Rethink these Restrictions Bioware

[ImperialSun]

What about operations and flashpoints? Group play is a HUGE part of any MMO, cutting this out was a mistake IMO.

 

There are a lot of other F2P games that does this better. I know GW2 isn't technically a F2P game but after the one time price you really don't have to pay a dime for anything.

 

Yes and if you drop the same amount of money on SWTOR you would never HAVE to buy anythnig again either?

 

Also, so you are saying you would want the 1-50 core story experience PLUS Ops and FPs for F2P?

 

So what would be the point of paying a sub then? Just for WZs? Yeah sorry, thats just not gonna fly IMO.

 

Driz

[jorill]

What about operations and flashpoints? Group play is a HUGE part of any MMO, cutting this out was a mistake IMO.

 

There are a lot of other F2P games that does this better. I know GW2 isn't technically a F2P game but after the one time price you really don't have to pay a dime for anything.

 

Those shouldnt be free. You should be able to buy them however and have a perm unlock for them per character for the f2p player

[ripster]

I think some of the restrictions (the UI ones) may not accomplish what they want, but at the same time people saying everything else should be free/unlimited are missing the point. F2P is not aimed at people who want to PvP and Raid 24/7. Those people are getting their money's worth at $15 a month. F2P is for people who don't get to log in every day or only play for an hour or so every once in a while. There is a lot to enjoy in this game for those people and they are not going to blow through it in a month. All giving unlimited access to PvP and Raids does is let people who are already content paying $15 a month drop their subs. Brilliant move.

[Crash-X]

People keep using the "nickel and dime" phrase like it's a bad thing, but they forget: THAT'S ALL YOU ARE WORTH TO THIS GAME NOW.

 

You don't want to pay a paltry $15/month (I really do laugh at people who suggest that only rich fat kids have $15/month available) so the only value you have to the business that provides this game, a business that MUST EARN MONEY to STAY in business, is your nickels and dimes. If you aren't willing to pay nickels and dimes, then you really really should go. You can't afford this game and this game certainly can't afford you.

 

As a subscriber, I don't mind that F2P players get access to the main part of the game - the planets and character stories. I wouldn't even mind if they got one extra toolbar. But I see people here suggesting FULL access to warzones and FP's, unify color, hide head slot... I say NO! I pay a SUBSCRIPTION FOR THOSE THINGS.

 

So cough up some nickels and dimes to get the access and convenience (head slot is CONVENIENCE) that you want and keep the game solvent. You are not entitled to anything more.

 

But boy, do people feel entitled.

 

It's not really about entitlement.

 

You are right, people aren't entitled to anything.

 

The problem is there is A LOT of competition out there that offers more for less. This F2P model by comparison is a bit much. Hotbars....really? That has to be a first.

 

Why not give F2P players access to all current warzones, FPs, and OPs? Are they not making any more? Just give them unlimited access to the current so that they can enjoy the game with their friends endlessly and charge for new content that will come out.

 

I think EA needs to understand, the more time a player is willing to spend in any game the more s/he is likely to invest in their character.

 

With these limitations, I don't understand why I should spend time in the game because I'll just hit a brick wall that I have to pay for more time basically.

[ImperialSun]

People keep using the "nickel and dime" phrase like it's a bad thing, but they forget: THAT'S ALL YOU ARE WORTH TO THIS GAME NOW.

 

You don't want to pay a paltry $15/month (I really do laugh at people who suggest that only rich fat kids have $15/month available) so the only value you have to the business that provides this game, a business that MUST EARN MONEY to STAY in business, is your nickels and dimes. If you aren't willing to pay nickels and dimes, then you really really should go. You can't afford this game and this game certainly can't afford you.

 

As a subscriber, I don't mind that F2P players get access to the main part of the game - the planets and character stories. I wouldn't even mind if they got one extra toolbar. But I see people here suggesting FULL access to warzones and FP's, unify color, hide head slot... I say NO! I pay a SUBSCRIPTION FOR THOSE THINGS.

 

So cough up some nickels and dimes to get the access and convenience (head slot is CONVENIENCE) that you want and keep the game solvent. You are not entitled to anything more.

