FTP is Too "Free". Please adjust model.

[Galbatorrix]

I count one ad hominem attack. Considering you did the same, I think we're even.

 

You made two. One toward me and one toward the entire human race. And apparently, you don't know what an ad hominem attack is either.

 

 

Saying you don't know how business works = not ad hominem. Saying that you probably rob banks for a living because you don't know how business works = ad hominem.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Beslley]

You made two. One toward me and one toward the entire human race. And apparently, you don't know what an ad hominem attack is either.

 

See my above edit. Ohohoho.

[Mazikeen]

A person can play the entire storyline of every class in the game, on either side of the conflict, without paying a dime! Really?

 

Hi! I'm a Founder too! Guess what that means? NOTHING

 

Limited UI options

Limited gearing options

Limits to Flashpoints/Warzones

Companion limits

 

These are just off the top of my head, but they're the bigger ones. So, yeah, if you think paying a sub doesn't give you significantly more you've got issues...

[Beslley]

You made two. One toward me and one toward the entire human race. And apparently, you don't know what an ad hominem attack is either.

 

 

Saying you don't know how business works = not ad hominem. Saying that you probably rob banks for a living because you don't know how business works = ad hominem.

 

You implied that I was a freeloader, or at the very least implying that I believe everyone should get everything for free earlier on (nevermind the fact that I am in fact a subscriber and that my views are nowhere near as extreme as you claim them to be).

 

You will also note that in no place did I say that F2Pers should get the whole game for free, so I believe you are misinterpreting me (at best). If advocating for full UI functionality and the ability to color match and hide helm (along with possibly a few bank slots - I'm not even talking about a whole tab, but a few spaces at the very least) is unreasonable in your eyes, then I guess I am in fact a big fat socialist commie freeloader.

 

That was a joke, by the way. I know that socialists and communists are not the same thing. You seemed to have issues with my comprehension before, so I figured I'd clarify since you're taking this awfully seriously.

 

P.S. Jeremy Irons was the best thing to happen to the Eragon franchise, and even he couldn't save it. Poor Jeremy Irons.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Beslley

[JimG]

Hi! I'm a Founder too! Guess what that means? NOTHING

 

LOL, yeah, I love when people call themselves a "Founder" like they founded the game or founded BW, lol. Dave Thomas was the "founder" of Wendy's...he started a company....everyone here is just someone who bought the game within the first 3 months of launch. So you didn't even need to be here from the beginning either...the deadline was sometime in March to get the "Founder" title. Anytime you see a thread started off with "I'm a Founder" or "I've been here since beta" or "I'm a CE owner", you can pretty much tell where that thread is headed, ha.

[Galbatorrix]

You implied that I was a freeloader, or at the very least implying that I believe everyone should get everything for free earlier on (nevermind the fact that I am in fact a subscriber and that my views are nowhere near as extreme as you claim them to be).

 

You will also note that in no place did I say that F2Pers should get the whole game for free, so I believe you are misinterpreting me (at best). If advocating for full UI functionality and the ability to color match and hide helm (along with possibly a few bank slots - I'm not even talking about a whole tab, but a few spaces at the very least) is unreasonable in your eyes, then I guess I am in fact a big fat socialist commie freeloader.

 

That was a joke, by the way. I know that socialists and communists are not the same thing. You seemed to have issues with my comprehension before, so I figured I'd clarify since you're taking this awfully seriously.

 

P.S. Jeremy Irons was the best thing to happen to the Eragon franchise, and even he couldn't save it. Poor Jeremy Irons.

 

 

Honestly, I just don't see the issue. If having an extra quick bar, hide head slot, unify, etc are so important, they could spend a few bucks and be done with it. If Bioware made those option unobtainable, I'd understand your argument.

 

 

Speaking of which, that's the biggest issue I've had with most of these arguments. I keep hearing things like "The game is impossible with 2 quick bars!", or "Limiting the UI is unacceptable!". The arguments are almost presented in a way that indicates that these players simply have no way of accessing these features. Which is obviously not the case. These are aesthetic features and conveniences. People can play with out them ,or spend a few bucks. I don't get why it's such a huge deal.

 

 

Also, I actually read the whole Eragon book series. While not great, it was an ok fantasy read. The movie was awful though.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Beslley]

Honestly, I just don't see the issue. If having an extra quick bar, hide head slot, unify, etc are so important, they could spend a few bucks and be done with it. If Bioware made those option unobtainable, I'd understand your argument.

