So much for not charging subs for Makeb

[CelCawdro]

The true issue about the expansion is that some subscribers felt that the expansion would be free and they did not have to pay for it or that the content in the expansion is not enough to justify calling it an expansion, but a content update. I get that and understand why some people are upset over it.

 

But as other people have posted previously or in other threads, circumstances have changed and not just for Swtor, but in the whole MMORPG gaming industry. New trends of going F2P is becoming more of a popular business model that does not require customer loyalty over a long period of time, but more like cash grabs of how much profit they can make at the shortest amount of time.

 

I too thought it was going to be free, but it is their product, so they can do whatever they want with it and that means charging people whatever they felt like. Its only $10 and not enough for me to get into an emotional outburst. Plus I look at it this way, if Makeb has more content than what you can normally buy for $10, then get it. If not, then don't get it. Currently as it stands it has more content than what I could ever get from a Quiznos Sub, a movie ticket, a long island ice tea, a shot of Patron at a bar, a taxi cab ride, a manga, a magazine, toll fare over the George Washington Bridge, ect & ect. The list could go on and on, but I won't.

 

As I've stated before, the only thing about this that really gets on my nerves is the total lack of transparency. There is nothing wrong with BioWare changing their minds - the problem arises when players are left to speculate and bicker about the reasons why they did so. Both "sides" of the issue have completely legitimate points. Yes, BioWare changed their stance. Yes, they had reason for doing so. But a little elaboration would be very nice.

 

It's this trend toward opacity that is most worrisome.

[LUCASCASADEIS]

oh nooooooooo oh noooooooooooo. i cannot buy my hamburger if i pay this expansion which will give me hours and hours of fun.

[AshlaBoga]

I don't think the makeb and content we are getting is the original 1.4 makeb. I'm sure the planet and data files are but I think it's obvious they decided to extend the level cap and have turned the makeb patch into something more than makeb alone.

 

IF that be the case, I have no problem paying $10 for it.

 

The biggest planets in this game are Belsavis and Hoth (and Tatooine, Balmorra and Taris aren't too far behind).

 

These planets are not worth paying $5 for. I'd pay $2 for them I guess. So $8 of value is coming from the +5 levels, datacrons (datacrons, datacrons, datacrons) and who knows what else? Yeah, I'm not pre-ordering, I'm waiting till this has been live for a week to make up my mind.

 

I'm guessing that it's going to be a barren, static planet with 4-8 hours of missions (more if you don't spacebar) and a new Operation (Scum & Villainy). But let's face it, the only thing on that list I'd pay $5 for would be the new Op (which hasn't been confirmed to be a part of Makeb).

[LUCASCASADEIS]

The biggest planets in this game are Belsavis and Hoth (and Tatooine, Balmorra and Taris aren't too far behind).

 

These planets are not worth paying $5 for. I'd pay $2 for them I guess. So $8 of value is coming from the +5 levels, datacrons (datacrons, datacrons, datacrons) and who knows what else? Yeah, I'm not pre-ordering, I'm waiting till this has been live for a week to make up my mind.

 

I'm guessing that it's going to be a barren, static planet with 4-8 hours of missions (more if you don't spacebar) and a new Operation (Scum & Villainy). But let's face it, the only thing on that list I'd pay $5 for would be the new Op (which hasn't been confirmed to be a part of Makeb).

 

you are also paying for level cap

world pvp

class story (same one)

gear

skill tree

abilities

and more things of course

 

this is a complete planet. 10 dolars is fine for me

[Spiritinblack]

you are also paying for level cap

world pvp

class story (same one)

gear

skill tree

abilities

and more things of course

 

this is a complete planet. 10 dolars is fine for me

 

Please stop saying class story. It is not. And it is misleading when you do.

[LUCASCASADEIS]

Please stop saying class story. It is not. And it is misleading when you do.

 

i put (same one) i can live with the same class story for the 4 classes

[Spiritinblack]

i put (same one) i can live with the same class story for the 4 classes

 

It's not class story. ( they have told us this). You putting same one means nothing. ( I'm not flaming you either)

I know English is not your first lang. Just letting you know that it is misleading for those that don't come to the boards often.

( again not flaming you .....just don't want to see the "they promised us class story" threads pop up)

[kamed]

As I've stated before, the only thing about this that really gets on my nerves is the total lack of transparency. There is nothing wrong with BioWare changing their minds - the problem arises when players are left to speculate and bicker about the reasons why they did so. Both "sides" of the issue have completely legitimate points. Yes, BioWare changed their stance. Yes, they had reason for doing so. But a little elaboration would be very nice.