 

But boy, do people feel entitled.

 

I feel exactly the same...

 

Essentially we have many, many people enjoying the F2P "option" as it is but a small and vocal minority wanting to try and bouth mouth / bully BW into giving them the 1-50 experience, plus Ops, FPs and all of the customization options for absolutely nothing.

 

So they get all of the game for free which totoally undermines the sub players value...

 

If you like the game soooooo much then support it! What are we talking to purchase 2 additional toolbars? $3?

 

Driz

[SeanNewBoy]

i think f2p'ers need to be allowed to use but not make custom chat channels.

[LordArtemis]

People keep using the "nickel and dime" phrase like it's a bad thing, but they forget: THAT'S ALL YOU ARE WORTH TO THIS GAME NOW.

 

You don't want to pay a paltry $15/month (I really do laugh at people who suggest that only rich fat kids have $15/month available) so the only value you have to the business that provides this game, a business that MUST EARN MONEY to STAY in business, is your nickels and dimes. If you aren't willing to pay nickels and dimes, then you really really should go. You can't afford this game and this game certainly can't afford you.

 

As a subscriber, I don't mind that F2P players get access to the main part of the game - the planets and character stories. I wouldn't even mind if they got one extra toolbar. But I see people here suggesting FULL access to warzones and FP's, unify color, hide head slot... I say NO! I pay a SUBSCRIPTION FOR THOSE THINGS.

 

So cough up some nickels and dimes to get the access and convenience (head slot is CONVENIENCE) that you want and keep the game solvent. You are not entitled to anything more.

 

But boy, do people feel entitled.

 

I'm not sure I agree.

 

I think the term nickel and dime AND the term entitlement is used a bit too often. The game was and has been light on features and content, expected features for a modern MMO in this market from launch IMO. This was mostly a design intent decision, again IMO, and proved to be very detrimental to the game.

 

The game has quite a bit to prove to the general MMO populace, especially former players. And the market owes nothing to the game. It has to earn its business. That is how the market works. To say thats entitlement is a bit silly...its more accurate, IMO, to say thats the market.

 

Players expect to have the same UI functionality and limited casual aspects they had when they left. I do not see this as unreasonable, though I would restricted most of those items anyway. I just would have made them cheap.

 

They have extended the bonus coins offer through December. This goes a long way toward providing the coin needed to get those items back IMO.

 

The goal is to expand the playerbase and subscriptions, as well as increase CM revenue. The market will determine what is needed to meet that goal. The game has to earn it to get it.

 

It remains to be seen if this is enough...I tend to lean toward the idea that in it's current state it is a good start. Some may disagree.

[Erasimus]

First I'd like to say that the implementation of F2P has been an enormous success in at least one regard. It has given the forum Trolls a new topic to whine about

 

I'm sure there will be adjustments to increase revenue and retain/attract new players. However, I don't think that the current restrictions are all that bad.

 

For returning players that choose to go F2P it will seem harsh. It is always difficult to go from that 60" TV back to a 22" screen. But you can, relatively cheaply, buy the "necessities" you need to level from 1-50 doing the class stories.

 

New players won't feel the pain as much since they have no frame of reference. And even for them $5 or $10 a month in purchased "perks" should be adequate. If they end up really playing a lot then the $15 for a 30 day sub is not that much.

 

Before F2P people were saying that no one would pay anything, they'd just do the 1-50 class quests then quit. With the current restrictions people that get past level 10-20 and really enjoy the experience will probably start spending $ in the Cartel store to improve that experience. I'm sure that is all by design. It is also something to be desired by anyone that wants the game to succeed. After all these $s are what will pay for improvements and new content going forward.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Erasimus

[Crash-X]

Those shouldnt be free. You should be able to buy them however and have a perm unlock for them per character for the f2p player

 

This is a better idea than what they have yes.

 

But anything that is going to slap the player on the hand and tell them to pony up more money to continue playing the game s/he loves is a bit much. It's like the arcade or something.

[ImperialSun]

It's not really about entitlement.

 

You are right, people aren't entitled to anything.

 

The problem is there is A LOT of competition out there that offers more for less. This F2P model by comparison is a bit much. Hotbars....really? That has to be a first.

