Why no acknowledgement of overpowered heals?

[Raansu]

It's easy when the other team had nobody doing over 300k dps. LOL

 

You do realize the only people ever really breaking those big numbers are inflated by tab dots and aoe's right? M assassin rarely breaks 300k because I'm either away from the main fight and pressuring off nodes or I'm beating on a guarded healer or a tank trying to wear down the heal/tank combo, while when I get on my juggernaut I hit 600-900k almost every match but I'm also not really killing anyone. Hey cool, I hit 5 people for 5-9k+ a piece...but none of them died and the 2-3 healers just healed them back up...but hey, look at that, I broke 1mil damage, I'm totally ******.

[sirullrich]

You do realize the only people ever really breaking those big numbers are inflated by tab dots and aoe's right? M assassin rarely breaks 300k because I'm either away from the main fight and pressuring off nodes or I'm beating on a guarded healer or a tank trying to wear down the heal/tank combo, while when I get on my juggernaut I hit 600-900k almost every match but I'm also not really killing anyone. Hey cool, I hit 5 people for 5-9k+ a piece...but none of them died and the 2-3 healers just healed them back up...but hey, look at that, I broke 1mil damage, I'm totally ******.

 

Haha I have no problems killing a healer. Your team had an average of 20 kills while the other team had an average of 10 kills. They had 3 healers, but your team still outkilled them by double. If it was that easy how come the other healers didn't put up the same numbers as you. Maybe you are just good at your class and put up good numbers.

 

So if you hit 5 people for 9k the first thing that a healer is going to do is heal themselves. Therefore kill the dps within that time frame of the the healer healing themselves. What is your team doing when they see 5 people without 1/3 of there health. Is no one attacking, but you?

 

I have jug tank and is in tank gear. I spec to dps and still do 600-900k damage. I only set up for smash and smash people. It is soooo easy that anybody can do it. Did you see what I did there.

[darthruff]

You do realize the only people ever really breaking those big numbers are inflated by tab dots and aoe's right? M assassin rarely breaks 300k because I'm either away from the main fight and pressuring off nodes or I'm beating on a guarded healer or a tank trying to wear down the heal/tank combo, while when I get on my juggernaut I hit 600-900k almost every match but I'm also not really killing anyone. Hey cool, I hit 5 people for 5-9k+ a piece...but none of them died and the 2-3 healers just healed them back up...but hey, look at that, I broke 1mil damage, I'm totally ******.

 

BS

 

I've dropped at least 700K dmg in a WZ on every class since 2.0.

 

Over a million on my shadow as infiltration and my merc as arsenal.

 

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean everyone else can't put up huge numbers.

 

Healing is fine. L2P.

[Raansu]

BS

 

I've dropped at least 700K dmg in a WZ on every class since 2.0.

 

Over a million on my shadow as infiltration and my merc as arsenal.

 

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean everyone else can't put up huge numbers.

 

Healing is fine. L2P.

 

Yeah sure, if you do nothing but chase numbers while most likely having a pocket healer anyone can do that. Too bad chasing numbers doesn't win games. There's an assassin on my server that does nothing but chases numbers. He refuses to guard nodes, he doesn't really pay attention to his surroundings, he doesn't really focus anything. He just attacks anything that can get him big numbers and rolls with it. Hey great, he's #1 in dps but he also made a crap ton of mistakes, fails to slow someone so his teammates can cap and leaves nodes unguarded.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Raansu

[darthruff]

Yeah sure, if you do nothing but chase numbers while most likely having a pocket healer anyone can do that. Too bad chasing numbers doesn't win games. There's an assassin on my server that does nothing but chases numbers. He refuses to guard nodes, he doesn't really pay attention to his surroundings, he doesn't really focus anything. He just attacks anything that can get him big numbers and rolls with it. Hey great, he's #1 in dps but he also made a crap ton of mistakes, fails to slow someone so his teammates can cap and leaves nodes unguarded.

 

Right. I do all that stuff. Sure.

 

I have a 94% winning percentage in nearly 1000 rated games spread over my 4 main classes.

 

Enjoy being bad.

Edited May 17, 2013 by darthruff

[sirullrich]

Yeah sure, if you do nothing but chase numbers while most likely having a pocket healer anyone can do that. Too bad chasing numbers doesn't win games. There's an assassin on my server that does nothing but chases numbers. He refuses to guard nodes, he doesn't really pay attention to his surroundings, he doesn't really focus anything. He just attacks anything that can get him big numbers and rolls with it. Hey great, he's #1 in dps but he also made a crap ton of mistakes, fails to slow someone so his teammates can cap and leaves nodes unguarded.

