Clickers.

[Aluc]

Just bumping the post as its should have ended there I think

 

No it shouldn't have. Everyone here is human, and everyone has muscle memory. Keybindings are not like typing because chances are all of your keybinds revolve around the area where your left hand is already placed. That means you barely have to move your fingers to the left, right, up, or down. And honestly it only takes a few days of practice before the muscle memory begins to kick in and you are pressing keybinds without flinching.

 

And for the people that are in this thread saying 'well you suck at clicking'.... are you serious? Suck and clicking can never be used in the same sentence positively. It's illegal. And I bet these are the same people that didn't want DPS meters implemented into the game.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Aluc

[Jeweledleah]

No it shouldn't have. Everyone here is human, and everyone has muscle memory. Keybindings are not like typing because chances are all of your keybinds revolve around the area where your left hand is already placed. That means you barely have to move your fingers to the left, right, up, or down. And honestly it only takes a few days of practice before the muscle memory begins to kick in and you are pressing keybinds without flinching.

 

And for the people that are in this thread saying 'well you suck at clicking'.... are you serious? Suck and clicking can never be used in the same sentence positively. It's illegal. And I bet these are the same people that didn't want DPS meters implemented into the game.

 

no, they are exactly like typing.

 

hell I've been know to accidentally hit a wrong key and move the wrong way, if I let my fingers move too much away from wasd and that's NOT using 1 through 5 keys. currently my limit extends to thumb on space, pinkie on shift and index finger occasionally moving to e, which I rebound to work as next target instead of tab key, which I cannot reach without losing my spot and having to physically look down. I have tried mice with multiple side buttons - 2 is my personal limit. any more and I start hitting wrong buttons.

 

it took me DECADES of practice before I said - screw it, I'll just play the way that works for me and who cares what some narrow minded elitist on the internet says.

 

some of us are good at visual memory. others at tactile. we are not all the same person with exact same capabilities. and this game, this GAME. is done in a way to allow for flexibility.

 

contrary to what some trolls believe, most of us, (or at least me) - we DO know how to bind. its not rocket science. but knowing how to do something and being able to execute it are 2 different things.

 

it doesn't mean we should stop playing or some other nonsense. it means we should figure out what gives us similar result, given out personal capabilities. clicking works.

 

Albert Einstein once said

 

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid

 

Albert was a wise man.

 

do what works for YOU.

[Aluc]

no, they are exactly like typing.

 

hell I've been know to accidentally hit a wrong key and move the wrong way, if I let my fingers move too much away from wasd and that's NOT using 1 through 5 keys. currently my limit extends to thumb on space, pinkie on shift and index finger occasionally moving to e, which I rebound to work as next target instead of tab key, which I cannot reach without losing my spot and having to physically look down. I have tried mice with multiple side buttons - 2 is my personal limit. any more and I start hitting wrong buttons.

 

That's why you use base keys like shift and alt so that you have more choices of keybinds with minimal hand movement. But honestly I don't really see the whole typing thing being an issue because... well quite frankly it's 2013. There are various alternatives that veer away from clicking, and Razer produces the lot of them.

 

contrary to what some trolls believe, most of us, (or at least me) - we DO know how to bind. its not rocket science. but knowing how to do something and being able to execute it are 2 different things.

 

it doesn't mean we should stop playing or some other nonsense. it means we should figure out what gives us similar result, given out personal capabilities. clicking works.

 

Sure clicking does work, but that doesn't mean you're playing at your full potential. Let me give you an example of a PvE scenario I was in:

 

Now there was a clicker the same level and same class as me (sorc DPS). We were right by each other and the circle came signaling that fire was coming and we needed to move. In that time it took him to keyboard turn out of fire I had already force sped out, put my dots on the boss, and by the time he was putting his dots on I had already started casting. See you're right clicking can definitely work, and if that's the playstyle you choose then stick with it. But for the people that min/max and want to see their performance increase even if it's just by a little will not just settle for clicking.

[Jeweledleah]

I think you missed the point where I said, I cannot reach keys 1 through 5 (or even most keys around WASD) without slipping from WASD and losing my ability to move without having to look down and reposition.

I can reach shift, to much lesser degree control. I cannot safely reach alt. my 2 mouse buttons get binds that don't need to be targeted (like self heal, or the break away from stun ability)

 

it doesn't help any that my hands are pretty tiny, either.

 

also - situation you have described? can be handled while clicking. you CAN still turn with a mouse as a clicker, you can still straffe. last boss of Black Talon - where you have to run out when she pulls you in? the only time I don't make it out is when I've been playing too long and I'm either generally tired, or my game is starting to stutter. without force speed no less.