 

 

Speaking of which, that's the biggest issue I've had with most of these arguments. I keep hearing things like "The game is impossible with 2 quick bars!", or "Limiting the UI is unacceptable!". The arguments are almost presented in a way that indicates that these players simply have no way of accessing these features. Which is obviously not the case. These are aesthetic features and conveniences. People can play with out them ,or spend a few bucks. I don't get why it's such a huge deal.

 

 

Also, I actually read the whole Eragon book series. While not great, it was an ok fantasy read. The movie was awful though.

 

The issue isn't that these things are necessary to play (though I'd argue you need at least 3 bars for most classes in order to play WELL, and more depending on the class - I wouldn't play a jugg or mara without 4 bars minimum), it's about how these limitations are perceived by new players and how it affects the enjoyment of the game. For someone on the fence about whether to pick up and play SWTOR, I'd say that the two bar limitation is a big deal, especially for people coming from other MMOs.

 

I know this is only anecdotal, but I had 3-4 friends and my significant other lined up to play SWTOR with me once it hit F2P. They were all Star Wars fans, and nearly all of them had played KOTOR 1 and 2. They figured, at the very least, they could experience the story as a sort of "KOTOR 3", and maybe pick up a new MMO to play in the process. All of them had been involved in some way with WoW, and were frankly tired of it and looking for something fresh.

 

Sadly, none of them got very far, because they found some restrictions, namely the ones I mentioned above, to be silly, and slightly underhanded. None of them ended up sticking around, not even for the story. These are people who WANTED to like SWTOR. If BIoware can't convince my friends to stay, how is the company going to convince naysayers who come in to try the game to stick around?

 

Which, in the end, is really what it's all about. SWTOR desperately needs new blood, and a fresh influx of cash. They can't rest their laurels on a dwindling sub base and their cash shop purchases. They need the F2Pers to stick around and spend money, and I just don't think Bioware can do it with the current restrictions.

 

I suppose we'll see if I'm right in the coming months.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Beslley

[LovarBoy]

BS. I can't even play all of the classes in LOTRO without paying. I also have to pay for new areas so I can advance, pay for a horse, etc, etc. And you can't play Monster play at all.

 

You know why?

 

Because 2 classes were made available with the first expansion and not with Shadows of Angmar.

 

As a whole, the Lotro F2P model is far better than this "BS".

[SOULCASTER]

Dear Bioware,

 

As a Founder and subscriber, I'm a little dismayed that you are willing to give away so much of the game, that I pay for each month. Dont get me wrong, I like FTP options as I do think they are beneficial to the ongoing development of a game. However, the path you have chosen is unpredented in how much it gives for nothing.

 

A person can play the entire storyline of every class in the game, on either side of the conflict, without paying a dime! Really? That's a bit much IMO, and sort of a slap to us that pay monthly. As a suggestion I would like to see a more LOTRO type of model where a FTP'r has to buy quest packs and zone unlocks in order to progress. This method allows the FTP'ers a choice in what parts of the game they want to play WITHOUT angering those that pay a monthly subscription.

 

What you have done here is decide to just give the game away. I trust you know what you are doing here, but I, for one, am not too crazy about it.

 

Thank you,

 

Klarick

FOUNDER

 

I am a collectors edition owner, and active subscriber since early access (and still subscribing), and I think you sir, are a joke. I like your signature: "FOUNDER" That is the icing on the cake for topping off your entire ''entitlement'' thread rant.

 

This games F2P is TOO restrictive, contrary to you thinking its not restrictive enough.

[eliteninja]

Honestly, I just don't see the issue. If having an extra quick bar, hide head slot, unify, etc are so important, they could spend a few bucks and be done with it. If Bioware made those option unobtainable, I'd understand your argument.

 

Theres no issue at all, but the way it is presented to new comming players is awfull and misleading, you must expect people to complain for blindly comming back to a game that claims to be "free" and expecting a completely playable experience you know, and im not even implying that they should be getting EVERYTHING4FREE but not needing to spend money and i mean not a single cent to be a competent if not decent player. Because having more Quick Bars or being able to wear certain type of gear that f2p can't use without paying, it does gives you a direct advantage over them and yes thats pay2win.

 

Now im talking about being able to get everything INGAME even if it takes 3-5 levels, 20-30 hours more than a subbed member wich could not be happening any time soon as if i remember correctly bioware confirmed no ingame way of getting CC's awful decision btw. yea also being a sub or a founder doesn't makes you a god's child just a guy who says "hey i support your game" and im sure many members appreciate it but seriously some of oyu should chill or just stop posting for ever.