 

Wow at first you can't put up big numbers and now you can. So basically you keep trying to prove your point by saying whatever you want.

[sirullrich]

Right. I do all that stuff. Sure.

 

I have a 94% winning percentage in nearly 1000 rated games spread over my 4 main classes.

 

Enjoy being bad.

 

I agree. Bads will always be bad. I guarantee nobody uses that guy in rateds.

[Raansu]

*rolls eyes* scrubs like you two always bark the loudest because you have no counter argument and then have to attempt to brag to make yourselves feel like good players. I'm so sorry that both of you are terrible and need broken mechanics to be carried through a warzone.

[sirullrich]

*rolls eyes* scrubs like you two always bark the loudest because you have no counter argument and then have to attempt to brag to make yourselves feel like good players. I'm so sorry that both of you are terrible and need broken mechanics to be carried through a warzone.

 

lol in every post you have on this you contradict yourself and now your solution is to give insults.

[maverickmatt]

Wow at first you can't put up big numbers and now you can. So basically you keep trying to prove your point by saying whatever you want.

Reading Comprehension OBVIOUSLY wasn't your best subject, so allow me to draw it in crayon for you:

 

 

You do realize the only people ever really breaking those big numbers are inflated by tab dots and aoe's right? My assassin rarely breaks 300k because I'm either away from the main fight and pressuring off nodes or I'm beating on a guarded healer or a tank trying to wear down the heal/tank combo, while when I get on my juggernaut I hit 600-900k almost every match but I'm also not really killing anyone. Hey cool, I hit 5 people for 5-9k+ a piece...but none of them died and the 2-3 healers just healed them back up...but hey, look at that, I broke 1mil damage, I'm totally ******.

 

 

He clearly states that he rarely breaks 300k damage and lists the reasons why, which are in essence being a good teammate and understanding that Objectives = higher chance to win, which is > Damage...

 

 

Yeah sure, if you do nothing but chase numbers while most likely having a pocket healer anyone can do that. Too bad chasing numbers doesn't win games. There's an assassin on my server that does nothing but chases numbers. He refuses to guard nodes, he doesn't really pay attention to his surroundings, he doesn't really focus anything. He just attacks anything that can get him big numbers and rolls with it. Hey great, he's #1 in dps but he also made a crap ton of mistakes, fails to slow someone so his teammates can cap and leaves nodes unguarded.

 

 

Again, he clearly states that there is another player on his server who puts up huge numbers, but is a terrible teammate.

 

And then ignorant fool #1 posts this:

lol in every post you have on this you contradict yourself and now your solution is to give insults.

 

Nowhere in those posts did he contradict himself. You're a fool, and before you post on the forums, claiming to be the SUPER ALMIGHTY PVP GOD DPS SUPERWOWZMEGABADMOFO, I would suggest you take a reading comprehension class. I'm certain Hooked on Phonics may help you, hell I bet they even have a program built specifically for your particular type of idiot.

 

P.S.:

I have a 94% winning percentage in nearly 1000 rated games spread over my 4 main classes.

.

 

I call BS. Your remarks, forum post history and apparent lack of basic vocabulary (Your default is calling someone bad... What kind of tiny mind can't come up with a better insult?) suggest that you couldn't function in a social group comprised of more than pre-pubescent teenage boys. This would indicate that you wouldn't have the capacity to play Rated PvP, because you can't do it solo and a team of 12 year old boys won't go very far. By all means, please post your server, your character names, and legacy name (just to make sure all the characters you post actually belong on the same account).

 

Have a nice day, you two.

Edited May 17, 2013 by maverickmatt

[Astarica]

Ran another game, this time Novare Coast. Here's the final numbers:

 

Top DPS (some BH) our side: 500K damage, 1 death.

Top healer (Sage) their side: 600K healed, 7 deaths.

 

We won the game very easily, by the way, as you can probably guess from 1 death on our top DPS.

 

Now I'm not sure in what world would you consider a healer that died 6 times more than a DPS as a good healer. Certainly the game was completely lopsided and yet our top DPS couldn't beat their top healer in number healed, even with a rather ridiculous difference in deaths on the two characters. In most serious games, the death numbers would look the other way around (7 on DPS, 1 on healer), and the gap will be even bigger.