 

I've seen people who keybind, get hit by her AoE. all. the. time.

 

its not a question of how you utilize your UI. its a question of how much attention you pay to what you are doing and how quick your overall reflexes are (mine are not even that fast, and I still manage)

 

examples you brought up? they are still individual examples of individual people. and you can min max on YOUR personal level with whatever works for you. the point is to maximize YOUR personal potential, using YOUR personal strengths while working around your personal weaknesses, instead of trying to conform regardless of whether it works for you, or not.

 

edited to add.

 

I'm getting an impression from some of the posters here that if you are not that absolute best, then you suck. to compare it with sports - if you are not at Olympic level, then you are bad and should feel bad and shouldn't enjoy participating in a sport of your choice, unless you break your back to be as good as people at the Olympic level. except... almost nothing in SWTOR requires that sort of skill to participate in and successively clear. the only exception might be pvp matches, and then only against other people of similar level, but its not like every single pvp match is against super awesome competition winning players. PvE is definitely not set up in such a way.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[bahdasz]

All of this is the perfect argument for why companies make game pads... and why they are so awesome. There is no way I would even try to play this game using the circle my hot keys around awsd method. The keyboard is for chat, that's it.

[darthmorbous]

Pro Tip: Hybridize the two systems. Cooldowns are long enough to easily reach the right side of your screen for the more uncommon abilities anyway. Those who only keybind limit themselves to maybe a third of all the abilities they have available, which isn't exactly useful for your performance either.

 

 

buy a razer naga, dont need to click anything; 17 buttons; 12 on the side; add "shift + (place number button here)"; and you have 24 keys on your mouse + at least 8 on your left hand.

Edited January 27, 2013 by darthmorbous
text

[ScarletBlaze]

That's why you use base keys like shift and alt so that you have more choices of keybinds with minimal hand movement. But honestly I don't really see the whole typing thing being an issue because... well quite frankly it's 2013. There are various alternatives that veer away from clicking, and Razer produces the lot of them.

 

 

 

Sure clicking does work, but that doesn't mean you're playing at your full potential. Let me give you an example of a PvE scenario I was in:

 

Now there was a clicker the same level and same class as me (sorc DPS). We were right by each other and the circle came signaling that fire was coming and we needed to move. In that time it took him to keyboard turn out of fire I had already force sped out, put my dots on the boss, and by the time he was putting his dots on I had already started casting. See you're right clicking can definitely work, and if that's the playstyle you choose then stick with it. But for the people that min/max and want to see their performance increase even if it's just by a little will not just settle for clicking.

 

there could be another reason for the person not moving and it may not have to do with clicking. Some people do have lag problems and their action is sometimes slower than another person and this doesn't have to do with clicking or keybinding.

 

I know people who keybind and have this problem due to lag and their computers so to say this is because of clicking isn't entirely correct.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ScarletBlaze

[madtycoon]

People that say clicking is faster than keybinding in this game are just delusional or are trying to defend themselves for not playing the game at its full potential.

 

If you want to test clicking to keybinding speed, use an aoe ability that you have to target the ground with like forcequake. Try clicking the ability and then clicking on the ground to trigger it, compared to hitting a bind and having your mouse cursor already in the stop where you want to land the ability. I don't care if you have the APM with your mouse of a grand league SC2 player, you aren't going to be able to click the ability and move your mouse faster than just using a keybind.

 

Clicking can work. Swtor is very clicker friendly, with autofacing, root mechanics, longer range on melee attacks, no white attacks, high damage, list goes on... but if you say that you can play the game at its full potential without keybinding your abilities, you're just wrong.

[symke]

buy a razer naga, dont need to click anything; 17 buttons; 12 on the side; add "shift + (place number button here)"; and you have 24 keys on your mouse + at least 8 on your left hand.

 

I couldn't agree more!

I don't want to appear as advertising Razer, so if there is any other mouse with so many buttons on it, it could be as good or better than Naga. Naga does have two buttons (next to left top button) that are almost useless to me due to their placement.

But until you try it you just don't realize how much difference, having 12 buttons under your thumb really is. Especially in PVP where quick reactions are so important. For me it literally meant the difference between playing or not.

Before Naga I was really frustrated with using 20+ skills which meant finding them on a keyboard, pressing 2 or more keys together in order to execute one skill and missing the intended keys due to the hectic environment that is called WZ. Now I use keys 1-6, F1-F12 and my Naga. No shift or alt keybinding, no searching for my keys (maybe sometimes with F9-F12) and no excessive mouse movements.