 

What should be the only thing subs get ,well thats up to bioware but to be honest its quite simplemaybe a week early access to ALL the new contents and of course get em for free, no queues in any place, a title, few weekly/monthly CC and thats it.

 

Now most post are reduced to Fanboys vs People who want what bioware promised a new way of playing the game not an extended free trial, theres even no discussion at all just a "hey man im a sub and i think f2p is good kay thanks pay or leave no care #420blazel33t" and from preferred "Kay fanboy your game's dead" responses.

 

wheres the answer? theres a ******** of posts with the answers, not going to go to much in that because my post is already kinda long but F2P Cash shop should mainly be focused to cosmetic purposes (hell you'll be getting your main income of cash from f2p community by just selling good looking outfits,pets,veichles) housing and sell EXPANSIONS of quests/story from the point you guys are wich could be from the new droid quest, selling the endgame is fine, maybe even the newest Warzones and FP but cutting up the game by putting alot of little walls every here and there is not the answer.

 

On the other hand you could just make F2P and Sub servers, subs would be able to log in to the f2p servers but will get all the restrictions of em.. you know to make it a fair experience.

 

Now im not sure why some people are defending bioware so hard when clearly the system could improve with some feedback BECAUSE IT REALLY needs too. I like what they did with games like ME or DoA but that doesn't mean i have to go on every thread saying everything the do is correct.

Edited November 19, 2012 by eliteninja

[JimboJankins]

Personally I have to agree that giving the entire first 49 levels away for free is a bit much. People compare swtor to wow. ok fair enough. Lets talk about a game that has had 8 years to work out bugs perfect their game and cater to their fans. Only first 20 levels are "free forever". SWTOR should have adopted that into the game to entice people to start playing. Honestly trying to bring someone back to the game who posts on the forums how terrible the game is, well, it's stupid. It's like getting into a fight with your loved/hated one, breaking up, getting back together and fighting all over again (rinse repeat). It's gona end violently. Be adults and go your separate ways. I personally say if people want everything for free Bioware should do patches, new content, expansions, and everything else for an MMO for free to cater to those crying it's not worth it, or I need an extra quick-bar, or I want to pvp forever and not pay maintenance fee's. This will make everyone happy as noone will ever have to pay to play the game again. They'll shut it down for obvious reasons but lets face it....you can't give everyone everything they want or you'd end up as previously stated giving it all away for free. People just need to face the facts and accept the game the way it is. You really only have 3 choices, accept it, change it (which unless you're a dev that's gona be a no), or get rid of it. So for most of us the only 2 options are accept it or get rid of it. You left for a reason. Think about why you left before you cry about coming back.

[Galbatorrix]

Theres no issue at all, but the way it is presented to new comming players is awfull and misleading, you must expect people to complain for blindly comming back to a game that claims to be "free" and expecting a completely playable experience you know, and im not even implying that they should be getting EVERYTHING4FREE but not needing to spend money and i mean not a single cent to be a competent if not decent player. Because having more Quick Bars or being able to wear certain type of gear that f2p can't use without paying, does gives you a direct advantage over them and yes thats pay2win.

 

Now im talking about being able to get everything INGAME even if it takes 3-5 levels, 20-30 hours more than a subbed member (yea being a sub or a founder doesn't makes you a god's child just a guy who says "hey i support your game") wich could not be happening any time soon as if i remember correctly bioware confirmed no ingame way of getting CC's awful decision btw.

 

What should be the only thing subs get ,well thats up to bioware but to be honest its quite simplemaybe a week early access to ALL the new contents and of course get em for free, no queues in any place, a title, few weekly/monthly CC and thats it.

 

Now most post are reduced to Fanboys vs People who want what bioware promised a new way of playing the game not an extended free trial, theres even no discussion at all just a "hey man im a sub and i think f2p is good kay thanks pay or leave no care #420blazel33t" and from preferred "Kay fanboy your game's dead" responses.

 

wheres the answer? theres a ******** of posts with the answers, not going to go to much in that because my post is already kinda long but F2P Cash shop should mainly be focused to cosmetic purposes (hell you'll be getting your main income of cash from f2p community by just selling good looking outfits,pets,veichles) housing and sell EXPANSIONS of quests/story from the point you guys are wich could be from the new droid quest, selling the endgame is fine, maybe even the newest Warzones and FP but cutting up the game by putting alot of little walls every here and there is not the answer.

