Clickers.

[Aramyth]

Out of curiosity does someone have a youtube video of someone playing with key binds in pvp? Specifically using mouse turning effectively.

[Altheran]

If you use a class that has to get behind people like a sin/shadow or an op/scoundrel the mouse turn will get you there faster with more control of direction. I'm not saying it's not doable with key turning but using the mouse is much more efficient especially if the target is moving.

 

I have an Infiltration Shadow, but still I don't picture it since it's pretty easy to find the back of an opponent without even using the tools given in odrer to do it. I can't imagine an ever easier way.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Altheran

[Domatron]

Out of curiosity does someone have a youtube video of someone playing with key binds in pvp? Specifically using mouse turning effectively.

 

Darthnish has some good vids for a carnage mara and some other classes. You'll see especially in his tutorial vids on his mara how he dodges sorc knockbacks by strafing around them. Its very obvious which sorcs use the mouse to turn and thus hit with the knockback.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/darthnish

[Lionflash]

I'm sure its been mentioned already, but.

 

1.5 second global cooldown. no matter how fast you are at moving your fingers over various keys, you cannot out-type the global cooldown.

 

Except for the fact that there are abilities that do not respect the GCD such as all interupts and taunts/ Taunts are on a very short cooldown and I am constantly using it with my Vanguard. Not to mention 'Riot Strike' (my interupt) is on an even shorter cooldown and I use even more often.

 

mouse turning makes the most difference, but its perfectly possibly to mouse turn when it matters and be a clicker.

 

Sure, it is possible to mouse turn and be a 'clicker' at the same time. But it is impossible to mouse turn, use an ability and use an ability like 'Riot Strike' (off the GDC) at the same time.

 

key-binding is only more efficient if you are capable of typing without having to look at your keyboard.

 

Agreed

 

there's no such thing as "always" when it comes to individual humans. for different people, different things work best. the same class can be a beast in hands of one person, and suck in hands of the other - not because they are awful players overall, but because playstyle of a particular class doesn't work with their personality/attitude.

 

Agreed again. However, I feel as though I can safely say; on average, that is to say generally, 'keybinding' is a more efficient play-style than 'clicking'. Unique people with their specific circumstances aside.

 

the key is to find what works best for you.

 

In the end however, and specifically AoE abilties (which have been stated before). 'Clicking; will fall short and be slower in certain areas in the game, regardless of how much you've mastered the 'clicking' playstyle.

 

 

5char

[Domatron]

I have an Infiltration Shadow, but still I don't picture it since it's pretty easy to find the back of an opponent without even using the tools given in odrer to do it. I can't imagine an ever easier way.

 

It depends on the opponent, an experienced pvper will try to never give you their back (easier to do using mouse turns as well). If I'm on my mara you'll have to stun me to get behind because i wont need to kite. If I'm on my merc it will be easier for you to get because i have to move away but i can usually make it a hell of a time by side strafing while mouse steering. Again this is just my experience having been a clicker for a long time and moving to keybinds, then finally a naga mouse which I can't fathom not using at this point. If my mouse breaks I don't think I would play until i got a replacement.

[Jeweledleah]

I use interrupts as well. I sometimes use interrupts as a healer where I HAVE to select other people with a mouse to heal them, binds or no binds, and I still manage to get some of those interrupts off. putting my taunts where they are easy to reach (as well as the various proc abilities that don't respect GCD) makes them more convenient to use

 

its not impossible.

 

now.

 

the very best keybinder will objectively be slightly more efficient then the clicker of the same level of skill. but the difference is very slight, especially in PVE.

 

for a lot, possibly even majority of players - the return might just not be worth the effort. not saying people shouldn't try - by all means they should if they want to. its just not a 100% necessity.

[Domatron]

If your going to try to switch to keybinds my best advice is start small.

Bind 3 of your most used abilities and add more as you become comfortable. I don't think anyone can go from 0 binds to 30 in one swoop so take it in small steps and build muscle memory.

Using shift and alt for modifiers also is a big help so you can have more abilities bound without having to reach as many keys.

Once you get used to keybinds I doubt you'll ever go back to clicking.

[Marmerus]

the very best keybinder will objectively be slightly more efficient then the clicker of the same level of skill. but the difference is very slight, especially in PVE.

Yes in PVE because the fights are never random and you need to follow rotations. Means you know what will happen and you seldom change or alter your rotation besides in phase changes to keep your damage, healing or threat generation up at the maximum of your characters potential.

