Groncho Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The kid can't kill a sniper so he asks for a nerf without a solid base same old story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheros Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The kid can't kill a sniper so he asks for a nerf without a solid base same old story Dude you entirely missed the point: It's not so much that they can't be killed. the thing that's so extremely frustrating is how ridiculously out of whack entrench is compared to any other ability on any other AC in the game. AND they got to keep their long range aoe instant mezz while every other class in the game lost their instant, ranged CC. It's not about snipers/gs in particular. It's that NO ranged AC should have ALL the tools that exist in the game. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Dude you entirely missed the point: no, i didn't It's not about snipers/gs in particular. It's that NO ranged AC should have ALL the tools that exist in the game. Period. k gimme a leap, stealth, a spammable slow without resource consumptiom, a 5-6k aoe damage ability every (lets say 20 seconds), and i will ask for a nerf also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Core 2.0 changes which will prove to be problematic. a) Ballistic dampeners is in the first tier of marksmen and is accessible now to all specs. b) Operative passive heal has been added to tier 1 engineering and is now accessible to all specs. c) Damage of all specs was increased significantly. d) Addition of lolroll. e) No spec has any energy management issues now. f) 30 stealth detection at 30 seconds in cover. Edited April 7, 2013 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Core 2.0 changes which will prove to be problematic. a) Ballistic dampeners is in the first tier of marksmen and is accessible now to all specs. b) Operative passive heal has been added to tier 1 engineering and is now accessible to all specs. c) Damage of all specs was increased significantly. d) Addition of lolroll. e) No spec has any energy management issues now. the only problem is the last point and YES is the only issue that could be problematic and should be tunned (have to wait for 2.0 final notes). WE all mentioned that on the PTS, snipers/gs shouldn't be able to spam all the core abilities The lolroll is a fix to the cover nechanics and tbh is not such a great tool The operative passive heals as u call it, is meaningless, in full conqueror u can get 30k health wich means 600 health points per tic : is a non factor self heal as u must stay in cover to receive it Ballistic dumpers is now and almost was a must be for pvp so no changes there The damage has not increased, in fact crit rate was nerfed, if u have a decent PVP tank and coordinated taunts lol at that. To get autocrits (or an increased crit chance) u have to high on the MM/SS tree, and guess what, is white damage. Ppl will figure out how to negate snipers/GS as they figured out how to LOL at smashmonkeys. Edited April 7, 2013 by Groncho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) No, it's not a QQ thread Yes, it is. Edited April 7, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Snipers and Gunslingers: causing melee tears since December 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheros Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 k gimme a leap, stealth, a spammable slow without resource consumptiom, a 5-6k aoe damage ability every (lets say 20 seconds), and i will ask for a nerf also LOL k. I'm not advocating taking everything away, but at the very least a small adjustment to entrench along with reducing flashbang to 10m would be a great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Core 2.0 changes which will prove to be problematic. a) Ballistic dampeners is in the first tier of marksmen and is accessible now to all specs. b) Operative passive heal has been added to tier 1 engineering and is now accessible to all specs. c) Damage of all specs was increased significantly. d) Addition of lolroll. e) No spec has any energy management issues now. f) 30 stealth detection at 30 seconds in cover. I really don't understand the whole stealth detect thing. the hard counter to a sniper is stealth. yeah, you can face tank with watchman, and even he will end up stealthing at some point (presumably). but if stealth is the rock to sniper's scissors, then why in the hell are you giving them something to directly counter that? most decent stealth classes already use blackout when approaching an enemy. the bad ones don't. sigh. I just don't get it. what's the point of having stealth if half the dps you come across have a stealth detect or can't even be knocked down 1/3 of the time? there are plenty of ways to pull a stealthy out of stealth w/o giving another class stealth detect. this is just frustrating. it's like taking instant ranged CC away from the other ranged classes (but not sniper). just...wow. Edited April 7, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim_Grey Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 LOL k. I'm not advocating taking everything away, but at the very least a small adjustment to entrench along with reducing flashbang to 10m would be a great start. I don't get what you think is so all powerful about flashbang. It's breakable CC which doesn't last that long. Any other control a Sniper or Gunslinger has is for up close... since range is your only defense on those, it's pretty balanced. If you've never played one before, that breakable CC is often broken by others, or is really only to buy time while a bunch of people are shooting at you. It's only semi-useful and not the god