Why did Jeff Hickman lie to subscribers about the future of the game?

[Xenith]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

The only way BW can do this is if they hold true to their word. As the OP said, it's crystal clear from the quote that they haven't. Honor what you say. Mistake or not.

[DarthFamine]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

 

I'm willing to give you time to fix this mistake.

 

but not unlimited time.

 

 

Thanks for your response

[Applicator]

Thats funny I played on a AMD machine at launch I have upgraded to I7 3600 and still have the same issues with a new PC.

 

And yes it is their fault that they haven't fixed them. This is the only MMO I have ever played that can't get the push button ability works thing right.

 

But keep on keepin on bro nothing to see here move along game is fine.

 

...and I've played on 3 different machines on most classes and never experienced it.

 

Back on topic, there are way too many sooks out there who think they are getting ripped off. It's $15 a month, 50c a day, it really is cheap and they do provide a good service especially with the new cadence of patches.

[LordArtemis]

I'm willing to give you time to fix this mistake.

 

but not unlimited time.

 

 

Thanks for your response

 

I like this post. Simple, to the point, reasonable. I would give the same sentiment.

[Tekeda]

...and I've played on 3 different machines on most classes and never experienced it.

 

Back on topic, there are way too many sooks out there who think they are getting ripped off. It's $15 a month, 50c a day, it really is cheap and they do provide a good service especially with the new cadence of patches.

There are thousands of people who have experienced it. Multiple threads prove that.

[dayhak]

Because like all other bioware dev's/talking heads he is in over his head and doesn't know any better.

 

This is my first and last Bioware title, that company is garbage.

 

This... Lost all faith in bioware... After this and Mass Effect 3, gonna be a very long time before I buy Bioware ever again...

 

Anytime EA is involved you should expect disappointment and to be lied to... For good reason they have been named the worst company ever 2 years in a row

[Tiaa]

People are paying $15 -/+ to keep old features and get discounts in the Cartel Market.

[avethewavery]

I appreciate the honest response. Not a lot of people around here do, but thanks for being sincere. Some people tend to forget the human side of things when they're looking at it from behind a computer screen.

[LeonBraun]

The way to fix this would be to amend the cartel coin monthly allowance for each sub plan.

 

1 month sub: 500 coins per month

3 month sub: 1500 coins per month

6 month sub: 3000 coins per month

 

There, fixed.

 

This would allow people with greater term subs to be able to be in a position to get more CC items per month based on their subscription commitment in a more appropriate way.

 

This would also encourage people in a much greater way to make a more substantial fixed sub commitment to the game. This kind of plan is a no brainer and truly win-win for everyone involved in the game.

[avethewavery]

The way to fix this would be to amend the cartel coin monthly allowance for each sub plan.

 

1 month sub: 500 coins per month

3 month sub: 1500 coins per month

6 month sub: 3000 coins per month

 

There, fixed.

 

This would allow people with greater term subs to be able to be in a position to get more CC items per month based on their subscription commitment in a more appropriate way.

 

This would also encourage people in a much greater way to make a more substantial fixed sub commitment to the game. This kind of plan is a no brainer and truly win-win for everyone involved in the game.

 

That's...actually a decent idea. Though I don't think that any company would be willing to give out that much in-game currency, I think you're definitely on to something with tiered cartel coins.

What do you know? Someone said something smart in these forums. Who would have thought the day would come?

[Thaed]

The way to fix this would be to amend the cartel coin monthly allowance for each sub plan.

 

1 month sub: 500 coins per month

3 month sub: 1500 coins per month

6 month sub: 3000 coins per month

 

There, fixed.

 

This would allow people with greater term subs to be able to be in a position to get more CC items per month based on their subscription commitment in a more appropriate way.

 

This would also encourage people in a much greater way to make a more substantial fixed sub commitment to the game. This kind of plan is a no brainer and truly win-win for everyone involved in the game.

 

I like the idea of rewarding commitment, I disagree with your suggested implementation. I've been subbed since day 1, but I don't like committing large amount of money at a time. Those who purchase 6-month subs already get a monetary discount and additional CCs per month, you could say that subbing monthly for the same period of time is actually more supportive of the game.

 

A better system, to me, would be increasing the monthly stipend based on how long a person has been subbed for. After 3 months, increase stipend by x, after 6 months, increase stipend by y, etc. It encourages commitment without demanding it.

 

Also, 3000 CCs per month will never, ever happen, unless prices on the cartel market rise dramatically to compensate. I could see it capping out at ~1500 CCs after two years. Maybe. If they were feeling generous.

[LeonBraun]

Currently the tiered CC system is 500,600,700 CC per month.