 

It's this trend toward opacity that is most worrisome.

 

I agree, there should be more communication with Bioware about what they are releasing and update us from time to time with what they are working on since it leave a lot of subscribers bewildered and confused.

 

I think that if Bioware developers or employees could release information about the stuff they are working on, they most certainly would. But then as soon as they do, they would be held accountable for any commitments they make for it. So communication could be used against them as we have witnessed with the whole Makeb being free debate.

[pantognost]

Interesting; I show compassion and you just reflect back your own anger. To answer your question, my father was a wonderful a caring man who died too young. I have no uncles. I turn a blind eye to the "cash grabs'" for one simple reason: I don't care and don't need to. The difference between $10 and free is not enough to generate any concern for me. I don't buy most of the stuff in the cash shop. I spend most of my coins on unlocks. I hate holiday events, so I'm happy they didn't disrupt the game with a "Life Day" Christmas event.

 

Question for you: what could EA say that would make you happy? Or is it a situation where they must start doing what you believe is in the best interest of the game otherwise you will still be angry.

 

I take it that just giving Makeb to subscribers for free would not be enough. I do think you might have a chance at that, since a similar thing happened with DCUO and other games.

 

EDIT: Did this just get merged with the older thread?

 

You know, I think your personal remarks are genuine (i.e. no trolling) but I also think that you can understand that they can be construed as patronizing by someone on the other side of your argument, yes?

I, on the other hand, sincerely want to know, beyond personal feelings and preferences, do you think that the inconsistencies in promise and delivery (Makeb free-NOT), the abandonment of the unique features of the game (no more personal story - "avengers" style faction story) and the heavy monetization of the games content are helping towards a better player experience and a long lasting swtor?

 

And yes, this was merged in the mega thread.

[Master-Nala]

Communication.

 

That's fair. Bioware does need to get much better about this.

 

Stop whats already started with the Cartel Store being the core of development. Crystals, mounts, unique armors should be obtainable ingame AND on the Store not ONLY in the Store.

 

This sadly, I think you're going to have to accept or move on. In my experience, no F2P conversion that has caved on this. For revenue protection, they need to make the market goods exclusive to the market. I think they did a great thing by making almost everything tradeable.

 

It doesnt matter if you personally dont want an event its obviously something the majority wanted.

 

I'm sorry, but you can't claim the majority wanted anything unless you cite to a statistically significant survey of the playerbase. The forums represent the most passionate minority of players in any game and are not representative.

 

BW could start standing by its promises and stop releasing half done content full of bugs. We WILL test it. Use the PTS! Its what its for! This crap where raids are broken or any of the other obviously untested bugs are inexcusable.

 

Another point of agreement. I think it's completely ridiculous that they haven't created a character copy or added a beta buffer to the PTS. I have stopped bothering to test because even though I have a 50 over there, she's well undergeared for current content.

 

LISTEN to us when we say something is broken and dont push it out take it off and fix it if you want to release the rest so badly.

 

But you must admit, that if they did that, others would be complaining about the lack of content. Different populations of gamers have different desires and Bioware has to balance that no?

 

Just start doing quality work, care for the game, and start fixing things. Its really not hard. And yes if Makeb was free for subscribers like it SHOULD be (F2P SHOULD have to pay for it were paying a sub for something after all and dont give me the "only to log in" line) I wouldnt have given a **** about them charging. They are abusing subscribers pure and simple.

 

As to Makeb, I genuienly don't care, because $10 is close enough free that it doesn't matter. I agree that the F2P players should have to pay and I think it's fair they have to pay more.

 

My anger is because I love Star Wars and I love playing this game with my friends and my gf who I think loves it more than me but its becoming increasingly difficult to do that with every step in the wrong direction they go. I played it all through Beta and have never let my sub lapse. I want it to be the worthy game it can and should be not this...cash grab for EA to bring out behind the shed to shoot when they are done like they have to Mythic, Bullfrog, and my personal favorite Westwood. God I miss Westwood Studios.

 

Edit: Yes they did just merge this. Holy crap 128 pages.

 

I understand your frustration, I really do. But again, at some point you got to vote with your wallet.

[maestruljedi]

Trolling usually requires saying something inflammatory. I have been called various names and have not responded in kind. In fact, I have shown compassion for the posters feeling and given them a sensible suggestion, quitting, to deal with their issues. If that makes me a troll, then I will gladly take on that epithet.

Again, if I like the game and am happy with the direction, that makes me a fanboi in your eyes. If so, the again, I will take on that with pride.

 

Hm, perhaps i've misjudged you. After all, personal preference is what is all about. If you're happy, that's cool. But your campaign seems very close to actually supporting EA's behavior.