power you make it out to be. As for Entrench, it's not up all the time and you have to be proactive with it. You know all those complaints that Commandos have for doing DPS (I have one as well, so I know)? It's because they have very few ways to keep melee out of their face. My Gunslinger has more tools to deal with them, but he can still run into issues from melee if he isn't careful, and ranged have it even easier if they want to focus on him. There's no facerolling going on like you're suggesting, and a huge amount of people are telling you in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 its not that flashbang is so powerful, its that no other mez in the game even comes close to touching what it can do. so comparatively, it is massively powerful. the only other AOE mez is warrior/knight, and is melee range and only lasts 6s. merc and sorc mezzes (the other ranged classes) are both single target and have cast times (as of 2.0 sorcs canno talent whirlwind to be instant). it is far and above the best mez in the game. and when sniper is only vulnerable to other ranged class mezzes (stuns have too short range to be useful against them), it creates an even larger perceived disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenWangs Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I thought this thread would be whining about them in 2.0, but crying about them right now? LOS and then wait for the sniper's entrench to be over. Stun, death. You've created a thread solely based on a 1v1 situation which is impractical, but since you want an impractical situation I gave a practical solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I really don't understand the whole stealth detect thing. the hard counter to a sniper is stealth. yeah, you can face tank with watchman, and even he will end up stealthing at some point (presumably). but if stealth is the rock to sniper's scissors, then why in the hell are you giving them something to directly counter that? most decent stealth classes already use blackout when approaching an enemy. the bad ones don't. sigh. I just don't get it. what's the point of having stealth if half the dps you come across have a stealth detect or can't even be knocked down 1/3 of the time? there are plenty of ways to pull a stealthy out of stealth w/o giving another class stealth detect. this is just frustrating. it's like taking instant ranged CC away from the other ranged classes (but not sniper). just...wow. Hello i am a stealther and i like to walk stealthed while in sniper's cone of vision. Suddenly i get detected. Nerf Snipers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neulwen Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Snipers are fine currently, but the problem is that they are getting tons of buffs in 2.0 to such a degree that they then become imber. That is the problem. They will deal more damage (both sustained and burst), have more CC immunity, a roll, stealth detection, better root etc. Edited April 7, 2013 by Neulwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Snipers are fine currently, but the problem is that they are getting tons of buffs in 2.0 to such a degree that they then become imber. That is the problem. They will deal more damage (both sustained and burst), have more CC immunity, a roll, stealth detection, better root etc. what?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Not siding with one side or the other here, as I am a sniper player myself but I do agree with some of the issues brought up. I fricking LOVE playing my sniper, it's the most fun I can have on a ranged class without having a good group. With a good group it's godly. The defensive cooldowns are great, don't get me wrong but it is a class with 3 dps trees, and like maras they get 5 defensive cooldowns if I'm counting them right. Those are necessary, as it is necessary for a mara to have 5, 1-2 more than other classes because they have no 3rd healing or tanking tree. What makes them op is the cover mechanism and the 30m aoe flash bang. Compared to everything else that's in the game it is monumentally op. And I fricking love it, I just wish the other ranged classes were this good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Hello i am a stealther and i like to walk stealthed while in sniper's cone of vision. Suddenly i get detected. Nerf Snipers i can't tell if you're trolling me or not, but if you walk across anyone's face, you're gonna be seen. I don't "see" the need to give everyone a stealth detect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexDecimalUK Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 cant force leap? try playing a lightning sorc or arsenal merc against them! no way you can out DPS them, try to LOS and they will interrupt every cast mostly with CCs or leg shots meaning you cant LOS there follow up. IMO there entrench needs to be shortened and cover alone should not protect from ints. then its a fair fight, i mean my merc doesn't have int protection my sorc only sort of does but not from CCs but when a sniper decides he wants to kill you its leg shot, entrench, sticky bomb, orbital strike, ambush GG. what do they even need to think about? but the other side is yes stealther or dot classes with annihilate them so rock paper scissors attack at your own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerrik Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Snipers are fine currently, but the problem is that they are getting tons of buffs in 2.0 to such a degree that they then become imber. That is the problem. They will deal more damage (both sustained and burst), have more CC immunity, a roll, stealth detection, better