Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Nope: No they are making up "percentages" and spinning. Look it's simple. Answer this question: If YOU are NOT WILLING to do what is REQUIRED why should YOU be ENTITLED to the REWARD? This question can be answered with regards to HK-51 only or if you feel inclined for extra credit please wax on poetically about how you should be entitled to have everything in life with no effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Tony, you have increased movement, camouflouge, and 4 seconds of invulnerability. You're telling me in 3 tries, you can't get anywhere even -near- the vendor? A Powertech has all that? Since when? ...And do I know you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Most if not ALL of the QQers in this thread can't seem to comprehend this FACT. Be careful of stating people are complaining. They are most likely raising a point which is not complaining. It is one thing to bring up a point to find a better solution than just to complain. Some of us in this thread rarely complain so maybe people answering these threads needs to comprehend that Fact as well. YOu can easy find out who complains just for the sake of complaining by look at their post history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiJuanShenobi Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Man up and deal with it. God forbid it doesn't go exactly how you want it to. I PVP my butt off, the last thing I wanna do is go into flash points for this but I accept its part of the deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Either way is actually moot. It can be in the PVP area or outside it. Why even argue back and forth in the first place? I understand the argument against putting it there (though I may not agree with it), but where is the argument against moving it out? Arguing you are not forced to do it is obvious, certainly factual, but doesn't really apply here. The argument is actually this....should it be there or not. And why. The folks that are against it indicate it is forcing them to PVP....arguable certainly. What is the argument FOR KEEPING IT THERE? This is what is missing. I would like to here from the PVP crowd as to why, if it is the case, they feel it should remain right where it is. Is the argument being made that folks that do not normally engage or participate in PVP should be exposed to PVP or the possibility of such for this particular reward? The answer to that question will certainly illuminate intent, if any, on the PVP communities part in this respect. Edited November 16, 2012 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelAlkaiser Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 No, but in your sig it says jedi sentinel. If you're a powertech, why do you have a kickass lightsaber ascii with text that says sentinel? MIND BOGGLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Man up and deal with it. God forbid it doesn't go exactly how you want it to. I PVP my butt off, the last thing I wanna do is go into flash points for this but I accept its part of the deal... Ok that is you, I on the the other hand raid and fp. You woman up and dop fp and raids all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FulkerS Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Since the stated premise does support the proposed conclusion in that respect, I contend that you may need to touch up on how exactly a strawman argument would be defined. At the very least it would be best to understand the argument instead of judging it a failure based on a lack of intuition for it's intent. The stated premise supports the conclusion because the original argument has been changed to support it. You're creating the illusion of having refuted the argument by replacing it with a similar yet different proposition without ever refuting the original position Argument: HK is optional, you don't have to get him You: Pvpers would complain if they had to raid to get vital pvp gear so we shouldn't have to pvp to get vital pve gear. You will notice that optional has become vital and you have changed the original argument to fit your conclusion. Edited November 16, 2012 by FulkerS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Either way is actually moot. It can be in the PVP or outside it. Why even argue back and forth in the first place? I understand the argument against putting it there (though I may not agree with it), but where is the argument against moving it out? Arguing you are not forced to do it is obvious, certainly factual, but doesn't really apply here. The argument is actually this....should it be there or not. And why. The folks that are against it indicate it is forcing them to PVP....arguable certainly. What is the argument FOR KEEPING IT THERE? This is what is missing. I would like to here from the PVP crowd as to why, if it is the case, they feel it should remain right where it is. The answer to that question will certainly illuminate intent, if any, on the PVP communities part in this respect. That is a valid question. I would like to know that as well. Edited November 16, 2012 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 That seems pretty dismissive. Would you be against them moving it out of the PVP area? Of course not. The point is that there's a very loud, vocal minority that only want to play the game they want to play it and anything they want they deserve to get it the way the played. What if there was a very loud and vocal minority that kept yelling that they play this game by exploring and that's it. But then they complain that they can't get to max level or the best gear or any of their companions