 

First of all, 500 is a joke. One can buy a cartel pack and a few perks per month with this. 600 and 700 are not substantially better and really offer no incentive for these levels. Hell, it would take someone 2-3 months at this rate just to buy a single armour set for a toon or companion.

 

Even if the monthy CC allowance were bumped to 500,1000,1500, this would seem to me to be a significant enough reason for people to make longer term sub commitments to the game.

 

We're talking here basically the equivalent of 1 complimentary armour set per month (a virtual item bought with virtual currency) in return for a significantly greater guaranteed REAL monetary commitment from the players. This should not be rocket science for the devs of TOR.

[Beaunidle]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

There's a very easy few measures to address these concerns.

 

1. Deliver on promises, make sure the delivery is in a timely manner. A classic example being the subscription page in November promised a free name change per month to subscribers, that hasn't been delivered and the name change mechanic HAS been implemented albeit 5+ months later.

2. Don't think that changing the text of promised or mentioned things allows you to change the promise. People base decisions on available information, when you change that information down the line people feel at best let down and at worst betrayed/lied to.

3. If you are going to move sections of the delivered content into the Cartel Market, ensure that the subscription stipend comprehensively covers that cartel cost or that subscribers get a 100% discount.

4. Never EVER promise something you don't know for 100% certain you can and will deliver, people don't forget, you can't just brush stuff under the carpet and expect it to magically disappear. Poor choice of words is NOT a defence, only publish what you mean.

 

If people are disappointed repeatedly then they not only take their own business away, but they spread the word to potential new customers and discontent amongst other existing customers. As an MMO this game relies on communication and discontent spreads very rapidly.

 

I'm fully aware that this forum is a bear pit dominated by noxious posts, but when General chat is full of complaints then the multitude that avoid these forums notice the issues and make decisions based on what they hear/read.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Beaunidle

[Thaed]

Currently the tiered CC system is 500,600,700 CC per month.

 

First of all, 500 is a joke. One can buy a cartel pack and a few perks per month with this. 600 and 700 are not substantially better and really offer no incentive for these levels. Hell, it would take someone 2-3 months at this rate just to buy a single armour set for a toon or companion.

 

Even if the monthy CC allowance were bumped to 500,1000,1500, this would seem to me to be a significant enough reason for people to make longer term sub commitments to the game.

 

We're talking here basically the equivalent of 1 complimentary armour set per month (a virtual item bought with virtual currency) in return for a significantly greater guaranteed REAL monetary commitment from the players. This should not be rocket science for the devs of TOR.

 

Think about what you're asking. A monthly stipend of 1500 coins would literally be the cost of the sub for that month. They might as well just give out a free 6 month sub if you purchase 9000 coins.

 

If they made a more gradual increase based on how long you've been subbed for (either consecutively or total time), people would still be encouraged to make more of a monetary commitment to the game, just over a longer term. An increase of 25 CCs/month, for example, would increase the baseline stipend to 800 CCs over the course (effectively giving you an additional $3/month for your sub).

 

This way, people are encouraged to stick around without forcing a huge investment. And honestly, I'm not sure how many people would be willing to sub for 6 months at a time at this point. I'll be generous and assume that 50% of current subscribers/potential subscribers would take the 6 month option. It would be more profitable for Bioware to encourage 100 players to stick around for 1 month at a time than to encourage 50 players to pay ~$90 up front (when taking discounts into account).

[grombrinda]

translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther.

 

Haha this made me laugh out loud . ^^

 

To EricMuso,

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

This right here maybe where the whole problems with communication breaks down I think. You have to understand that there are basically two camps on this very definition to what content means,and as such you guys that run this game should come right out and say what YOU define as content.

See on one side we have players who feel that adding cartel items, that are not in the game prior to being added, as additional content, whereas the other half (and I find myself in this part)find that releasing a patch that is nothing but cartel related is not content added to the game.

Now then, by the two statements above it seems that you are justifying that yes indeed the latest patch was in fact not content related ergo that it kind of does not fall into the free content issue. Fair enough.

But I believe,just my opinion by the way, that by actually stating what you guys feel what is and what isn't content could help to alleviate some of the ongoing customer issues and maybe restoring some trust with your paying consumers . Just a thought.

 

But yes I should have put this up top, but thanks for coming out and commenting on this topic. Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

[DarthBrundleFLY]

Once again we get the standard smoke and mirrors and redirection in their responses. "We hear you, can't give any details today, please stay tuned". Stall tactics, they do this all the time...just ask anyone in the APAC server merge thread...they get a bone in that thread around every 3 months with the exact same response as Eric and Corey's posts today.

