Fake "Tanks" that refuse to guard people in PVP...

[Volxen]

What is will all of these fake "tanks" that refuse to use their guard in PVP? These are the people that are ALWAYS in tank stance (and presumably tank spec) in warzones, but NEVER guard ANYONE, ,including healers. Had a Guardian do this last night and he ended up doing 93k damage and 3k protection from throwing a taunt here and there. Completely useless and a deadweight to the team. Are people really this clueless about tanking?

[Cole-clark]

What is will all of these fake "tanks" that refuse to use their guard in PVP? These are the people that are ALWAYS in tank stance (and presumably tank spec) in warzones, but NEVER guard ANYONE, ,including healers. Had a Guardian do this last night and he ended up doing 93k damage and 3k protection from throwing a taunt here and there. Completely useless and a deadweight to the team. Are people really this clueless about tanking?

 

Yes they are this clueless.

[TheronFett]

On the flip side, there are those of us who put up higher protection numbers than some do in the DPS category. We not only protect healers, we toss Guard around to other targets who need it. We die for you so that you can score in Huttball, if we're not scoring ourselves. We use Taunt on CD. We annoy, interrupt, and otherwise wreak havoc on the battlefield.

 

We enjoy this thankless job because well, good tanks are the rarest commodity in the game.

[NoTomorrow]

On the flip side, there are those of us who put up higher protection numbers than some do in the DPS category. We not only protect healers, we toss Guard around to other targets who need it. We die for you so that you can score in Huttball, if we're not scoring ourselves. We use Taunt on CD. We annoy, interrupt, and otherwise wreak havoc on the battlefield.

 

We enjoy this thankless job because well, good tanks are the rarest commodity in the game.

 

with all this healer+tank combo plaguing the crap out of every warzone, i'd say good DPS that are capable to break these stupid stalemates are the most valued comodity in SWTOR PvP.

[Astarica]

In light of the threat of smash, guarding is not as foolproof as it seems as eating a smash + guard damage from smash usually leads to a quick death. Generally if a healer heals me then I guard him. I find that in general if a healer doesn't heal whoever's guarding him, he's obviously not good enough to waste your guard on (because after you die he goes too) and you might as well fend for yourself instead.

 

I do think DPS is important right now, precisely for the reason stated. Unless you want every game to go 30 minutes it's really a good idea to have good DPS on your side just for the sake of sanity. I'd rather lose some games quickly than win every game in 30 minutes. There's no way the reward for a 30 minute win is worth it.

[Cosch]

We prefer the term "objective players".

[Z-ToXiN]

Last night, one of these fake tanks was calling me an idiot...

 

He finished the WZ with 74k damage and 0 protection, being in tank stance the whole game. Really.

[Savej]

If you're a dps and I'm a dps in def stance (raises my armor and lets me use shields), why should I guard you? So that I die faster than you? I'm just playing devil's advocate here since you aren't elaborating at all. There are definitely reasons to use def stance without guarding. And my guardian has occasionally popped a lot of protection points (well over 100k) just using taunts and aoe taunts but he only uses d stance when he's carrying the ball and when his charge is on cd or when he knows he's about to be focus fired (in which case he won't be guarding)... Edited May 5, 2013 by Savej

[Astarica]

Guarding a DPS is fine if you don't think there's smash around. Unfortunately smash is almost always around. Let's say smash hits for 8k, so if you guarded someone it'd be split 4k (him) 12K (you) if you were both in range for smash. This makes it much likely you get taken down to execute range and then instantly die, so you're actually better off distributing that damage equally. Sure you can say just don't get smashed, but that's easier said than done. Right now only healers are even worth the risk of eating 1.5X damage from a smash. There's just too much risk to dipping into the 30% quickly. Even if you've no healers, it's still better to split 8K/8K than 4K/12K.

[Seireeni]

Last night, one of these fake tanks was calling me an idiot...

 

He finished the WZ with 74k damage and 0 protection, being in tank stance the whole game. Really.

 

I had a vanguard like that yesterday in lowbie Voidstar. Tank stance, tank gear, 0 protection. My commando healer really could have used someone to look after him, but no. -.-

[Volxen]

If you're a dps and I'm a dps in def stance (raises my armor and lets my use shields), why should I guard you? So that I die faster than you? I'm just playing devil's advocate here since you aren't elaborating at all. There are definitely reasons to use def stance without guarding. And my guardian has occasionally popped a lot of protection points (well over 100k) just using taunts and aoe taunts but he only uses d stance when he's carrying the ball and when his charge his on cd or when he knows he's about to be focus fired (in which case he won't be guarding)...