 

On the other hand you could just make F2P and Sub servers, subs would be able to log in to the f2p servers but will get all the restrictions of em.. you know to make it a fair experience.

 

Now im not sure why some people are defending bioware so hard when clearly the system could improve with some feedback BECAUSE IT REALLY needs too. I like what they did with games like ME or DoA but that doesn't mean i have to go on every thread saying everything the do is correct.

 

 

If they followed your advice, subbing would be a complete waste of money and NO ONE would do it. Sorry, but your ideas are terrible. I mean, a "fair" experience? It's not fair because they have to pay for purple gear? Well, guess what, Subbed players have to pay for purple gear too. We also have to pay for full access to quick bars. If F2Pers refuse to customize their game by spending a few bucks, they don't deserve to play competitively.

 

 

Seriously... if Bioware offered so little value for a sub over F2P, I'd unsub right away.

[eliteninja]

If they followed your advice, subbing would be a complete waste of money and NO ONE would do it. Sorry, but your ideas are terrible. I mean, a "fair" experience? It's not fair because they have to pay for purple gear? Well, guess what, Subbed players have to pay for purple gear too. We also have to pay for full access to quick bars. If F2Pers refuse to customize their game by spending a few bucks, they don't deserve to play competitively.

 

Seriously... if Bioware offered so little value for a sub over F2P, I'd unsub right away.

 

Maybe i failed to explain some of my points because i didn't want to elaborate to much on em to avoid making a wall text even tho i still did.

 

But basically yes i said that so F2P can get a "fair" experience (with the system how it is anyways) it would be dividing servers into f2p and subs servers. Subs would have all what they have but if they want to come to pvp/raid or whatever with the F2P crowd they would have to play with their restrictions.

 

what would you be gaining as a sub? like i said free/early access to all the new content not saying that f2p will get it after that week for free but that you'll be playing it before they can even have the option to PAY for it, no queues, free CC's

I mean what else could you want for a sub? an ultimate item to 1shot f2p's. lol

Edited November 19, 2012 by eliteninja

[JimboJankins]

If they followed your advice, subbing would be a complete waste of money and NO ONE would do it. Sorry, but your ideas are terrible. I mean, a "fair" experience? It's not fair because they have to pay for purple gear? Well, guess what, Subbed players have to pay for purple gear too. We also have to pay for full access to quick bars. If F2Pers refuse to customize their game by spending a few bucks, they don't deserve to play competitively.

 

 

Seriously... if Bioware offered so little value for a sub over F2P, I'd unsub right away.

 

I gota agree. If everything was on par for sub vs f2p i'd cancel as well and play for free.

[Galbatorrix]

Maybe i failed to explain some of my points because i didn't want to elaborate to much on em to avoid making a wall text even tho i still did.

 

But basically yes i said that so F2P can get a "fair" experience (with the system how it is anyways) it would be dividing servers into f2p and subs servers. Subs would have all what they have but if they want to come to pvp/raid or whatever with the F2P crowd they would have to play with their restrictions.

 

what would you be gaining as a sub? like i said free/early access to all the new content not saying that f2p will get it after that week for free but that you'll be playing it before they can even have the option to PAY for it, no queues, free CC's

I mean what else could you want for a sub? an ultimate item to 1shot f2p's. lol

 

 

 

What restrictions? I pay to wear purples, they pay to wear purples. I fail to see my advantage. If they want to be cheapskates and not buy the artifact licence, then they're causing their own disadvantages. Also, again, if all I got as a sub was a weeks early access, I'd unsub in a second. It be cheaper to just wait and buy the content for a one time price than pay $15 per month all of the months that there is no content.

[Danbuterx]

I think F2P players should only be allowed to log in and walk around. No combat! No XP! Nothing!

 

 

RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eliteninja]

What restrictions? I pay to wear purples, they pay to wear purples. I fail to see my advantage. If they want to be cheapskates and not buy the artifact licence, then they're causing their own disadvantages. Also, again, if all I got as a sub was a weeks early access, I'd unsub in a second. It be cheaper to just wait and buy the content for a one time price than pay $15 per month all of the months that there is no content.

 

See this is where were we both should be agreeing, if we put it that way you're paying to use better gear, "inderectly" letting you be better than the persons who haven't payed for that and same goes for the quickbars, now that wouldn't be a problem if there was some sort of restriction that wouldn't let you play against those people wich is why i mentioned something so simple like different servers.

