I was in a few beta runs (3-closed) and played for a month straight after launch. Got tired of the game and took a break. Been waiting for 1.2...but learned from the launch experience. There were so many bugs we pointed out in beta, but were told by George Z that they already knew about them and that us Beta's were just stress testing the servers. Okay, whatever. Guess what, those bugs were in the launch version...surprise. Lets also not forget that BW failed to learn how to apply large updates in beta. What I mean is instead of keeping beta players toons for new builds, they wiped them each and every time (and thus high level content was hardly tested), up until the last build before launch. Thus I'm not surprised to hear of the issues following the 1.2 update..and why I've waited a few days after deployment to update it. I do agree that they should have approached the update in a PVE part and PVP part...but your wasting your breath, they won't listen to players. They could care less.

Yes, I dislike and notice, that sense of entitlement too. To be fair, there are some reasonable gripes about the game out there. However, just saying "I dont like it, it's crap, I'm leaving" doesnt really qualify as an appropriate examination of the game. No, BW can't please everyone, and the game is young, but there are a few things that could have done differently prior to launch. As far as content is concerned, any game thats just released is like that, so that's really not a valid arguement against SWTOR.

Honestly, it's not a bad game. It's not great, but good. I participated in 3 beta phases (1 was really short) as a closed tester (not the weekend testers), and then obvisiouly pre-launch. I stopped playing the game on a consistent basis about a month and a half ago. Occasionally I'll log in and check a few things, but really haven't devoted any hours to the game. Actually haven't even updated from 2 patches ago. Currently I have a 50 sorc and 30 jugg...but honestly feel no underlining need to play. Thats a problem, and it seems that a variety of other players have felt that way too. I'll be honest and say when 1.2 is finally released (whenever that is) I'm sure I'll log in to check it out and I'm sure I'll play for a bit. However, I'm not so sure that's going to keep me interested, for a long duration of time, in the game. The reason that I think this is a big issue is because when playing other MMO's in the past (Swg, Lotro, even STO) I always had plenty to do, or something to keep me interested for awhile (well maybe not STO as much). I'm not saying that Swtor isn't a good game, but rather stating there is a lack of urgency feeling in regard to the playability of the game. Maybe I'm burned out from beta-testing, you could make that arguement too. However, it seems I'm reading the same theme from a variety of players. So the real question is, how do they change this then?

I think that's a little harsh. I don't think the game is gonna die, but it's clear the population is dropping. That's not necessarily subs are dropping, but just in-game population. Some ppl may be sitting around waiting for 1.2 and the features it brings. So we'll see.

Well I have noticied a drop, in almost every zone that I've been in. This is especially the case at the Imp fleet. A month ago the pop would hover around 80-100 players around 7am, on a weekday, and usually 130-170 players at 7am (EST Times) on a weekend. Now logging in at the same time there's between 25-40 players @ 7am (again EST) on the weekdays and usually 60-80 @ 7am on the weekends. Granted that's not necessarily peak playing time (I work the night shift), but there's clearly been a drop in population. I can't speak for other servers. It's even worse on planet zones, where there used to be around 30-40 players each zone, its down to 1-10 players. Although it's reasonable to expect that most ppl have leveled quick...since it's easy to level up in this game. Again this is all around 7-8am EST, which isn't peak time. However, you'd still expect to see a larger player base. All populations are Imperial faction, I have no idea about the republic faction on Veela.

Yea, liking the list. Alot of things I agree on. True, some things they are already aware of and are working on..but I agree, this is like 2 patches worth of stuff, not an expansion. Honestly I stopped playing like a week or more ago. There are various reasons...but for the most part its largely due to the reptative nature of end-game (which is typical with MMO's). I mean the WZ's are a joke..esp with the "bugging" of the zones and consistent huttball matchs (which are annoying). Illum is good, when there is actually action. Having rolled a few toons in 3-4 phases of beta, this has contributed to my own boredom, to a degree. So I can't really say my experience is the same as everyone elses, but the general consensus is that the game is getting stale. That aside, def +rep on the post, like the ideas.