[sdust]

buy a razer naga, dont need to click anything; 17 buttons; 12 on the side; add "shift + (place number button here)"; and you have 24 keys on your mouse + at least 8 on your left hand.

 

except you have to be right-handed to use most gaming mice or pay many times more for a left-handed mouse and I am not prepared to pay 10 times more for a gaming mouse than i would have to pay for a regular 3 button mouse

[Delidumrul]

I don't understand why it's still discussed. There are some facts and key binding works faster (already a lot of examples are given). On the other hand if the player is happy with clicking then let him play as he wishes. You are still free not to invite a clicker into your party if he is gimping your progression. For random pvp you don't have the chance to form your group of non-clickers but hey ho it's a random group and you still are able to form your non-clicker group for RWZ.

 

Games are for entertainment. Maybe not a 100% fitting example, but it's like sports games. You may not be a professional football player but still would play football with your friends and no1 can ask you to play as good as a professional.

 

I think a 25+ pages of discussion is needed for many other issues about this game rather than a clicking play style.

[PunisherAS]

WoW: *Click* *Casts 5 skills* *Done*

SWTOR: *Click*....... WTH THIS GAME SUXORS.

[Delidumrul]

WoW: *Click* *Casts 5 skills* *Done*

SWTOR: *Click*....... WTH THIS GAME SUXORS.

 

yeah yeah we, swtor players are all superior human beings who are not using consequent casting macros...

[AsheraII]

People that say clicking is faster than keybinding in this game are just delusional or are trying to defend themselves for not playing the game at its full potential.

 

If you want to test clicking to keybinding speed, use an aoe ability that you have to target the ground with like forcequake. Try clicking the ability and then clicking on the ground to trigger it, compared to hitting a bind and having your mouse cursor already in the stop where you want to land the ability. I don't care if you have the APM with your mouse of a grand league SC2 player, you aren't going to be able to click the ability and move your mouse faster than just using a keybind.

 

Clicking can work. Swtor is very clicker friendly, with autofacing, root mechanics, longer range on melee attacks, no white attacks, high damage, list goes on... but if you say that you can play the game at its full potential without keybinding your abilities, you're just wrong.

For you, perhaps, but the whole "keybinding is faster" idea simply does NOT apply to everybody. To some it does, to others it doesn't. And while it may be an easy efficiency increase to some, it's effects are not as big as some claim them to be.

[Jetronin]

I think its time to ignore the Keybind is better brigade. For 1 or 2 abilities it is faster, the rest it makes no difference.

 

Whenever anyone asks them to try something or to consider something they are just being "QQ your wrong" rather than even attempting to listen or consider.

 

I have pointed out that I and others can easily click anywhere on our screens without looking, try it, close you eyes and just click something you use regally), I have already pointed out that when I played wow one of my guilds dps was the top DPS in the world on WoL on several fights and always in the top 10, she was a click and also quite an experienced PvPer.

 

The only place where it makes any difference at all is where is it on an ability not attached to a GCD and possibly on AOEs if you are not so co ordinated with your mouse I guess.

[slafko]

yeah yeah we, swtor players are all superior human beings who are not using consequent casting macros...

 

Anyone bad enough that needs macros should just log off and play something turn-based.

[Envyyyyyyy]

Razer Orb-weaver in my left hand.

Razer Naga Epic in my right hand.

 

 

I give no clicks.

[DiabloDoom]

I use keybinds and mouse. Depending on what I'm doing tbh.

[Darth-Rammstein]

I am not prepared to pay 10 times more for a gaming mouse than i would have to pay for a regular 3 button mouse

 

Gaming is a hobby, if you value your time spent here than the extra money shouldn't be an issue if it will increase your enjoyment. Trust me, a good gaming mouse will change the way you play and make you a better player.

[fresnosmokey]

I am a clicker trying to learn to keybind and I'll tell you, I am finding keybinding much easier on a melee (sentinel) than on a ranged (BH) for some reason. Also, I am definitely going to buy some sort of gaming peripheral, as I'd rather replace that than my brand new computer from button mashing.

[Lionflash]

I am a clicker trying to learn to keybind and I'll tell you, I am finding keybinding much easier on a melee (sentinel) than on a ranged (BH) for some reason. Also, I am definitely going to buy some sort of gaming peripheral, as I'd rather replace that than my brand new computer from button mashing.

