is a terrible idea that would trivialise the whole achievement of the leveling process. I hope it never happens

Edited July 30, 2013 by paowee