 

Why not give F2P players access to all current warzones, FPs, and OPs? Are they not making any more? Just give them unlimited access to the current so that they can enjoy the game with their friends endlessly and charge for new content that will come out.

 

I think EA needs to understand, the more time a player is willing to spend in any game the more s/he is likely to invest in their character.

 

With these limitations, I don't understand why I should spend time in the game because I'll just hit a brick wall that I have to pay for more time basically.

 

You seriously think F2P should get access to ALL current WZs, FPs and Ops? As well as the core 1-50 story?

 

Not sure if serious?

 

What then, would be the point in anyone paying a sub?

 

Driz

[xboblee]

hotbars aren't convenience. You need them to play they game. There are more skills than two bars allow currenlty. I would consider convenience items to be those like items to be like quick travel, reducing costs to remove mods, that type of thing.

 

But you dont need them to level from 1 to 50, only for raiding and level 50 pvp

[Crash-X]

You seriously think F2P should get access to ALL current WZs, FPs and Ops? As well as the core 1-50 story?

 

Not sure if serious?

 

What then, would be the point in anyone paying a sub?

 

Driz

 

If Bioware can deliver new content, new FPs, new OPs, New anything they can charge for that. They can charge for as many cosmetics and perks as they want. They need to give some of those for free though, even if it's just one of em.

 

PVP/PVE is a big part of ANY MMO and it is what makes a MMO. They are basically charging everyone for the MMO and giving away the single-player game for free.

[ZeroOneNine]

I love these threads. Please keep making them..... here's a template so that you may continue to make similar threads:

 

"Geez BW these restrictions are soooo baaaad and it costs way too much to remove them... it's almost like it will cost less to subscribe than to go f2p!!!11!"

 

*~poof~* lightbulb.jpg

 

"Oh....wait...yeah... wait...no........ heeeeeyyy now I get it!" <-- this has never actually happend to OP of similar threads

[nriemupah]

You seriously think F2P should get access to ALL current WZs, FPs and Ops? As well as the core 1-50 story?

 

Not sure if serious?

 

What then, would be the point in anyone paying a sub?

 

Driz

 

In such a model subs should get bonus items and content. IE Newest zones subs only (or unrestricted sub only). Sub only races/classes. Bonus XP, the monthly Cartel Coins etc. I see the argument of such a system discouraging subs yet other games have used, and continue to use it.

[Armageddon_X]

I see a lot of points being made by both sides. Not going to read all 11 pages to get exact quotes.

 

There's something missing in all this that "some players don't seem to get. I get that you want the

game to do well. Currently the "heavy" restrictions are going to choke the goose IMHO. Some are

saying that the new F2Ps won't notice the restrictions. I am betting that those sentiments are wrong.

They will notice and they will leave.

 

Basic UI functionality should not be locked away under extortion to get a decent game experience.

I'm sorry Bioware, all your infinite wisdom in gaming is eluding you, you will have to give up at least

one more quickbar. There's no way in hell F2Ps are going to get to 50 with two. Anyone who thinks

otherwise, start your own FREE account today and post to YouTube. I doubt you make it to 30 before

quiting in frustration.

 

That's the key right there...."FRUSTRATION"! Players running into frustration while playing a "game",

something that should be somewhat entertaining, are going to STOP PLAYING. Yea yea, I've heard

the old saying, "some players will leave to be replaced by new players coming in". Guess what, the

internetz is not a vacuum and word will get out and that "churn" of players coming/going will get faster

and a year down the road you're going to be looking at some more server consolidations... not that

the current list is even long enough to allow for it.

 

There's also the problem of "hate" being directed at the F2Ps by a small # of players, both here and

ingame. I've already witnessed it extensively on the first day of F2P, the "shut up or get the hell out"

venom directed at new F2Ps. Those players better realize that the F2Ps are the salvation that will

hopefully revive the hope there will be a SWTOR a year+ down the road. Bioware/EA needs to pay

the bills and if the new players are driven away, it might well be easier for them to cut their losses

and end it. They and the investors can write off the losses over time. Reviving a dead game with the

problems that SWTOR has already had in it's first year.....not really a good option if not unlikely. to happen.

