Ungodlyomen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Many of the complaints you see are from current active subscribers who will remain subscribed despite F2P, myself included. Why are we complaining then since F2P doesn't affect us at all? Because we were hoping it would draw more people to the game and breathe new life into SWTOR. Some of these restrictions are already pushing new--yes NEW, not returning, but NEW--players away. Another person already mentioned it and I more or less already did, too, but you need at least 3 action bars. Sure you can buy them, but we simply don't feel that basic UI elements should be restricted. People whining about warzones, flashpoints, end-game gear, and other things not necessary for the 1-50 grind do just need to get with the program and accept that F2P cannot be the full subscriber experience for free. However it is perfectly reasonable to expect basic UI function. The current model is deliberately set up so that at level 30-40 you realize you have too many abilities that you need to keep in regular rotation and nowhere to put them. A successful F2P model that brings more players to the game is a model that doesn't require you to make a single purchase to enjoy the basic game. The current model will pretty much require you to purchase additional quickslots just to properly level your characters without being totally awful at the game. Many of us SUBSCRIBERS are complaining about the current F2P model because we simply do not feel that it will generate enough interest in the game, or encourage people to play long enough to get a real feel and liking for SWTOR and then spend money and sub. We fear that it will just insult them and push them away. Many people who brought new friends to the game today have already experienced it as their friends said "thanks but no thanks" and left after day 1. We aren't whining because we aren't getting something, most of us are subscribers, I don't think F2P can even post on the forums. We're whining because we don't feel that it will generate money or interest in the game. Dude so perfect Imma copy this! all post u see this in is deticated to u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timarick Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Dude so perfect Imma copy this! all post u see this in is deticated to u I am Duncan Macleod. Born 400 years ago in the Highlands of Scotland. I am Immortal. And I am not alone. Now is the time of the Gathering, where the rage of subscribers, and the pitiful decisions shall unleash the power of trollage. But in the end, there can be only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finelinebob Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ... Some of these restrictions are already pushing new--yes NEW, not returning, but NEW--players away. Another person already mentioned it and I more or less already did, too, but you need at least 3 action bars. Sure you can buy them, but we simply don't feel that basic UI elements should be restricted. People whining about warzones, flashpoints, end-game gear, and other things not necessary for the 1-50 grind do just need to get with the program and accept that F2P cannot be the full subscriber experience for free. However it is perfectly reasonable to expect basic UI function.... I'm one who has been whining about all the whining going on, but I've seen this argument a number of times and I have to give ground here -- what the "basic UI" consists of really is one issue that would be a problem, not just a gripe. Maybe it needed to go live before this issue would truly be noticed ... given the abuse PTS players have taken with it being there, then gone, then there, then gone apparently forever, then back again, it's little wonder no one wants to play there for an extended period of time. If BW didn't abuse the people who want to test the new code for the game, maybe we'd have a more robust test environment and more people would play there. And maybe a broader set of players there would expose issues like this that BW might just chalk up to sour grapes from people who weren't going to re/subscribe anyway. Maybe there is a critical mass of people something this big in terms of game mechanics needed to be exposed to before certain issues came up. So, let's figure out what the real issues with playing the game from a new player's perspective is. Basic UI functionality is not the sort of thing that people pay extra for. Keep hammering away at BW about what really matters on getting new people to subscribe. BW has, contrary to what some have said in the last day, listened to player feedback and they have given in and given us "stuff" to make up for bad decisions (30 days of free game time for staying through the update 1.2: Legacy patch ring a bell?). Given their track record and not the imperfect memories of players crying over what they aren't willing to pay for, I'd like to give BW the benefit of the doubt and expect them to listen to what we have to say that is reasonable. I personally do not care about most of the gripes that former-subscribers have about privileges and perks they have lost and want back for free. Yes, access to all end-game content and unlimited warzones, in a F2P model, are privileges: they are not necessary to experience the core of the game. And these people doing all the whining are not the ones who are going to make a financial difference for EA ... it's the people new to the game who will. So, again, perhaps we can focus on what new players need to experience the core of the game experience so they might enjoy it enough to consider playing for more than a day or a week, maybe even subscribe. Again, I think BW will listen and, if we are justified, they will give in. They have done so in the the short history of this game. Quite frankly, it's better that they put in a more restrictive system than what we might end up with that a less restrictive system ... after all, with all the crying going on now over what people can't do anymore -- and you know people would be crying even if the only restriction was that we wouldn't get any more vanity pets for free -- can you imagine how much worse the crying would be if BW decided