root etc. Please post these changes that we are not seeing snipers are getting a stealth detect (nice but not OP, just attack from the sides or behind) a roll (VERY needed considering the movement buffs all classes are getting) and skill tree changes that everone is seeing where are all of these changes you are seeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Please post these changes that we are not seeing snipers are getting a stealth detect (nice but not OP, just attack from the sides or behind) a roll (VERY needed considering the movement buffs all classes are getting) and skill tree changes that everone is seeing where are all of these changes you are seeing well the roll is not really a buff. the mechanic exists on live currently, its the "roll into cover" thing with the little green pictures of where you can take cover in the environment. problem is, that mechanic is crap. the roll is a way for "roll into cover" to actually work, without the terribly buggy environment based cover system we have now. snipers are the best counter for melee. and since the majority of players seem to play melee, and the majority of players are also bad, expect to see a lot more qq about snipers in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim_Grey Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 cant force leap? try playing a lightning sorc or arsenal merc against them! no way you can out DPS them, try to LOS and they will interrupt every cast mostly with CCs or leg shots meaning you cant LOS there follow up. IMO there entrench needs to be shortened and cover alone should not protect from ints. then its a fair fight, i mean my merc doesn't have int protection my sorc only sort of does but not from CCs but when a sniper decides he wants to kill you its leg shot, entrench, sticky bomb, orbital strike, ambush GG. what do they even need to think about? but the other side is yes stealther or dot classes with annihilate them so rock paper scissors attack at your own risk. The problem with picking out out one case where a sniper/gs can do well is you can pick out cases where that isn't going to happen. Anything you noted here is an encouragement to improve Commandos and Sages/Sorcs. The reason GS and Snipers do okay is because they have a decent toolbox to play ranged while the other ranged classes don't have enough. And seriously, Snipes and GS have plenty of counters already. They need to be fixed in one spot, so if they plunk down in the wrong spot or get surrounded, they're in trouble. And with how PVP maps work, there are lots of ways to break LOS or sneak up on them. They don't have much they can do against other ranged classes other than damage them, and another GS or Snipe on the other team can mess them up bad (diversion is a kill to their dps... I do it first thing I can on another GS or sniper). Sure, Flashbang will buy you a temporary reprieve, but only if you want to get a bunch of people off your back. You're still going to want to take out one of them. And yes, they can be tough in one on one, but most classes have a lot of tricks to make them tough 1 vs 1. The only class I've played or played against that has the most issues are Commandos, to be honest. And I still love love my Commando healer, even if he can't do as well as my other characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerako Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Snipers are good where they are. My favorite sniper killer is my guardian but its really not that hard with a vanguard. On my commando I eat them alive...don't even mention stealth classes. Shadows destroy snipers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isislol Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Snipers are good where they are. My favorite sniper killer is my guardian but its really not that hard with a vanguard. On my commando I eat them alive...don't even mention stealth classes. Shadows destroy snipers Good sniper will murder guardians 100% of the time, sentinels got it easier if they have their CDs to close the gap. Same with PT which is pretty much melee AC, good sniper won't die to them. With the 30m aoe mezz and the roll they're getting in 2.0 snipers will be melee killers even more then they are now. Dps OPs/scoundrels needed the roll not the snipers, they already have enough tools vs melee ACs. Edited April 8, 2013 by Isislol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I really don't understand the whole stealth detect thing. the hard counter to a sniper is stealth. yeah, you can face tank with watchman, and even he will end up stealthing at some point (presumably). but if stealth is the rock to sniper's scissors, then why in the hell are you giving them something to directly counter that? most decent stealth classes already use blackout when approaching an enemy. the bad ones don't. sigh. I just don't get it. what's the point of having stealth if half the dps you come across have a stealth detect or can't even be knocked down 1/3 of the time? there are plenty of ways to pull a stealthy out of stealth w/o giving another class stealth detect. this is just frustrating. it's like taking instant ranged CC away from the other ranged classes (but not sniper). just...wow. ^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Original poster is a melee player. Cover immunities are not going anywhere. Stealth detect will not allow a sniper to prevent from being countered by steathers. At least we can make steathers a little less comfortable at delaying node captures. I am so sick of stealth mezz in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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