 

1) I play a healer most of the time, not a DPS. In all of these games I've been talking about, there has been at least one healer (me), if not 2 healers. These fake "tanks" had no excuse for not using their guards.

 

2) This isn't about DPSers strategically switching to tank stance to increase their defenses at key moments. It's about people who are in tank stance ALL of the time, NEVER guard anyone, and end the game with sub 100k damage and maybe a few k protection, if any at all.

 

These people are far worse than a DPSer with tunnel vision, because they aren't tanking/protecting, and they aren't really doing any damage, either. They contribute NOTHING and waste one of eight slots.

 

Oh, and that "tank" with 93k damage and 3k protection was the ops leader. He was also level 54, so it's not like he was a lowbie. Scary how someone that clueless could have that much valor.......

Edited May 4, 2013 by Volxen

[Seireeni]

Oh, and that "tank" with 93k damage and 3k protection was the ops leader. Scary how someone that clueless could have that much valor.......

 

There seem to be some problems with how the lead is assigned. I thought it was supposed to go to the person with the highest valor rank, but today I was playing my commando, who has valor rank 55, and in one wz, the lead was assigned to a level 38 character - a character that can have the maximum of 38 valor.

 

I've once actually heard a theory that the leadership would go to the person whose valor bar is closest to the "end" - meaning a person with valor rank 3, but who's almost at valor rank 4, would get the leadership over a person who just got to valor rank 50. Can't say if that's true, though, sounds a little silly to me, but somebody claimed that once.

[Yeochins]

I've once actually heard a theory that the leadership would go to the person whose valor bar is closest to the "end" - meaning a person with valor rank 3, but who's almost at valor rank 4, would get the leadership over a person who just got to valor rank 50. Can't say if that's true, though, sounds a little silly to me, but somebody claimed that once.

 

It's true, and has been known ever since 1.1.x.

 

The valor rank 9x's take lead quite often because they stay closer to the end of their valor-bar for a longer period of time due to the sheer amount of valor it takes to progress to the next rank.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Yeochins

[Seireeni]

It's true, and has been known ever since 1.1.x.

 

The valor rank 9x's take lead quite often because they stay closer to the end of their valor-bar for a longer period of time due to the sheer amount of valor it takes to progress to the next rank.

 

Okay, thanks for the clearing. ^^

So it's absolutely possible to get the lead even though you would have a low valor rank.

[Ghost_Spectre]

On the flip side, there are those of us who put up higher protection numbers than some do in the DPS category. We not only protect healers, we toss Guard around to other targets who need it. We die for you so that you can score in Huttball, if we're not scoring ourselves. We use Taunt on CD. We annoy, interrupt, and otherwise wreak havoc on the battlefield.

 

We enjoy this thankless job because well, good tanks are the rarest commodity in the game.

 

Here! Here! Tanking is a mentality. A tank must have the mindset going into battle that they are the biggest and baddest mofo on the block. They should be the first into battle, spamming their taunts, challenging and battling 3 to 5 opponents at a time all the while they are guarding someone and protecting the entire time, even at the cost of their life. Dying while in battle is an honor when it saves another team mate or two. Truth be known, dying is but a brief respite allowing everything to reset so one can reengage and do it all again.

 

Nothing is better for a tank when they are at the door or a node trying to plant a bomb or cap while half or more of the enemy team is pounding on them and your healer(s) are keeping you going while your DPSers are burning those down surrounding you. This is what tanking is all about. A thankless job to be sure; however, it is a rewarding job bringing satisfaction to those who are true tankers and team players. That is why my Jugg and soon my Guardian never switch stances and always remain in pure tank gear.

[Volxen]

Here! Here! Tanking is a mentality. A tank must have the mindset going into battle that they are the biggest and baddest mofo on the block. They should be the first into battle, spamming their taunts, challenging and battling 3 to 5 opponents at a time all the while they are guarding someone and protecting the entire time, even at the cost of their life. Dying while in battle is an honor when it saves another team mate or two. Truth be known, dying is but a brief respite allowing everything to reset so one can reengage and do it all again.

 

Nothing is better for a tank when they are at the door or a node trying to plant a bomb or cap while half or more of the enemy team is pounding on them and your healer(s) are keeping you going while your DPSers are burning those down surrounding you. This is what tanking is all about. A thankless job to be sure; however, it is a rewarding job bringing satisfaction to those who are true tankers and team players. That is why my Jugg and soon my Guardian never switch stances and always remain in pure tank gear.