Lol...so that makes it biased? So if he had said "I played WoW for around two years" or "I played DAOC for around two years" is that biased too? Based on your response, it should be. If thats the case..your gonna have a real tough time finding someone who hasn't played any of the three to make an objective review. My opinions about the game were not based on any previosu MMO I've played...in fact I'm still formulating my opinion. MMO's shouldn't be reviewed until a month or two after launch. In any case, just because someone has had experience in a game before doesn't make thier opinion biased. Sure, some do, but you should read the review and then make your own judgement. His only biased was in regard to crafting, which we can all agree that it needs to be improved anyways.

You'll never get the debuff idea implemented. I completely understand the OP's point of view, and do agree with it. However, devs will look at it as your penalty for leaving early is you don't get credit. To be quite clear, I normally don't stick around either, unless I'm just pvp'n for valor. Basically because my gaming time is limited to around 3-4hrs a day (if I'm lucky). So if it's 5-0 in huttball i'm jetting or if I join a game in such a condition I'm jetting, unless I'm playing for just pure valor pts. It sucks, but way it is.

Content thats tested in a successful manner Content that's stable Content thats bug free Content that doesn't introduce new bugs At this point...I'd just be happy with something that actually fixes something or doesn't break an already existing part of the game.

Yes, the patching the patch, then patching the patch of the patch is getting sorta old. The primary reason for having a test server is to test content and patches before releasing them to the live enviroment. There is increasing frustration both over the fact that this process seems to not being implemented successfuly (or to it's design) and the consistent downtime on the live servers because of it. We beta testers know what happened on beta...it is what it is, and it can't be changed now. However, you would have thought that the positive of this experience is that the developer would take away what needs to be changed in the review process....apparently this lesson hasn't been taken yet. I have yet to see a mass of players drop due to this...but frustration is mounting, and at this pace it is only a matter of time. Further you may begin to see some negative PR due to it. The process for testing needs to be reviewed, because clearly it's not working, all around. Hopefully this is already being changed or will be addressed in the short-term.

I can't see this happening...basically because the classes are faction based. In some other games you can choose the faction, but the classes are universal. In this game your class is based on your faction choose. Thus the logistics of "defecting" to the other faction would probably not be a feasible process for BW. Don't get me wrong, I understand what you mean and do agree that faction imbalance is an issue, but I just don't see the benefit over cost for BW to do so. I can't even begin to figure out what type of tool/software/system they could utilize for such an idea. A more economically feasable option for BW is to allow server transfers or merge servers. Now that we will most likely see soon enough. From a business standpoint this is much more business friendly than what you were suggessting, and much more realistic from thier point of view.

Indeed. I'm not against it, don't get me wrong, you have those that leave if the game doesn't go thier way. But I think we'd have a hard time convincing BW to impose some penalty for it, basically because the larger community may be against it. I mean if you have ever saw a player reaction to increases on death penalties, you can imagine what I mean. I do like the idea of PVP daily reduction, especially since we do not get credit for every game we win atm, so hopefully they may implement that.

I think it's a good idea. You could even utilize the legacy system to include pupils you've trained etc and have them some sort of distant relation (although no perks from your legacy). It certainly would add to the knowledge of the player base as well as make those early FP and group quests much more do-able than they are now. It's definatly worth exploring.

Well the whole "not getting credit bug" doesn't help with the 3 win daily thing atm either. Although apparently that is going to be "fixed" soon, but I'm not holding my breath compared to the last "fix" that was for the issue. I do sort of agree on a deserter penalty...although some may disconnect from game (for whatever reason) during the match. Thus you may have a hard time implementing such a penalty, basically beacuse you don't know what happened to that person.