 

I recommend the Logitech G13. I haven't tried out many gaming peripherals, but this one has been very good to me. Not very expensive, and you can save all your characters on different profiles and tab to another character in secondes (you can also customize the color of the LED backlights on the buttons. For fun, all my republic characters are blue and all my empire characters are red )

 

It has a bunch of other programs on it like a music control panel, news feed and a stop watch (to tell you how long the pizza has been in the oven while you PVE, lol )

[AshlaBoga]

Keybinding works better for me, but I'm not going to say "you click, therefore you are bad." The only time I'd suggest that clicking might be holding you back is if you have trouble with any content prior to Tier 2 HM Operations, NiM EV/KP is too tough then something is wrong with your strategy.

 

That being said, I keyboard turn in Operations and have found that you don't suffer from it. Now keyboarding turning in PvP that's something I avoid like the Dickens.

[uziforyou]

So I've been checking a few swtor streams out lately, I've just recently come back from a long long break, 7+ months. I've decided to just re-level a whole new class to fully get back into the game.

 

So yeah, I'm amazed on how many clicker there are in this game...99% of them clickers are complaining about something, mainly because they got outplayed, or were just too slow because of clicking spells instead of actually using keybinds.

 

Just a helpful hint, aka PROTIP, for everyone who clicks spells you are limiting yourself on how well/fast you are it would be more beneficial to you if you practiced using ALL keybinds (Well not all, but you get the point.) Watch videos, re-level a new class just to practice how you like your keybinds.

 

I know someone is going to post "I click and I don't have any issues" "I click and I know it's faster than keybinds" Well, you're wrong. Once you practice keybinding you will realize what you're missing out on. Also, once you get the hang of it, you will see a dramatic increase in your performance.

 

Also, while clicking you are spending time looking at your spells more than you are looking at whats going on around you. You lose some awareness while clicking.

 

Moral of the story clickers, please practice keybinding. It will help you out tremendously.

 

Love,

Twitchypoo

 

 

EDIT: This is a great post from a someone who clicks, with many great points. Can't really argue with this.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Ooloi

Keybinding is a consequence of using mouse movement. Mouse movement is more efficient and particularly for melee in pvp provides a serious advantage over keyboard turning.

 

If you are using mouse movement, then you can continuously move around people who are trying to keyboard turn and click while you are spamming some number of keybinds, getting behind them.

 

Some people don't realize that while in PvE if you run behind something and then click it will still allow you to attack the creature without turning to face them, but in PvP you must be facing them. Anyone who can move out of the angle of your range of attack and keep moving can hit you constantly while you're trying to adjust and even 1-3 global cooldowns can mean you're dead and they're not.

 

Step one is to stop using left and right turns and only use left and right strafe. Step two is to not use the back-up key for movement in pvp. Step 3 is to starting using the mouse to move forward (you can click both right and left buttons simultaneously to move foward. Step 4 is to keybind some essential melee skills to keys that you can easily hit while you are moving around them.

 

The idea of starting a new character and learning to run around someone in a tight circle while hitting even a few basic keybound keys is a good one. How much you keybind after that is up to an individual's skill and reflexes.

 

I click, mostly, always have. In PvE it doesn't really matter in this game. In PvP, if you are melee it becomes essential when you are playing against so many people who do use mouse movement and keybinding, unless you just like to lose. I myself have a new character where I'm learning all this. My ranged characters in PvP have allowed me to be accepted amongst those of my peers who are better than I, but my melee post 50pvp toon is pretty awful and it impacts my dps and my ability to support my team.

 

Being open to new concepts and improvements in your play is a good thing. Sure, it's "just" a game, but it's fun to be competent, and allows most people to have a better time while they play.

 

Ahh, the thrice weekly thread on playing "efficiency".

 

Surprisingly, most people play the game the way they enjoy most as opposed to what is efficient. If that means they will be "outplayed" they are willing to live (or die) with that. I personally can't fathom why people incessently worry about how others play the game. If you don't like 'clickers' in your groups, vote to kick them. But please get off the high horse that there's only one "right" way to play the game.

[evanpanzero]

I was top dps on my realm in WoW for 3 years. always a hardcore raider. I can click and keybind with the same results. in pvp yes keybind ur *** off. in pve however, do wat u want. i know personally i dont need to look at my action bars to know where my mouse is and the argument that keybinders are saying about how "you lose your focus looking at the actionbars." i hate to break it to u but thats bull. dont u guys look at it to see wats on cooldown? overall i support either and do not say that in a pve situation if u click u arent "hardcore/a good player". because id love to hear ur excuse as to how a clicker was out dpsing u "pros" all those years wow. I didnt even use macros. and yes ikno im going to be bashed on about how this isnt wow and blah blah but i find that this game is even easier to be a clicker in. (i actually currently keybind in swtor) hahahaha

[Mercia]

I have various top 10 heal rankings (torparse) in hard mode ops as a clicker am i bad ? Edited May 7, 2013 by Mercia