unless they do other things besides explore. Are they entitled to all the things in this game simply because they want to play the game they want to play it? No. As someone at Blizzard said about WoW, "Paying to play the game doesn't inherently entitle you to get what you want the way you want. We take player feedback very seriously, but this isn't design by democracy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Either way is actually moot. It can be in the PVP or outside it. Why even argue back and forth in the first place? I understand the argument against putting it there (though I may not agree with it), but where is the argument against moving it out? Arguing you are not forced to do it is obvious, certainly factual, but doesn't really apply here. The argument is actually this....should it be there or not. And why. The folks that are against it indicate it is forcing them to PVP....arguable certainly. What is the argument FOR KEEPING IT THERE? This is what is missing. I would like to here from the PVP crowd as to why, if it is the case, they feel it should remain right where it is. The answer to that question will certainly illuminate intent, if any, on the PVP communities part in this respect. It's simple. Part of the vocal community that wants it kept there actually does want to grief people for lulz. They argue against moving it for dozens of other reasons to cover up that fact. Part of them already managed to do it and will feel invalidated if it does get moved, because the effort they put into it will be rendered meaningless. These are the ones who most frequently say, "I did it so you can do it too." And the rest just don't want other people to have nice things. Can't help you on that last one. Folks are just weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) ... What is the argument FOR KEEPING IT THERE? ... I'll take a stab at this (and this coming from a dedicated PvE player) The HK-51 quest crosses all parts of the game (Republic, Imperial, HM FP, PvP, Level 50 daily areas) to complete. The designers of the quest wanted someone to cross every area of the game to get it. Edited November 16, 2012 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 No, but in your sig it says jedi sentinel. If you're a powertech, why do you have a kickass lightsaber ascii with text that says sentinel? MIND BOGGLED Oh. That. An artifact from when I was beta testing and campaigning for Jedi Sentinel to be it's own class. Never bothered to change it. Probably because all the guns I tried to make looked like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Be careful of stating people are complaining. They are most likely raising a point which is not complaining. It is one thing to bring up a point to find a better solution than just to complain. Some of us in this thread rarely complain so maybe people answering these threads needs to comprehend that Fact as well. YOu can easy find out who complains just for the sake of complaining by look at their post history. The same people when offered a work around still complain. Because they still don't LIKE the work around. That is complaining. It is complaining to demand that things be done YOUR way and you will not be happy until it is done YOUR way. While you may not fall directly into this camp there are many that do. Again, viable alternatives have been presented. I will give you another viable option. Wait it out. Wait a couple of months. Go do it after all the "shiny" has worn off. I find it hard to believe that there are going to be people sitting in the OLD from now until lthe end of the game waiting to gank people trying to get that one part for their HK-51. So PATIENCE is also an option. ((I like your sig (the comment in red))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'm sorry, please name me 1 single STORY QUEST that requires PvP other than HK-51? STORY quest... not one you get from fleet computer I love you dismiss fleet computers as not part of the story. Talk about ignoring some stuff in this game just to try to win an argument. Still, doesn't matter than any other story quest doesn't require some PvP. This one does. Therefore this one doesn't fall into your scope of "all PvE quests"... cuz this one isn't just a PvE quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I completed all but The Outlaw's Den on my BH. I was curious to see how the quest ran and so I went and completed what I could. Now, I sit with no HK because I will not go into a pvp area. Yes, I am irritated but it's so Biofail-like to do something like they did. They even waited until the time for monthly subs to pop so they could get another month of revenue from people when they saw new issues and old ones not fixed.That is why between the DC bugs and other irritating things, this game is headed down the fail trail. I am hopping on one of the wagons as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The same people when offered a work around still complain. Because they still don't LIKE the work around. That is complaining. It is complaining to demand that things be done YOUR way and you will not be happy until it is done YOUR way. While you may not fall directly into this camp there are many that do. Again, viable alternatives have been presented. I will give you another viable option. Wait it out. Wait a couple of months. Go do it after all the "shiny" has worn off. I find it hard to believe that there are going to be people sitting in the OLD from now until lthe end of the game waiting to gank people trying to get that one part for their HK-51. So PATIENCE is also an option. ((I like your sig (the comment in red))) But why should I have to wait a few months for the dlc I pay for every month? That is not fair one bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 As someone at Blizzard said about WoW, "Paying to play the game doesn't inherently entitle you to get what you want the way you want. We take player feedback very seriously, but this isn't design by democracy." ^QFE. Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 But why should I have to wait a few months for the dlc I pay for every month? That is not fair one bit I gave you another option. LIFE is not fair. Get used to it or you wake up disapointed everyday for the rest of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The stated premise supports the conclusion because the original argument has been changed to support it. You're creating the illusion of having refuted the argument by replacing it with a similar yet different proposition without ever refuting the original position Argument: HK is optional, you don't have to get him You: Pvpers would complain if they had to raid to get vital pvp gear so we shouldn't have to pvp to get vital pve gear. You will notice that optional has become vital and you have changed the original argument to fit your conclusion. Again you are either unfamiliar with the definition of strawman, or fail to grasp the intended meaning of the comparison. It is perceived as vital. Naturally neither is vital. HK is optional, the piece of armor is optional. But regardless of that I think it would be likely that the PVP community would complain that a piece of armor that they PERCEIVE as vital would be located in a Flashpoint or Operation. The argument against that would be that it is optional I would expect. The parallel is obvious. I contend it is likely the PVP community would complain if a piece of their gear was placed into a Flashpoint or Operation. The point was to ask how they would feel if that was the case to draw parallels to how PVE players seem to feel at the moment. Now that I have explained it for you hopefully you will understand the premise and see that it is perhaps arguable but certainly not a strawman...unless you can prove that PVP players would have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Again you are either unfamiliar with the definition of strawman, or fail to grasp the intended meaning of the comparison. It is perceived as vital. Naturally neither is vital. HK is optional, the piece of armor is optional. But regardless of that I think it would be likely that the PVP community would complain that a piece of armor that they PERCEIVE as vital would be located in a Flashpoint or Operation. The argument against that would be that it is optional I would expect. The parallel is obvious. I contend it is likely the PVP community would complain if a piece of their gear was placed into a Flashpoint or Operation. The point was to ask how they would feel if that was the case to draw parallels to how PVE players seem to feel at the moment. Now that I have explained it for you hopefully you will understand the premise and see that it is perhaps arguable but certainly not a strawman...unless you can prove that PVP players would have no problem with that. See now answer this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Well now, to be fair I didnt want to hear why PVE players think PVP players want it to remain where it is, if that is even the case. I would like to hear from the PVP players...would you be against the idea of moving it to a PVE area instead and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The same people when offered a work around still complain. Because they still don't LIKE the work around. Still waiting for information on this workaround, btw. I will give you another viable option. Wait it out. Wait a couple of months. Go do it after all the "shiny" has worn off. I find it hard to believe that there are going to be people sitting in the OLD from now until lthe end of the game waiting to gank people trying to get that one part for their HK-51. So PATIENCE is also an option. ^Oh... wait... you mean stuff like this? Nope: Behold the troll's favorite response to this complaint. Bioware? Take note here please. The proposed solution by your community is for me to not play your game right now. Are we starting to see the problem yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ^That You can get griefed w/out being flagged for PvP. Someone can follow you around and keep tagging mobs you were going after, thus preventing you from completing quests. Are you flagged for PvP? No. Are they griefing you? Yes. Ever had someone take your quest item as you were fighting the mob guarding it? Got mad right? Bet you did. Congrats... you got griefed w/out PvP involved. So griefing isn't just about PvP. And that exists in this game... so you deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The same people when offered a work around still complain. Because they still don't LIKE the work around. That is complaining. It is complaining to demand that things be done YOUR way and you will not be happy until it is done YOUR way. While you may not fall directly into this camp there are many that do. Again, viable alternatives have been presented. I will give you another viable option. Wait it out. Wait a couple of months. Go do it after all the "shiny" has worn off. I find it hard to believe that there are going to be people sitting in the OLD from now until lthe end of the game waiting to gank people trying to get that one part for their HK-51. So PATIENCE is also an option. ((I like your sig (the comment in red))) (Thank you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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