Why are people against a LFG Tool

[DarthFreki]

Really the whole group thing sucks on swtor. I'm hoping it will get better at end game, but for now there are numerous problems.

 

1. It's nearly impossible to find group members once you group with them. The map is just so screwed up if you need to find where someone is in order to try to tell them how to get to the instance.

 

2. Finding a group is a pain. There isn't a decent tool. Yes I know people seem to think that the whole lfg tool is a horrible idea. Guess what they said he same thing in wow, then they put it in place. A few months later there weren't any complaints. Who really wants to login and spend half an hour getting a group together before they can even play? I'd prefer to spend as little time as possible getting into groups.

 

In essence, anything that allows me to spend more time making my character better and killing things is good. Anything that requires me to do tedious work is a pain and shouldn't be in the game. So far swtor has done a great job, but I'm still going to have reservations until I hit 50 and see what end game is like.

 

hey you're issue of finding group members? here's a quick solution. tell everyone to MEET at a central location and everyone walk out from there. no sympathy for no forethought.

 

and for #2: i haven't used the lfg tool, but it IS not the lfg tool that people don't want they don't want a group maker and WOW calls it: Dungeon Finder!

 

Darth Freki

[Greyfeld]

In WoW, it would take dps 30+ minutes to find a group. Healers and tanks got in instantly.

 

This isn't WoW.

[Zeldias]

The LFG tool they have in game is freaking horrible. You're so much better off just saying that you want to group in general chat than you are setting yourself as LFG. It's not because people don't use it that it's bad. It being bad is the reason people don't use it. It's completely worthless.

 

It's bad because no one uses it. It's like you're saying baseball sucks because you don't have enough players; the sport doesn't suck, it's just that no one's involved. If everyone used it, then it'd be a decent tool. It's the kind of thing that relies on participation. Seems to me that Bioware should include a tip that alerts people to the tool's existence.

[Aethusa]

LFG Tool gets thing easier, everyone knows that.

 

But also a killer. It gives you the way to consume everything really fast in the game.

 

Actually i dont even want to have a summoning stone. Every patch killed WoW cause things had become so much easy.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Aethusa

[Vegetian]

This is really the problem, is that nobody is using it. I was on Coruscant yesterday and needed a group for Trouble in Deed. I checked the LFG list and there was only one listed for the mission, but he'd already done it and didn't need the group anymore.

 

If people would actually use the tool, we'd see more use for it.

 

Yes, thats the core of the problem. Which I tend to think is a visability issue, if anything. The visability for the actual comment is very limited in it's scope, in regard to the quest. While I think it's appropriate for it to be on the social panel, I think it may require a larger visability on the panel, or have the panel tabbed for a specific LFG section (much like the codex and other things are tabbed on other menu's). Lastly the limitation of making it planet specific is a bit annoying..especially when the search option (as far as what planet your searching) is buggy, unresponsive, or just plain slow. Imo that should be elminated and it should be server wide/faction based. Although that in itself creates a situation where there's tons of people listed...you can sort through by level, which generally ppl near your level will be looking for the quest that you are.

[Greyfeld]

Yes, thats the core of the problem. Which I tend to think is a visability issue, if anything. The visability for the actual comment is very limited in it's scope, in regard to the quest. While I think it's appropriate for it to be on the social panel, I think it may require a larger visability on the panel, or have the panel tabbed for a specific LFG section (much like the codex and other things are tabbed on other menu's). Lastly the limitation of making it planet specific is a bit annoying..especially when the search option (as far as what planet your searching) is buggy, unresponsive, or just plain slow. Imo that should be elminated and it should be server wide/faction based. Although that in itself creates a situation where there's tons of people listed...you can sort through by level, which generally ppl near your level will be looking for the quest that you are.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a more advanced search functionality overall. Search by level, class, planet, etc. And yes, a separate tab for the LFG. A newbie tip wouldn't be bad either.

[Hatslinger]

Personally, I'd like to see a more advanced search functionality overall. Search by level, class, planet, etc. And yes, a separate tab for the LFG. A newbie tip wouldn't be bad either.

 

A tip is definitely needed. I found the LFG tool days after I started playing by complete accident. Now, I'll mark myself as LFG [whatever], yet I've only had one instance that it worked within a few minutes. There aren't enough people that use it. I still mark myself, but I spam general chat as well. Generally, using chat gets me better results.

[CaptainBlarg]

The vast majority would probably love this. The people crying on the forums are the vocal minority. The people that mindlessly lash out at WoW don't want this, because they don't want to understand just how good WoW has gotten lately. I'd love for this game to be as polished as WoW, because the combat is different enough to keep me interested. I'd also like to see the endgame content.