 

See, I agree with all that. But look at your last sentence. You're saying if you don't like what they are doing, then you will leave. THAT IS THE RIGHT RESPONSE. I played EQ2 for 7 1/2 years. But when it became clear that they just weren't going to take the game in a direction that I like, I quit. Didn't look back.

I perfectly understand what you're saying. When i quit WoW after some 5 years, 10 chars to max level, professions, gear and all that, i never looked back either. But there was a subtle yet very important difference: i felt like i got the bang for my buck. All those years and all those money weren't wasted. If i quit SWTOR now, i feel like i wasted my money, like i didn't actually get what i paid for.

 

I agree. Some of the details are probably a bit off, but in general, I too think that's exactly what happened. It just doesn't make me mad.

Well, it should. This isn't the dark ages. Humanity should be driven by higher intentions.

 

Again, I agree. You most certainly can expect to be nickle and dimed for everything. Now, the question comes, what do you do about it? For me, because I have enough nickles and dimes and quarters and dollars so as to not be concerned about it, I will continue to pay so long as I enjoy the game. The very second I stop enjoying the game, I uninstall and move on to some other form of entertainment.

That's a very healthy attitude, but it also plays right into what EA wants. Don't get me wrong, i spent some cash for Cartel Market items too. So primarily i'm angry at myself because their tactic worked. But if it works, it will encourage it, and they'll keep employing it, and is that really the game we wanted a year ago ?

 

The only goal of a corporation's management is to increase shareholder value. Or in other word's greed. They are entitled to get there via any lawful means. As customers, we only have the ability to pay or not pay and give feedback. That's it.

Yeah, but they could be smarter about it. It's about long term planning. It is legal, but it's just bad business and short-term gain.

 

EA is being crappy to subscribers. There I said it. I actually believe that too. Not for the exact same reasons you do, but I don't like everything about this game either. I'm not happy about the sky-high prices for decent looking armor sets in the market. I have been asking them since I got here to just create an outfit like Luke's in RoTJ or Anakin's in RoTS. I hate expertise. I hate that the endgame is just another tired endgame gear grind.

I hate the same things. It's like they dug up the old cosmetic gear threads, created what community wanted and put a price tag on it, doesn't it ? And because we're suckers and we're invested in our toons because we love SW and we're geeks, we actually buy that crap. Because our love/loyalty/nerdiness/fanboiness to the franchise makes us actually come up with the money to pay for what we want. EA is monetizing on that and it makes them look like jerks and makes me feel like an idiot. It's not good business, not in the long run.

 

I have expressed all of this on the boards. But I don't insult those who disagree with me. I don't think EA is evil for not doing what I want. And, on balance, I still like the game so I pay to play it.

Apologies if i offended you, but i do believe EA is overly greedy and intentionally short-sighted, and that makes them cartoonishly evil.

[aeterno]

We just have to face reality here.

 

The game didn't do as well as hoped. If we want future story content we're gonna have to pay for it as we go. I don't like it but there it is. There isn't enough revenue for them to operate like WoW does.

 

When faced with a choice of forking up 10$ for content like makeb or the game going "maintenance mode" with minimalistic "black hole section" like updates where they only use the simplest mechanics and quest terminals I choose to pay. To at least help the ball rolling for a while more, to the first "proper" (not digital) expansion.

Edited December 20, 2012 by aeterno

[OrshabaalLord]

http://www.swtor.com/buy

 

Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. Is all we ever hear from you bioware. 5 lvl cap increase and 1 planet is your definition of paid expansion bioware? Really?

 

 

You sound like a 12 year old who didn't get what they want. It wasn't promised it was just said it may be free for subscribers. Things change? So what?

 

OHMYGOD $10.....

[ninjanevek]

Seems like just another money train to me, although the expansion doesn't cost much on it's own. Think in term's of the future when 3-5 expansions have released while you've been inactive or you are a newcomer and you have to pay a hefty fee just to be up to date with everyone else and experience the game in it's entirety. Of coarse nobody knows how often these " Expansions " are going to be released, they could be every 3 month's for all anyone knows.

[Spiritinblack]

Seems like just another money train to me, although the expansion doesn't cost much on it's own. Think in term's of the future when 3-5 expansions have released while you've been inactive or you are a newcomer and you have to pay a hefty fee just to be up to date with everyone else and experience the game in it's entirety. Of coarse nobody knows how often these " Expansions " are going to be released, they could be every 3 month's for all anyone knows.

 

I'll agree on the money grab part. I think it is, and they are trying to make a quick grab for the holiday.