Honestly...I didn't argue any of those points if you look in my posts lol. And I agree, the winner knew how to play thier template, or had a better template setup than the other. As for being waxed by a TK/DOC...no, but did get waxed once by a BH on Restuss doing a grind group. Of Course I only had 2 boxes in LS then, after that never lost. Killed a few on my BH though. Mostly MDH Republic Jedi, they offered the best pvp fights. Wish they would have included player bounties in this game, imo that was one of best aspects of SWG.

Yes! The randomness of the PVP grind in this game leaves much to be desired. I to agree that the grind is retarded, considering the objective is clouded by the random allocation or % chance of reward being something you already have. Compund this by the shoty play on Illum, and reptative WZ matching. The fact is while in other games there was a clear objective with a clear reward made the grind worth it, in this game it's a "luck of the draw" format. With the exception of valor r60, however you still only get a % chance to get a token for BM pvp gear.

We're just coming from different viewpoints. Thats it. Ppl are allowed to voice thier opinion, it doesn't mean thier always right. He made good points, so did I, thats it. There is no "owning". Your contributions to the discussion, well they weren't contributions at all. It was more like teenage pratling, which doesn't really serve a purpose to the discussion. Since your post was there to just incite things...that makes it troll worthy. So I wasn't saying it to make myself feel better, I was saying it because that's what it is. Teelan's point was that SWG was not gear dependant to be competative, my point was you had to grind to be competative in SWG, which essentially you were awarded a piece of gear that was a status icon, but not necessarily combat essential. Either way, you had to put work in, which ppl apparently don't want to do anymore, they just want everything handed to them.

No character transfer yet. As with many aspects of the game the answer is "We are working on it.."

Lol. Yea sold mine on there...so your statement isn't untrue. Didn't buy it on there. But then again, your trolling is strong. However your reading comprehension is lacking, I can help you tho, just send a PM, we'll get you that GED!!

Right, and when you unlocked your CLASS, did you not get your Jedi robes? I'm not disputing the fact that your template and skill was primary in pvp'n or even fighting in general, in that game. But the OP's question was about a grind to get gear. When you did the Jedi grind, sure you were doing it to get your CLASS (which was essentially a status), but you still got your Jedi robes at the end of the grind as well as the Skill Points needed to fill out your template. In the end the point is, in that game for you to be viable and effective in pvp (which is what I think the OP is trying to get at), you had to grind to finish off your template. Regardless if you were in robes or hot pants. I guess we both in the end mean the same thing...just coming from different viewpoints here.

Yes, the last two sentences said "And I know ignorant players don't realize this but patches/fix's = good" So wanted to point out, I wasn't an ignorant player, as well as dispute the fact that while I realize patches are good, I believe theres a better solution to maint timing etc than currently in place. The statistics just backed up my claim, thats all.

Cool story yourself. So ah...you didnt do the Force-Sensitive Village grind? And later the jedi grind? Because ah..you know you had to do those to get your uber cool spec...right? Unless you were an NGE Jedi..then you have no idea what I'm talking about, because everything was handed to you.

I was a pre-cu jedi, and later termed "elder Jedi" in pre-nge. Sipap Immah- Gorath Server, ~KoG~. Nobody said I was crying. I was pointing out the fact that you had to do an extreme grind to get gear and status in that game. Perhaps your reading comprehension needs improvement? Or maybe you just need to read it before replying with a stupid comment.

Seriously? To get Jedi status...pre-NGE you had to grind forever to unlock force sensitive, then grind even more to build up your jedi skills (and had to watch for BH's becase if they killed you, you lost xp), and finally you did have to grind for gear (to get your Jedi robes). There isn't an MMO, that I'm aware of, that you didnt have to grind for gear. Someone said DAOC..but didn't play that one, so can't speak for that.

First you should see what I was replying to, a previous person's comment on page 1. Second, I'm disputing the fact that the servers have been up 99% of the time out of scheduled maint. I do agree its probably more like 80% or such, but not 99%.