 

WoW's "community" as you guys call it is too vast to pigeonhole. I can go all week without encountering any real douchey behaviour, but you will find them eventually. Guess what? That happens when you get off the computer too. Some people are just miserable.

 

 

An actual LFG tool doesn't make people antisocial, that's the job of bad parenting. You'll still find these people through the massive amounts of LFG spam; or should I call it "community strengthening" spam?

[Kesitah]

Go play wow a few weeks and you know why it is a bad idea to implement such a tool. Vanila wow --> best MMO ever (together with ultima), WOTLK wow ---> worst MMO ever.

 

Don't know why the nostalgia. WoW Vanilla was horrible. It had so many issues in class balance, instance design (Tank&Spank fights FTW), 40-man raids, with 15 people half-afk and bosses still dying, broken itemizations (mage raidgear with manareg on it!) and so on. Success of WoW came with TBC (not 100% sure, but didn't TBC already include dungeonfinder ? Wasn't it introduced at the time of Sunwell? Not sure if my memory is right here)

 

And as I said in several threads before... the anonymity does not come from the LFD tool, it comes from people being in teamspeak of "years old" guilds and not caring for some randoms.

 

As to the current SWTOR LFG tool as long as there is only a comment line and manual invite needed people will not use it but sit at space station and spam in chat channels. Like they do in WoW for raids (for raids in WoW until recently no automatic system existed, for normal modes even today does not exist - and there people still use chat channel spamming, despite a browser similar to SWTOR existing).

 

I think only one of two things could fix the LFG system in SWTOR:

 

1. A system similar to WoW Dungeon finder

2. expanding the system to at least select the name of the quest/Flashpoint through a menu system, having this clearly displayed and to be able to select what classes/roles are still needed. Also automatic note once the group is filled and a filter system to only show groups which look for the same quest as you, as well as split up among "people looking for a group" and "group looking for people" (LFG vs. LFM). Something similar to the system used in DDO (well, didn't play that game for years, still fondly remember the quest brwoser this game used). Also some automatic request to join a group which does not need too much chatter. In DDO you had as far as I remember little icons for the classes they were looking for for the group.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kesitah

[masmun]

Actually. No the current LFG tool is not planet only based. If you put in the search box LFG it will show you everyone using it on any planet and in any instance. The problem is people dont use it. Now is it perfect no. Can it do with a few tweaks? Sure. But its there. Its just not used. If it was, then it would not seem as some people say broken.

[Vegetian]

Personally, I'd like to see a more advanced search functionality overall. Search by level, class, planet, etc. And yes, a separate tab for the LFG. A newbie tip wouldn't be bad either.

 

Yea hopefully as time goes on, more people will become aware of it. However, I'm still going to submit my suggesstions to BW and hopefully, eventually it will get changed to be better than it is. The likelyhood of an entire new tool or system is slim tho, imo, thus I feel we'd have better success having them refine the existing one.

[Kesitah]

LFG tools are awesome.

 

What most people are having nightmares about is how the cross server LFG tool destroyed their experience in WoW.

 

Crossserver was not the issue. The issue was people doing more and more easymode 5-man-content which did not really need thinking about what you do, while chatting on their guild teamspeak. This was the true issue! That automatic group finding came at the same time where "guilds were growing old/established" was a pure coincidence.

[Erevan_Kindelar]

My experience with and without a LFG tool (in both cases, playing a female healer whose form is easy on the eye, if you are into pixelated fantasies).

 

With LFG Tool:

Load up LFG tool, filter based on what instances I want to run. Find a group and join it or message the group leader for an invite.

Group chat is basically dead. Ask where the group is, and get a zone reference.

Group is filled, group leader makes sure we know what the roles are - who is tanking, DPS and healing.

Hit the dungeon. Group chat is still dead. Turns out 2 of the group members are guilded and using their guild Vent server, but the rest have never met.

Group gets wiped. The guildies leave saying the group sucks, and join another group they have picked up via the LFG tool. Replacements come in. Group leader confirms group roles. No other communication in Group chat.

Group wipes again. Rinse and repeat between group wipes and ppl leaving/joining. Group leader eventually gets tired of trying to herd a group of cats who are not interested in getting the group anywhere but who just want to complete their own agenda/quests, and who will hop from group to group until they get it.

 

Without LFG Tool (at least in SWTOR):

Log in, stand my the instance/Flashpoint start point that I want to run. Call in General for a group to run that instance.