 

The rest though, is normal for ANY game out there.

[CelCawdro]

I agree, there should be more communication with Bioware about what they are releasing and update us from time to time with what they are working on since it leave a lot of subscribers bewildered and confused.

 

I think that if Bioware developers or employees could release information about the stuff they are working on, they most certainly would. But then as soon as they do, they would be held accountable for any commitments they make for it. So communication could be used against them as we have witnessed with the whole Makeb being free debate.

 

Alluding to specific future content is bad. Talking about general trends is great. And discussing existing/immediately impending content is best.

[Taorus]

you are also paying for level cap

world pvp I have World PVP now. But to be truth people don't want to World pvp, No shiny's.

class story (same one) No. We are gettting world arc. I have no proplem with a world arc. I was just correcting you.

gear I have gear now. They add "New";) gear on Cartel market ever other week or so.

skill tree No. once again no new tree. just 5 points add to old tree.

abilities Only thing you may be right about

and more things of course

 

this is a complete planet. 10 dolars is fine for me

 

Someone also mentioned Nightmare Mode for existing FP's. "One new trick, a new FP doesn't not make" - Yoda

 

When I go to a Resturant, The hostess does not hand me the check, Before I am seated.

 

 

My favorite is I am forgetting the Mr. Jeff Hickman two months after Mr. James Ohlen said it was a large content patch, Mr. Hickman said EA/BioWare wasn't sure if we would get charged. No. I didn't forget. I was one of many who said "Wait and see." Check my posting history. I knew before that we were gonna get charged from the prior leaked survey that everyone said was bogus....But so far every single that about that survey has come to fold, and have no problem with paying $9.99 for Makeb. Yes its $9.99, Not 10 Dollars or 10 bux<? $9.99. Yes I know people gonna come in here and say there is no difference between $9.99 and ten dollars, there is. Yes things happened game went F2P, I completely understand. Please feel free to defend EA/Bioware and their actions, What is truly saddening is they themselves cannot. For if they could, they would have come out some and explain why they did. They would have contacted one of the many game news outlets and put out a press release. Every single gaming company when the release a new expansion, make a video to hype said expansion. EA/BioWare cannot put out a video of it....We have already seen the video, way back during E 3. Sadly in all likelihood they are hard at work, not fix's bugs and not adding content to Makeb. But editing an old video so that they can say look NEW.

 

I do have want to look forward to new content coming to my favorite video game, But my interest must be tempered with caution. EA/BioWare has in the past few months, SWTOR does not get new, it gets re-colored. I agree lets wait and see. But unfortunately, I have waited and from I see, a content patch becomes and expansion...lite.

 

All I am told from people that know about as much or less about Makeb is its, Only 10 dollars( You can't even get the price right). I don't know what in it, It could be more.(Could be less)

 

I do not hate SWTOR. I play alot, so does my wife and one of my five children. No, My opinion is not wrong, neither is yours. I do not like being charged for a content patch. I have no problem paying for an expansion, small, medium or large. I have a problem when I am told something will be free, But do too a changing of a single world becomes a charge.

 

I am a very old fashion type of guy, When someone gives their word I expect that they keep it, I do. Why am I being told I should not expect that from others? It's not about $9.99

Edited December 20, 2012 by Taorus

[DAMossimo]

You sound like a 12 year old who didn't get what they want. It wasn't promised it was just said it may be free for subscribers. Things change? So what?

 

OHMYGOD $10.....

 

This seems to be one of the most popular arguments as to why someone should purchase the "expansion":

 

OMG it's only $10!!! -> translation: You should just buy it because if you don't you're just a cheap pennypincher.

 

That's not a good marketing angle. Sounds alot more like peer pressure to me. Which has never pushed me into making any decision. In fact, it tends to sour the argument considerably.

[Taorus]

This seems to be one of the most popular arguments as to why someone should purchase the "expansion":

 

OMG it's only $10!!! -> translation: You should just buy it because if you don't you're just a cheap pennypincher.

 

That's not a good marketing angle. Sounds alot more like peer pressure to me. Which has never pushed me into making any decision. In fact, it tends to sour the argument considerably.

 

The weak minded, never have the strongest argument.

[WNxAbaddon]

Well look what I found, a OLD blog, review whatever you wanna call it with some interesting bits of info imho

 

Link to source

 

EA blames us and to some extent they’re right to. but it was fan feedback from the day we opened the forums that encouraged us to design it for the fans the way it is and that included making it more like Kotor then an MMO like Wow. Also from what I have heard in the halls, Starwars Galaxies was shut down due to the fact are talks with LA, EA suits ecouraged the new guy at LA to increase the licensing fee at renewal time. it was a move to remove any direct competiton to TOR.