it had to remove items F2Pers get a month down the road and put them in the store? As a subscriber, that's one set of banshee wailing I really don't want to hear, the sound of a free perk for F2Pers getting moved to the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laris_Rai Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I think hide helmet should be free to everyone. That's a quality of life element. Not as cosmetic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarazoul Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I know they are a lot of complains about the F2P model in this game. And for the most part, i agree with them. But this is not a thread against BW. So i will first start on a positive note : The Cartel is GREAT! BW did a really good job, and i really think it will generate a lot of income for them. I want this game to continue expanding with new updates, so that's good. Now the bad part. I am a subscriber, so the F2P doesn't really affect me, or my friends are also subs here. But let me say this : If the point of F2P is to bring more players in this game, than this model will most likely fail. Why? Well to be fair... It is a F2P as a single player game. But as an MMO, this is little more than a Demo. The restriction are just too harsh, i don't see any F2P players sticking around after reaching level cap. To me ... This isn't F2P. This is a free single player game that you beat, and once you get there you have to pay to get the mutliplayer feature. Restrictions should be softer. At least, enough for players to DO something. BW should focus their efforts on the cartel to make their income, and the support of loyal players like me and others to subsribe to them monthly. Not by FORCING F2P to either stop playing or pay to enjoy the game after lev 50. Edited November 16, 2012 by sarazoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ungodlyomen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Very true. Limitation are to much. and being prefered really has no benifits worth even coming back for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have to disagree. If the point is to bring in more subscribers, then being f2p shouldn't be so comfortable. This f2p model is more of an extended trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ungodlyomen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I dunno they could drop subs al together and give the store a solid run. Hell there already selling gear why not level 50 toons and endgame gear. Thatll make a profit. Oh wait there probally going to. Prolly mods and enhancement and so on too. Pay to win all the way. why not all the fanboys will back it. Serouisly i just think the leash on free to play s- premuim should be loosened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarazoul Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I have to disagree. If the point is to bring in more subscribers, then being f2p shouldn't be so comfortable. This f2p model is more of an extended trial. Then you are agreeing. I am calling this a demo, which in a way is an extended trial as you say. But let's be honest here. When an MMO goes F2P it's either because it's a good long rung and so the company gives a big hug to the fans by making it free (Exemple TF2) or because it's loosing players fast. It's been less than year for SWTOR. So it's a not a "thank you" gift from BW. It's going F2P because they lost too many subs in just a few months. As much as i still love this game... That is a fact. I doubt their original plan was to make an extended trial. They didn't plan the game to go F2P, not so soon anyway. I think it's safe to assume that the plan IS to bring new players in the game. With the current model, this is unlikely to succeed. That being said, i don't it decrease the sub base prior to 1.5. But i don't see population booming either. Edited November 16, 2012 by sarazoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have to disagree. If the point is to bring in more subscribers, then being f2p shouldn't be so comfortable. This f2p model is more of an extended trial. The trial to level 15 didn't helped to create new subscribers, what makes you think a more horrible game expirence will do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nriemupah Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have to disagree. If the point is to bring in more subscribers, then being f2p shouldn't be so comfortable. This f2p model is more of an extended trial. If no one continues to play after F2P this model is a failure. The complaints are the restrictions, especially for preferred players, are going to lead to people not subbing. If they felt the game wasn't worth $15 before why would creating an unpleasant game environment change that? The only way this F2P model leads to more subs is if new people, who were turned off by the idea of paying $15 a month decide they like it enough to pay $15. It really doesn't make any sense to me. IMO would have been totally better off with less restrictions and more cartel stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 There is a purple unlock (For purple weapons,armor) that is account wide for all your toon's,i admit i was a bit surprised seeing something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarazoul Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) If no one continues to play after F2P this model is a failure. The complaints are the restrictions, especially for preferred players, are going to lead to people not subbing. If they felt the game wasn't worth $15 before why would creating an unpleasant game environment change that? The only way this F2P model leads to more subs is if new people, who were turned off by the idea of paying $15 a month decide they like it enough to pay $15. It really doesn't make any sense to me. IMO would have been totally better off with less restrictions and more cartel stuff. Restriction should be there. They just need to be softer. A correct balance needs to be set. Give enough to keep F2P players in. Don't give to much to motivate a monthly subsription. Right now, restriction are just WAY over the top. It should be balanced that's all. As you said, less restriction + more cartel = Happy customers, more money for BW Edited November 16, 2012 by sarazoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nriemupah Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Oh don't get me wrong I agree. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Unless they go with a GW2 / NWN type store only model (which they seem completely against). But I think the restrictions they chose though create a very poor environment for growing a new fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarazoul Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Monthly subsription are an overused, old fashion, destined to disappear model. Just look at DUST and LoL. Forget subsription fees. Make a store with goodies to buy. Customers see what they are paying for, and you make money. It's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanukk Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) The word people are forgetting is the key.. FREE The idea of free to play is to give people a basic experience but still enjoyable experience of the game and hopefully draw them into spending a few dollars on things to upgrade or to actually get a sub to the game and unlock everything. If they gave away to much there is zero ambition on the side of the FTP players to want to improve their current standing and expand their experience. personally i dont like the FTP model..its starting to create gamers who think they are entitled to things other people fork out money to get. I also play other games that are ftp and although frustrating i understand my position in the food chain. + i think people are judging to quick. The FTP was just released yesterday and they will make small changes i believe as they discover what works and what doesnt.. Edited November 16, 2012 by CrazyCanukk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nriemupah Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Exactly but as the forums show people are saying these free changes aren't enjoyable. Pretty much undermines the entire purpose of the change. Now granted the vocal people are always the complainers and BW / EA will make more money with this system then they were before. The question is, does the income hit the target? I'm betting not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibervang Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 How can you complain when the game is free for you.... come live in the grow-up world. Pay for the game, or deal with it. I think its fine. People can enjoy the game as it is, try out 2 story's. If they want more, they have to pay for it... I have played DC Universe Online, and i never complained about the rescrictions to a FREE GAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horded Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 i agree with it is way to restricted. I bounced down to the preferred status due to work not allowing my gaming style and was surprised how little I got to keep at that status level. I paid for the game for a good year and put up with the lack of content for the last 6 months... and this is all I got?? I keep finding it hard to justify why anyone would pay for the game let alone stick to the restrictive F2P model. Particularly when there are so many F2P models out there that show how it should be done. It is way to harsh and i know people were saying that during the testing of it, but in true fashion it was just pushed out. Go figure more backlash. This is not going to go well yet again. Small updates and many restrictions is not a winning business model.. You want people to get a taste of something and come back for more. Not get them so frustrated that they give up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nriemupah Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 For the record I'm a subscriber. So criticizing me for "not paying for the game" is absolutely pointless. I'm merely voicing a concern about the long term viability of their "subscription solution." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ungodlyomen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 How can you complain when the game is free for you.... come live in the grow-up world. Pay for the game, or deal with it. I think its fine. People can enjoy the game as it is, try out 2 story's. If they want more, they have to pay for it... I have played DC Universe Online, and i never complained about the rescrictions to a FREE GAME. Sure sit back and let people get shafted thats fair. Why not . Not me. I want people to come play have fun and sub. Not Log in see the restriction and go to another game. People like you arent seeing the big picture. More people = shorter ques. More people to do instances heroics and wzs. The goal is to get new and old players to come back. Not to drive them away with a nickle and dime scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphandor Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have to disagree. If the point is to bring in more subscribers, then being f2p shouldn't be so comfortable. This f2p model is more of an extended trial. I think the F2P model should be a bit heavy and push people to want to go the subscription route. If it didn't then I am sure a lot of people who do sub right now would drop to F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labradoraki Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 since its obviously closer to pay to compete(epics herp derp) than free ro play. people here come with hopes that the game will be f2p cashop and not an overly limited p2w. and hopes gt crushed people ragequit call it a free extended trial.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 since its obviously closer to pay to compete(epics herp derp) than free ro play. people here come with hopes that the game will be f2p cashop and not an overly limited p2w. and hopes gt crushed people ragequit call it a free extended trial.. P2W lol... Obvious troll is obvious... Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 It is f2p, like every f2p you still have to pay to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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