Get an invite within a minute or two (assuming that I do not get someone /whispering me as soon as I log in, because I have grouped with him or a guildie of his who has recommended my healing services).

Sit around waiting for the group to complete, spending a minute or two chatting with the group leader.

Get a full group, the group leader or I make sure that everyone knows their role in the group. A bit more chatting (a lot of the people I am grouping with in SWTOR seem to be fairly new at it, so we have a small educational session, and the way the conversation system works is discussed.

Get into the instance/flashpoint. Group wipes. Group discussion about what went wrong and how to do things differently next time. Start instance again. Maybe group wipes again, and I apologise because this time the group wiped because I lagged/disconnected. I get back into the instance, amid some playful/sarcastic comments about the quality of the healer. A group member ragequits the group because of the wipe. We head out to refill the group and restart. Run the instance, complete it, everybody adds everybody else to their friends list and a couple of people get a guild invite (I turn these down typically, as this healer is not on my main Guild server, so I am not very active).

Result, by the end of EGA I do not need to spam for a group - I get /whispers and group invites on an almost constant basis throughout my gaming session - I probably spend 25-33% of my gaming session just chatting with people on my friends list or their friends.

 

If I were to put it into context, without a LFG tool I make friends based on the groups I have been in. With the LFG tool, I find a group and at best I make acquaintances because the groups are so fluid and people see the groups as being disposable and temporary.

[Jaliyah]

I made friends (even met my husband) in the pre-dungeon finder days. These friends were a huge part of what made the game enjoyable. Post-dungeon finder I no longer made friends in dungeons. Even if I met someone who I would like to group with again, I most likely wouldn't be able to because they were on a different server. Once my other friends started quitting for various reasons the game became far less enjoyable.

 

There was accountability before and there wasn't after. I've seen some people say "well ninjaing will always happen" and while this is true, there are different degrees and varying consequences. I can't speak for all servers but on mine characters could get a good or bad reputation. If someone was a ninja you would tell your friends and that person would not get invited to future groups. If someone was helpful or good at their role they would be more likely to find a group. With a dungeon finder like WoW everyone has an equal shot at finding a group regardless.

 

I believe it is possibly to make a LFG interface that appeals to both sides of the coin. It doesn't have to create the group for you and port you to the instance for it to b useful for casual players on a schedule. At least at first there should be no need for cross server as the servers are quite populated. The tool they have now does need some work but there is no need to go to the extreme that WoW did.

 

The dungeon finder in WoW is one of the main reasons I quit. Will not having a dungeon finder lead you to quit the game? If so at least you have other games to play.

[Crazyeyexl]

You are damn right I'm lazy. I get off work and want to relax and enjoy myself, not sit at the fleet spamming. The groups I have gotten into do exactly what groups do in the instant queue, take down bosses roll on loot and "Thanks for group" end.

 

Please don't tell me, "You need to talk to them more, get to know them". I don't care! I want to do my part well, get the daily done and move on to what ever else I have planned for the night with the game.

 

The way I met most of my friends in Vanilla was constantly running into them while questing, not groups that formed for 5 mans anyway.

[ITSAmeee]

So apparently we can summarize the entire discussion in few main points:

 

- Most of the players of MMO nowadays makes friend through the LFG Chat Spam. Without the LFG Chat they would be lonely and they wont be able to make friends.

 

- The LFG Chat Spam is also a crucial Social aspect of the game, a core feature of MMOs. Without LFG Chat Spam there wont be Social interaction in a MMO.

 

- Only ugly and nasty people use the LFG Tool. God forbid a Crossrealm LFG Tool is released, then the amount of beasts (because those queuing in a Crossrealm LFG tool are not people) would be game breaking.

[Rikia]

I have mixed feelings on the LFG tools that WoW has, not against nor in favor of it. I played WoW since Vanilla, played Everquest1 (till Lost dungeons of Norrath expansion), FFXI before that. The old days listening to the general chat to find groups were normal, even for leveling purposes. As a group leader you try everything in order for the group to succeed on what you have formed up. Usually that leads to reputation gain on your server, and with luck you get some new friends (not always). However it will be tedious to do it every time. Class demands are always an issue (finding healer, and tank will take time always on whatever MMO you are playing).

 

I don't really want to go back to FFXI and EQ1 days, where the only thinig you do is put up the flag, then wait in hopes someone whispers you. Usually faster when you take the initiative to form up the group yourself, which requires some effort.