 

I don’t want anyone to be upset by this. but many of these changes had been in the “planning stages” for many months since the sharp drop in subscribers. many parts of the game will cost money to access. for example you can unlock the new “cathar” race in your legacy. but buying the unlock, it will cost 10$ US

 

Taken from the link, Highlighted in red, Ill just leave this there, it seems this was in the works for awhile huh, so it seems from before July 24, 2012 they planed to bleed us dry ?

 

Waits for the fan boys to attack.

Edited December 20, 2012 by WNxAbaddon

[KariTalRathe]

It was dumb for BW to even say expansions would be free. They are never free in any successful MMO. They really shot themselves in the foot with that statement

 

Again, this is a load of baloney. NCSoft's Lineage 1 and 2 - which together made up 50% of the total MMO subscription market back in the late nineties/early noughties - never charged a cent for their expansions. They also created the innovative "buy the box, play free" Guild Wars. And, as already mentioned, Turbine provide the means to earn the LotRO expansions in game.

 

It's going to take a while for the 'FTP' market to find standards that work best for the companies and the consumers. At the moment I think a lot of us feel like guinea pigs for the gaming industry - "just how much can we screw out of them before they give up and leave?" - and as much as I love Bioware games, they are the company whose cynical business practices tick me off the most.

[Durasturan]

Again, this is a load of baloney. NCSoft's Lineage 1 and 2 - which together made up 50% of the total MMO subscription market back in the late nineties/early noughties - never charged a cent for their expansions. They also created the innovative "buy the box, play free" Guild Wars. And, as already mentioned, Turbine provide the means to earn the LotRO expansions in game.

 

It's going to take a while for the 'FTP' market to find standards that work best for the companies and the consumers. At the moment I think a lot of us feel like guinea pigs for the gaming industry - "just how much can we screw out of them before they give up and leave?" - and as much as I love Bioware games, they are the company whose cynical business practices tick me off the most.

 

While I agree with everything you say, I would just like to add one thing to it. This "expansion" only became an expansion once they decided to charge for it. Up until then it was "The largest non expansion piece of content any game has ever released.

 

And as far as their business practices go... The moment the big developers started spending more on marketing than on development I knew that most of my money was going to be going to Indie developers. Call my cynical but but most AAA studios only care about convincing you to buy the game, not actually making a game worth buying. And once they got your money it's "screw you, got mine."

[Quraswren]

Someone also mentioned Nightmare Mode for existing FP's. "One new trick, a new FP doesn't not make" - Yoda

 

Agreed - that would suck if we got no new FP's or OPS at level 55 and instead only got new difficulty levels.

 

When I go to a Resturant, The hostess does not hand me the check, Before I am seated.

 

You're right. She will not do that. However:

You will pay for a movie ticket before you get to go in and watch it.

You will pay for a book before can take it home and read it.

 

Sure, you can read or watch something to get some info on either but you're going to do that for food as well.

You can also pre-order any of them (including food). Sounds very similar to SWTOR does it not?

 

The rest of your post I found to just be some rambling except this past part.

 

I am a very old fashion type of guy, When someone gives their word I expect that they keep it, I do. Why am I being told I should not expect that from others? It's not about $9.99

 

We'll your old fashion ideals no longer work in today's software development world where at anytime things can change. You we're not promised anything and no specific words we're given to you as some unchanging doctrine.

 

When it comes to games and there development. It would be best given your aged mentality, to read nothing about a game during it's development cycle since it could be changed the very next week and you not be informed till months later.

 

You now see why game companies are hesitant to say anything to gamers. Look how we act when something that was never written in stone and never promised is changed.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Quraswren

[alifaraaz]

Its a small enough price that I don't really care. Less than a months sub.

 

I am slightly disappointed that they didnt make it buyable through Cartel Coins, as I felt that would have been the fairest way, as Subs could save up monthly allowance for it.

 

But again, small price for a small expansion is fine by me.

[Quraswren]

Its a small enough price that I don't really care. Less than a months sub.

 

I am slightly disappointed that they didnt make it buyable through Cartel Coins, as I felt that would have been the fairest way, as Subs could save up monthly allowance for it.

 

But again, small price for a small expansion is fine by me.

 

I agree with that.

 

It's a little bit of a disappointment. Even if you spent every free coin you got, you could have saved up the monthly allowance a subscription gets you and bought it with nothing more out of pocket. It would have been a nice perk.

 

However, it's not going to happen and $10 is not expensive at all for most.