 

So if your top DPS can't beat the enemy's top HPS when the enemy healers are getting rolled, then where's the balance? The point isn't that healing is autowin. Our team won because we have healers of our own and our DPS was still better than their DPS. But it's ridiculous to roll over a team and realize that a healer with 7 deaths still comfortably outhealed your best DPS with 1 or 0 deaths. In any reasonably even games those death counts will likely be flipped.

[Raansu]

Reading Comprehension OBVIOUSLY wasn't your best subject, so allow me to draw it in crayon for you:

 

 

 

 

 

He clearly states that he rarely breaks 300k damage and lists the reasons why, which are in essence being a good teammate and understanding that Objectives = higher chance to win, which is > Damage...

 

 

 

 

 

Again, he clearly states that there is another player on his server who puts up huge numbers, but is a terrible teammate.

 

And then ignorant fool #1 posts this:

 

 

Nowhere in those posts did he contradict himself. You're a fool, and before you post on the forums, claiming to be the SUPER ALMIGHTY PVP GOD DPS SUPERWOWZMEGABADMOFO, I would suggest you take a reading comprehension class. I'm certain Hooked on Phonics may help you, hell I bet they even have a program built specifically for your particular type of idiot.

 

P.S.:

 

 

I call BS. Your remarks, forum post history and apparent lack of basic vocabulary (Your default is calling someone bad... What kind of tiny mind can't come up with a better insult?) suggest that you couldn't function in a social group comprised of more than pre-pubescent teenage boys. This would indicate that you wouldn't have the capacity to play Rated PvP, because you can't do it solo and a team of 12 year old boys won't go very far. By all means, please post your server, your character names, and legacy name (just to make sure all the characters you post actually belong on the same account).

 

Have a nice day, you two.

 

You sir, are awesome.

[szczypaczek]

Sorry but no. The screenshot was simply to point out how easy healing is. Both teams were equally bad as we were 3 capped at one point. All I was pointing out is my scoundrel is optimized for the scrapper spec and yet I did all that healing with on average 2-3 people attacking me (an assassin stuck to me like glue the whole time) and the only time I died was due to lag and me getting two GCD's without an ability going off. No way should I be that effective in DPS gear. Imagine if I was geared correctly for healing and actually knew how to play healing spec? All I casted throughout that entire game was probes and emergency medpack and the aoe whenever it was off CD. I'm not even good at playing heals and I did that well. It's brain dead easy right now.

 

So what are you trying to sell, is that your scrapper could heal so great having only 2 long cast heals, and 2-3 ppl attacking you. Either you've made that story up, or you were playing against mobs. Show me video or it didint happen, and next time dont somke weed before you play.

Edited May 17, 2013 by szczypaczek

[Paitryn]

Plenty of ways to kill a healer. single it out. disrupt cast heals. focus down with good burst dps. A balance sage wont do it because there just isn't enough burst, but a scoundrel, op, sents, heck even a good gunnery spec can do it if they have help taking them on.

 

biggest problem i see is when two healers are marked and you got one healing the other and everyone doing whatever with only two attacking heals, rarely the same target.

 

Heals enforce teamwork on both sides.

[JediKalel]

Ran another game, this time Novare Coast. Here's the final numbers:

 

Top DPS (some BH) our side: 500K damage, 1 death.

Top healer (Sage) their side: 600K healed, 7 deaths.

 

We won the game very easily, by the way, as you can probably guess from 1 death on our top DPS.

 

Now I'm not sure in what world would you consider a healer that died 6 times more than a DPS as a good healer. Certainly the game was completely lopsided and yet our top DPS couldn't beat their top healer in number healed, even with a rather ridiculous difference in deaths on the two characters. In most serious games, the death numbers would look the other way around (7 on DPS, 1 on healer), and the gap will be even bigger.

 

So if your top DPS can't beat the enemy's top HPS when the enemy healers are getting rolled, then where's the balance? The point isn't that healing is autowin. Our team won because we have healers of our own and our DPS was still better than their DPS. But it's ridiculous to roll over a team and realize that a healer with 7 deaths still comfortably outhealed your best DPS with 1 or 0 deaths. In any reasonably even games those death counts will likely be flipped.

 

So wait youre basing your argument on the fact that the healer had more HPS than the DPS had DPS.... that doesn't mean squat, a sage healer especially can heal EIGHT people at one time with their AOE heal, which will inflate their numbers significantly.... next argument please because this one is invalid.

[JackWolfskin]

Typical troll bait responses. "You suck!" "Learn to play!" Sorry pals, objective data is worth more than your silly little trolling taunts.