 

In WoW, I still remember people forming up on UBRS, Scholomance, Stratholme groups. These took time to finish, and not always managed it due to some people being rude, ninja looting, took too much time (1hour+ and such) or whatever. Still, people took alot of time traveling since mounts were expensive and travel time was horrendous. Usually people asked "you got summon?" even if there were no warlocks in group. And if there were, they expected to have like 100 shards just ready to summon (they used to have shards, AND yes it used to occupy bag space. They didn't stack). Later they added Meeting stones just outside the instance entrance (well almost). People started to get lazy and even the group is formed, alot of times people just waited where they were and asking for summon. (usually this took more time than actually traveling there)

 

In TBC, the similar LFG tool like what we have in SWTOR has been implemented. This is also the very same expansion where badge system has been added, and daily heroics. Basically instead of running the same dungeons for gear, you did it for badges. The dungeon runs motivation changed from luck of drop to grinding badges. Still people used LFG tool that were implemented, was slow like in vanilla.

 

In Wotlk they added the dungeon finder, well pretty late I think it was around 3.3.0. Which in my opinion was a great concept. Over the time people started to use the dungeon finder from questing to badge/point grinder. Since you can get in a group easy, they tried to do it many times as fast as possible. In conjunction with the speed you were getting the upgrades, the process became faster. And because of this, people started to become more and more impatient, thus we have the state we got now. Impatient, rude, VERY self-centered, always in rush community. Don't believe it? just open the WoW forums, and go to any forum thread and you get what I mean. (I know why they made cross server, its to reduce the queue time. Although at the cost of people not caring each other since they can still be anonymous after the group is disbanded since your group members are not from your server)

 

Do it with friends and guild, doesn't always work. Better said, it never works unless they are leveling at the same speed, at the same time as you are and having the same goal. Some people has more time than the others, unless you do some sort of arrangement before logging into the game there is no way you can expect to have their help by the time you require aid.

 

Since the devs stated they will eventually put the Dungeon finder or similar tools later in game (probably when you have more 50s, and you are focused on gearing instead of leveling + enjoying the story), just hope its on your server only. WoW's End game is all about gear, and gear only which are obtained grinding points or specific drop from specific dungeons. Not sure what SWTOR end game will focus, maybe have more things to look for in the endgame apart from gear.

 

TLDR version: WoW had its history on LFG tool. SWTOR has theirs, and evolve or not with time depending on players needs and End goals. People just needs to adapt on what they have.

[Greyfeld]

So apparently we can summarize the entire discussion in few main points:

 

- Most of the players of MMO nowadays makes friend through the LFG Chat Spam. Without the LFG Chat they would be lonely and they wont be able to make friends.

 

- The LFG Chat Spam is also a crucial Social aspect of the game, a core feature of MMOs. Without LFG Chat Spam there wont be Social interaction in a MMO.

 

- Only ugly and nasty people use the LFG Tool. God forbid a Crossrealm LFG Tool is released, then the amount of beasts (because those queuing in a Crossrealm LFG tool are not people) would be game breaking.

 

Or, we can create a summary that's far less callous and biased. But I suppose that would require actual effort.

[kalarro]

People is not against dungeon finder. It's just a few who make much noise on the forums. But if you ask players in the game, each time you group or do an instance, you rarely will find anybody who doesn't want such tool

[Elysion]

A good lfg/lfm system like ddo had would be great.

 

Anything that lets you click a button and get placed randomly into a group is bad.

[Kevinik]

Because there already is a LFG tool!

 

It's useless crap that doesn't work!

 

We need a LFG tool that works with all servers. Spending an hour LFG then it turns out the classes people claim to be (healer, tank) are lies and you to start all over.

 

This chat LFG retro thing it's beyond stupid. And flagging for LFG o WHO doesn't work either.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kevinik

[keekn]

maybe you should try cataclysm instead of wotlk

 

Go play wow a few weeks and you know why it is a bad idea to implement such a tool. Vanila wow --> best MMO ever (together with ultima), WOTLK wow ---> worst MMO ever.

[Hatslinger]

It's useless crap that doesn't work!

 

Correction, it works just fine. People just need to actually use it.

[Elmiond]

I'd like an lfg tool, I've just got a few requests to its functionality:

It will not auto group me with anyone I've put on ignore.

It does not group people across different servers for two reasons.

Gives some consequence to "ninja" looting, pissing people off might remove your ability to group.

Means that I can group or even guild up with people I meet and actually like during a flashpoint.

[robertallen]

Maybe it's just my luck in picking servers for over a decade, but every MMORPG I've ever played that featured a LFG tool in, noone ever used.