[xboblee]

If Bioware can deliver new content, new FPs, new OPs, New anything they can charge for that. They can charge for as many cosmetics and perks as they want. They need to give some of those for free though, even if it's just one of em.

 

PVP/PVE is a big part of ANY MMO and it is what makes a MMO. They are basically charging everyone for the MMO and giving away the single-player game for free.

 

pve is, but all f2p is the get people in the door and spend money to get them ether off f2p or sub nothing more

[ImperialSun]

If Bioware can deliver new content, new FPs, new OPs, New anything they can charge for that. They can charge for as many cosmetics and perks as they want. They need to give some of those for free though, even if it's just one of em.

 

PVP/PVE is a big part of ANY MMO and it is what makes a MMO. They are basically charging everyone for the MMO and giving away the single-player game for free.

 

So subs just keep on funding the game for F2P, whilst F2P enjoy all the benefits that a sub provides, full access to the 1-50 story, full access to all current WZs, FPs and OPs....and the subs just have to sit there in the hope the they will receive some value out of future content?

 

You are right, PVE and PVP ARE the biggest points about any MMORPG. Therefore, try the game, by all means enjoy the F2P option to the max and if you enjoy the game and want access to the entire MMORPG that is SW:TOR then support it financially?

 

Driz

[Edmund]

I am a returning player, and I guess I'll chime in.

 

The UI limits are terrible. Being restricted to one quickbar destroys the game for a lot of reasons. It makes the game close to unplayable, since you're losing out on a ton of your skills in combat, and honestly, just wrecks the entire feel of the game. Combat feels terrible when you're always aware that you have a hundred other skills that you CAN'T use.

 

And before someone says "Well you're playing for FREE! who cares?!", the thing is, you don't see this in other F2P mmos. DCUO's gotten a ton of money from me purely because I can play it F2P without feeling like the developers hate me.

 

F2P is about providing a fun experience, while dangling the carrot of "This is fun, but it could be BETTER if you buy this or subscribe", DCUO does it wonderfully, SWTOR doesn't. Instead of providing a fun experience that, at it's core, advertises the rest of the game, it's just a gutted mess. There's no "This is fun, but it could be better", it's just "this is the crap you get for not paying. Play it, or don't. We don't care."

 

On the subject of legacies and titles, I'm not sure it really bothers me, but it sure does feel great to come back to the game, and see everything I've done is locked out.

 

And missing out on Unify Colors doesn't really bother me. When I unsubscribed, it was around the time Bioware decided to add the feature back in after removing it for no reason, so I got used to working around not having it, so I guess I can live.

 

On the plus side, the forum emoticons are still amazing, so that's good. They may take our quickbars, but they'll never take away... OUR COOL WOOKIES!!

[xboblee]

I see a lot of points being made by both sides. Not going to read all 11 pages to get exact quotes.

 

There's something missing in all this that "some players don't seem to get. I get that you want the

game to do well. Currently the "heavy" restrictions are going to choke the goose IMHO. Some are

saying that the new F2Ps won't notice the restrictions. I am betting that those sentiments are wrong.

They will notice and they will leave.

 

Basic UI functionality should not be locked away under extortion to get a decent game experience.

I'm sorry Bioware, all your infinite wisdom in gaming is eluding you, you will have to give up at least

one more quickbar. There's no way in hell F2Ps are going to get to 50 with two. Anyone who thinks

otherwise, start your own FREE account today and post to YouTube. I doubt you make it to 30 before

quiting in frustration.

 

That's the key right there...."FRUSTRATION"! Players running into frustration while playing a "game",

something that should be somewhat entertaining, are going to STOP PLAYING. Yea yea, I've heard

the old saying, "some players will leave to be replaced by new players coming in". Guess what, the

internetz is not a vacuum and word will get out and that "churn" of players coming/going will get faster

and a year down the road you're going to be looking at some more server consolidations... not that

the current list is even long enough to allow for it.