 

Then why is it that when I play on my sorc or sage that I am able to unleash my uberamount of healing?

 

I just came out of a game where the enemy does their damage on a tank who didn't die because I kept that tank's healthbar up while none of the enemy even tried to touch me.

 

The level of play in this game is so low. Poor quality of players. None heard of overextending, interrupts never happen etc etc.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Healers have completely dominated PVP since ~1.2 or 1.3 (not so much Commando/Merc).

 

Bruahaha !

 

Tell this a newish level 10 healer going into PvP for the very first time - he or she is flat in 0,00001 seconds !

At least in random battlegrounds.

 

So wait youre basing your argument on the fact that the healer had more HPS than the DPS had DPS.... that doesn't mean squat, a sage healer especially can heal EIGHT people at one time with their AOE heal, which will inflate their numbers significantly.... next argument please because this one is invalid.

 

Your argument is invalid in the case that the healer doesn't get any support.

 

Nothing is more squishy than a low-level healer who is not supported. Especially in random battlegrounds.

Edited May 17, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[JackWolfskin]

The people complaining here are:

 

1. Ignorant
   
2. Bad DPS players
   

 

Now let me elaborate. There is only one healing class that cannot be shut out completely. That is the Operative. If you're complaining about heals being powerful, you are:

 

1. Fighting an imbalanced situation, 2 (healer + tank) versus 1 (you)
   
2. Have crappy team-work (multiple DPS focusing the healer instead of keeping the healer busy with 1, and killing the tank with the rest)
   
3. Really bad at playing their class (Smashtards who don't know about free force scream and a filler rotation)
   

 

Sorcerer healers have kiting abilities, but you only need to interrupt innervate, and the rest of their healing abilities will cost them dearly. Innervate is the only force-efficient heal. The moment you force them to frantically use Dark Heal you've won because they'll be dry on force within 30 seconds. Their kiting abilities can be mitigated by slows, and roots. They have only one 4-second stun, and a useless 8-second soft-CC which is not in their interest to cast if you have your breaker available.

 

Commando healers can be interrupted, rooted, and have no kiting ability beside a knock-back and electronet.

 

The operative healer has instant heals that can be used on the run. While they aren't much, they put out better numbers under focus fire/pressure than any other class (simply because they can't be interrupted). Kolto-Cloud is your enemy, its a 10 meter AOE heal near the scoundrel/operative. This can be used while kiting, which they can do effectively with an evasion buff, flash-bang, a kick to the balls, and stealth.

 

The trick with operative healers is to push them away from the fight, that way they cant use Kolto Cloud in conjunction with their Kolto Probes.

 

 

 

Are all healers overpowered? No. They can heal 1 persons damage. Under pressure two of the three healing classes cannot effectively heal the group. So as long as you have 1 DPS keeping them busy you have free-reigns on the rest of their team (supposing the rest of your team is not filled with terribad DPS'ers).

 

The only healing class that give's the impression of overpoweredness is the operative/scoundrel healer. This is arguable whether or not it is overtuned. However, I must admit that a good Operative/Scoundrel healer requires two people to shut out effectively:

 

1. One needs to force them to pop their battle stealth, and flash bang
   
2. The other needs to be a Juggernaught/Assassin/Powertech who can push/pull the Operative away from their team.
   

 

Quoting this fantastic post again to be sure it gets read. Please learn from this.

[JediKalel]

Bruahaha !

 

Tell this a newish level 10 healer going into PvP for the very first time - he or she is flat in 0,00001 seconds !

At least in random battlegrounds.

 

 

 

Your argument is invalid in the case that the healer doesn't get any support.

 

Nothing is more squishy than a low-level healer who is not supported. Especially in random battlegrounds.

 

Pretty sure I didn't have an argument.. I had a point that a sage healer can boost their HPS using their AOE heals on EIGHT people at one time can and does inflate their numbers to make it look like they did some magical single target heals that saved everyone on his team from dying... learn to read, my point had nothing to do with the rest of his team or what they were doing.

[AlrikFassbauer]

My point is that a level 10 healer going fresh into PvP just doesn't have all of these abilities you talk of - so saying "the healer" isn't possible, because it would encompass the squishy level 10 healer, too.

[BobyDigital]

why not give pts and mercs a healing debuff and make them stack with the other classes healing debuffs? that will make mercs and pyros viable in ranked and a reason to take a variety of classes

[UncelSam]

Healers have completely dominated PVP since ~1.2 or 1.3 (not so much Commando/Merc).