 

im actually surprised that people complained about hide helmet and unify colors not being for f2p since that how it should be PAY for cosmetic changes, New attack animations. Not Unlocking small walls to play against Subs.

 

now one more time, i don't understand what you are not getting about my comment on the subs in my post i said subs should be getting everything the currently have just that since theres almost no new content (story wise) since the *********** 2009 f2p might end up getting almost everything subs currently have (but that would change with time because bioware said they would do updates more regularly). basically level 50 story quests would be the end of F2P and from there on to where bioware decides to keep doing updates F2P should pay for that planet/quests as an expansion.

 

As for FP, WZ, Raids well they should pay for the high level ones most recent ones.

Edited November 19, 2012 by eliteninja

[Kenlonis]

I really can't tell if OP is serious....or delusional.

I subscribed for 6 months, but BW kept pulling some shady things that upset me. So I quit. The game wasn't worth a full subscription.....

And what sort of F2P model do they give us.....

it costs MORE to do F2P in a decent manner for PvP(and it goes for end game raiding too) than it does a subscription.....

You're upset that they can experience the story? haven't you heard everyone complaining that they're are some insane restrictions? Charging new players for sprint at level 1, not enough quick bars....

 

Would have paying for each unlock been a better option? Probably. Because the current system is too EXPENSIVE, and it makes the story experience terrible.

 

The F2P model is bad, but your title is wrong. It's not because it's too free.

 

They should also restrict period use on the Forums for F2P People

[Nimithril]

Personally I just votekick blue-geared players and use companions.

 

Did a BP today in my columi healer today, had Xalek tanking like a pro.

 

Hush, Elitist. No one cares how good you think you are.

[Doomsaga]

No, my friend, they do not HAVE to buy them. Learn to comprehend english -- it will serve you well.

 

Depends on class because i hate to break it to you but not everyone wants to play the same way/class as you. i KNOW its a shock but you will get over it. Learn common sense please.

[Galbatorrix]

See this is where were we both should be agreeing, if we put it that way you're paying to use better gear, "inderectly" letting you be better than the persons who haven't payed for that and same goes for the quickbars, now that wouldn't be a problem if there was some sort of restriction that wouldn't let you play against those people wich is why i mentioned something so simple like different servers.

 

im actually surprised that people complained about hide helmet and unify colors not being for f2p since that how it should be PAY for cosmetic changes, New attack animations. Not Unlocking small walls to play against Subs.

 

now one more time, i don't understand what you are not getting about my comment on the subs in my post i said subs should be getting everything the currently have just that since theres almost no new content (story wise) since the *********** 2009 f2p might end up getting almost everything subs currently have (but that would change with time because bioware said they would do updates more regularly). basically level 50 story quests would be the end of F2P and from there on to where bioware decides to keep doing updates F2P should pay for that planet/quests as an expansion.

 

As for FP, WZ, Raids well they should pay for the high level ones most recent ones.

 

 

I don't see how this is so hard to understand. If a F2P player "might end up getting almost everything subs currently have", then WHY WOULD ANYONE SUB? If I can play the entirety of the 1-50 game with no restrictions, I'd do that instead of paying $15 per month to play it hassle free. You act as thought sub players aren't paying actual real money each month (because god forbid a F2P player have to spend 5-10 bucks out of the gate for a few features that he wants). Subbed players aren't entitled to anything extra over F2Pers (or not much, according to you) while F2P players deserve more than they already have? Without paying a dime? If a F2P player wants to do WZs in greens and blues because he's a cheapskate, he deserves to get slaughtered. The only "wall" there is a few bucks.

 

Lets GIVE F2P players free unlimited WZ (current) and free access to the best gear so they can be competitive with the people paying $15 per month for those things. Yeah.. that makes perfect sense.

[Laconca]

I am new to the game, I am not an F2Per. I have paid for the game and I have a sub going on. I will say this much, I think the object of F2P is to get free players to pay and hop into the game. I have enjoyed the game so far. I played the first 3 levels under the old free 15 level system and I was hooked. I think if they had a little more open like the GTM to these players, yes I can hear it now, F2Pes with purples, but some things need to suck some fish into the boat.

[Eillack]

I honestly think that there should be Chapter unlocks. Or at least just Chapter 3+ unlocks.

[viewtifuldee]

Oh Moses, smell the roses...

[althene]

Words. That's all I think about this post. Edited November 19, 2012 by althene