 

There's also the problem of "hate" being directed at the F2Ps by a small # of players, both here and

ingame. I've already witnessed it extensively on the first day of F2P, the "shut up or get the hell out"

venom directed at new F2Ps. Those players better realize that the F2Ps are the salvation that will

hopefully revive the hope there will be a SWTOR a year+ down the road. Bioware/EA needs to pay

the bills and if the new players are driven away, it might well be easier for them to cut their losses

and end it. They and the investors can write off the losses over time. Reviving a dead game with the

problems that SWTOR has already had in it's first year.....not really a good option if not unlikely. to happen.

 

The hot bars are not a basic part of the level 1 to 50, you can do it with out them and be fine. The ui is fine. Stop bashing bw on that cause its not big part of the gaem, ether buy them or be a sub enough is enough shesh

[Galbatorrix]

What about operations and flashpoints? Group play is a HUGE part of any MMO, cutting this out was a mistake IMO.

 

There are a lot of other F2P games that does this better. I know GW2 isn't technically a F2P game but after the one time price you really don't have to pay a dime for anything.

 

 

 

FPs you still get. Ops are end game and honestly, if you're serious about end game, you shouldn't be playing F2P anyway.

[nriemupah]

I see a lot of points being made by both sides. Not going to read all 11 pages to get exact quotes.

 

There's something missing in all this that "some players don't seem to get. I get that you want the

game to do well. Currently the "heavy" restrictions are going to choke the goose IMHO. Some are

saying that the new F2Ps won't notice the restrictions. I am betting that those sentiments are wrong.

They will notice and they will leave.

 

Basic UI functionality should not be locked away under extortion to get a decent game experience.

I'm sorry Bioware, all your infinite wisdom in gaming is eluding you, you will have to give up at least

one more quickbar. There's no way in hell F2Ps are going to get to 50 with two. Anyone who thinks

otherwise, start your own FREE account today and post to YouTube. I doubt you make it to 30 before

quiting in frustration.

 

That's the key right there...."FRUSTRATION"! Players running into frustration while playing a "game",

something that should be somewhat entertaining, are going to STOP PLAYING. Yea yea, I've heard

the old saying, "some players will leave to be replaced by new players coming in". Guess what, the

internetz is not a vacuum and word will get out and that "churn" of players coming/going will get faster

and a year down the road you're going to be looking at some more server consolidations... not that

the current list is even long enough to allow for it.

 

There's also the problem of "hate" being directed at the F2Ps by a small # of players, both here and

ingame. I've already witnessed it extensively on the first day of F2P, the "shut up or get the hell out"

venom directed at new F2Ps. Those players better realize that the F2Ps are the salvation that will

hopefully revive the hope there will be a SWTOR a year+ down the road. Bioware/EA needs to pay

the bills and if the new players are driven away, it might well be easier for them to cut their losses

and end it. They and the investors can write off the losses over time. Reviving a dead game with the

problems that SWTOR has already had in it's first year.....not really a good option if not unlikely. to happen.

 

+1 This is essentially the main complaint from subscribers (like me) about this system.

[Galbatorrix]

I am a returning player, and I guess I'll chime in.

 

The UI limits are terrible. Being restricted to one quickbar destroys the game for a lot of reasons. It makes the game close to unplayable, since you're losing out on a ton of your skills in combat, and honestly, just wrecks the entire feel of the game. Combat feels terrible when you're always aware that you have a hundred other skills that you CAN'T use.

 

And before someone says "Well you're playing for FREE! who cares?!", the thing is, you don't see this in other F2P mmos. DCUO's gotten a ton of money from me purely because I can play it F2P without feeling like the developers hate me.

 

F2P is about providing a fun experience, while dangling the carrot of "This is fun, but it could be BETTER if you buy this or subscribe", DCUO does it wonderfully, SWTOR doesn't. Instead of providing a fun experience that, at it's core, advertises the rest of the game, it's just a gutted mess. There's no "This is fun, but it could be better", it's just "this is the crap you get for not paying. Play it, or don't. We don't care."

 

On the subject of legacies and titles, I'm not sure it really bothers me, but it sure does feel great to come back to the game, and see everything I've done is locked out.