[Jetronin]

This all depends on the class and the player.

 

He also obviously did not watch my stream. I have some bind ofc but mostly click, I am also a very very good PvP/PvEer on my gunslinger. I don't look at what I am clicking i know where the buttons are on my screen so look as much as anyone else for CDs. I personally do not feel having 100% binding would help me in the slightest and I have tried it. The only time I have felt it helped was on a healer in WoW as you had to go back and forth between Ops frames and buttons.

 

I can happily move and click and don't lose any time due to the GCD. That is me though, others do not necessarily feel this and for them Key binds are probably better, it is a matter of finding what style works best for you as a player.

[DarthOvertone]

Of course, Keybinding is superior to Clicking. That's indisputable.

 

Unfortunately though the argument is a bit moot because a couple of the most powerful ACs in the game are extremely clicker friendly due to the simplicity of their DPS rotations.

 

Whether it's the 2-button PT/Van or 3,4-button Lolsmasher, any player regardless of preference can do well on those ACs. It really is no wonder these specs are so popular. Even a clicker can play them well.

[Jetronin]

Of course, Keybinding is superior to Clicking. That's indisputable.

 

I dispute it. Only thing I feel is a must to bind on a dps is an interrupt. I have no problem clicking in the GCD so i don't lose any time.

 

As I said, depends n class and player.

 

 

Edit: I play a slinger

Edited January 25, 2013 by Jetronin

[Thundergulch]

Of course, Keybinding is superior to Clicking. That's indisputable.

 

No it's not indisputable, maybe in your mind, and a few others. But not for those of us that are proficient at it.

[Lionflash]

I dispute it. Only thing I feel is a must to bind on a dps is an interrupt. I have no problem clicking in the GCD so i don't lose any time.

 

As I said, depends n class and player.

 

 

Edit: I play a slinger

 

A gunslinger is a very clicker friendly class, as someone has already said. You don't need to worry about movement too much and slingers will still attack enemies who are behind them so you dont really even need to move your camera.

 

Keybinding's benefits really shine as a melee in PVP. Try playing a Vanguard: Shield Specialist who has at least 4 abilities off the GDC.

[DarthOvertone]

But not for those of us that are proficient at it.

 

If you think clicking is proficient, then you are mistaken. Sorry.

[Thundergulch]

If you think clicking is proficient, then you are mistaken. Sorry.

 

I'm talking about PVE, and if you can't see that, then you're mistaken. Sorry.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Thundergulch

[Jetronin]

SO as I said, it depends on the class and the player.

 

I also play a guardian and played a warrior in WoW and have always been a combination of both, The only place where binding is 100% better is on instant abilities that are not on a GCD. I can happily click buttons on my screen without looking.

 

Try it now. look at your screen look at the support bit on the site, close your eyes and put your mouse on it. Its easy.

[Aramyth]

Anyone one jedi covenant want to get together and have clicking vs keybinding fights and see how it goes down?

[Kheld]

Keybinding is only superioir in PvP due to there being no collision detection, which is a heinous crime for a melee combat game.

[AsheraII]

I'm sure its been mentioned already, but.

 

1.5 second global cooldown. no matter how fast you are at moving your fingers over various keys, you cannot out-type the global cooldown.

 

Except for the fact that there are abilities that do not respect the GCD such as all interupts and taunts/ Taunts are on a very short cooldown and I am constantly using it with my Vanguard. Not to mention 'Riot Strike' (my interupt) is on an even shorter cooldown and I use even more often.

And how many of those abilities does the avarage class have? Usually only 1 or 2. Many clickers still use some keybinds, and these are the typical #4 and #5 abilities to bind.

 

mouse turning makes the most difference, but its perfectly possibly to mouse turn when it matters and be a clicker.

 

Sure, it is possible to mouse turn and be a 'clicker' at the same time. But it is impossible to mouse turn, use an ability and use an ability like 'Riot Strike' (off the GDC) at the same time.

And how often does that happen? :')

And, those are usually part of the very few keybinds used by even a clicker.

 

key-binding is only more efficient if you are capable of typing without having to look at your keyboard.

 

Agreed

 

there's no such thing as "always" when it comes to individual humans. for different people, different things work best. the same class can be a beast in hands of one person, and suck in hands of the other - not because they are awful players overall, but because playstyle of a particular class doesn't work with their personality/attitude.

 

Agreed again. However, I feel as though I can safely say; on average, that is to say generally, 'keybinding' is a more efficient play-style than 'clicking'. Unique people with their specific circumstances aside.