 

Any PVP is a damn nightmare right now. Premades stack heavy healers and win by virtue of healing being completely overpowered, causing a lot of misplaced complaining about premades. Healing outstrips damage by a MINIMUM of 2:1, often 3:1. This is just a simple fact. The occssional high damage numbers are almost exclusively AOE inflation and people being ignored in vain attempts to kill nearby healers.

 

This completely ruins all Warzones, except Huttball where positioning and high ground control are a bigger factor than straight confrontations, usually.

 

Civil War and Novare - Get ANY minor advantage and auto-win. Once the healer-heavy team establishes a 2-cap, winning becomes impossible for the other team. There is literally no way, barring the healer team simply not watching the turret, for the other team to turn the game around. Everything dies so slowly such that, even if you COULD win the engagement... respawning healers prevent any chance of doing so.

 

Voidstar - Turtle the first doors with your unkillable team. Again, as long as the door is not simply left empty, there is no way for the attacking team to down the door.

 

Hypergates - With the trend in play, as long as your pylon isn't sniped, the healing team will win. They can easily get more kills and orbs due to dominating victories in midfield. There is again literally no way to turn the match around unless they just leave their pylon empty.

 

The PVP of this game used to be fun... USED TO BE. I love this game, and the warzones. But, with patch after patch of healers being completely unbeatably dominant, I'm having a hard time finding the motivation to play or keep a sub active.

 

It's like they want to ruin every enjoyable aspect of the game systematically just to make sure it dies off completely and generates no more revenue.

 

I agree.

 

I Think the devs forgot about damage mitigation due to armor and buffs arent balanced and accounted for when they tried to balance damage and healing power. Therefore heals are > than damage.

 

Theres too few CCs compared to the amounts of healing skills too. So trying to stop a heal is out of the question too.

 

Its just plain redicilous right now.

 

I just wanna add that the premade options makes this even worse, since PUG often end up without healers at all, while the Premades got at least 2-3 healers and 1-2 tanks of 8 players.

 

its a balance that makes it less< than 1% chance of winning for PUGs = NOT FUN AT ALL, EVER = Alot of quitters in WZs

[maverickmatt]

I agree.

 

I Think the devs forgot about damage mitigation due to armor and buffs arent balanced and accounted for when they tried to balance damage and healing power. Therefore heals are > than damage.

 

Theres too few CCs compared to the amounts of healing skills too. So trying to stop a heal is out of the question too.

 

Its just plain redicilous right now.

 

I just wanna add that the premade options makes this even worse, since PUG often end up without healers at all, while the Premades got at least 2-3 healers and 1-2 tanks of 8 players.

 

its a balance that makes it less< than 1% chance of winning for PUGs = NOT FUN AT ALL, EVER = Alot of quitters in WZs

 

I'm not sure what game you're playing, or on what server, etc.. but on Pot5 I can't join a pug with less than 2 healers anymore. I never thought I'd say this, but DPS seems to be in short supply (comparatively), or maybe it is right where they intended it to be.

 

I agree that healing becomes OP, but only when you add teamwork. So it goes like this: Healing + Teamwork = OP... come to think of it, the "OP" factor has very little to do with healing, and much much more to do with.. you guys guessed it... Teamwork. 3 healers is not too much to handle... 3 healers working in concert becomes sticky. However, the team with 3 heals has other glaring weaknesses you can exploit, and that's where teamwork > all.

 

Premades only have an advantage when they have communication and teamwork. The difference between a good premade that steamrolls you, and a bad premade is their ability (or willingness) to communicate with the other 4 players on their team.

 

 

TLDR: Teamwork is OP.

[DimeStax]

TLDR: Teamwork is OP... To solo-que Warzone Rambos.

 

Fixed. I think this "Healing is OP thread" should be merged with the "End Premades now, I want mindless uncoordinated pvp for all!" thread.

[maverickmatt]

Fixed. I think this "Healing is OP thread" should be merged with the "End Premades now, I want mindless uncoordinated pvp for all!" thread.

 

You know I was being sarcastic, yes?

 

Teamwork is the point of Warzones. Therefore I'm an advocate of premades (they seem to be on the right track).

 

I just wanted to point out one of the reasons, if not the only reason, people complain about healing (before, it was DPS, and before that it was something else) is because the team they happen to be on doesn't practice teamwork. One person can't be held responsible, it's a fault with the entire group and you will continue to lose and think x,y, or z is OP until you learn to work as a team.