 

Subscribers on the APAC servers in no way feel "valued", ignored would be more accurate. It take this company an eternity to do anything, from bug fixes to content updates...unless of course it is for their beloved cash shop, miracles happen there.

[Glzmo]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

Are you certain that the work on the GUI features of Game Update 2.1 and any other Cartel Market GUI additions for that matter hasn't caused other much requested GUI features like chat bubbles to be pushed back? Because last summer before the decision of going free to play was made, we were reassured to expect them soon...as we were told again and again since launch. Why are they still missing from the game? I guess because you can't milk players with it like you can with the Collections GUI and the Appearance Designer Kiosk GUI (and yes, it's a ripoff - subscribers should at least have the option to pruchase changes with credits instead of cartel coins).

Based on this I think that the free to play option and the cartel market updates have indeed had a negative impact on other game features and subscribers in the process.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Glzmo

[Vassise]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

In other words, you lied. You gave us false promises.

[Shingara]

In other words, you lied. You gave us false promises.

 

Yup, id say your about right cos last i checked he is lying in that statement but i dont think anyone has noticed it yet, he says we get flashpoints, warzones, events and operations unlike f2p, but last i checked the only thing they dont get is operations.

 

He also seems to not mention the fact they dont have to real money for extra access to them unlike us. its all lies, smoke and mirrors.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Shingara

[DarthBrundleFLY]

Are you certain that the work on the GUI features of Game Update 2.1 and any other Cartel Market GUI additions for that matter hasn't caused other much requested GUI features like chat bubbles to be pushed back? Because last summer before the decision of going free to play was made, we were reassured to expect them soon...

 

Dude...your not supposed to remember that, lol. If you watch the guild summit videos from May last year, chat bubbles are discussed and they actually say they know what the problem was and they think they have a solution for it so expect them in the not to distant future. Then they were asked about it in December and they just reiterated that they caused to much lag in game with no mention of what they said at the guild summit.

[Arkose_Sands]

Yup, id say your about right cos last i checked he is lying in that statement but i dont think anyone has noticed it yet, he says we get flashpoints, warzones, events and operations unlike f2p, but last i checked the only thing they dont get is operations.

 

You're right in that subscribers and non-subscribers get all those things you mentioned. You're wrong in that subscribers can do those things an unlimited number of times for free unlike non-subscribers. Further explanation in the original blog post six months ago by Mr. Hickman would have gone a long ways by either confirming that only war zones, flash points, operations, etc. would be unlimited for subscribers or stating that all new content, including the Cartel Market items, would be unlimited for subscribers. Assuming what the word "content" means is never good because it leads to frustrations when it doesn't materialize to what people envision.

[Shingara]

You're right in that subscribers and non-subscribers get all those things you mentioned. You're wrong in that subscribers can do those things an unlimited number of times for free unlike non-subscribers. Further explanation in the original blog post six months ago by Mr. Hickman would have gone a long ways by either confirming that only war zones, flash points, operations, etc. would be unlimited for subscribers or stating that all new content, including the Cartel Market items, would be unlimited for subscribers. Assuming what the word "content" means is never good because it leads to frustrations when it doesn't materialize to what people envision.

 

Ever heard of the gtn, go visit it sometime and see im correct and you mean preffered right ?. As for what was said prior to f2p to keep us all subbed, bait and switch nothing more nothing less, all smoke and mirrors with alot of lies.

 

Its also no where near unlimited, max subscription coins a year is 7200, same money for pure coins 22000.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Shingara

[Kirtastropohe]

I do feel for Eric as he has to take the brunt of our fury on the numerous shortcomings and fails that have plagued this game. I appreciate his efforts. That being said, it does suck that what we were told about subscriber perks was not the case.

[Arkose_Sands]

Ever heard of the gtn, go visit it sometime and see im correct and you mean preffered right ?. As for what was said prior to f2p to keep us all subbed, bait and switch nothing more nothing less, all smoke and mirrors with alot of lies.

 

Its also no where near unlimited, max subscription coins a year is 7200, same money for pure coins 22000.

 

I thought non-subscribers have a credit cap. What if those things on the GTN were priced over that cap? The only way a non-subscriber could gain access would be to pay Cartel Coins to unlock that feature.

 

Plus, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means, Vizzini.

[Shingara]

Edit, actualy you know what, this is my last ever post on the forums. I wish to say thanks for all the good debates ive had with peeps like andryah, darththc etc. I had alot of fun working with a good group of guys putting the whole space concepts post together and i had alot of fun when i used to gather all the posts together for mr reid to answer all our euro questions.

 

So on that note good night, god bless. Smoke me a kipper and ill be back for breakfast.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Shingara