It's just that this "efficiency" is hardly necessary with the majority of abilities being ON the global cooldown, and the few that are not being easily bindable to the simplest keys, having a rather long cooldown themselves, and often being only situationally available or even useful.

 

the key is to find what works best for you.

 

In the end however, and specifically AoE abilties (which have been stated before). 'Clicking; will fall short and be slower in certain areas in the game, regardless of how much you've mastered the 'clicking' playstyle.

That only applies to the ground-targetted AOE's, most classes get only 1 or 2 of those. And yes, binding those is definitely faster and more convenient. But they're also targetted and channeled, so very situational. You can't move while using those, you don't want to be interrupted while using those, they're only worth it if you can channel through most of their duration, they're only worth it against multiple clustered enemies, and it's fairly easy for the targets to move out of the way.

 

Overal, keybinding is really overrated in this game. It's different for every game, and yes, in some games and MMO's you'd have to be a masochist to click, but this is definitely not one of those games. TOR is simply VERY clicker friendly, allowing people who prefer clicking to click and perform well, while also allowing those who can't click to perform well through keybinds.

Edited January 25, 2013 by AsheraII

[Marmerus]

SO as I said, it depends on the class and the player.

 

I also play a guardian and played a warrior in WoW and have always been a combination of both, The only place where binding is 100% better is on instant abilities that are not on a GCD. I can happily click buttons on my screen without looking.

 

Try it now. look at your screen look at the support bit on the site, close your eyes and put your mouse on it. Its easy.

When playing warrior in WoW it was very important to stand BEHIND your target at all times. There was not a chance in hell you could have played good as a clicker.

I was owning keyboard turners in arena just by standing behind them lowering their damage close to zero while still keeping mine up.

[AsheraII]

When playing warrior in WoW it was very important to stand BEHIND your target at all times. There was not a chance in hell you could have played good as a clicker.

I was owning keyboard turners in arena just by standing behind them lowering their damage close to zero while still keeping mine up.

Except if your warrior was supposed to be the one tanking.

A proper tank also kept the boss on one spot, so you didn't have to worry much about repositioning yourself all the time. Even a clicker can strafe enough to position themselves properly.

In PvP, I could strafe around another player using my keys instead of the mouse. Mouse worked more conveniently, but sometimes I did it using the keyboard. Though I always found it a rediculous tactic in the first place. Yes, it sadly worked in WoW, but that's not the point. It simply looked rediculous and totally unrealistic.

 

As far as I care, Bioware updates the engine to add auto facing to PvP as well, to kick down hard on the rediculous circlestrafing strategy. Only offensive, not defensive, so a player can still move behind another for backstab like attacks, but so the other player can also still fight back. If they don't actually turn around to face the target and leave their back open for the more damaging attacks then that's their problem though.

[LadyVix]

When playing warrior in WoW it was very important to stand BEHIND your target at all times. There was not a chance in hell you could have played good as a clicker.

I was owning keyboard turners in arena just by standing behind them lowering their damage close to zero while still keeping mine up.

 

Someone apparently can't understand that clicking is NOT synonymous with keyboard turning. The two are separate issues altogether.

 

With the number of MMO players today, there are certainly exceptions to every rule. What works best for you isn't necessarily the best choice for others, and blanket statements like binding is indisputably better than clicking serves to do nothing more than to polarize the different sides.

 

Seen through my eyes, moving forward with the up arrow, backwards with the down arrow, strafe left with the left arrow and strafe right with the right arrow while turning with my mouse is the undisputed best way to move. Period. You may not agree, but then again you're probably not left handed, nor do you suffer from a debilitating health ailment that directly influences your ability to quickly push the top level number keys and F keys. Several of you saying that you need to work on "muscle memory," but what about people like me that suffer Parkinson's disease and have diminished fine motor skills and movement? Keybinding is a SEVERE hindrance not an advantage to me, and all the arguing in the world won't change that fact. (unfortunately) Sliding a mouse to click is easier, and thus better for me.

[Stevebudz]

No, dont tell the baddies how to become better, then I wont have free kills in a warzone.

[beefyandbeef]

Holy Crap people have no life....

[LadyVix]

No, dont tell the baddies how to become better, then I wont have free kills in a warzone.

 

L2P and you won't have to rely on free kills.

 

I'm not the best, but 6k kills in 6 weeks averages out to ~1k kills a week. Not horribly bad IMO.

Edited January 25, 2013 by LadyVix