 

OK, we just need to make a couple thousand clones of you and we will be good to go.

[Crawelc]

I will always guard a healer when I play on my Shadow. Untill I die while their dps buddies are getting healed to full everytime someone sneezes in thieir general direction. I wont re-guard a healer after my first death under those circumstances. Those type of situations make for very low protection numbers, but a much more enjoyable game for me personally.

[Ghost_Spectre]

OK, we just need to make a couple thousand clones of you and we will be good to go.

 

Hey thanks. I really learned tanking playing CoH/CoV from a friend of mine that turned tanking into an art form. The one thing you have to do when tanking is swallow your pride and put the team ahead of you. Worrying about dpsing as a tank is fruitless, especially in PvP. The one thing I wish would function in PvP is threat generation like it does in PvE. Then when I hit someone with a backhand or crushing blow they would cause the players around me to engage my tank as when I use my single taunt or AoE taunt. That would be cool.

[Zunayson]

We prefer the term "objective players".

 

love dat political correctness

[Taleek]

Here! Here! Tanking is a mentality. A tank must have the mindset going into battle that they are the biggest and baddest mofo on the block. They should be the first into battle, spamming their taunts, challenging and battling 3 to 5 opponents at a time all the while they are guarding someone and protecting the entire time, even at the cost of their life. Dying while in battle is an honor when it saves another team mate or two. Truth be known, dying is but a brief respite allowing everything to reset so one can reengage and do it all again.

 

Nothing is better for a tank when they are at the door or a node trying to plant a bomb or cap while half or more of the enemy team is pounding on them and your healer(s) are keeping you going while your DPSers are burning those down surrounding you. This is what tanking is all about. A thankless job to be sure; however, it is a rewarding job bringing satisfaction to those who are true tankers and team players. That is why my Jugg and soon my Guardian never switch stances and always remain in pure tank gear.

 

More than just a little dramatic, but truth, truth! I've found generally my role as a tank is to help my team by making life as miserable for the enemy team as physically possible. I'll be the first in, be on the verge of death very frequently while just barely being kept alive by healers. All the while, I'm throwing out AoE debuffs like my AoE taunt and riot gas, swapping guard to enemy focus targets, taunting people attacking focus targets, pulling people attacking focus targets (or pulling people who are low so they cannot escape >: D), running straight into the middle of groups and firing off AoE stuns so my teammates can get off some channeled AoE, and generally annoying the enemy team because for some reason, this idiot just won't die! And when I die, I go back in and do it all again.

 

......That is unless I'm carrying the huttball. Then I just pray someone does all of the above for me, and look for passes.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Taleek

[Fordel]

OK, we just need to make a couple thousand clones of you and we will be good to go.

 

No we don't, nothing is sadder then a Warzone with more then 1-2 tanks in it.

 

Ever been in a Warzone where you have so many tanks we run out of things to actually guard? Talk about lessons in futility.

 

 

 

That's easily one of the biggest problems with tanking in general (pve or pvp), you only need 1 most of the time. Maybe 2. They don't stack well at all.

[Seireeni]

Ever been in a Warzone where you have so many tanks we run out of things to actually guard? Talk about lessons in futility.

 

Actually, no, but I've been in warzones where there are so many healers that the healers are pretty much " OH! That person just lost 1% of his hp! I have to heal it fast before those other healers can!" and we get barely any enemies killed.

So I guess it's all about the balance. With too much dps it's also hard to win.

[NamikazeNaruto]

The thing that irritates me most in PvP is having other tanks besides myself in the warzones that have no idea how to tank. This is because they usually guard someone like a healer that I want to guard but they stay out of guard range of the healer and focus on DPSing people instead. I won't be able to guard those healers either because that other tank has them guarded but isn't doing their job. At least if I'm the only tank on the team I can guard swap freely.

[maverickmatt]

I pray for times like this, when "tanks" are too ignorant to use guard. It means that they can't guard you and then run far far FAR away, taking away my ability to guard that player. Edited May 5, 2013 by maverickmatt

[dufox]

with all this healer+tank combo plaguing the crap out of every warzone, i'd say good DPS that are capable to break these stupid stalemates are the most valued comodity in SWTOR PvP.

 

a DPS that doesn't have tunnel vision & is willing to play objectives is a gold nugget and they usually get undervalued.

this was true since launch tho

 

same could be said for all classes, but its alot harder to find a DPS who knows the scoreboard isnt everything.