 

And missing out on Unify Colors doesn't really bother me. When I unsubscribed, it was around the time Bioware decided to add the feature back in after removing it for no reason, so I got used to working around not having it, so I guess I can live.

 

On the plus side, the forum emoticons are still amazing, so that's good. They may take our quickbars, but they'll never take away... OUR COOL WOOKIES!!

 

 

 

You get TWO bars. All of your necessary combat abilities will fit on two bars even at level 50. If you want the convenience of an extra bar, pay 350 CC and be done with it.

[xboblee]

I am a returning player, and I guess I'll chime in.

 

The UI limits are terrible. Being restricted to one quickbar destroys the game for a lot of reasons. It makes the game close to unplayable, since you're losing out on a ton of your skills in combat, and honestly, just wrecks the entire feel of the game. Combat feels terrible when you're always aware that you have a hundred other skills that you CAN'T use.

 

And before someone says "Well you're playing for FREE! who cares?!", the thing is, you don't see this in other F2P mmos. DCUO's gotten a ton of money from me purely because I can play it F2P without feeling like the developers hate me.

 

F2P is about providing a fun experience, while dangling the carrot of "This is fun, but it could be BETTER if you buy this or subscribe", DCUO does it wonderfully, SWTOR doesn't. Instead of providing a fun experience that, at it's core, advertises the rest of the game, it's just a gutted mess. There's no "This is fun, but it could be better", it's just "this is the crap you get for not paying. Play it, or don't. We don't care."

 

On the subject of legacies and titles, I'm not sure it really bothers me, but it sure does feel great to come back to the game, and see everything I've done is locked out.

 

And missing out on Unify Colors doesn't really bother me. When I unsubscribed, it was around the time Bioware decided to add the feature back in after removing it for no reason, so I got used to working around not having it, so I guess I can live.

 

On the plus side, the forum emoticons are still amazing, so that's good. They may take our quickbars, but they'll never take away... OUR COOL WOOKIES!!

 

You are still forgetting what dcuo do to there subs, if you end your sub you lose all the dlc unless you pay there cash store for the dlc

[xboblee]

You get TWO bars. All of your necessary combat abilities will fit on two bars even at level 50. If you want the convenience of an extra bar, pay 350 CC and be done with it.

 

See some one else plays like me shesh

[Galbatorrix]

I see a lot of points being made by both sides. Not going to read all 11 pages to get exact quotes.

 

There's something missing in all this that "some players don't seem to get. I get that you want the

game to do well. Currently the "heavy" restrictions are going to choke the goose IMHO. Some are

saying that the new F2Ps won't notice the restrictions. I am betting that those sentiments are wrong.

They will notice and they will leave.

 

Basic UI functionality should not be locked away under extortion to get a decent game experience.

I'm sorry Bioware, all your infinite wisdom in gaming is eluding you, you will have to give up at least

one more quickbar. There's no way in hell F2Ps are going to get to 50 with two. Anyone who thinks

otherwise, start your own FREE account today and post to YouTube. I doubt you make it to 30 before

quiting in frustration.

 

That's the key right there...."FRUSTRATION"! Players running into frustration while playing a "game",

something that should be somewhat entertaining, are going to STOP PLAYING. Yea yea, I've heard

the old saying, "some players will leave to be replaced by new players coming in". Guess what, the

internetz is not a vacuum and word will get out and that "churn" of players coming/going will get faster

and a year down the road you're going to be looking at some more server consolidations... not that

the current list is even long enough to allow for it.

 

There's also the problem of "hate" being directed at the F2Ps by a small # of players, both here and

ingame. I've already witnessed it extensively on the first day of F2P, the "shut up or get the hell out"

venom directed at new F2Ps. Those players better realize that the F2Ps are the salvation that will

hopefully revive the hope there will be a SWTOR a year+ down the road. Bioware/EA needs to pay

the bills and if the new players are driven away, it might well be easier for them to cut their losses

and end it. They and the investors can write off the losses over time. Reviving a dead game with the

problems that SWTOR has already had in it's first year.....not really a good option if not unlikely. to happen.

 

 

You realize you can spend 5 bucks, unlock the quickbar and then never have to worry about it again.....right? Or is all of this "frustration" worth the savings?